Welp, if the cat is out of the bag that this strategy is insane, I guess I'll post my list as well. I've done some slight tweaking, but I got this from a pair of guys at Gen Con who were crushing side events. I've only got around 80 games in with it so far, but it seems pretty nutty. I'm not 100% convinced that all my numbers are correct or that I have the correct creature suite, but the general strategy feels amazing.
Hi guys, I haven't played the game in a month (vacations in the middle of nowhere) and been missing out on the latest developments. Things look interesting. I had the idea for 8 Thalias with Sol Lands a while ago but never got to test it. I'm not completely sure about using Eldrazi lands and creatures though. Will get to testing when I get home in September.
My idea would be to trim the creature base (Flickerwisp and anything WW would have to go) to something more Stax-like, akin to the Stompy list I posted a couple months ago. Mana would be generated by a full set of Ancient Tomb and maybe 1-2 CoT, keeping the Ports. Get rid of Vial and put Chalice in its place, with Mox Diamond for fast mana.
Clearly, this is a less aggressive build than Colorless Eldrazi, but it may also be more powerful. Thalia 1.0 and 2.0 and SfM with Chalice is quite a lot of hate and it doesn't try to remove opposing creatures so much as run over them.
EDIT:
Youch, Mox Diamond is getting very expensive.
I'm trying the Thalia Eldrazi list with Exalted Angels in the flex spot. They are actually pretty good in this list. Old school Angel Stompy has become Thalia's Eldrazi Stompy.
Edit: I agree the Thalia Eldrazi list is a different beast from DnT.
I personally feel like the new Eldrazi deck is a whole different beast. Not to say it's not good, but it's not DnT. DnT was so named because it's a white weenie deck, this has very few white creatures and relies on the strength of eldrazi creatures which are big. No Port, no Vial, no flickerwisp...not DnT. This is Mono white midrange, which sounds weird to say. I think the goal of the deck is different enough to warrant a whole new archetype, but too much discussion of it in DnT threads will dilute both conversations.
Which isn't to say it isn't an exciting development. If Finn and others are okay with some discussion of it here until it fails or gestates into a thing of it's own, I support that. It feels like something that the DnT players in particular will understand and help nourish.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
This is what I was talking about, how the new Thalia is strong enough to spawn several decks with her in their core. If it can manage good matchups, it is going to be such a a cool deck.
Blue and Taxes got 8th. Is that player on this forum and maybe could comment on the list?
I really like the list. The simple splash is good. As much as I love Clique and True Name Nemesis, not having vial can make it tough to keep the mana consistent. I like that there are only 2 Tundra but I personally like having an Island and I don't run more than just 4 Flooded Strand. I do really like what this person did with their list though. I have to wonder if having displacer if it would make sense have adarkar wastes?
Got a tournament report, first one, and I didn't really take notes so this is all from memory. got 9th out of 44 for picks, walked away with a misty rainforest. Starting the report now and finishing later. My friend also comes with D&T and gets 3rd, and overall D&T gets 3 of the prizing spots, so we did well collectively.
Round 1: Burn 2-1
Game one went poorly, didn't have mom, didn't have SFM, and my opponent has vortex
In: SoWaP, 2 Ethersworn Canonists, Pithing needle
Out: 3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Sword of Fire and Ice
Game two I grab a Batterskull with sfm and it gets bolted, but I also have SoWaP in hand. My opponent plays vortex, sadness. put it on a dude swing in for some damage. Get the wisp, gain some life and close game 2.
Game three. Opponent keeps a no lander on the play. I play land go, my opponent guides, I sword it, then I untap SFM for SoWaP. it gets bolted. I play revoker on lavamancer, it gets bolted and he plays a lavamancer, then I drop another revoker, equip. Opponent plays vortex again, sadness x3. I flicker it a couple times and close the game out anyways.
1-0
Round 2; Grixis Delver 2-0
I remember very little. Game one he probes then plays delver, then cabal therapies hitting 2 SFM. Thalia mk 1 ends up being taxing enough with revoker on DRS that I eventually get there.
In: 2 Rest in Peace
Out: 1 Flickerwisp, 1 Serra Avenger
Wanted some extra hedge against DRS and assumed he had anglers in main
Game two was hilarious though. My opponent ends up dropping 4 DRS at one point, but lost two to a Thalia heretic cathar as he triple blocked while I had a plow in hand. Ends up being super grindy as my opponent draws air and I do as well.
2-0
Round 3: Elves 2-1
I sit down at table one feeling pretty good. Feeling ends quickly
Game 1, plays DRS of a forest, I put him on bug so I swords it. He untaps and plays Nettle Sentinel and Sadness sets in. I die a horrible painful death on turn 4
In: 2 Canonists, 2 Containment Priests
Out: 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Easy cuts here
Game 2 have an opener of Mom plus double Canonist, made a mistake but it ends up slowing the game down long enough for me to find Jitte and close it out.
In: 2 Path to Exiles
Out: 1 Flickerwisp, 1 Crusader
Wanted the removal thinking it might be good if I can snag a crucial elf
Game 3, hand has canonist, sfm, mom, vial, path, and 2 lands. Seems good. Opponent goes forest Elvish mystic. I go into the tank, play a plains and pass, pathing in his upkeep. He declines to search. He misses his second land drop and goes sentinel go. I play my canonist and pass turn, he plays another sentinel and a gaea's cradle and passes. I waste his cradle drop sfm grabbing jitte and two turns later I close out the game. Got about as lucky as can be
3-0
Two win and ins, win one and can draw in.
Round 4: Death and Taxes 0-2
Not a lot to talk about here, mulled in both games, opponent found jitte first and the games ended quickly
3-1
Round 5: Dredge (Joseph Moreno) 0-2
Had some fun banter while playing praying to dodge the breakthrough.
Game one, didn't dodge the breakthrough, died fast
In: 3 Rest in Peace, 2 Containment Priest, 2 Ethersworn Canonist
Out: 3 Revokers, 1 flickerwisp, 2 crusaders, 1 Avenger
Draw hate or lose
Game 2, mull once due to no lander. Hand has canonist, good enough I guess to buy me some turns as Moreno doesn't play combo with dread return and grinds instead. He hits a lot of land drops, I make a couple of misplays, he makes a couple of misplays, I trade my batterskull for 3 bridges, but he already has 6 zombies. Jitte gets decayed, and I never see a second piece of hate.
3-2
Can't top 8, but 9th gets picks so Living the dream, and my two losses both topped.
Round 6: Moggcatcher 1-2
Game 1 he gets the play, chalice on one, chalice on 2, and blood moon turn 3. I resolve a revoker on chrome mox with cavern, and was looking good until he top decks moggcatcher. Try to grind for a few more turns, get a 2 SFM, and a Revoker to resolve under his chalices, and lose anyways
In: 2 Gideon Ally of Zendikar, 1 Needle, 2 Council's Judgment
Out: 4 Thalia guardian of thraben, 1 flickerwisp
Thought hard about bringing in priests but decided against it as I think vial is too important here, and I have other outs to moggcatcher
Game 2, opponent mulls to 5, I drop vial on the play, he goes mountain, and I hard cast a SFM getting Jitte, he gets vial on 1 for his turn 2, I vial in mom. Turn 3 he drops Magus of the moon, I vial in Avenger and put jitte into play, and that closes out the game in a few turns killing his moggcatcher then his magus before he scoops
Game 3, opponent mulls to 5 again, unfortunate. Turn 1 mountain go, I do nothing but play a land. Turn two he chalices on one. I play revoker and pass, turn 3 does nothing but a land. I go turn 3 wasteland. Turn 4 he plays a land again jitte, I go into Thalia heretic Cathar and get in for 2 again. Turn 5 he again does nothing. I Play gideon on turn 5 make a knight and get in for 5 putting him to 11. turn 5 he plays simian spirit guide hard cast and equips. I swing for 11 with gideon and finishes the set.
4-2
Deck felt good, got a misty for 9th at least which was nice, and the thalia heretic cathars felt really good. Maybe I make some space in sideboard for some warping wails, but no incidents came up for me where I would think I needed them
Cavern of Souls, Plains, Plains, Flickerwisp, Swords to Plowshares, Swords to Plowshares, AEther Vial.
Did your opponent keep his seven? Even if he did, I'd still likely keep this on the draw. You're likely to topdeck into better stuff, since DnT is that kind of deck. With Vial and Plowshares, you have something to do in the early turns no matter what, and worst-case scenario, you have an uncounterable 3-clock with evasion on turn 3. If you assume "unknown opponent" is just "Legacy Value.dec" - which I do - then it's aggro, control, or aggro-control. This hand is bad against most combo decks, but combo is ~20% of the meta on a given day. If ~4% is Elves, then this hand is practically useless only a sixth of the time, and likely relevant enough the other ~84%.
Now, this hand isn't what I would call "good" against Elves, but if you find yourself in a surprise matchup against the deck, a Vial hand with 2 Plowshares is not the worst thing to have, and is certainly serviceable enough, especially considering what little we have to work with in game 1. You have your first two turns mapped out, and you get 3 chances to draw a relevant card to continue the halt. I'd take those odds against Elves in game 1. Beggars cannot be choosers for that one.
I'd also keep this hand against Miracles, because consider: is the hand keepable as a 6-card hand, just minus the worst card? If the answer is yes, then it's likely keepable. Now, this question applies more to a Brainstorm deck, since you can count bad cards as potential good cards later, but that's ok. DnT on game 1 attempts to cast a very wide net. When I lose a very quick game 1, it's likely because I kept a value hand like this one and my opponent ended up being on combo, or my "net" was perhaps a bit narrow, and also thrown in the wrong direction. No sweat. The sideboard will be full of focused taxes for the other 2. Just play your odds and hope for the best.
Back to Miracles, I'd consider this hand a keeper, because using my question from above, is Plains, Plains, Cavern, Vial, Plow, Wisp a keepable hand? I mean, I'd keep almost any Vial hand against Miracles, but one that also has Cavern?! Now you're just teasing.
More likely than not, you will topdeck enough threats that this slow, creature-hate-heavy hand will blossom into a good playable one because it's foundational in nature. But-- short of a weird Sinkhole-meta, you know you will make your third land drop on time, you have multiple shots to stop Delver, Goyf, or any other quick beater, and you have potential to draw yourself into some acceleration via Vial fuel. It's not a great hand by any means (though maybe against Delver decks, it is), but it'll do if you can reasonably expect your opponent to be on a "fair" deck.
Note: I'd add as a caveat facing down Eldrazi with a Chalice opener that this one might not be the greatest, but a) you have Wisp to flip it, hopefully in time to Plow 2 guys on turn 4, and b) because absent a Chalice opener from Eldrazi, this hand is pretty great.
Recruiter of the Guard 2W
Creature - Human Soldier
When *name* enters the battlefield, search library for creature with toughness 2 or less, put into hand.
1/1
Fighting for more slots? I like that they did toughness since we always malign that we always get x/1's
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 4 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2012
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
Oh. My. God. It's happening. It's really happening. Article coming later tonight.
Pre-ordering for a whopping <strike>$20</strike> $15 on SCG. Can't decide if that's overpriced considering how much the set will be opened, or if it's a bargain considering it's an on-color Imperial Recruiter.
Either way, I'm grabbing a paper bag to breathe into.
Oh. My. God. It's happening. It's really happening. Article coming later tonight.
Pre-ordering for a whopping <strike>$20</strike> $15 on SCG. Can't decide if that's overpriced considering how much the set will be opened, or if it's a bargain considering it's an on-color Imperial Recruiter.
Either way, I'm grabbing a paper bag to breathe into.
Can you link the preorder page? original conspiracy was in small supply around here
Oh. My. God. It's happening. It's really happening. Article coming later tonight.
Pre-ordering for a whopping <strike>$20</strike> $15 on SCG. Can't decide if that's overpriced considering how much the set will be opened, or if it's a bargain considering it's an on-color Imperial Recruiter.
Either way, I'm grabbing a paper bag to breathe into.
Can you link the preorder page? original conspiracy was in small supply around here
I'm loving it. Mono White Recruiter. Break out the thinking caps boys, we're going to have to readjust the deck!
Nah. I've already been on Imperial D&T for years now :P.
The only change I'm making is swapping out imperial recruiter for this guy. It's better 100% (being able to get flickerwhisps too now!? *drool*)
4x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Karakas
7x Plains
4x Wasteland
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Lotus Petal
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Pithing Needle
4x Rest in Peace
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Warping Wail
1x Armageddon
My idea would be to trim the creature base (Flickerwisp and anything WW would have to go) to something more Stax-like, akin to the Stompy list I posted a couple months ago. Mana would be generated by a full set of Ancient Tomb and maybe 1-2 CoT, keeping the Ports. Get rid of Vial and put Chalice in its place, with Mox Diamond for fast mana.
Cheers, hope you guys are having a fun summer.
Clearly, this is a less aggressive build than Colorless Eldrazi, but it may also be more powerful. Thalia 1.0 and 2.0 and SfM with Chalice is quite a lot of hate and it doesn't try to remove opposing creatures so much as run over them.
EDIT:
Youch, Mox Diamond is getting very expensive.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Edit: I agree the Thalia Eldrazi list is a different beast from DnT.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=11
Blue and Taxes got 8th. Is that player on this forum and maybe could comment on the list?
I really like the list. The simple splash is good. As much as I love Clique and True Name Nemesis, not having vial can make it tough to keep the mana consistent. I like that there are only 2 Tundra but I personally like having an Island and I don't run more than just 4 Flooded Strand. I do really like what this person did with their list though. I have to wonder if having displacer if it would make sense have adarkar wastes?
Pretty stock list imo.
11 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Ports
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
Creatures (26)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priests
2 Path to exile
2 Council's Judgment
3 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of War and Peace
Round 1: Burn 2-1
Game one went poorly, didn't have mom, didn't have SFM, and my opponent has vortex
In: SoWaP, 2 Ethersworn Canonists, Pithing needle
Out: 3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Sword of Fire and Ice
Game two I grab a Batterskull with sfm and it gets bolted, but I also have SoWaP in hand. My opponent plays vortex, sadness. put it on a dude swing in for some damage. Get the wisp, gain some life and close game 2.
Game three. Opponent keeps a no lander on the play. I play land go, my opponent guides, I sword it, then I untap SFM for SoWaP. it gets bolted. I play revoker on lavamancer, it gets bolted and he plays a lavamancer, then I drop another revoker, equip. Opponent plays vortex again, sadness x3. I flicker it a couple times and close the game out anyways.
1-0
Round 2; Grixis Delver 2-0
I remember very little. Game one he probes then plays delver, then cabal therapies hitting 2 SFM. Thalia mk 1 ends up being taxing enough with revoker on DRS that I eventually get there.
In: 2 Rest in Peace
Out: 1 Flickerwisp, 1 Serra Avenger
Wanted some extra hedge against DRS and assumed he had anglers in main
Game two was hilarious though. My opponent ends up dropping 4 DRS at one point, but lost two to a Thalia heretic cathar as he triple blocked while I had a plow in hand. Ends up being super grindy as my opponent draws air and I do as well.
2-0
Round 3: Elves 2-1
I sit down at table one feeling pretty good. Feeling ends quickly
Game 1, plays DRS of a forest, I put him on bug so I swords it. He untaps and plays Nettle Sentinel and Sadness sets in. I die a horrible painful death on turn 4
In: 2 Canonists, 2 Containment Priests
Out: 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Easy cuts here
Game 2 have an opener of Mom plus double Canonist, made a mistake but it ends up slowing the game down long enough for me to find Jitte and close it out.
In: 2 Path to Exiles
Out: 1 Flickerwisp, 1 Crusader
Wanted the removal thinking it might be good if I can snag a crucial elf
Game 3, hand has canonist, sfm, mom, vial, path, and 2 lands. Seems good. Opponent goes forest Elvish mystic. I go into the tank, play a plains and pass, pathing in his upkeep. He declines to search. He misses his second land drop and goes sentinel go. I play my canonist and pass turn, he plays another sentinel and a gaea's cradle and passes. I waste his cradle drop sfm grabbing jitte and two turns later I close out the game. Got about as lucky as can be
3-0
Two win and ins, win one and can draw in.
Round 4: Death and Taxes 0-2
Not a lot to talk about here, mulled in both games, opponent found jitte first and the games ended quickly
3-1
Round 5: Dredge (Joseph Moreno) 0-2
Had some fun banter while playing praying to dodge the breakthrough.
Game one, didn't dodge the breakthrough, died fast
In: 3 Rest in Peace, 2 Containment Priest, 2 Ethersworn Canonist
Out: 3 Revokers, 1 flickerwisp, 2 crusaders, 1 Avenger
Draw hate or lose
Game 2, mull once due to no lander. Hand has canonist, good enough I guess to buy me some turns as Moreno doesn't play combo with dread return and grinds instead. He hits a lot of land drops, I make a couple of misplays, he makes a couple of misplays, I trade my batterskull for 3 bridges, but he already has 6 zombies. Jitte gets decayed, and I never see a second piece of hate.
3-2
Can't top 8, but 9th gets picks so Living the dream, and my two losses both topped.
Round 6: Moggcatcher 1-2
Game 1 he gets the play, chalice on one, chalice on 2, and blood moon turn 3. I resolve a revoker on chrome mox with cavern, and was looking good until he top decks moggcatcher. Try to grind for a few more turns, get a 2 SFM, and a Revoker to resolve under his chalices, and lose anyways
In: 2 Gideon Ally of Zendikar, 1 Needle, 2 Council's Judgment
Out: 4 Thalia guardian of thraben, 1 flickerwisp
Thought hard about bringing in priests but decided against it as I think vial is too important here, and I have other outs to moggcatcher
Game 2, opponent mulls to 5, I drop vial on the play, he goes mountain, and I hard cast a SFM getting Jitte, he gets vial on 1 for his turn 2, I vial in mom. Turn 3 he drops Magus of the moon, I vial in Avenger and put jitte into play, and that closes out the game in a few turns killing his moggcatcher then his magus before he scoops
Game 3, opponent mulls to 5 again, unfortunate. Turn 1 mountain go, I do nothing but play a land. Turn two he chalices on one. I play revoker and pass, turn 3 does nothing but a land. I go turn 3 wasteland. Turn 4 he plays a land again jitte, I go into Thalia heretic Cathar and get in for 2 again. Turn 5 he again does nothing. I Play gideon on turn 5 make a knight and get in for 5 putting him to 11. turn 5 he plays simian spirit guide hard cast and equips. I swing for 11 with gideon and finishes the set.
4-2
Deck felt good, got a misty for 9th at least which was nice, and the thalia heretic cathars felt really good. Maybe I make some space in sideboard for some warping wails, but no incidents came up for me where I would think I needed them
Cavern of Souls, Plains, Plains, Flickerwisp, Swords to Plowshares, Swords to Plowshares, AEther Vial.
Is that keepable? I feel it's reasonably strong against creature based decks, but doesn't do much against Miracles and unfair decks.
Did your opponent keep his seven? Even if he did, I'd still likely keep this on the draw. You're likely to topdeck into better stuff, since DnT is that kind of deck. With Vial and Plowshares, you have something to do in the early turns no matter what, and worst-case scenario, you have an uncounterable 3-clock with evasion on turn 3. If you assume "unknown opponent" is just "Legacy Value.dec" - which I do - then it's aggro, control, or aggro-control. This hand is bad against most combo decks, but combo is ~20% of the meta on a given day. If ~4% is Elves, then this hand is practically useless only a sixth of the time, and likely relevant enough the other ~84%.
Now, this hand isn't what I would call "good" against Elves, but if you find yourself in a surprise matchup against the deck, a Vial hand with 2 Plowshares is not the worst thing to have, and is certainly serviceable enough, especially considering what little we have to work with in game 1. You have your first two turns mapped out, and you get 3 chances to draw a relevant card to continue the halt. I'd take those odds against Elves in game 1. Beggars cannot be choosers for that one.
I'd also keep this hand against Miracles, because consider: is the hand keepable as a 6-card hand, just minus the worst card? If the answer is yes, then it's likely keepable. Now, this question applies more to a Brainstorm deck, since you can count bad cards as potential good cards later, but that's ok. DnT on game 1 attempts to cast a very wide net. When I lose a very quick game 1, it's likely because I kept a value hand like this one and my opponent ended up being on combo, or my "net" was perhaps a bit narrow, and also thrown in the wrong direction. No sweat. The sideboard will be full of focused taxes for the other 2. Just play your odds and hope for the best.
Back to Miracles, I'd consider this hand a keeper, because using my question from above, is Plains, Plains, Cavern, Vial, Plow, Wisp a keepable hand? I mean, I'd keep almost any Vial hand against Miracles, but one that also has Cavern?! Now you're just teasing.
More likely than not, you will topdeck enough threats that this slow, creature-hate-heavy hand will blossom into a good playable one because it's foundational in nature. But-- short of a weird Sinkhole-meta, you know you will make your third land drop on time, you have multiple shots to stop Delver, Goyf, or any other quick beater, and you have potential to draw yourself into some acceleration via Vial fuel. It's not a great hand by any means (though maybe against Delver decks, it is), but it'll do if you can reasonably expect your opponent to be on a "fair" deck.
Note: I'd add as a caveat facing down Eldrazi with a Chalice opener that this one might not be the greatest, but a) you have Wisp to flip it, hopefully in time to Plow 2 guys on turn 4, and b) because absent a Chalice opener from Eldrazi, this hand is pretty great.
Oh. My. God. It's happening. It's really happening. Article coming later tonight.
Creature - Human Soldier
When *name* enters the battlefield, search library for creature with toughness 2 or less, put into hand.
1/1
Fighting for more slots? I like that they did toughness since we always malign that we always get x/1's
Top 64 Legacy Open SCG: Dallas/FortWorth 2013
SCG Open Trial (2013): 1st
Pre-ordering for a whopping <strike>$20</strike> $15 on SCG. Can't decide if that's overpriced considering how much the set will be opened, or if it's a bargain considering it's an on-color Imperial Recruiter.
Either way, I'm grabbing a paper bag to breathe into.
You beat me to it, just woke up and saw this. I feel like im dreaming
Can you link the preorder page? original conspiracy was in small supply around here
Linky linky: http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=1259875
White recruiter. Real hype.
Nah. I've already been on Imperial D&T for years now :P.
The only change I'm making is swapping out imperial recruiter for this guy. It's better 100% (being able to get flickerwhisps too now!? *drool*)
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I can't fathom how strong this card it. It's certainly strong, but its hard to immediately recognize the potential this soon.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash