Now i want to squeeze in 4 leyline of sanctity. Sadly i'm not sure which cards to cut.
Maybe 1 runed halo, 1 sacred ground, 1 seal of cleansing and 1 wheel of sun and moon? What do you suggest?
Am I right that Sigil of the New Dawn should be Sigil of the Empty Throne instead? In that case you could maybe cut on of your win options.
If you add Leyline of Sanctity you don't need the extra Runed Halo in your SB. Against Belcher or Storm Combo, I'd try to mulligan into the Leyline. Do you really need 3 Karmic Justice?
My problem is that I usually don't know what to cut MB.
Can I ask what some of you experienced Enchantress players are using right now? I picked up a bunch of the cards over the past couple of days because this is a fun deck and after proxying up a deck, I've discovered that I really like it. However, before I start picking up too many money cards, I want to make sure I have a good build.
You dont need more than one Karmic Justice, Id drop it for another Solitary confinement. Id run atleast 2 elephant grass too, -1 Runed Halo -1 City of solitude
I was curious are there any other kills that this deck uses or has used in the past besides Sacred mesa, sigil of the empty throne, and words of war?
I've got the cards to make the deck but just wondering what other kill options are out there. those 3 listed seem to be the most common.
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I have seen Yavimaya enchantress but that is somewhat shaky.
I can't find it, but I think there is an enchant creature that gives in +2/+2 for each enchantment you control or something like that. I'm not sure if anyone else knows the card I am talking about.
I'll put this bluntly. If a really cool, unique guy went up to a normal girl, and is ugly, he's weird. if he goes up and is hot, then he's cool and unique.
Standard
It's like watching grass grow, except it's ridculously expensive.
I have seen Yavimaya enchantress but that is somewhat shaky.
I can't find it, but I think there is an enchant creature that gives in +2/+2 for each enchantment you control or something like that. I'm not sure if anyone else knows the card I am talking about.
All of the cards you listed are indeed win conditions, but for a different deck. This thread covers the Enchantress Control archetype, which locks down the board with tons of non-Aura enchants and only runs Argothian Enchantress for creatures. The archetype you're thinking of (which can indeed run Yavimaya Enchantress and Ancestral Mask) is the Aggro Enchantress build. You can find an example of said archetype here:
In general, non-shrouded creatures are terrible ideas in Enchantress decks, because one of our biggest advantages is negating all of their creature removal. The moment we have a targetable creature, all those formerly-dead cards in their hand suddenly have a use again.
Ethersworn Canonist is a house! It's not an enchantment, but it can still be Enlightened Tutor'ed for and can come down turn one. There's nothing better than beating on Solidarity and Belcher with Canonist and Elvish Spirit Guide and winning before they can find an answer. Did I mention they're good in multiples? Targeted removal generally can't deal with both in the same turn.
The deck was definetly really solid for me all day yesterday. The only card i was so so on yesterday was oppalessence and i still won off the back of it so it wasnt terrible. Im thinking i might take it out though for a 1 of something like a mirris guile or maybe a MD ground seal or karmic justice. Also the leyline of sanctity came up huge like i thought and i would recomend having 4 spots in your board for it.
On another note. I hadn't been using the words of war in my build until yesterday right before the tournement. It is definetly a must have. I won 4 games off the back of that yesterday. Two of which dished 20 to the face in 1 turn.
Hello all!
I recently ran my Enchantress build in the Legacy Win-A-Box events at Gencon, so I thought I'd share my build and a couple of insights gained from the games.
Runed Halo is an absolute beast of a silver bullet. I started the weekend out with one mainboard; I ended up adding two more just because of how useful it was. Legacy tends to be a format with relatively few win conditions in any given deck, so naming all of them with multiple copies of the Halo is almost as good as a Solitary lock. The decks where this isn't the case (i.e. Zoo) are already good matchups for us.
Lignify and Oblivion Ring are there to give me outs to Iona naming green or white, in addition to randomly being useful in other ways. Lignify is useful against Goblins in particular -- I started several games against them by playing a turn-one Plains, then tutoring for the Lignify after they laid down their Goblin Lackey. Obviously, it's one of the first cards to go against non-creature or creature-light decks.
Moat is entirely crucial to the deck, to the point where I'm seriously contemplating springing for a second one. There were a significant number of matchups where a game-1 Moat would be met with "I don't have any mainboard answers to that, let's go to game 2".
Suppression Field from the sideboard is excellent Countertop hate, in addition to being randomly good against fetches and AEther Vial. It warms my heart every time a control player has to pay five to activate his top because of multiple Suppression Field on the table.
I've currently been testing Emrakul as a 1-of and have thusly seen nothing butpositive results. With Sanctum/Sprawl/Growth/Exploration, we're essentially the only deck that can cast him w/o cheating him into play. He provides a viable 3rd win con, and is damn near impossible for most decks to kill.
He's definitely something I think Enchantress players should consider.
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The deck was definetly really solid for me all day yesterday. The only card i was so so on yesterday was oppalessence and i still won off the back of it so it wasnt terrible. Im thinking i might take it out though for a 1 of something like a mirris guile or maybe a MD ground seal or karmic justice. Also the leyline of sanctity came up huge like i thought and i would recomend having 4 spots in your board for it.
On another note. I hadn't been using the words of war in my build until yesterday right before the tournement. It is definetly a must have. I won 4 games off the back of that yesterday. Two of which dished 20 to the face in 1 turn.
Ive never tested Opalesence but it its down side (turning opponents spot removal into enchantment killers) isnt something the deck wants to be doing. Otherwise seems pretty solid, personally Id drop 2 elephant grass and 2 O-Rings for a lignify, some other silver bullets, and Enlightened Tutor.
ForlornEgoist: I added 1 ofs Emrakul and Ulamog to my build a few weeks ago and in limited playtesting they have been awesome. For any tournament Ill probably put the Ulamog into the sideboard (As an answer to Iona and any deck which should be boarding out Path and Swords), but Emrakul absolutely should be considered in the main.
I've currently been testing Emrakul as a 1-of and have thusly seen nothing butpositive results. With Sanctum/Sprawl/Growth/Exploration, we're essentially the only deck that can cast him w/o cheating him into play. He provides a viable 3rd win con, and is damn near impossible for most decks to kill.
He's definitely something I think Enchantress players should consider.
Play tested a few versions with Emrakul, and found him awfully hard to drop. Lots of land ramp/fetch and a full playset of Serra's Sanctum seem to help, but here's my issue with it:
I'm running aggro with Yavimaya, and all the auras have to come out of the deck build to make room for the mana ramping. I have found that canopy cover, shield of the oversoul, armadillo cloak, rancor, and the ever-so-spammable flickering ward are just too good to lose. Not only do they boost Yavimaya to be nearly as powerful as Emrakul, (without the annihilator of course), but the aura's also help the argothian enchantress become a viable attacker, and they're great if you're running mesa, verudan, or the ledgewalker. Auras even work on your sigil angels - but I can't really imagine needing auras on angels by that stage in the game, although I suppose it's possible.
Of course, aura's end up in the graveyard alot easier than land enchantments, but if you're running replenish, you have little to worry about. In short, as much as I love the idea of Emrakul in an enchantress deck, I have found it overall inferior to the secondary win conditions of yavimaya and words of war. When you start to fetch land, you lose some of the deck's synergy - you slow down your own draw engine. It comes down to auras vs. ramp. I choose auras.
However, a fully loaded control enchantress deck - one with moats, solitary confinement, story circle, and ivory mask - might be alot more accommodating to Emrakul. I'm currently experimenting with shrouding a platinum angel in the build. So far so good.
Maybe a build with shrouded Platinum Angel AND Emrakul? If we're going to discuss straight control and ramp, might as well throw Iona and Darksteel in there too. Dare I suggest that the sigil would come out at that point??
Play tested a few versions with Emrakul, and found him awfully hard to drop. Lots of land ramp/fetch and a full playset of Serra's Sanctum seem to help, but here's my issue with it:
I'm running aggro with Yavimaya
I hate to break it to you, but the aura-based deck you're describing is a different archetype than the Proven Competitive one being discussed in this thread. I love me some auras (I even ran my own version of the deck here for a while), but it's strictly second-tier compared to Enchantress Control. Having no targetable creatures in the deck is a huge advantage, as it blanks a rather large portion of many decks.
the aura's also help the argothian enchantress become a viable attacker
Erm. Argothian has shroud, so the only way you're getting auras onto it is by Replenishing them. It's possible, I suppose, but not something you can really rely on.
I hate to break it to you, but the aura-based deck you're describing is a different archetype than the Proven Competitive one being discussed in this thread. I love me some auras (I even ran my own version of the deck here for a while), but it's strictly second-tier compared to Enchantress Control. Having no targetable creatures in the deck is a huge advantage, as it blanks a rather large portion of many decks.
Woops. I am off-topic then indeed. Sorry bout that.
In the spirit of staying on topic, I was extremely suprised to see no mention of ivory mask early in this thread, (although I am aware that M11's introduction of the leyline of sanctity has made it obsolete now). As opposed to Solitary Confinement, you trade stifling your own draw engine for an enchantment that only costs 1 more mana and does the same thing. Wouldn't that be better in most cases? Or is turn 3-4 too slow to get your protection out?
^^
As for control vs aggro, I do in fact hope to convert to control soon. For starting out the aggro version is signifigantly less pricey but still offers a smooth transition into the control version through trading and purchasing. In the absence of a full playsets of argothian, sanctum, or any moats or savannah, I have opted for Yavimaya for now - complimented by mesa and verduran enchanted with canopy cover, flickering ward, and even armidillo cloaks. Rancor and Shield of the Oversoul have seen their way out just as of today. I think I'll try out that auratog though. Looks fun.
My aggro tempo has been slow - bogged down by a full aresnal of idyllic, enlightened, and worldly tutors. I find myself going after Story Circle alot just to stay alive. But I do enjoy plundering my library every turn for just about whatever I want. I think I'll miss the diversity when I finally make the switch - fun stuff having 1 of everything in your library and having constant access to it, but not so fun if every tutor is to fetch something to try and stay alive, which is what I assume will be the case should I try to compete with it.
In the spirit of staying on topic, I was extremely suprised to see no mention of ivory mask early in this thread, (although I am aware that M11's introduction of the leyline of sanctity has made it obsolete now). As opposed to Solitary Confinement, you trade stifling your own draw engine for an enchantment that only costs 1 more mana and does the same thing. Wouldn't that be better in most cases? Or is turn 3-4 too slow to get your protection out?
You're missing the other big phrase on Solitary Confinement -- "Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you". That provision makes it a whole 'nother ballpark from cards that just give you shroud, as you can drop a Solitary and hold off a creature rush.
Leyline of Sanctity has been discussed, but only as a sideboard card for combo matchups. The jury is still out on how effective it is.
Leyline of sanctity is effective in the board in my experience; its the best combo hate we can run, other than that godawful mindbreak trap which does nothing because sure we might surprise them game 2 but game 3 we will simply get it duressed before they combo. Solitary confinement is played because we lock people out with it via the prevention of damage which people generally need to win and it also gives us shroud. It can also fog for a turn in a pinch but that generally means you are behind/losing.
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I was looking at your deck and the sideboard, but something that doesn't make sense to me is when do you board in your one "In the eye of chaos"?
-----
In regards to leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard. I was playing mind slaver today and it turned out to be an invaluable addition. not just because it can stop that combo but it also stops black discard in general. Which can be devastating in the early turns of the game.
-----
theres a issue i'm having with the deck. I'm not sure what the best cards are for breaking a stand off in the mirror match, much less preventing the whole stand off in the first place. Whats most effective?
I'm contemplating engineered explosives.
-- by stand off i'm facing the problem of killing a protected solitary confinement by sterling grove.
second i'm considering a destroy all enchantment spell, of course this would only be used after an angel build up with sigil of the empty throne.
some advice on the mirror match strategies would be appriciated.
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theres a issue i'm having with the deck. I'm not sure what the best cards are for breaking a stand off in the mirror match, much less preventing the whole stand off in the first place. Whats most effective?
Aura of Silence seems fairly effective, and has the additional benefit of being good against any Affinity or Stax decks you run across.
I'm curious about people saying they have used emrakul has a alternate wincon in this deck. How consistent can you cast him? I guess I could slide him into my build...
I have been play testing another deck the last few weeks so admittedly I havent played more than a few games. But, most games Im looking at 6-7 land on the board and 3-4 wild growth effects, which means as long as I have a Serra’s Sanctum there has never been an issue with casting him. Really the only issue is whether or not you have Sanctum.
Its true you absolutely might end up with an Emrakul in hand and a pair of Sanctums in the yard. In that case you can always pitch him end of turn and hopefully redraw Sanctum. Not the ideal use for the 15/15 terror, but he would still have some use.
I think its important to remember that Emrakul doesnt need any support to be run in this deck, you can just plug him into this deck as a 1 of and the deck plays exactly the same.
The problem I find with un-tutorable one ofs is that you'll either get them in the opening hand or never when you need them. I never find an empty throne to be an annoying opener because playing it early can be a huge help when needing blockers or a faster clock.
Am I right that Sigil of the New Dawn should be Sigil of the Empty Throne instead? In that case you could maybe cut on of your win options.
If you add Leyline of Sanctity you don't need the extra Runed Halo in your SB. Against Belcher or Storm Combo, I'd try to mulligan into the Leyline. Do you really need 3 Karmic Justice?
My problem is that I usually don't know what to cut MB.
My gallery of altered cards
You dont need more than one Karmic Justice, Id drop it for another Solitary confinement. Id run atleast 2 elephant grass too, -1 Runed Halo -1 City of solitude
I've got the cards to make the deck but just wondering what other kill options are out there. those 3 listed seem to be the most common.
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I can't find it, but I think there is an enchant creature that gives in +2/+2 for each enchantment you control or something like that. I'm not sure if anyone else knows the card I am talking about.
All of the cards you listed are indeed win conditions, but for a different deck. This thread covers the Enchantress Control archetype, which locks down the board with tons of non-Aura enchants and only runs Argothian Enchantress for creatures. The archetype you're thinking of (which can indeed run Yavimaya Enchantress and Ancestral Mask) is the Aggro Enchantress build. You can find an example of said archetype here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=161103
In general, non-shrouded creatures are terrible ideas in Enchantress decks, because one of our biggest advantages is negating all of their creature removal. The moment we have a targetable creature, all those formerly-dead cards in their hand suddenly have a use again.
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Sterling grove
3 City of solitude
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
2 sigil of the empty throne
1 Words of war
1 Oppalessence
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Replenish
//Creatures
4 Argothian Enchtress
//Land
4 Savanah
1 Taiga
4 Winswept Heath
3 Sarra's Sanctum
6 Forest
3 Plains
4 Leyline of sanctity
3 Choke
3 Karmic Justice
2 Wheel of sun and moon
3 Aura of silence
The deck was definetly really solid for me all day yesterday. The only card i was so so on yesterday was oppalessence and i still won off the back of it so it wasnt terrible. Im thinking i might take it out though for a 1 of something like a mirris guile or maybe a MD ground seal or karmic justice. Also the leyline of sanctity came up huge like i thought and i would recomend having 4 spots in your board for it.
On another note. I hadn't been using the words of war in my build until yesterday right before the tournement. It is definetly a must have. I won 4 games off the back of that yesterday. Two of which dished 20 to the face in 1 turn.
I recently ran my Enchantress build in the Legacy Win-A-Box events at Gencon, so I thought I'd share my build and a couple of insights gained from the games.
My build:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
3 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
Acceleration: 9
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Wild Growth
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
Wincons: 2
1 Words of War
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Other: 11
1 Lignify
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Replenish
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Runed Halo
1 Moat
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
5 Plains
7 Forest
1 City of Solitude
1 Karmic Justice
1 Ground Seal
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Sacred Ground
2 Aura of Silence
3 Suppression Field
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
Things I learned:
He's definitely something I think Enchantress players should consider.
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Ive never tested Opalesence but it its down side (turning opponents spot removal into enchantment killers) isnt something the deck wants to be doing. Otherwise seems pretty solid, personally Id drop 2 elephant grass and 2 O-Rings for a lignify, some other silver bullets, and Enlightened Tutor.
ForlornEgoist: I added 1 ofs Emrakul and Ulamog to my build a few weeks ago and in limited playtesting they have been awesome. For any tournament Ill probably put the Ulamog into the sideboard (As an answer to Iona and any deck which should be boarding out Path and Swords), but Emrakul absolutely should be considered in the main.
What do you drop to include Emrakul?
I'm running aggro with Yavimaya, and all the auras have to come out of the deck build to make room for the mana ramping. I have found that canopy cover, shield of the oversoul, armadillo cloak, rancor, and the ever-so-spammable flickering ward are just too good to lose. Not only do they boost Yavimaya to be nearly as powerful as Emrakul, (without the annihilator of course), but the aura's also help the argothian enchantress become a viable attacker, and they're great if you're running mesa, verudan, or the ledgewalker. Auras even work on your sigil angels - but I can't really imagine needing auras on angels by that stage in the game, although I suppose it's possible.
Of course, aura's end up in the graveyard alot easier than land enchantments, but if you're running replenish, you have little to worry about. In short, as much as I love the idea of Emrakul in an enchantress deck, I have found it overall inferior to the secondary win conditions of yavimaya and words of war. When you start to fetch land, you lose some of the deck's synergy - you slow down your own draw engine. It comes down to auras vs. ramp. I choose auras.
However, a fully loaded control enchantress deck - one with moats, solitary confinement, story circle, and ivory mask - might be alot more accommodating to Emrakul. I'm currently experimenting with shrouding a platinum angel in the build. So far so good.
Maybe a build with shrouded Platinum Angel AND Emrakul? If we're going to discuss straight control and ramp, might as well throw Iona and Darksteel in there too. Dare I suggest that the sigil would come out at that point??
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
I hate to break it to you, but the aura-based deck you're describing is a different archetype than the Proven Competitive one being discussed in this thread. I love me some auras (I even ran my own version of the deck here for a while), but it's strictly second-tier compared to Enchantress Control. Having no targetable creatures in the deck is a huge advantage, as it blanks a rather large portion of many decks.
Erm. Argothian has shroud, so the only way you're getting auras onto it is by Replenishing them. It's possible, I suppose, but not something you can really rely on.
Woops. I am off-topic then indeed. Sorry bout that.
In the spirit of staying on topic, I was extremely suprised to see no mention of ivory mask early in this thread, (although I am aware that M11's introduction of the leyline of sanctity has made it obsolete now). As opposed to Solitary Confinement, you trade stifling your own draw engine for an enchantment that only costs 1 more mana and does the same thing. Wouldn't that be better in most cases? Or is turn 3-4 too slow to get your protection out?
^^
As for control vs aggro, I do in fact hope to convert to control soon. For starting out the aggro version is signifigantly less pricey but still offers a smooth transition into the control version through trading and purchasing. In the absence of a full playsets of argothian, sanctum, or any moats or savannah, I have opted for Yavimaya for now - complimented by mesa and verduran enchanted with canopy cover, flickering ward, and even armidillo cloaks. Rancor and Shield of the Oversoul have seen their way out just as of today. I think I'll try out that auratog though. Looks fun.
My aggro tempo has been slow - bogged down by a full aresnal of idyllic, enlightened, and worldly tutors. I find myself going after Story Circle alot just to stay alive. But I do enjoy plundering my library every turn for just about whatever I want. I think I'll miss the diversity when I finally make the switch - fun stuff having 1 of everything in your library and having constant access to it, but not so fun if every tutor is to fetch something to try and stay alive, which is what I assume will be the case should I try to compete with it.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
You're missing the other big phrase on Solitary Confinement -- "Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you". That provision makes it a whole 'nother ballpark from cards that just give you shroud, as you can drop a Solitary and hold off a creature rush.
Leyline of Sanctity has been discussed, but only as a sideboard card for combo matchups. The jury is still out on how effective it is.
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I was looking at your deck and the sideboard, but something that doesn't make sense to me is when do you board in your one "In the eye of chaos"?
-----
In regards to leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard. I was playing mind slaver today and it turned out to be an invaluable addition. not just because it can stop that combo but it also stops black discard in general. Which can be devastating in the early turns of the game.
-----
theres a issue i'm having with the deck. I'm not sure what the best cards are for breaking a stand off in the mirror match, much less preventing the whole stand off in the first place. Whats most effective?
I'm contemplating engineered explosives.
-- by stand off i'm facing the problem of killing a protected solitary confinement by sterling grove.
second i'm considering a destroy all enchantment spell, of course this would only be used after an angel build up with sigil of the empty throne.
some advice on the mirror match strategies would be appriciated.
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Any time I'm facing something that relies on counterspells? In the Eye of Chaos makes Force of Will a very sad panda indeed.
Aura of Silence seems fairly effective, and has the additional benefit of being good against any Affinity or Stax decks you run across.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I think its important to remember that Emrakul doesnt need any support to be run in this deck, you can just plug him into this deck as a 1 of and the deck plays exactly the same.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG