[Deck] BUG Control

  • #118
    Yeah, practicing with the deck can make a difference even if you only have time to just get a couple of matches in before a tournament. A little practice is definitely better then not practicing at all.

    On another note, I would probably go with Garruck relentless too if I was going to include another planeswalker in here besides Jace and Lilianna.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #119
    I pretty much went back to the Vestal list. It works better as a hybrid deck and as more tap out like. No Garruk. Its fine as is slow and grindy. Innocent blood is really important as its cheap, escapes spell snare, beats shroud, beats reanimator, pro color. Don't take it out. CTPit is priceless at beating other walkers. The counterspell suite is whatever. Best to have diversity backed up by the best removal in the format outside of story.
  • #120
    The deck doesn't need to be sped up. Wasting slots on speedy cards makes the deck weaker. Garruk is no where near as good a win con as Jace, and you have manlands + Loam or Crucible to set up the inevitable win as well. The smart opponent will scoop once your inevitable win is in place in order to conserve time to win games 2 and 3. Otherwise you'll go 1-0-1 against inexperienced opponents. The only thing I really worry about is Surgical Extraction on each win con. Bringing in your own Surgicals to remove theirs might not be bad. Plus Surgical is great in long grindy games anyway to give you an incremental advantage by removing their best cards.

    Tombstalker out of the side might not be terrible, as most opponents will take out creature removal against you and you can steal a quick game if you lose a long game 1.

    Both Garruks are probably much better in Nic Fit than this deck. In fact, I've always thought Nic Fit could be a successful BUG deck anyway, so maybe you could look into that. Big Garruk will be a better card drawer for you in that deck and Evil Garruk's flipped abilities will be much more relevant as well.
    Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
    U Merfolk U
    U G W NO Bant U G W
    U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
    Other Legacy Decks I Own:
    R G W Zoo! R G W
    B G W Junk B G W
    R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
    B W Deadguy B W
    W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
    G W Green & Taxes G W
    B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
    EDH Generals/Decks:
    Glissa
    Momir Vig
    Brion Stoutarm
    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    Arcum Daggson
  • #121
    anyone excited about the killing wave card coming up in AVR? Seems like it might make a super-efficient sweeper against aggro, not sure if it deserves MB spot though...

    also, what sort of deck should i board raven's crime against? i understand all the other choices, but i am never quite sure what i want to raven's crime against.... (i assume it's for the loam/crime combo) same for vendilion clique :/
    Legacy
    0WUBAffinity0WUB
    GCombo ElvesG
    WUBStonebladeWUB

    Modern
    0WUBChapin's Fear(Affinity)0WUB

    WGRUKiki Pod (AKA the sexiest deck ever)WGRU


    Standard
    RBRakdos AggroBR
  • #122
    Killing Wave might be playable, but what is X going to equal, 3-5 at most? Gives the opponent a choice, which is always bad as they'll do whatever puts them in the best position. If it isn't better than Damnation, it isn't good enough, and I don't think it is.

    Raven's Crime, personally I like this against control decks as it's basically uncounterable and can do away with their hand full of counters and the like. It can also be good against certain combo decks (not Reanimator, please!) but too slow for others.
    Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
    U Merfolk U
    U G W NO Bant U G W
    U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
    Other Legacy Decks I Own:
    R G W Zoo! R G W
    B G W Junk B G W
    R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
    B W Deadguy B W
    W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
    G W Green & Taxes G W
    B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
    EDH Generals/Decks:
    Glissa
    Momir Vig
    Brion Stoutarm
    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    Arcum Daggson
  • #123
    Killing wave is garbage because it gives your opponent options. No. I choose to deed your board on my terms. You don't choose. I do. Its also uneccessary. You don't more removal. This deck has ridiculous board control. Its fine as is honestly. Tweek as needed for a Meta. I have a hard time believing this deck can't handle most things. Aside from burn but whatever. If I find that burn decks are on the rise then its time to do something.
  • #124
    Agreed, Killing Wave is less than garbage. Probably not even playable in standard or limited, unless you have a super aggressive limited deck.


    Come Play Mafia With Us | CA Bay Area Community Thread | Play Modern With Us

    Quote from ganderin_dan

    You guys should be following Tom around like he's Moses or something.
  • #125
    OK, come on, it's pretty effing good in limited. It's probably also a good, or at least fun, card in EDH.
    Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
    U Merfolk U
    U G W NO Bant U G W
    U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
    Other Legacy Decks I Own:
    R G W Zoo! R G W
    B G W Junk B G W
    R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
    B W Deadguy B W
    W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
    G W Green & Taxes G W
    B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
    EDH Generals/Decks:
    Glissa
    Momir Vig
    Brion Stoutarm
    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    Arcum Daggson
  • #126
    Ok, but so what lol. I wish there was better non come into play tapped manlands for this deck, that would make me happy. Or some reasonable recursive flying thing that has 5 attack power.

    I can feel Burn with Vexing Devil is going to be up and coming. So, I do think this deck will need a way to gain life in the sideboard, or supress red spells. Ive underestimated Burn in the past, but at bigger events youll see it. I just want to be the guy who gets killed by turn 4. I hate that it would take multiple slots to beat them. Time to dust of my playset of Chill. I remember that back when Ponza was huge. Time will tell.
  • #127
    i'm building something very similar to this. in my list there bare no factories, and it's jace/deed heavier 4/4. also i have 4 stifle to slow them down since i'm using ancestral visions. i'm currently on deployment although i got all the cards sent to my buddy's place so i haven't had the opportunity to play test, is there a reason nobody has used stifle? i think it adds well to the clock for ancestral visions. thanks for any help
    my favorite win ever was using icequake in a POX deck and actually killing someone with a snow-covered-plains
  • #128
    Again, I still rather run blue elemental blast/hydroblast instead of chill. It's just my preference anyway to disrupt red decks.

    As for stifle, what are you going to cut for them? Stifle, is mainly used as a tempo card and in a control deck tempo doesn't provide any sort of advantage especially since it doesn't have a fast clock like RUG thresh does. Sure, stifle has other uses besides countering fetches but so does spell pierce, counterspell and spell snare.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #130
    i'm actually running stifle opposed to mishra's factory. the tempo is nice to drop a liliana or a jace and just use the 2 planeswalkers as means for kill
    my favorite win ever was using icequake in a POX deck and actually killing someone with a snow-covered-plains
  • #132
    Ah, how many lands are you running then? Considering, I actually don't think cutting lands for additional spells in a control deck is that great of an idea even if they add colorless. To me, I like to make my land drops every turn with this deck.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #133
    24-25 lands is good. Gotta hit land drops and expect to be wastelanded as well. Deck is fine. I'd say after playing against maverick piloted by my friend that its basically a joke almost. Postboard choke, so what. Spell Pierce (Adam Cai tech) can get me but that's the best we've tried. We even considered vengevine since this deck is so removal heavy. I need to play against rug. That match seems horrible between force, daze, stifle and spell Pierce plus burn. Thank goodness for discard.
  • #134
    Agreed on the land amount suggested by raze. A lot of legacy decks play 23 lands, so many people seem to assume that 23 is also correct for BUGC... It is way to little. You never want to miss a land drop, and wasteland exists. I run 25 in my list, and I still find myself getting screwed sometimes. I think 25 is alright though.

    As for the RUG matchup; I think it is around 50-60% our favor if you run 4 deeds. liliana is also a star in this matchup.


    Come Play Mafia With Us | CA Bay Area Community Thread | Play Modern With Us

    Quote from ganderin_dan

    You guys should be following Tom around like he's Moses or something.
  • #136
    I have been running about 25 lands as well. I like having the extra tarpit in there despite of some others not being much of a fan. I just like to have an unblockable win condition in a lot of cases. My list is pretty much Nick's build except with 2 more lands instead of the ponders. Which is questionable/debatable I know but I just rather play more lands then more blue spells that can dig for lands in a pure control deck. However, that is just me and the deck seems fine as is for now with the ponders in my opinion.

    I'd say the more lands you can play against both Maverick and RUG Delver Thresh the better your chances are from my experience. Considering, your a control deck and so the more lands you play the more strength you have to stay on top of the game at hand.

    Edit: Cool, Tony Chu is currently X-1 right now after 7 rounds at the current SCG Legacy open with BUG Control(Pretty much Nick's build except a few different card choices here and there). I hope he will take down the tournament as I am predicting he will but we will have to see. Smile
    Last edited by Kevinliu: 4/22/2012 6:04:46 PM
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #137
    Yah I've been watching SCG live as well and saw him, and now Terry Mullins is playing in round 8 with BUG Control. Hopefully someone will get into top 8 or better and we will get to see the list.

    EDIT: nevermind i just saw mullins play a goyf and a daze so i'm not sure this is the same deck. probably team america.

    EDIT#2: yay Chu made top 8 so we can see his list later. he's going against storm in the quarterfinals, which doesn't seem so great though.

    EDIT#3: I think he is in top 4 now Smile
    Last edited by Tom: 4/22/2012 8:14:44 PM


    Come Play Mafia With Us | CA Bay Area Community Thread | Play Modern With Us

    Quote from ganderin_dan

    You guys should be following Tom around like he's Moses or something.
  • #138
    His run ended at top 4 sadly, but we had a decklist before that anyway due to the deck tech :).

    http://starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_bug_with_tony_chu.html

    For what its worth, he lost to one of two U/R Delver decks that made it to the finals, and it was the one that won. The list seems pretty standard but I'm not an expert on the deck. It seems like the deck places well when played, which isn't often, but also that the few players that generally play it are pros or grinders, so its success is not terribly surprising or telling.
    Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
    U Merfolk U
    U G W NO Bant U G W
    U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
    Other Legacy Decks I Own:
    R G W Zoo! R G W
    B G W Junk B G W
    R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
    B W Deadguy B W
    W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
    G W Green & Taxes G W
    B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
    EDH Generals/Decks:
    Glissa
    Momir Vig
    Brion Stoutarm
    Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
    Arcum Daggson
  • #139
  • #142
    @Mia: Yeah, I think it's okay to post your list here since your deck isn't exactly BUG Thresh nor it's Team America. I think your deck is BUG control but it's the aggro-controllish version of this deck. I want to start a thread and write a primer on the aggro-control counterpart but my free time is very limited right now with college and etc.

    Actually, now I remember seeing a couple placements of your variant of BUG control(With goyfs and snapcasters) floating around in the top 16 of a Legacy GP where Bant Stoneblade won that GP. I also have seen the deck making some impressive showings in the starcity games open series as well. I don't really have the data with me but I do remember the success of Aggro-Control BUG. It seems like the deck is Next Level Threshold but with black instead of red. I don't know, I might just start calling it Next Level BUG just to throw some identification out there. With that being said, I think all iterations of BUG are completely valid and viable right now.

    The matchup against UR delver does seems pretty bad for BUG control but then again it seems bad for Team America as well. I personally think price of progress and sulfuric vortex are the main problems and that issue should be addressed with blue blasts in the board in my opinion. Especially since burn can run both of those red cards as well obviously.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
  • #143
    I really do like Mia's list... NLBUG, if you will. I personally feel like it is another arctype, but oh well. Feels more like TA, to me, but the lack of 'stalker and addition of Jace does make it more of a control deck.

    I really like that it provides a clock... most BUGC lists don't do that. That is the one thing that I long for while playing my list.

    The disadvantage is that pernicious deed and innocent blood can't be played to their full capabilities, which makes me sad.

    I'm not sure which direction is better. I presently like my list, but no creatures does feel like a drawback.

    -Tom


    Come Play Mafia With Us | CA Bay Area Community Thread | Play Modern With Us

    Quote from ganderin_dan

    You guys should be following Tom around like he's Moses or something.
  • #144
    I've been tempted to try something with bob, tiago, clique and ooze to also present an alternate method of attack. Not necessarily full on TA but something in the middle
  • #145
    All of my creature choices are strictly to aid control before any use for aggression. I decided on a creature version of the deck so that I would be able to change roles from control to aggro and to handle combo decks better, as I feel that both my version and the new planeswalker version are sufficient at the control aspect. The normal versions of the variant only play Snapcaster Mage and Tarmogoyf, so I also decided to add Dark Confidant because the matches grind down to a stalemate so often where it becomes a game winner, particularly against Mystic decks. From there, I added an unusually high amount of targeted discard to extend the game and to work in tandem with Dark Confidant or Jace. Tarmogoyf is only there to block things like Nimble Mongoose or to punish obvious bad play, but there is no real replacement for it.

    I started with 2 Thoughtseize and 4 Hymn to Tourach, but quickly took out the Hymns because they are too clunky and I can't manage 2 consecutive turns with no board presence. I also went with more Inquisition, which I think is better than Thoughtseize overall in a discard-heavy Snapcaster deck. These spells cover many roles and proper role assignment is necessary. I've found it very difficult to recover from misplays, which probably has something to do with my inexperience playing legacy as a whole.

    I started using targeted discard under one of two methods: either as the basis to a plan, or to simply take the best card. Now I use them to buy turns to push safely into a robust mid-game. I try to discard significant threats, answers to Confidant/Jace, or bait the opponent to poorly use Brainstorm. They also help cover difficult threats, such as Crucible of Worlds, Blood Moon, etc. as I have no intention of using more than 1 Force of Will per game (notice the low blue count). There are also a few cards that I tend to ignore, such as Stifle, Force of Will, or other cards that are easily played around. It's not so much a strategy as a trend I've noticed. I feel that the discard is the least obvious part of the deck. I do not claim to be a good player, as I am very new to the format. I welcome any and all suggestions openly. I can only speak from my extremely limited experiences so far. Case in point, my friends have nicknamed the deck on their own to "Wizard Beatdown". Sweat

    Also, I suggest every player learn how Sylvan Library interacts with the dredge mechanic, as it is incredibly confusing.
    Last edited by Mia: 4/26/2012 3:07:32 AM
  • #146
    Sylvan Library interaction w/ dredge mechanic.
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22607-Question-on-Sylvan-Library-and-Dredge

    From what I read, you have to dredge 3 times to not pay any life or not dredge at all.
    Legacy:
    :symr::symu: Landstill
    :symu::symw::symb: Esperblade
    :symg::symb::symr: Jund

    Modern:
    :symu::symw::symr: USA Tempo
    :symg::symb::symr: Jund

    "Someday, someone will best me. But it wont be today and it wont be you."
  • #147
    Yeah, I think it does make sense to not play stifle in Next Level BUG. I think stifle is just more effective in a deck like RUG threshold where burn spells are involved to provide that reach to finish games. Burn enables a deck like RUG to play a much stronger tempo plan because of it's speed and instant pressure combined with goyf, mongoose, and Delver. While I think in a deck like BUG you just want more control cards and/or threats that can provide you with any sort of card advantage and/or pressure on your opponents.
    2012: Top 64 at SCG Standard Portland Open with UW Miracle Control.
    2013: Top 32 at SCG Standard Tacoma Open with Esper Control.
    2014: Top 32 at SCG Legacy Tacoma Open with UWR Delver.
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