I'm going to have to agree that I dislike the idea of running it, since that shuts down vial for match ups we already have a decent pairing against. The only real match up it makes any sense in is the dredge match up.
I'm going to have to agree that I dislike the idea of running it, since that shuts down vial for match ups we already have a decent pairing against. The only real match up it makes any sense in is the dredge match up.
We need both spirit and containment to actually stop them, they still have discard in their board as well as abrupt decay to stop us from doing this. They still do pretty well at hating on our hate. All they do as they have done to me many of times in the past is decay the spirit, then combo off on their turn. I know most people forget this but... elves can still combo out their entire library faster than we can drop all this hate for them, it is simply easier now that they have craterhoof to order into. I suppose it gives us extra hate, but I recently had a board state of revoker, revoker, spirit, linvala, jitte active and they still were able to decay EoT decay spirit, then with cradle and glimpse my opponent proceeded to combo out into hard cast craterhoof and kill me...
We need both spirit and containment to actually stop them, they still have discard in their board as well as abrupt decay to stop us from doing this. They still do pretty well at hating on our hate. All they do as they have done to me many of times in the past is decay the spirit, then combo off on their turn. I know most people forget this but... elves can still combo out their entire library faster than we can drop all this hate for them, it is simply easier now that they have craterhoof to order into. I suppose it gives us extra hate, but I recently had a board state of revoker, revoker, spirit, linvala, jitte active and they still were able to decay EoT decay spirit, then with cradle and glimpse my opponent proceeded to combo out into hard cast craterhoof and kill me...
This is a pretty bad argument for not playing Priest. If you have a Priest and either a Spirit or a Canonist in play, Elves will have a hard time finding answers. This kind of "well they run removal so X is obviously terrible" theory is not how to analyze card potential in this deck. It has been said before, with Thalia and Revoker and then the results came in.
Your opponent has to answer your card. That's what we're looking for: not a card that they can remove but a card they must remove.
I also don't think one game where Elves managed to pull off a hat trick is a substantial enough argument for the validity of certain cards.
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I think it applies, I'm just not sure if it's our end all be all card to beat elves. That seems to be the sentiment of many thus far.
Well, to clarify, I don't think it is. However, it is harder for them to interact with and it does definitely match our plan of multiple hate pieces attacking them at once.
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"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
This is very true. I guess all the help we can get in the match up. Plus it does have applications in other match ups. It's nice to have extra hate to prevent decks like sneak and show as well as reanimater from getting the upper hand.
I can see Miracles run Containment Priest in the SB. I hope that she does not hinder us more than help us...
In regards to Flickerwisp, does the ETB trigger at all with the Priest in game?
The target will flicker and come back but with priest on the field it will exile itself. Flickerwisp becomes a pseudo swords to plowshares as long as priest is on the field so be careful not to use it on your creatures.
-If you have the priest out and you vial in a Flickerwisp, you do not get the flicker ability.
-If the priest turns out to be spectacular, you do not take out any Aether Vials. You definitely run them both.
-It being a 2/2 is a (good) big deal.
-I can hardly believe that this card has Flash. Way cool.
-If you flash this in in response to Natural Order against Elves, they better hope thay have another Behemoth or you WIN.
-This card obviously has excellent application against
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack
the entire Reanimator deck
the entire Dredge deck
Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
That is a big chunk of the format, and it does something that no other card does. I would be astounded if this chick did not have a significant role to play in D+T. But...
This card is unlikely to solve our issues against Elves. But it might make it a little better. I think this is likely the single best card against Elves that we will have access to. But against Elves you typically get a single piece of hate before they go off. I think that I would like to have this one rather than any other. But what we would really like is to land a piee of hate on turn 1 and another on turn 2. And we already have a lot of turn 2 hate available while having few turn 1 options. We have several cards that all essentially shut off Zenith and Order
I have been liking Cage because it comes down turn 1 and prevents Zenith and Order. I can't see having this new card and the Cage in the sideboard, so there is a hard decision to make. Or perhaps we go all in against Elves and pack four of each! That is what I mean when I say this is not the answer to our issues against Elves.
Flashing the containment guy will just result in a fail to find if your opponent isn't completely stupid. So he isn't thinning anything out of a good elves players deck, but he is definitely still very disruptive and helps buy us turns which we do need. He could possibly replace rest in peace in the board.
If you've been playing Teeg, Containment Priest does nothing that Teeg doesn't already do except with Show and Tell. Let's also not forget that Dredge, Reanimator, and Show and Tell are kind of fringe in numbers right now, so it's a sideboard card at best, whereas I'm still surprised at Teeg's maindeck viability (but I guess I'm one of only a few who've stuck it out in testing besides maybe Red Twister).
The biggest thing is it stops Natural Order and Zenith, which again, Teeg also does. Testing will tell, but my gut instinct says that the advantage of Flash is pretty much a wash with the disadvantage of shutting off our Vials subsequently.
Plus, Priest doesn't shut off Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. Cute toy, but I really wish it were instead an Artifact or Enchantment creature than a Flash creature.
Karakas is mostly there for our our tricks and protecting our legendary creature, it just so happens that it works really well for us in 2 combo match ups that would otherwise be terrible for us should our opponents have the right counter magic or a brand to draw the right answers.
I am with SwordsToTimeshares on Gaddock Teeg. It has so much value for me right now because it harms Elves, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time decks, and Miracles, which is everything I want a card to do right now.
Containment Priest is very interesting tech and I like Finn's assessment and Barook's insight on it's value with Flickerwisp. I think the problem remains that if we add it to the sideboard, do we have other tech we don't want that we can afford to drop?
Like Finn, I am very big on having a turn 1 option for Dredge and Reanimator, but also Elves, which means I am loathe to drop Grafdigger's Cage.
Ethersworn Canonist is critical for combo matches where casting more than one spell per turn is critical, including Elves. I don't see going below 2 unless I am committing to Chalice of the Void.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is best against BUG Delver and Jund. Is that enough of a threat at the moment to keep it in? Is it more important than additional combo hate? Is this our -2 or at least a -1?
Rest in Peace is a must-have against Tarmogoyf decks and graveyard decks. It is okay against Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time decks, but only some of them. I don't think I would bring them in automatically against UR and UWR, but RUG, 4 color, and BUG, heck yeah. 2-of and not moving.
Council's Judgment or an effect like it seems high value. Could we go to 1?
Until burn and UR Delver go away, I want anti-burn/anti-R. That is my critical elective hate right now.
Pithing Needle is such value in so many matches that it feels right as a 1-of as a default decision, but maybe it isn't as crucial, especially if we run the next card.
Manriki-Gusari is not only good versus the mirror, but against any other deck using equipment and let's face it, Stoneforge Mystic is going to come back with UWR Delver and I expect people to try and find ways to improve Stoneblade and Deathblade.
I like extra single creature removal, like Sunlance and Gut Shot, but I don't know if they are enough value.
Ratchet Bomb, Holy Light, Cataclysm, and Engineered Explosives are all valid choices, but I haven't exactly enjoyed any of them recently (and frankly I don't feel the need for Cataclysm vs. Miracles running Gaddock Teeg. Also, none of them is really good enough against UR Delver, which is the other place I want a sweeper. Of course, Ratchet Bomb is great against 0 cmc stuff and I would run it as a 1-of if I wanted any of these at the moment.
In general, with the addition of Containment Priest, I like the fact that we can slam 2-3 SotL, 2 Canonist, 2 ET, 0-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3 Phyrexian Revoker, and 1 Grafdigger's Cage for the Elves match. That is much better than before, where we had no SotL main, no Gaddock Teeg, and then a lot of sideboard hate.
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Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
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Edit: re read ang. Didn't remember it only flickered ours.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
What? Why only the dredge matchup?
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Elves. Elves. Elves.
This is a pretty bad argument for not playing Priest. If you have a Priest and either a Spirit or a Canonist in play, Elves will have a hard time finding answers. This kind of "well they run removal so X is obviously terrible" theory is not how to analyze card potential in this deck. It has been said before, with Thalia and Revoker and then the results came in.
Your opponent has to answer your card. That's what we're looking for: not a card that they can remove but a card they must remove.
I also don't think one game where Elves managed to pull off a hat trick is a substantial enough argument for the validity of certain cards.
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Well, to clarify, I don't think it is. However, it is harder for them to interact with and it does definitely match our plan of multiple hate pieces attacking them at once.
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Currently playing:
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes(Rest in Peace)EDH
RR Krenko, Mob Boss
WW Thalia, Heretic Cathar
The target will flicker and come back but with priest on the field it will exile itself. Flickerwisp becomes a pseudo swords to plowshares as long as priest is on the field so be careful not to use it on your creatures.
-If you have the priest out and you vial in a Flickerwisp, you do not get the flicker ability.
-If the priest turns out to be spectacular, you do not take out any Aether Vials. You definitely run them both.
-It being a 2/2 is a (good) big deal.
-I can hardly believe that this card has Flash. Way cool.
-If you flash this in in response to Natural Order against Elves, they better hope thay have another Behemoth or you WIN.
-This card obviously has excellent application against
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack
the entire Reanimator deck
the entire Dredge deck
Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
That is a big chunk of the format, and it does something that no other card does. I would be astounded if this chick did not have a significant role to play in D+T. But...
This card is unlikely to solve our issues against Elves. But it might make it a little better. I think this is likely the single best card against Elves that we will have access to. But against Elves you typically get a single piece of hate before they go off. I think that I would like to have this one rather than any other. But what we would really like is to land a piee of hate on turn 1 and another on turn 2. And we already have a lot of turn 2 hate available while having few turn 1 options. We have several cards that all essentially shut off Zenith and Order
Grafdigger's Cage
Containment Priest
Aven Mindcensor
I have been liking Cage because it comes down turn 1 and prevents Zenith and Order. I can't see having this new card and the Cage in the sideboard, so there is a hard decision to make. Or perhaps we go all in against Elves and pack four of each! That is what I mean when I say this is not the answer to our issues against Elves.
The biggest thing is it stops Natural Order and Zenith, which again, Teeg also does. Testing will tell, but my gut instinct says that the advantage of Flash is pretty much a wash with the disadvantage of shutting off our Vials subsequently.
Plus, Priest doesn't shut off Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. Cute toy, but I really wish it were instead an Artifact or Enchantment creature than a Flash creature.
Yes.
Containment Priest is very interesting tech and I like Finn's assessment and Barook's insight on it's value with Flickerwisp. I think the problem remains that if we add it to the sideboard, do we have other tech we don't want that we can afford to drop?
Like Finn, I am very big on having a turn 1 option for Dredge and Reanimator, but also Elves, which means I am loathe to drop Grafdigger's Cage.
Ethersworn Canonist is critical for combo matches where casting more than one spell per turn is critical, including Elves. I don't see going below 2 unless I am committing to Chalice of the Void.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is best against BUG Delver and Jund. Is that enough of a threat at the moment to keep it in? Is it more important than additional combo hate? Is this our -2 or at least a -1?
Rest in Peace is a must-have against Tarmogoyf decks and graveyard decks. It is okay against Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time decks, but only some of them. I don't think I would bring them in automatically against UR and UWR, but RUG, 4 color, and BUG, heck yeah. 2-of and not moving.
Council's Judgment or an effect like it seems high value. Could we go to 1?
Until burn and UR Delver go away, I want anti-burn/anti-R. That is my critical elective hate right now.
Pithing Needle is such value in so many matches that it feels right as a 1-of as a default decision, but maybe it isn't as crucial, especially if we run the next card.
Manriki-Gusari is not only good versus the mirror, but against any other deck using equipment and let's face it, Stoneforge Mystic is going to come back with UWR Delver and I expect people to try and find ways to improve Stoneblade and Deathblade.
I like extra single creature removal, like Sunlance and Gut Shot, but I don't know if they are enough value.
Ratchet Bomb, Holy Light, Cataclysm, and Engineered Explosives are all valid choices, but I haven't exactly enjoyed any of them recently (and frankly I don't feel the need for Cataclysm vs. Miracles running Gaddock Teeg. Also, none of them is really good enough against UR Delver, which is the other place I want a sweeper. Of course, Ratchet Bomb is great against 0 cmc stuff and I would run it as a 1-of if I wanted any of these at the moment.
In general, with the addition of Containment Priest, I like the fact that we can slam 2-3 SotL, 2 Canonist, 2 ET, 0-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3 Phyrexian Revoker, and 1 Grafdigger's Cage for the Elves match. That is much better than before, where we had no SotL main, no Gaddock Teeg, and then a lot of sideboard hate.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.