Crucible isn't a creature and doesn't kill creatures, so it's not as relevant as you might think
I will be playing in a sanctioned event (and finally get a chance to touch my cards) tomorrow after a 3 week hiatus because of exams. Will be playing DnT. Then I'm off to a whole month of vacation. So I got to win it!
Will post results, the list will most likely be conservative and won't differ too much from my previous lists.
I hit the big city card shop yesterday, I played against Reanimator, Esperblade and the Mirror Death and Taxes. Ok, not so interesting so far, we all get to play against other decks...! What we did do that was interesting though was play new Legend rules. I played the lands previously listed. Also met two guys who had just taken up the deck, which was also pretty cool.
The Flagstone fetch worked every time, I got Mistveil as expected. The GY interaction was of no consequence against reanimator but only one post sideboard game so not enough data to put a cross through them. In the mirror, my opponent had Flagstones also and I several times Wasted his on upkeep to see what would happen. It wasn't a bad tax but if I wasn't experimenting I would not have wasted the Wastes this way.
Mistveil came out in almost all nine games off the fetch with only one drawn and therefore a tapped land into play. They never recycled anything simply because I didn't need to. I do still expect them to be helpful.
Horizon Canopy was actually really good, I cracked them in almost all games and they did deliver photon torpedoes on several occasions, so I am back on with those.
Karakas becoming a White Lotus Petal was cool, this is possibly the best outcome of the Legend Rule. Having a Batterskull and Karakus in hand and four lands including Karakus on the battlefield was no longer a frustration.
The mirror was a grindfest that will go to time in any future tournament. Managara lock gone, Thalia and Thalia making a 3 cost StP... and Jitte becoming a race. Revoke it. In fact Revoker was possibly the single most powerful card in the match-up - you have a Vial and I don't - revoke it! your Mom revoke that and so on. I was so fearful of Jitte that I had two Revokers on it at the same time. This was the game that Horizon Canopy actually had massive form, just card advantage was hugely important as was creature removal like Gut Shot.
Still talking about the mirror, I also think other equipment is important in the SB not the second Jitte. SoLaS is an obvious and getting creatures back from the GY was often helpful but not as much as you would think given they are often exiled. SoFaI with card draw may be the bigger of the two here. Not sure, need more testing. I also think Disenchant over Leonin is preferable, having a Jitte come back is a constant concern, better to have it out than waiting on the battlefield for an StP. I wonder if Jitte becomes the DnT hate sideboard card? Sure, it no longer explodes an opposing Jitte but it definitely annihilates us and an opposing Karakus is also rude.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
I found that Im not much of a fan of Aven Mindcensor. What is everyones opinion on main deck Ethersworn Canonist?
I really liked that idea a few months ago when the meta game was basically Cascade midrange and combo. Now, I think it's really more of a hedge. Mindcensor just having flash and flying is pretty sweet. But Canonist an be a very impactful card in several MUs.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I found that Im not much of a fan of Aven Mindcensor. What is everyones opinion on main deck Ethersworn Canonist?
I swear by my Mindcensors. They are almost never dead. Combo wants to tutor, and almost everyone wants to fetch. Canonist is a darling, but she's dead more often. I tried them in the MD with Censors in the board, and it was a bust. Never again.
Note that tipping a Vial with 3 counters when the opponent is holding uncracked fetches, unless they fetch in response to the vial activation, they will be constrained by the bird wizard. They can't make the fetch unrestricted once the Vial has resolved. So although the bird does have flash, I often find myself tipping the vial for him. He is also a great creature to bluff with.
...
Lodestone Golem. Part of my deck building process involves playing with pretty much every possible card, and this fits the bill. Has anyone else rolled with this thing?
I've had problems with Lodestone Golem coming down early enough for it to matter. While its Thalia's big brother, it simply doesn't come into play early enough to matter without acceleration (Sol Lands).
Lodestone Golem. Part of my deck building process involves playing with pretty much every possible card, and this fits the bill. Has anyone else rolled with this thing?
I would probably test Glowrider before Lodestone Golem since the tax would be more asymmetrical.
I feel like I really want taxes that beat down, though. Glowrider has all the combat ability of a glowstick-waving raver, 3 mana for a 2/1 isn't exactly going to cut it. It compares very unfavorably to Thalia. Lodestone Golem, though, that's a beater! Hitting for 5 damage with a 4 mana investment, that will trade with a Goyf most of the time. Glowrider can't even deal with a Deathrite Shaman on his own.
I'll test him out, probably in the 'beatstick' slots currently occupied by Mirran Crusader. My hope is to get him off of a Vial, emphasizing not so much how quickly he can be deployed, but his synergy with other tax effects I'll already have running, like a Wasteland I already played, an active Port, or a Thalia that has somehow survived.
With further regard to the lands with the new legend rule, Flagstones has been nothing but fantastic thus far. I've come up with only one extremely corner case scenario where double flagstones was bad, but honestly, it was due to a poor keep on my part to begin with. I'm definitely going to have to try Jungian's idea of Mistveil Plains, seems incredibly useful when it's good and not too heavy of a downside. Of course, my shop is infested with people who love using their graveyard so a nice fetchable answer to that in the maindeck seems sweet.
As far as lodestone golem goes, seems useful, beats hard and taxes well. Unfortunately, seems more like a "win-more" type of card- when we're ahead the extra tax is backbreaking, but when behind it may not be enough while also hurting our own chances. Given the ideal of having good topdecks all the time, this may not really fit the overall philosophy of the deck's construction.
Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
I'm reall curious to see if this plan catches on. It seems a little too "cutesy" to me. Using Legend lands to fetch a nonbasic Plains to possibly bring back equipment. Part of me always wants to KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) but I do like having options.
Namrufmot, that is deck building. It's my favorite part of the game. Only thing is, we are running very low on basics at that point. I'm not concerned about dragon Stompy per se, but there are a number of benefits to having a high percentage of basics in your land base beyond Blood Moon. And also, fewer moving parts in general means harder to disrupt. Pecking at complicated decks is what we do to others. It may just be minutia. But we are talking about a tiny, occasional advantage at the expense of complicating the land supply considerably.
Again, small detail, but it is bad with Rest in Peace and Leonin Arbiter while being sensible with Cataclysm. I am leaning to one Flagstones and no Mistveils.
One last thing. With the new Legend Rule, if I am piloting Sneak Attack, I want Blood Moon in my side board.
One last thing. With the new Legend Rule, if I am piloting Sneak Attack, I want Blood Moon in my side board.
I love that because Flickerwisp in hand still = a bad time for them. Two, or maybe three times I've faced down a SnT with Blood Moon in play. Just choose Karakas, bounce the Blood Moon, then bounce Emmy. They almost never know what hit 'em.
It isn't the Mistveil that is the big concern, it's the Flagstones and their requirement to hit the GY. We currently don't rely on that zone and I think this is a big strength. If you pull Flagstones out of the equation, Mistveil is not worth the admission price.
I don't see the point in a single Flagstones, it provides no more advantage post rule than it does today and no one seems to run it. The only benefit will come off multiples and this is no advantage over simply running plains if a) you are not running Cataclysm (and this is becoming a debated card) b) if it doesn't fetch anything but a basic plains. If you are going to run them, you need to run at least two by dint of the fact that if there was an advantage in running one we would be doing it already.
To summarise the flagstone debate:
Pros
Works with cataclysm
Wasteland bait
Lotus petal plains(?)
Fetch a plains subtype eg Mistveil if this is a goal pack 4 flagstones.
Provides access to an, as yet unexploited, shuffle
Synergy with Dustbowl - Frenadol
Cons
Cutsie
Relies on the GY zone, the only cards to do that
Non basic land subject to hate
Dunno, will need to test but I am please with the Karakus Petal outcome.
Opponent has an aven mindcensor in play.
Opponent decides now would be a good time to stifle.
Opponent needs food for their Deathrite Shaman
You need mana and it gets wastelanded on your upkeep.
I don't know, I like Flagstones. They can get awkward with Rest in Peace, and RIP is a great card, but Relic + Extraction + Grunt also controls graveyards. Flagstones have a cost, sure, but Stifle vs. Flagstones isn't as bad as Stifle vs. fetch, because fetches don't tap for mana by themselves. Likewise the Wasteland on upkeep plan: the tempo could matter, but it's more likely that Karakas, Cavern, or Port will be my opponent's target, as that move will leave me with a more lasting disadvantage.
Blood Moon doesn't change super types either, so I think a pair of Stones still blow each other up under the Moon.
For the record, I think Cataclysm is bonkers. It punishes people for playing around the deck's main cards: against Thalia + Port by putting out a ton of creatures and/or lands and/or walkers. Flagstones lets me keep a Port on the board for my oppoonent's only land, as I won't have to deal with color troubles once my juicy Flagstonea hit the bin.
Still, I wouldn't run the Stones if I weren't using Dust Bowl. I haven't persuaded myself that Crucible of Worlds is a bad card in the sideboard, either, for those tricky long games. I know Miracles is supposed to be a pretty good matchup for DnT, but I've lost enough to pack a little extra for them.
My testing indicated that Lodestone Golem vs Mirran Crusader wasn't a fair fight. Crusader wins matches by himself. Lodestone doesn't have the same impact at all, and forces me to take my Vial past 3. I like it on 3. Vial -> Flickerwisp is an out to a lot of situations, like that nasty Blood Moon that won't let my Karakas go to town on an Emrakul.
I will be playing in a sanctioned event (and finally get a chance to touch my cards) tomorrow after a 3 week hiatus because of exams. Will be playing DnT. Then I'm off to a whole month of vacation. So I got to win it!
Will post results, the list will most likely be conservative and won't differ too much from my previous lists.
The Flagstone fetch worked every time, I got Mistveil as expected. The GY interaction was of no consequence against reanimator but only one post sideboard game so not enough data to put a cross through them. In the mirror, my opponent had Flagstones also and I several times Wasted his on upkeep to see what would happen. It wasn't a bad tax but if I wasn't experimenting I would not have wasted the Wastes this way.
Mistveil came out in almost all nine games off the fetch with only one drawn and therefore a tapped land into play. They never recycled anything simply because I didn't need to. I do still expect them to be helpful.
Horizon Canopy was actually really good, I cracked them in almost all games and they did deliver photon torpedoes on several occasions, so I am back on with those.
Karakas becoming a White Lotus Petal was cool, this is possibly the best outcome of the Legend Rule. Having a Batterskull and Karakus in hand and four lands including Karakus on the battlefield was no longer a frustration.
The mirror was a grindfest that will go to time in any future tournament. Managara lock gone, Thalia and Thalia making a 3 cost StP... and Jitte becoming a race. Revoke it. In fact Revoker was possibly the single most powerful card in the match-up - you have a Vial and I don't - revoke it! your Mom revoke that and so on. I was so fearful of Jitte that I had two Revokers on it at the same time. This was the game that Horizon Canopy actually had massive form, just card advantage was hugely important as was creature removal like Gut Shot.
Still talking about the mirror, I also think other equipment is important in the SB not the second Jitte. SoLaS is an obvious and getting creatures back from the GY was often helpful but not as much as you would think given they are often exiled. SoFaI with card draw may be the bigger of the two here. Not sure, need more testing. I also think Disenchant over Leonin is preferable, having a Jitte come back is a constant concern, better to have it out than waiting on the battlefield for an StP. I wonder if Jitte becomes the DnT hate sideboard card? Sure, it no longer explodes an opposing Jitte but it definitely annihilates us and an opposing Karakus is also rude.
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
"Death & Taxes"
Legacy:
"Death & Taxes"
I really liked that idea a few months ago when the meta game was basically Cascade midrange and combo. Now, I think it's really more of a hedge. Mindcensor just having flash and flying is pretty sweet. But Canonist an be a very impactful card in several MUs.
I swear by my Mindcensors. They are almost never dead. Combo wants to tutor, and almost everyone wants to fetch. Canonist is a darling, but she's dead more often. I tried them in the MD with Censors in the board, and it was a bust. Never again.
Note that tipping a Vial with 3 counters when the opponent is holding uncracked fetches, unless they fetch in response to the vial activation, they will be constrained by the bird wizard. They can't make the fetch unrestricted once the Vial has resolved. So although the bird does have flash, I often find myself tipping the vial for him. He is also a great creature to bluff with.
...
Lodestone Golem. Part of my deck building process involves playing with pretty much every possible card, and this fits the bill. Has anyone else rolled with this thing?
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I would probably test Glowrider before Lodestone Golem since the tax would be more asymmetrical.
I'll test him out, probably in the 'beatstick' slots currently occupied by Mirran Crusader. My hope is to get him off of a Vial, emphasizing not so much how quickly he can be deployed, but his synergy with other tax effects I'll already have running, like a Wasteland I already played, an active Port, or a Thalia that has somehow survived.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
As far as lodestone golem goes, seems useful, beats hard and taxes well. Unfortunately, seems more like a "win-more" type of card- when we're ahead the extra tax is backbreaking, but when behind it may not be enough while also hurting our own chances. Given the ideal of having good topdecks all the time, this may not really fit the overall philosophy of the deck's construction.
Here it is if you want to read it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ytZr42ODvLQRrEcxWBw1fEUBLrNW3jpIX_d1Nc6-Tc/edit?usp=sharing
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
Nice work, and I think you really added some great stuff since the draft version. Best of luck in the contest!
Hopefully I'll see some of you (Bsent?) at the open tomorrow rocking D&T.
That.
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I'm reall curious to see if this plan catches on. It seems a little too "cutesy" to me. Using Legend lands to fetch a nonbasic Plains to possibly bring back equipment. Part of me always wants to KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) but I do like having options.
Again, small detail, but it is bad with Rest in Peace and Leonin Arbiter while being sensible with Cataclysm. I am leaning to one Flagstones and no Mistveils.
One last thing. With the new Legend Rule, if I am piloting Sneak Attack, I want Blood Moon in my side board.
I love that because Flickerwisp in hand still = a bad time for them. Two, or maybe three times I've faced down a SnT with Blood Moon in play. Just choose Karakas, bounce the Blood Moon, then bounce Emmy. They almost never know what hit 'em.
I don't see the point in a single Flagstones, it provides no more advantage post rule than it does today and no one seems to run it. The only benefit will come off multiples and this is no advantage over simply running plains if a) you are not running Cataclysm (and this is becoming a debated card) b) if it doesn't fetch anything but a basic plains. If you are going to run them, you need to run at least two by dint of the fact that if there was an advantage in running one we would be doing it already.
To summarise the flagstone debate:
Pros
Works with cataclysm
Wasteland bait
Lotus petal plains(?)
Fetch a plains subtype eg Mistveil if this is a goal pack 4 flagstones.
Provides access to an, as yet unexploited, shuffle
Synergy with Dustbowl - Frenadol
Cons
Cutsie
Relies on the GY zone, the only cards to do that
Non basic land subject to hate
Dunno, will need to test but I am please with the Karakus Petal outcome.
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
Opponent decides now would be a good time to stifle.
Opponent needs food for their Deathrite Shaman
You need mana and it gets wastelanded on your upkeep.
You forgot these.
Blood Moon doesn't change super types either, so I think a pair of Stones still blow each other up under the Moon.
For the record, I think Cataclysm is bonkers. It punishes people for playing around the deck's main cards: against Thalia + Port by putting out a ton of creatures and/or lands and/or walkers. Flagstones lets me keep a Port on the board for my oppoonent's only land, as I won't have to deal with color troubles once my juicy Flagstonea hit the bin.
Still, I wouldn't run the Stones if I weren't using Dust Bowl. I haven't persuaded myself that Crucible of Worlds is a bad card in the sideboard, either, for those tricky long games. I know Miracles is supposed to be a pretty good matchup for DnT, but I've lost enough to pack a little extra for them.
My testing indicated that Lodestone Golem vs Mirran Crusader wasn't a fair fight. Crusader wins matches by himself. Lodestone doesn't have the same impact at all, and forces me to take my Vial past 3. I like it on 3. Vial -> Flickerwisp is an out to a lot of situations, like that nasty Blood Moon that won't let my Karakas go to town on an Emrakul.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730