Overseer, it has been a real chore figuring out how to fit the 65-ish best cards in a 60 card deck since Thalia got printed, but it is a good kind of labor.
I said it a page or so back. Get Thalia and play her. Whatever creature you take out is the right call. She is that good.
I have a Grunt, Avenger, and Revoker out right now. I have vassalated between 2 and 3 Grunts in the main for years. The Revoker down to three was only a bit harder. But the Avenger at three feels dirty. You also have to be careful playing 2 and 3-ofs in a deck with so little library manipulation. You get real consistency issues like that. With the legends it makes sense, but all of the recent cuts simply can not be permanent. I am waiting to see where the format goes to figure out which creature to completely cut so that the deck makes sense again. But it has already been longer than I figured, and I am not close to an opinion on the matter.
I really need to play Thalia, but the deck preforms so good I really don't mis her (and I see combo as an acceptable autoloss...)
Thing is, Thalia helps practically any matchup, not just combo. Unlike Grunt or Revoker, who shine is certain matchups but suck in others, Thalia is good almost every time. She's only bad against Maverick and Elves--and even then, she has first strike. I don't see how you can write her off without even trying to test with her first.
Side note: why do you run 61 cards--that is to say, Batterskull?
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I really need some Linvalas. Way too much Maverick around my zone, especially with that archetype shifting towards cards like Ulvenwald Tracker and Fauna Shaman.
Anyone have any experience facing SneakShow with Griselbrand?
It looks like we do not have a clear line of play against this deck anymore. In the past, Karakas was dynamite against Show and Tell, and crap against Sneak Attack. But Mangara was always ideal if you could resolve it in time, though I was never willing to tap three mana only to get Forced against that deck, so it was Aether Vial or nothing. And then Oblivion Ring was very good if you had it, and Revoker was the perfect card to bring in against Sneak Attack because they really could not get an attack on you before you resolved this guy unless they had a perfect hand.
But now Revoker is something, but not perfect against Griselbrand because you still get popped for seven each turn while you are only dealing three in return. Mana denial surely seems like the best way to go here, and I am confident that Thalia will earn her keep in this matchup. But even if you resolve Thalia, there is still a good chance the opponent will be able to get off a Show and Tell eventually. So, here's the problem as I see it. Given the choice, and with no Karakas, do you slap down Mangara or Revoker when the opponent casts Show and Tell?
Has anyone faced this new version of the deck yet?
This matchup is tricky, but if I could have any kind of choice, I would probably play a Thalia first, and a Revoker second, naming Griselbrand. If your opp has 4 mana and could throw down a land and a Sneak Attack, you might just name that instead. Griselbrand is the real gamble not to Revoke.
I side in Oblivion Ring, Ensnaring Bridge, and my extra Aven Mindcensor, and my Revokers, and the tutors. I side out Flickerwisp because it has no function except as chump blocker (or attacker). I also side out Sword of Red and Blue, even though it is still pretty good in this matchup, you are only going to tutor for the White/Black one, so you can block Griselbrand. I might leave in Mother of Runes for the same reason. I might side out some number of Stoneforge Mystic, because you don't really have time to play her and tutor an equipment, and play it, and equip before you are dead, so her stock goes down. I also side out Grunt, but now I have removed much of my firepower, so I can't put them on a clock.
This is a tough match. On a blind Show and Tell, I prefer Ensnaring Bridge as the first choice of survival, but if it means they draw seven, you are in real trouble. A revoked Griselbrand is pretty clutch.
I have almost considered Aven Mindcensor as a four-of. And Chalice of the Void at 1, although it shuts out Enlightened Tutor. My thought is, if they get near their combo, they are going to win. Against these kinds of decks, and I want to include Dream Halls and Hive Mind, which are the big three Show and Tell decks, you have to inhibit their setup, while applying pressure. Aven Mindcensor in response to Intuition is possible game win. Chalice at one to disrupt the cantrips can disable them finding their combo.
Choke would be key in a green/white build, especially with Rishadan Port. I may be switching to Merfolk if I continue to see my opponents' Islands.
Edit: Basically, yes you can name Griselbrand as the S&T flip TECHNICALLY happens at the same time. Modo is bugged on this one it appears (No shocker there )
Edit: Basically, yes you can name Griselbrand as the S&T flip TECHNICALLY happens at the same time. Modo is bugged on this one it appears (No shocker there )
Definitely makes me happy, since I am going to the GP Trials for Atlanta this weekend. Can't wait to play Sneak&Show now.
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
Played three rounds of Legacy yesterday, beating WB Blade Control 2-1, Burn 2-1, and losing to DDFT 1-2 because I f'd up: Game two, I had the perfect hand (on the draw, I won the first game): Plains, Port, Wasteland, Vial, Thalia, etc. I played Plains -> Vial, then the next turn played port and passed, porting in his upkeep. Plan was to Waste his U-Sea on my turn, vialing in Thalia, and keep his other land tapped. Well, he went off right after. I guess the lesson here is, if you're up against combo, don't wait for totally blowing out your opponent - drop Thalia as soon as you have the chance to, if only to impede their game plan for a few turns to find other pieces of hate that nail the lock down.
Colo, I think you should always play Thalia on turn two unless you are certain that you will see Daze or Spell Snare. Actually, with an active Vial, hmm, I may hold on to her against RUG or UW-Stoneblade if I have another good turn two play - and Port is one of the best at least if you went first. But you gotta figure that he would have definitely Forced or Dazed Vial if he had it. And anyway, against storm, on the draw...get her out there, man. That was a crazy decision.
Against almost any opponent, get Thalia out there as soon as possible because she is such a ****. She screws everyone.
i read that some of you use circle of protection against red decks in sb. I tried it out and it didn't work. i couldn't play anything, because i saved the mana for protection and my opponent just waited until he had enough spells to kill me in one turn...
and against goblins it takes 2 turns until i can actually use it: 1 turn tutor and 1 turn playing it. when i get to that point they have like 5 goblins onboard with lackey...
So why is this in your sb?
It stops burn cold, but in addition, it is a solid answer to Progenitus
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**Trades** "Practice compassion and mercy. But know when they must end." -Aurelia
@Finn: true, at least in hindsight. DDFT builds normally are a tad slower than your average ANT list, that's why I felt kind of safe to have him at 2 mana during his main phase in his third turn. Well, as we know now, it backfired.
i read that some of you use circle of protection against red decks in sb. I tried it out and it didn't work. i couldn't play anything, because i saved the mana for protection and my opponent just waited until he had enough spells to kill me in one turn...
and against goblins it takes 2 turns until i can actually use it: 1 turn tutor and 1 turn playing it. when i get to that point they have like 5 goblins onboard with lackey...
So why is this in your sb?
Possible you got greedy. You have to count how many spells they can hit you with and keep that mana open.
You don't have to play anything. It is basically a lock. You might even wait til you get eight mana -- they will have a hard time playing more spells than that. You can also count their lands, cards in hand, and do a pretty fair calculation of how many spells they can cast -- keep in mind Fireblast, etc., that don't need mana. Even so, I got greedy once and got blown out by triple Price of Progress when I left two mana open on his EOT.
And I will run CoP:Red versus Goblins, along with Ghostly Prison. That is a hilarious frustration for them. But you need to stop the bleeding first. Throwing a cold Mom under Lackey is a fine play.
I went 2-1-1 at a legacy event at the GPT qualifiers in Oakland. We did 4 rounds and no top 8.
Round 1: RUG
My opponent was playing a RUG deck with maindeck counterbalance.
Game 1 was a long slog back and forth. He played an early counterbalance and started swinging with delver. I vialed in an avenger to kill the delver, then ticked the vial up to 3 and flickerwisped the counterbalance to land a grunt and thalia. I lost thalia and wisp to a fire/ice and then drew a card without paying grunt's upkeep =(. I held on for another 15 minutes by revokering grim lavamancer twice and was looking to stabilize at 6 with a jitte I'd resolved when he nailed me with bolt-> snappy -> bolt and killed me.
Game 2 I did not board anything in. I drew waste, waste, plains, karakas, port, wisp, mangara. I wasted 2 duals but he hit a land drop for the first 4 turns. I landed a mangara lock and then jitte took it home.
We both played pretty slowly and did not make it to game 3.
0-0-1
Round 2: Burn
Game 1: He burned me out in a few turns before I could do much.
Game 2 I boarded in e-tutors and cop: red. I didn't see any hate but managed a win by plowing his elemental and letting him resolve a vexing devil into my mom/avenger combo.
Game 3 I didn't see any hate but landed a stoneforge mystic (where I noticed four tutors and cop: red in a row) into jitte. He sacced his only two land to fireblast the thalia I as I equipped the jitte--it didn't work out for him.
1-0-1
Round 3: Hexdepths Junk
Game 1 I see he's playing rock but don't expect the hexdepths combo so I sack a wasteland to smallpox early on. It probably wouldn't have mattered in the end. He killed me with cthulu.
Game 2 I boarded in mangara and metamorph. He opened with swamp, mox diamond, sinkhole and then another sinkhole next turn. I held on to a thalia to play a sfm when he was on three mana, which I figure was a mistake, because next turn he played liliana. He thoughtseized my equipment and then +1'd my thalia. SFM swung for a few turns to keep lili down. I plowed a hexmage and landed a vial. Eventually he -2'd sfm and played another lili. She got up to 6 before I managed to vial in mangara in response to her +1 and take her out. Mangara lock sealed the game.
Game 3 we do not have not much time left. He drops swamp mox, hexmage, go. I'm feeling good about my hand, I had a revoker, StP and a wisp to stop marit lage. I play a plains and say go. Turn 2 he thoughtseizes me, I figured I'd swords his hexmage in response. He responds with crop rotation -> depths -> marit lage token. Turn 2 20/20 kills me with a few minutes on the clock.
1-1-1
Round 4: No Bant
Game 1 I was on the play. I dropped a plains and a vial. He played a tropical and a noble hierarch. I wasted the trop and plowed the hierarch. Death and Taxes did its job from there as I ported his only land and vialed in a thalia and an avenger to kill him.
Game 2 was long and close. He played a turn 4 progenitus. I had boarded in cop:red and metamorph but not any e-tutors because I was worried he would board out the NO package and did not want to be over committed. Thankfully I had the metamorph in my opening hand and killed progenitus. He played delver and from the trigger I saw another NO. I spent the rest of the game keeping him off 4 land with double ports and a revoker on hierarch until SOFI won the game.
2-1-1 and I won 5 packs.
I felt like the deck could have easily gone 4-0. I was worried about combo going in to the day, hence 4 mainboard thalia and revokers. There was plenty of combo there but I did not hit any. I was a little bummed losing to hex depths when almost every card in the deck is an answer to marit lage. I would have won the first round if I hadn't missed the grunt trigger but that's what I get for being a crappy player.
Even with no combo rounds, Thalia earned her place every game. Whenever I played something else before her I later felt like it was a missplay. 4 revokers were a little iffy. I would do -1 revoker and +1 avenger if I was expecting less combo.
So, with the spoiler of Sublime Archangel and the explosive growth of Maverick I think there's good reason to begin putting in 4CMC creatures in the deck, since Linvala is a card that I feel we really need to play.
To sum up my thoughts: Vial at four is a no-no, since a pseudo-hasted Mangara and a buttsaving Flickerwisp trigger at instant speed are the deck's strongest Vial tricks. Combine that with the hunger for mana between Rishadan Port and all the equipments, I don't think that a (at times, on the attack) 6/5 flying critter that can still be bolted comfortably pretty much any time does anything relevant for the deck at all.
Played at both Grand Prix Trials for Atlanta this weekend at Syracuse and Vestal, NY. Also haven't played much legacy in the past month, and partied each night before the tourneys until 4am, so my performance was less than optimal. But I managed a 4th place finish at Vestal. Some quick notes on matchups I had:
Shardless Agent. Look at this card and remember it. Hypergenesis may yet become a real combo deck because of it. It pitches to Force of Will. It gets around Ethersworn Canonist. In fact, I lost to Hypergenesis because of this card--and because of a misunderstanding of Phyrexian Metamorph. For everyone who does not know (as I did) phyrexian metamorph can NOT copy any creatures off a hypergenesis. It has to be cast for it to be effective. Found this out far too late.
SneakShow is a riot. Totally goofy matchup, and I had a level-2 judge confirm what was said last page: you can indeed see what you opponent plays off a show before naming with revoker, but they have no chance to respond. And I played with an opponent with 4 Griselbrands, 4 emrakul, no progenitus. I guess that's the new fad...
I won against an elf deck this week, double revoker on his priest and archdruid the second game, third game a revoker on archdruid and a jitte equipped for GG.
I also beat Rock Nic Fit with a Mangara lock the hard way: hardcast for three, karakas-exile-recast next turn. Won the match 2-0.
Lost to Reanimator for the first time in a while, and realized how good ensnaring bridge is right now. Until this griselbrand fad dies out, bridge is definitely superior to Ghostly Prison--though I definitely like the latter much more.
Had some embarrassing slip ups this weekend, like losses to RUG, UR Delver and Storm (had to mull to 4 first game and almost had him, but Thalia was showing no love.)
On the note of 4 drops: No. Just...no. I have a hard enough time casting my 3-drops, between wasting and porting opponents and having karakas blown up all the time, 4-drops are just unfeasible in this deck. Give them to Maverick; they like creatures.
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
Did fairly poorly in a local legacy tournament for duals/Goyfs/other expensive things.
It was my first tournament piloting D&T, but I had playtested quite a bit so I still felt somewhat confident. I thought I played the deck tightly and accurately despite being a rookie, but I had some unlucky breaks.
Round 1 I lost 1-2 to NO Bant. Game 1 I beat him handily. I had game 2 locked up the following turn on the backs of 2 Avengers, but he Brainstormed into 2 StPs. :/ Game 3 he resolved NO and won w/Progenitus.
Round 2 I beat a BUG deck 2-0. Not much to report here.
Round 3 I got destroyed by UR Delver. I thought this was supposed to be an OK match? I got blown out by removal (Forked Bolt, mainly). I guess not getting a Mom to stick around was the main reason.
Round 4 I tied against a Grixis control deck. He played pretty slowly, but I'm pretty positive he would've won game 3 had we had more time so I scooped to him to see if he'd have a shot at top 8.
I really like how the deck plays, I think I just had some bad luck that day. Round 1 would've been a completely different story had he only Brainstormed into 1 StP, let alone none. Against UR Delver maybe I didn't play as tightly as I thought. Flipped Delvers backed by countermagic are tough to beat. Do I mull until I get a Vial?
TLK, we all have such different experiences w/matchups mostly because D+T is draw-dependent. Not much search means you get different cards every game.
Interesting reports, folks.
I like the Delver matchup, but the 3 color one I like better. Burn works better against D+T than Tarmos and Mongeese. And a 3 color manabase is putty to our denial plan.
I feel bad reading that Hexmage matchup. That's a hard pill to swallow. It is not a good deck, and we really are its nightmare matchup.
I am anxious about the Sneak Show matchup. It looks like we are not as strong there as we used to be.
Elves. Ahh gee. When you get Jitte action, you win. My opponents always seem to have plenty of removal for my Jittes though. This is part of the reason I went to Feast//Famine for awhile.
I was curious: Has anyone tried Harm's Way in the sideboard? I would think it'd come in handy against decks with heavy removal (Burn, UR Delver, RUG Delver). Is CoP: Red just better?
Another issue I ran into during Saturday's tournament was how to sideboard. Like most others, I run the 4x E. Tutor sideboard package, but could NEVER figure out what to cut in certain matchups. I ended up inserting a few cards that would help me but didn't bring in the tutors because I had no idea what to cut. I had a hard enough time cutting a couple cards, let alone 4 more. Any help on this?
Shardless Agent. Look at this card and remember it. Hypergenesis may yet become a real combo deck because of it. It pitches to Force of Will. It gets around Ethersworn Canonist. In fact, I lost to Hypergenesis because of this card--and because of a misunderstanding of Phyrexian Metamorph. For everyone who does not know (as I did) phyrexian metamorph can NOT copy any creatures off a hypergenesis. It has to be cast for it to be effective. Found this out far too late.
What what? This doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what you're saying has to be cast for Phyrexian Metamorph to be effective, the Metamorph or whatever you'd like to copy, but either way, I don't think it's accurate.
What is true is that Metamorph (and the other clone-like guys) can only copy a creature(/artifact) that is already on the battlefield. Thus, you can't use a Metamorph as your Show and Tell choice to copy (and, presumably, legend rule) your opponent's Show and Tell choice, because Show and Tell has both permanents enter the battlefield at the same time.
Hypergenesis (and Eureka) is different, though. Permanents enter the battlefield one at a time, in order, starting with its controller. So, if your opponent lays down an Emrakul as their first choice, you can lay down a Metamorph as a copy of it, and they'll be legend-ruled the next time state-based effects are checked (Metamorph's ability is not a ETB trigger). Note: I don't think you get to shuffle your graveyard into your library due to the Metamorph hitting the yard as an Emrakul.
You cannot, however, put down a Metamorph from the Hypergenesis before the desired source of your copy, because that permanent isn't on the battlefield yet. So, you have to wait until the thing you want to copy has already been put on the battlefield. This shouldn't be hard to do, because even if you pass, if your opponent then puts down an Emrakul, you still have a chance to play the Metamorph. Hypergenesis doesn't end until you go one round with all players choosing not to play a permanent.
What what? This doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what you're saying has to be cast for Phyrexian Metamorph to be effective, the Metamorph or whatever you'd like to copy, but either way, I don't think it's accurate.
What is true is that Metamorph (and the other clone-like guys) can only copy a creature(/artifact) that is already on the battlefield. Thus, you can't use a Metamorph as your Show and Tell choice to copy (and, presumably, legend rule) your opponent's Show and Tell choice, because Show and Tell has both permanents enter the battlefield at the same time.
Hypergenesis (and Eureka) is different, though. Permanents enter the battlefield one at a time, in order, starting with its controller. So, if your opponent lays down an Emrakul as their first choice, you can lay down a Metamorph as a copy of it, and they'll be legend-ruled the next time state-based effects are checked (Metamorph's ability is not a ETB trigger). Note: I don't think you get to shuffle your graveyard into your library due to the Metamorph hitting the yard as an Emrakul.
You cannot, however, put down a Metamorph from the Hypergenesis before the desired source of your copy, because that permanent isn't on the battlefield yet. So, you have to wait until the thing you want to copy has already been put on the battlefield. This shouldn't be hard to do, because even if you pass, if your opponent then puts down an Emrakul, you still have a chance to play the Metamorph. Hypergenesis doesn't end until you go one round with all players choosing not to play a permanent.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Phyrexian Metamorph can "see" previous cards played off the same Hypergenesis resolution, but not the other player's card choice off Show and Tell.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
What is true is that Metamorph (and the other clone-like guys) can only copy a creature(/artifact) that is already on the battlefield. Thus, you can't use a Metamorph as your Show and Tell choice to copy (and, presumably, legend rule) your opponent's Show and Tell choice, because Show and Tell has both permanents enter the battlefield at the same time.
That's what I meant, that it has to be cast after the hypergenesis to be effective--on whenver progenitus is on the battlefield.
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Phyrexian Metamorph can "see" previous cards played off the same Hypergenesis resolution, but not the other player's card choice off Show and Tell.
That sounds right to me. Because they each resolve one at a time, it would make sense for a copy card to be able to come down as one.
Now I have a question about phyrexian revoker and show and tell. Am I allowed to wait until I see my opponents choice in card before naming the target? At the same time if my opponent plays a Griselbrand, and I use revoker naming Griselbrand, will they have any chance to draw cards off of it?
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22nd Place at Pro Tour Gatecrash....Well Fantasy Pro Tour Gatecrash
Legacy: Death and Taxes
Modern: RG Tron
EDH: Oona, Queen of the Fae
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I said it a page or so back. Get Thalia and play her. Whatever creature you take out is the right call. She is that good.
I have a Grunt, Avenger, and Revoker out right now. I have vassalated between 2 and 3 Grunts in the main for years. The Revoker down to three was only a bit harder. But the Avenger at three feels dirty. You also have to be careful playing 2 and 3-ofs in a deck with so little library manipulation. You get real consistency issues like that. With the legends it makes sense, but all of the recent cuts simply can not be permanent. I am waiting to see where the format goes to figure out which creature to completely cut so that the deck makes sense again. But it has already been longer than I figured, and I am not close to an opinion on the matter.
Thing is, Thalia helps practically any matchup, not just combo. Unlike Grunt or Revoker, who shine is certain matchups but suck in others, Thalia is good almost every time. She's only bad against Maverick and Elves--and even then, she has first strike. I don't see how you can write her off without even trying to test with her first.
Side note: why do you run 61 cards--that is to say, Batterskull?
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Thalia is the nuts. That card is sooooo good. Play her. Love her. I wish I could run her in RUG sometimes.
Thanks to DarkKnightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this awesome signature!
This matchup is tricky, but if I could have any kind of choice, I would probably play a Thalia first, and a Revoker second, naming Griselbrand. If your opp has 4 mana and could throw down a land and a Sneak Attack, you might just name that instead. Griselbrand is the real gamble not to Revoke.
I side in Oblivion Ring, Ensnaring Bridge, and my extra Aven Mindcensor, and my Revokers, and the tutors. I side out Flickerwisp because it has no function except as chump blocker (or attacker). I also side out Sword of Red and Blue, even though it is still pretty good in this matchup, you are only going to tutor for the White/Black one, so you can block Griselbrand. I might leave in Mother of Runes for the same reason. I might side out some number of Stoneforge Mystic, because you don't really have time to play her and tutor an equipment, and play it, and equip before you are dead, so her stock goes down. I also side out Grunt, but now I have removed much of my firepower, so I can't put them on a clock.
This is a tough match. On a blind Show and Tell, I prefer Ensnaring Bridge as the first choice of survival, but if it means they draw seven, you are in real trouble. A revoked Griselbrand is pretty clutch.
I have almost considered Aven Mindcensor as a four-of. And Chalice of the Void at 1, although it shuts out Enlightened Tutor. My thought is, if they get near their combo, they are going to win. Against these kinds of decks, and I want to include Dream Halls and Hive Mind, which are the big three Show and Tell decks, you have to inhibit their setup, while applying pressure. Aven Mindcensor in response to Intuition is possible game win. Chalice at one to disrupt the cantrips can disable them finding their combo.
Choke would be key in a green/white build, especially with Rishadan Port. I may be switching to Merfolk if I continue to see my opponents' Islands.
J
Funny thing how some topics just happen when you discuss stuff:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8500041#post8500041
Edit: Basically, yes you can name Griselbrand as the S&T flip TECHNICALLY happens at the same time. Modo is bugged on this one it appears (No shocker there
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Definitely makes me happy, since I am going to the GP Trials for Atlanta this weekend. Can't wait to play Sneak&Show now.
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
Against almost any opponent, get Thalia out there as soon as possible because she is such a ****. She screws everyone.
It stops burn cold, but in addition, it is a solid answer to Progenitus
**Trades**
"Practice compassion and mercy. But know when they must end." -Aurelia
Possible you got greedy. You have to count how many spells they can hit you with and keep that mana open.
You don't have to play anything. It is basically a lock. You might even wait til you get eight mana -- they will have a hard time playing more spells than that. You can also count their lands, cards in hand, and do a pretty fair calculation of how many spells they can cast -- keep in mind Fireblast, etc., that don't need mana. Even so, I got greedy once and got blown out by triple Price of Progress when I left two mana open on his EOT.
And I will run CoP:Red versus Goblins, along with Ghostly Prison. That is a hilarious frustration for them. But you need to stop the bleeding first. Throwing a cold Mom under Lackey is a fine play.
J
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
10 plains
1 flagstones of trokair
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
4 stoneforge mystic
2 jotun grunt
3 serra avenger
4 flickerwisp
2 mangara of corondor
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 mother of runes
4 phyrexian revoker
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of light and shadow
1 grafdigger's cage
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 relic of progenitus
1 serenity
1 serra avenger
1 mangara of corondor
1 jotun grunt
1 circle of protection: red
1 phyrexian metamorph
2 ethersworn canonist
I went 2-1-1 at a legacy event at the GPT qualifiers in Oakland. We did 4 rounds and no top 8.
Round 1: RUG
My opponent was playing a RUG deck with maindeck counterbalance.
Game 1 was a long slog back and forth. He played an early counterbalance and started swinging with delver. I vialed in an avenger to kill the delver, then ticked the vial up to 3 and flickerwisped the counterbalance to land a grunt and thalia. I lost thalia and wisp to a fire/ice and then drew a card without paying grunt's upkeep =(. I held on for another 15 minutes by revokering grim lavamancer twice and was looking to stabilize at 6 with a jitte I'd resolved when he nailed me with bolt-> snappy -> bolt and killed me.
Game 2 I did not board anything in. I drew waste, waste, plains, karakas, port, wisp, mangara. I wasted 2 duals but he hit a land drop for the first 4 turns. I landed a mangara lock and then jitte took it home.
We both played pretty slowly and did not make it to game 3.
0-0-1
Round 2: Burn
Game 1: He burned me out in a few turns before I could do much.
Game 2 I boarded in e-tutors and cop: red. I didn't see any hate but managed a win by plowing his elemental and letting him resolve a vexing devil into my mom/avenger combo.
Game 3 I didn't see any hate but landed a stoneforge mystic (where I noticed four tutors and cop: red in a row) into jitte. He sacced his only two land to fireblast the thalia I as I equipped the jitte--it didn't work out for him.
1-0-1
Round 3: Hexdepths Junk
Game 1 I see he's playing rock but don't expect the hexdepths combo so I sack a wasteland to smallpox early on. It probably wouldn't have mattered in the end. He killed me with cthulu.
Game 2 I boarded in mangara and metamorph. He opened with swamp, mox diamond, sinkhole and then another sinkhole next turn. I held on to a thalia to play a sfm when he was on three mana, which I figure was a mistake, because next turn he played liliana. He thoughtseized my equipment and then +1'd my thalia. SFM swung for a few turns to keep lili down. I plowed a hexmage and landed a vial. Eventually he -2'd sfm and played another lili. She got up to 6 before I managed to vial in mangara in response to her +1 and take her out. Mangara lock sealed the game.
Game 3 we do not have not much time left. He drops swamp mox, hexmage, go. I'm feeling good about my hand, I had a revoker, StP and a wisp to stop marit lage. I play a plains and say go. Turn 2 he thoughtseizes me, I figured I'd swords his hexmage in response. He responds with crop rotation -> depths -> marit lage token. Turn 2 20/20 kills me with a few minutes on the clock.
1-1-1
Round 4: No Bant
Game 1 I was on the play. I dropped a plains and a vial. He played a tropical and a noble hierarch. I wasted the trop and plowed the hierarch. Death and Taxes did its job from there as I ported his only land and vialed in a thalia and an avenger to kill him.
Game 2 was long and close. He played a turn 4 progenitus. I had boarded in cop:red and metamorph but not any e-tutors because I was worried he would board out the NO package and did not want to be over committed. Thankfully I had the metamorph in my opening hand and killed progenitus. He played delver and from the trigger I saw another NO. I spent the rest of the game keeping him off 4 land with double ports and a revoker on hierarch until SOFI won the game.
2-1-1 and I won 5 packs.
I felt like the deck could have easily gone 4-0. I was worried about combo going in to the day, hence 4 mainboard thalia and revokers. There was plenty of combo there but I did not hit any. I was a little bummed losing to hex depths when almost every card in the deck is an answer to marit lage. I would have won the first round if I hadn't missed the grunt trigger but that's what I get for being a crappy player.
Even with no combo rounds, Thalia earned her place every game. Whenever I played something else before her I later felt like it was a missplay. 4 revokers were a little iffy. I would do -1 revoker and +1 avenger if I was expecting less combo.
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Right. Thought so.
To sum up my thoughts: Vial at four is a no-no, since a pseudo-hasted Mangara and a buttsaving Flickerwisp trigger at instant speed are the deck's strongest Vial tricks. Combine that with the hunger for mana between Rishadan Port and all the equipments, I don't think that a (at times, on the attack) 6/5 flying critter that can still be bolted comfortably pretty much any time does anything relevant for the deck at all.
Shardless Agent. Look at this card and remember it. Hypergenesis may yet become a real combo deck because of it. It pitches to Force of Will. It gets around Ethersworn Canonist. In fact, I lost to Hypergenesis because of this card--and because of a misunderstanding of Phyrexian Metamorph. For everyone who does not know (as I did) phyrexian metamorph can NOT copy any creatures off a hypergenesis. It has to be cast for it to be effective. Found this out far too late.
SneakShow is a riot. Totally goofy matchup, and I had a level-2 judge confirm what was said last page: you can indeed see what you opponent plays off a show before naming with revoker, but they have no chance to respond. And I played with an opponent with 4 Griselbrands, 4 emrakul, no progenitus. I guess that's the new fad...
I won against an elf deck this week, double revoker on his priest and archdruid the second game, third game a revoker on archdruid and a jitte equipped for GG.
I also beat Rock Nic Fit with a Mangara lock the hard way: hardcast for three, karakas-exile-recast next turn. Won the match 2-0.
Lost to Reanimator for the first time in a while, and realized how good ensnaring bridge is right now. Until this griselbrand fad dies out, bridge is definitely superior to Ghostly Prison--though I definitely like the latter much more.
Had some embarrassing slip ups this weekend, like losses to RUG, UR Delver and Storm (had to mull to 4 first game and almost had him, but Thalia was showing no love.)
On the note of 4 drops: No. Just...no. I have a hard enough time casting my 3-drops, between wasting and porting opponents and having karakas blown up all the time, 4-drops are just unfeasible in this deck. Give them to Maverick; they like creatures.
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
It was my first tournament piloting D&T, but I had playtested quite a bit so I still felt somewhat confident. I thought I played the deck tightly and accurately despite being a rookie, but I had some unlucky breaks.
Round 1 I lost 1-2 to NO Bant. Game 1 I beat him handily. I had game 2 locked up the following turn on the backs of 2 Avengers, but he Brainstormed into 2 StPs. :/ Game 3 he resolved NO and won w/Progenitus.
Round 2 I beat a BUG deck 2-0. Not much to report here.
Round 3 I got destroyed by UR Delver. I thought this was supposed to be an OK match? I got blown out by removal (Forked Bolt, mainly). I guess not getting a Mom to stick around was the main reason.
Round 4 I tied against a Grixis control deck. He played pretty slowly, but I'm pretty positive he would've won game 3 had we had more time so I scooped to him to see if he'd have a shot at top 8.
I really like how the deck plays, I think I just had some bad luck that day. Round 1 would've been a completely different story had he only Brainstormed into 1 StP, let alone none. Against UR Delver maybe I didn't play as tightly as I thought. Flipped Delvers backed by countermagic are tough to beat. Do I mull until I get a Vial?
Interesting reports, folks.
I like the Delver matchup, but the 3 color one I like better. Burn works better against D+T than Tarmos and Mongeese. And a 3 color manabase is putty to our denial plan.
I feel bad reading that Hexmage matchup. That's a hard pill to swallow. It is not a good deck, and we really are its nightmare matchup.
I am anxious about the Sneak Show matchup. It looks like we are not as strong there as we used to be.
Elves. Ahh gee. When you get Jitte action, you win. My opponents always seem to have plenty of removal for my Jittes though. This is part of the reason I went to Feast//Famine for awhile.
Another issue I ran into during Saturday's tournament was how to sideboard. Like most others, I run the 4x E. Tutor sideboard package, but could NEVER figure out what to cut in certain matchups. I ended up inserting a few cards that would help me but didn't bring in the tutors because I had no idea what to cut. I had a hard enough time cutting a couple cards, let alone 4 more. Any help on this?
What what? This doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what you're saying has to be cast for Phyrexian Metamorph to be effective, the Metamorph or whatever you'd like to copy, but either way, I don't think it's accurate.
What is true is that Metamorph (and the other clone-like guys) can only copy a creature(/artifact) that is already on the battlefield. Thus, you can't use a Metamorph as your Show and Tell choice to copy (and, presumably, legend rule) your opponent's Show and Tell choice, because Show and Tell has both permanents enter the battlefield at the same time.
Hypergenesis (and Eureka) is different, though. Permanents enter the battlefield one at a time, in order, starting with its controller. So, if your opponent lays down an Emrakul as their first choice, you can lay down a Metamorph as a copy of it, and they'll be legend-ruled the next time state-based effects are checked (Metamorph's ability is not a ETB trigger). Note: I don't think you get to shuffle your graveyard into your library due to the Metamorph hitting the yard as an Emrakul.
You cannot, however, put down a Metamorph from the Hypergenesis before the desired source of your copy, because that permanent isn't on the battlefield yet. So, you have to wait until the thing you want to copy has already been put on the battlefield. This shouldn't be hard to do, because even if you pass, if your opponent then puts down an Emrakul, you still have a chance to play the Metamorph. Hypergenesis doesn't end until you go one round with all players choosing not to play a permanent.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Phyrexian Metamorph can "see" previous cards played off the same Hypergenesis resolution, but not the other player's card choice off Show and Tell.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingThat's what I meant, that it has to be cast after the hypergenesis to be effective--on whenver progenitus is on the battlefield.
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
That sounds right to me. Because they each resolve one at a time, it would make sense for a copy card to be able to come down as one.
Now I have a question about phyrexian revoker and show and tell. Am I allowed to wait until I see my opponents choice in card before naming the target? At the same time if my opponent plays a Griselbrand, and I use revoker naming Griselbrand, will they have any chance to draw cards off of it?
Legacy:
Modern:
EDH: