MTG Salvation

The more I think about this, the more dumb, corner-case scenarios I come up with where this interacts with an opponent's deck in a dumb way.

Quote from Medea »

The more I think about this, the more dumb, corner-case scenarios I come up with where this interacts with an opponent's deck in a dumb way.

The durdlier the card, the better it is for this deck.

Eldazi Displacer might replace spellskite for me. The card is f-kin ridiculous. Either that or I'll find a maindeck spot for it that doesn't get rid of the skite (3 mana is steep, and being good against infect is something I value). All of the combat tricks it does. All of the flickerwisp tricks. Not to mention that wit 6 mana your miracles opponent cannot boardwhipe you.

Quote from monovfox »

Not to mention that wit 6 mana your miracles opponent cannot boardwhipe you.

No, that's not the case. The effect works just like Restoration Angel, in that it brings the card right back into play as part of the ability resolving. So, it does make single-target removal fizzle, but sweepers like Terminus or Pyroclasm will still resolve with their intended effect. The card looks like fun, and may be serviceable because of it's P/T, but it's not a wunderkind.

With flickerwisp. Should have mentioned that (you'd play 4 flickerwisp in this version, so not a pipe dream)

Playing a bit with Eldrazi Displacer as a 2 of. Testing has been sparse but what immediately jumped out to me is that it changes how I play the deck. With only 8 colorless sources, 4 of which we like to blow up (wasteland), I haven't had much chance to use the ability as I would have liked AND keep our typical mana denial game plan. If I use wasteland aggressively, I do not have the ability to make use of the flicker ability in the early-mid game. 3 (one being colorless) mana is a lot. I find myself tempted to keep the colorless mana up for flicker tricks, which is not an optimal use of port or wasteland. IMO, the mana denial plan should remain priority #1. Instead of thinking of it as a a flickerwisp on a stick, I may need to think of it as a 3/3 beater for 3 that, on occasion, becomes a pseudo flickerwisp when the game goes long. While 3/3 beats are fine at all points of the game, to use it optimally we may have to add additional colorless sources of mana.

If anyone is proxying it up for testing, please share your results.

cavern of souls and mishra's factory are both additional colorless sources. If you're in splash version you can also run painlands because they produce colorless. If one is using the colorless lands plan we also got a nice little removal spell out of this next set that can get around swords and mom.

Amazing isn't it how the pain lands have become Tri-Lands with the advent of Eldrazi mana.

Quote from monovfox »

With flickerwisp. Should have mentioned that (you'd play 4 flickerwisp in this version, so not a pipe dream)

Gotcha. Well what is cool is that if you did have a Wisp on the board, you'd just get instant flickers for 3 mana. So likely, you could use it to have Displacer save itself from Terminus, which is certainly handy, and if you had 6 mana, you could save Displacer and another creature that isn't the Wisp. So the upside is there, for sure. I do have to agree with this, however:

Quote from Wynk »

IMO, the mana denial plan should remain priority #1.

This is something I'm always keeping focus of, even with splash builds, and with that in mind, I can forsee a lot of situations where you think Porting is the right call, but instead get blown out by a removal you could've prevented, or in the reverse manner, you leave your Port up to protect against removal and it gives your opponent just enough mana to cast some mid-game sized threat instead. So to that end, it's probably sideboard material for attrition control decks, because there isn't really a lot of success to be had with mana denial against Miracles, Shardless BUG, or Jund anyway. Once in a while you get the vise grip and squeeze, but they are usually resilient to our land hate past the first 4 turns.

While we may have 8 sources of eldrazi mana, remember wasteland isn't going to be reliable as we are wasting targets left and right. I want Displacer to be good but I don't think the deck can rely on using its ability early to mid game unless we up the sources of colorless mana. That may lead to suboptimal deck construction just to support 1 card. At the same time, I want this to be good. Having this in play with flickerwisp and 3 mana up makes it hard to lose the attrition matchups and the mirror.

I like Displacer for mono-white much more than I ever liked Wingmare. I wonder if it's enough to put mono-white back in the sights of D&T enthusiasts, who generally seem to prefer splash builds. It still perplexes me that the pros always go mono-white, so if nothing else it will be interesting to see if and how they integrate this card. Given the mana-intensive and colorless nature of the card, does it make more sense in the Dust Bowl/Restoration Angel build?

Anyway, the black splash looks really neat too. Has a Library analogue in Bob, Teeg analogues in discard, and several Sudden Demise analogues. In short, they're yet other ways of patching mono-white's holes. I've actually gotten bitten by nonbasic hate before playing the Green splash, but that's probably due to my lack of experience. Anyway it and Displacer explain my renewed interest in mono-white.

Yes I think the 24 land Dust Bowl Resto build is a better fit for the new guy. I will certainly be testing it in that shell. There's also the 1-of reverse Library of Alexandria that I'll be testing there too.

Cavern of Souls doesn't look too optimal because you still need white mana to cast the creature in the first place, you can't always rely on having Vial in play.

I wonder if this new eldrazi would work best in a leonin arbiter build with extra lands including ghost quarters. I remember a few of those builds doing well a while back.

Quote from Curby »

Anyway, the black splash looks really neat too. Has a Library analogue in Bob,

Been meaning to post regarding Bob in general, especially as it pertains to how I'm approaching playing with him, and invite any other Bob players from other decks who read here to chime in on some of the ins and outs of the card.

First off, the card is exceptional for this deck. I've yet to blind reveal a Batterskull and take the hit for 5 with him yet, and I'm sure with enough games under my belt, it will eventually happen, but the main point to keep in mind is that every card DnT already has is "worth" the life hit. Flickwisp/Mirran Crusader are the biggest common pings, and since they both beat for at least 3, the -3 life is, at the least, a fair trade. On the other hand, the lowest ping of -1 for say, a Vial, is also worth it at pretty much all times. If you want a Vial, well great(!), you now have one, and if you don't, well there's not many spots I can think of where I wouldn't pay a life to get a redo on a terrible late-game topdeck.

Second, far as how I'm usually prioritizing our CMC2 guys, I find I am all too happy to have Thalia or Mystic be the removal bait, and play Bob second. Against a deck where you know Bob will live once he hits - like against MUD or Enchantress, for example - he's potentially a better throw down over Thalia, game-state depending. Overall though, I still find Thalia to be the safer of the turn 2 plays, because usually the opponent spends his entire turn's resources getting rid of her, so the baiting also did something as opposed to just being a lure.

I'll take 2x Bobs out vs. Delver, probably all of them vs. Burn, and when I absolutely need room for sideboard stuff, he might get shaved to 3 occasionally against general aggro, but he's usually good enough to leave in.

One thing I've found is that you can stack your Bob trigger on top of the "you may add a counter" Vial trigger, so in the case where you don't know if you should tick up to 3 for Wisp, you might get a sneak peak of one coming and now you know it's the right play; otherwise, just don't add the counter when the reveal is Mystic instead.

So yea, I hope Displacer is good, but far as attrition matchups go, he's no Bob.

Thoughts on the new colorless charm as anti-Natural Order/Show and Tell/Terminus tech? Also hits dark confidant, death rite shamans, moms, thalias, elves and unflipped delvers.

Warping Wail 1C
Instant (U)
Choose one -
-Exile target creature with power or toughness 1 or less.
-Counter target sorcery spell.
-Put a 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature token onto the battlefield. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C to your mana pool."

Quote from Wynk »

Thoughts on the new colorless charm as anti-Natural Order/Show and Tell/Terminus tech? Also hits dark confidant, death rite shamans, moms, thalias, elves and unflipped delvers.

Warping Wail 1C
Instant (U)
Choose one -
-Exile target creature with power or toughness 1 or less.
-Counter target sorcery spell.
-Put a 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature token onto the battlefield. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C to your mana pool."

It also doesn't hit Tasigur, Tarmogoyf most of the time, a flipped Delver, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Goblin Guide, anything in Sneak & Show, Reanimator or 12-Post... even Sunlance can hit Delver, Eidolon and Guide.

Containment Priest nerfs Natural Order/Show and Tell, Gaddock Teeg nerfs Terminus and Natural Order, and doesn't need us to keep 1C free, usually just a Vial on 2.

I don't mind holding W open for StP, but holding back 1C... I dunno. I rather run Eldrazi Displacer than this, since it's at least recurrable, and then let some of our white sideboard cards deal with the problematic sorceries. How many colorless lands in addition to Wasteland and Port would you need to support this?

The Scion token could be interesting for ramp, plus enabling C for those who want to go that rout. And it is colorless, so it dodges any color protection, so that's nifty.

The more I think about it, the less I like it (actually I love it, but not for this deck), and the more I think it could cause problems for us -- it hits everything currently in the main deck besides Serra Avenger, Brimaz, or equipped creatures (decks with splashes are a little more resilient), and ignores Mom. I don't know if 12-Post or MUD have a need for this, but it's there for them now.

If people start running Wails to attack D&T, that's another place where Displacers can help out.

As you say, this is a great card if you're playing other colors and need off-color disruption. Probably not in this deck though. There's not much that has protection against our existing options (StP/PtE/Sunlance/etc.), not to mention we have colorless removal already (SoFI, Jitte).

I'd sooner try Displacers if I was going to experiment with C costs.

Quote from Curby »

...It still perplexes me that the pros always go mono-white, so if nothing else it will be interesting to see if and how they integrate this card...

Pros are actually slow-adopters, and have been especially so with DnT. I think Brad Nelson was first, if I remember right.

J

I really like Warping Wail. It is great against every card we care about in Elves and it hits the only card we care about in Omni. And a few more. Also, having access to a counterspell in this deck is going to be all kinds of stupid. Seriously, from the ability to counter Ancestral Vision to simply leaving open two mana while I have an unused Port, is it REALLY a good time to see if Terminus goes through? Just having that card opens avenues to jedi your way to victory. I think you guys are going to outright love a card that at once acts as extra removal in a deck that is kinda light while simultaneously giving us an actual counter. Seriously, all the cards that hurt us the most are sorceries. Heck, you can even seriously knock out ANT with yet another avenue - counter Massacre, or the Tutor, or just I dunno Past in Flames or something.

I wonder how it would affect sequencing. If you get a Thalia out, which I imagine is still the best first 2-drop against most decks, your counterspell now costs 3. Much like my earlier descriptions of Sylvan Library, it seems to be a turn 4+ option rather than something we're going to rely on jamming the second we hit two land. Between this and Displacer though, we have two new options that promise highly versatile applications and interactions with other effects. Neat stuff.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the metagame or current builds they would like to share? I've got an IQ next weekend, and I haven't played in the last 3 or 4 weeks due to winter break plans and travel.

The real estate tournament I went to recently had a decent amount of miracles, delver and infect. There was also a decent amount of 12 post but that was CT where you have Jeremiah Rudolf and his disciples so I wouldn't expect that.

Where are you playing? Baltimore is pretty odd, so I end up playing frequently against Stoneblade, Lands, Storm, Dredge, and Reanimator as much as against Grixis DRS Delver, Miracles, and Elves. Typical small presence of Infect, Show and Tell, BUG Delver and the mirror. I very rarely see 12 Post, Painter, RUG Delver, UR Delver, Maverick, Shardless BUG, Burn, Goblins, Merfolk or Jund, so I keep some singleton sideboard tech for them. I don't see any of the Belcher/Oops All Spells type decks, so I don't worry about those too much and figure that Chalice will have to do work.

I've been having good success with the following list:



In the main, 9 flyers are great. I could have 11 because the 2 SotL are taking up the spots that would be the 4th Vryn Wingmare and Flickerwisp, but I like the card as a two-of in my locals. I have not missed Mirran Crusader as opposed to the 3rd Serra Avenger. My curve is quite low and I rarely tick Vial up to 3 unless I have a 3-drop in hand.

Sideboard, I like the ET with double Canonist/RiP more than taking those to 3-ofs. Multiple games I have had ET in hand and my opponent uses Cabal Therapy and names RiP or Canonist, and obviously I make them sad. Plus, it allows me to grab most of the rest of my sideboard in certain matches.

Absolute Law has been for Punishing Fire in Lands plus Grixis Delver, plus it is there if I see Burn or Jund. I've been very happy with it as tech.

Seal of Cleansing is tech for random Brown decks, but also Stoneblade, the mirror, and even Lands because they run several enchantments you want out of the way.

Chalice is there for all of the combo I face, especially Storm, Elves, and Reanimator, but it is great against any deck where putting it on 0 or 1 is the way to go (UG Infect) or where my removal is not terribly relevant (Burn).

I chose Mangara because I think it is better than Council's Judgment except where I am facing TNN decks, and I don't see much of that except Stoneblade, and that I can race as long as I can destroy their equipment. I do wish I had the 4th Flickerwisp for Mangara, but it's okay, I still have 6 ways to bounce him.

The rest is pretty obvious, IMO.

Quote from SwordsToTimeshares »

Top 8'ed a 31-man today with this pile, very similar to what I posted a page back:

Dark and TaxesMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Mother of Runes 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 4 Stoneforge Mystic 4 Flickerwisp 4 Dark Confidant 2 Serra Avenger 1 Mirran Crusader 4 Aether Vial 4 Swords to Plowshares 3 Thoughtseize 1 Sword of Fire and Ice 1 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Batterskull	4 Wasteland 4 Rishadan Port 3 Windswept Heath 3 Flooded Strand 3 Karakas 4 Scrubland 2 Snow-Covered Plains	Sideboard 2 Rest in Peace 2 Orzhov Pontiff 2 Containment Priest 2 Ethersworn Canonist 2 Phyrexian Revoker 1 Vindicate 1 Pithing Needle 1 Thoughtseize 1 Relic of Progenitus 1 Bitterblossom

OMG Vindicate was great all day. I'm considering just swapping him for Mirran Crusader's spot. I hit lands with it twice at crucial moments, one basic even. I'm sold that Bob and Thoughtseize have a home in this deck shell. Black just feels... strong. Ultimately got knocked out by Jund, but what can ya do? It's still a "fair" white weenie deck, so that one just has your number sometimes. Nevertheless, I can't wait to get this build back into action again.

How have you been doing with the black splash since this post? I've sleeved it up and will play a few matches this week. The only thing I love as much as mana denial is Dark Confidant

How have the changes affected your match ups so far, vs Sneak and Show and Miracles in particular? My main concern is the lack of MD Revokers.

Quote from Medea »

Does anyone have any thoughts on the metagame or current builds they would like to share? I've got an IQ next weekend, and I haven't played in the last 3 or 4 weeks due to winter break plans and travel.

All I know is that I have to buy some foil Eldrazi Displacers and Sea Gate Wreckage. Got some neat ideas I really want to put into practice.