Death and Taxes got an obscene boost in power, what with Sanctum Prelate and Recruiter of the Guard (both of which are $15 cards minimum). I don't know if that bodes ill for us or not.
Prelate's ability is powerful enough to lock us out so I think keeping slow hands against D&T should be avoided. Going off on turn 1 or 2 might be a good plan to make a 3rd turn Prelate/Recruiter irrelevant.
Prelate's ability is powerful enough to lock us out so I think keeping slow hands against D&T should be avoided. Going off on turn 1 or 2 might be a good plan to make a 3rd turn Prelate/Recruiter irrelevant.
Yeah I think Prelate might be a little slow to bother us too much, but as yet I haven't even faced that card in battle.
Recruiter I AM concerned about given how flexible it is postboard, as silly as that sounds compared to Prelate, but as yet it hasn't hurt me. Usually my opponents playing it (only D&T so far) have been using it for value, rather that combo blow-outs against me, so I'm not sure how much more hurt to expect.
Maybe they're suffering dredge-hate remorse and feel guilty for hating on us so much?
I think it has more to do with the current hate available. They might think that all the recent printings of new graveyard hate are enough to keep us down.
Recruiter I AM concerned about given how flexible it is postboard, as silly as that sounds compared to Prelate, but as yet it hasn't hurt me.
I haven't played against D&T since the printing of those two cards so I don't have any actual stories to share. So as of the moment, I am still more afraid of a turn 2 RIP than a turn 3 recruiter/prelate.
I feel like we may have talked about that in the previous thread, but it's been a while. What exactly would be in the transformation, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage, and Life from the Loam? If it's a plan that relies on Loam it's a very bad idea because decks already bring strong graveyard hate against us.
Vintage is a very different beast. I don't think Chancellor is the way to go for us because it does nothing in the graveyard and nothing to enable our engine. I think Chancellor is good in Manaless Dredge because they are so reliant on going second.
I agree with playing Kolaghan over FKZ, but I personally don't maindeck Iona.
Yeah I tried the DD transformational side for quite a while.
Clunky, inconsistent, doesn't win the games we would otherwise lose without it.
I abandoned it when I was losing games that a more traditional DDD-gameplan would've won me.
I've actually been thinking about Chancellor in LED Dredge but the list is so tight that I don't know what to take out in order to test them since you obviously need a playset for the auto daze effect. I think Chancellor is a decent DR target so I wouldn't say it's completely useless in the yard.
@senserazer - Ah yes, that seems like a fairly weak sideboard plan if it takes that many turns to set up. I imagine getting the colors to both cantrip and cast Vampire Hexmage can be quite a pain. I haven't tested Prized Amalgam in LED Dredge yet, but I think he has decent potential. Bloodghast is an out-of-date and favor choice. Street Wraith is nice in Manaless Dredge, but we have access to much stronger cards because we play lands. For example, Breakthrough. I personally play more Putrid Imps because then I rely less on my cantrips to put stuff in the grave and can use them to dredge.
@SHABOOGS - True, Chancellor is a decent target for Dread Return. Unfortunately, it has to compete with Iona, Shield of Emeria, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I just don't see it performing better than those three in LED Dredge. If someone wants to play Chancellor of the Annex and they like the results, that's awesome. I just play Chancellor in my super fast version of Reanimator, so I'm not looking for another place to play them.
2x0 against Merfolk
1x2 againt UR Delver
2x0 againt Jund
2x1 against Sultai Reanimator
2x0 against Grixis Delver
2x0 against 4 color Knightfall (Retreat to Coralhelm + Knight of the Reliquary)
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One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
@senserazer - It's like an all-in turn 1 version of Reanimator. I've never seen a list exactly like it before, but it borrows from a few versions of the deck. I think I'm missing a card, but I didn't count them, so oh well
@Eretoryi, I always used Flayer. To me, he's the only clear choice among the ones to be the single maindeck DR target.
And Force is something I wanted to experiment with a long time, so I borrowed them, and let me tell you: They should be the norm in every Dredge sideboard. We have enough blue cards to make them work (with Amalgam existing now), they give us edge against all combo decks (including the mirror, because of Dread Return), they are good against Rest in Peace, etc.
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One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
Any advice for a new dredge player who's somewhat apprehensive to take the deck to an event? Even though I've sat and goldfished countless times and I've played quite a few games with close friends I have this strange fear that once I'm sitting in front of someone unfamiliar I'll mess up my play and look like an idiot. After all, the deck can be pretty intimidating to play as there's a ton going on. I've fallen in love with watching the deck and I'm determined to make it my legacy mainstay but I'm just wondering if any of you experienced this feeling when you first picked up dredge and if you had any tips. Thanks guys!
I've been seeing lists every now and then experimenting with Prized Amalgam. Is it worth the slot main deck? Since I'm running a LEDless build for budget reasons, is it worth making room for it MD as my gameplan is usually slower? Is @Punksterbass' x3 Ichorid x3 Amalgam split correct?
Many thanks for your comments!
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Modern: BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH: UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
Sorry for the delay in responses, guys. It's been pretty slow here for Dredge, so I haven't been checking consistently.
@burningtower - In my opinion, there is really no way to be ready for an event without playing in one. That's okay though, because we all start somewhere. I would recommend a free MTG program like XMage (which I prefer) or Cockatrice to get in some games against human opponents. If you're able to go to weekly Legacy tournaments in your area, or something similar, the pressure of winning all your matches will be very low while the amount of practice will do you a lot of good.
@TheMcFearless - I still haven't had a chance to test Amalgam much. I think it's a good card, but not as good as Ichorid. That said, I would imagine 1 or 2 is the correct number of Amalgams in Legacy. If you're playing without LED make sure you max out on Putrid Imp first. As a repeatable way to put dredgers in your graveyard it helps to replace LED as an enabler. You have some flexibility, though, so maybe you can play more Amalgams if they suit your style. I imagine they're quite good in grindy matchups.
A pair of Prized Amalgams are more commonly used in the main if you are using a playset of Force of Wills in the sideboard. It helps by increasing the blue card count in addition to being an added threat.
Sorry for the delay in responses, guys. It's been pretty slow here for Dredge, so I haven't been checking consistently.
@burningtower - In my opinion, there is really no way to be ready for an event without playing in one. That's okay though, because we all start somewhere. I would recommend a free MTG program like XMage (which I prefer) or Cockatrice to get in some games against human opponents. If you're able to go to weekly Legacy tournaments in your area, or something similar, the pressure of winning all your matches will be very low while the amount of practice will do you a lot of good.
@TheMcFearless - I still haven't had a chance to test Amalgam much. I think it's a good card, but not as good as Ichorid. That said, I would imagine 1 or 2 is the correct number of Amalgams in Legacy. If you're playing without LED make sure you max out on Putrid Imp first. As a repeatable way to put dredgers in your graveyard it helps to replace LED as an enabler. You have some flexibility, though, so maybe you can play more Amalgams if they suit your style. I imagine they're quite good in grindy matchups.
Shaboogs is right RE: Amalgam - FoW is why I play it.
RE: First timer tips. The best one I could probably share is to keep in mid how glass-cannon this deck can be. Don't blow your load every time you have the opportunity. Be patient. There are quite a few decks, like Miracles, which will punish you with Terminus for example, should you combo out quickly without finishing the job.
And other decks you simply must race... you'll find out.
There are quite a few perms that you will have trouble dealing with too, try to learn as much as you can out the other decks you play. Also bear in mind what makes a good sideboard option online, and what you might find useful against the decks you will actually face, can be vastly different.
I've just recently got into playing legacy and I really wanted to play dredge, I've been playing manaless for a while and decided to move over to LED. I just picked up this list:
Depending on your meta, putting most of your combo finish in the sideboard may or may not be correct. For example, I like to keep a DR target or two in the main because I rarely have a chance to combo out in games 2 and 3.
I would also recommend switching Griselbrand for Iona, Shield of Emeria. Iona can easily win games, whereas Griselbrand struggles a bit. He is nice to have as an enabler for more dredging, but I think he's more of a "win more" option. It's not like he can draw us into counterspells, and our opponent can just win the game when we pass the turn back to them.
You could also use firestorm as an uncounterable discard outlet against countermagic heavy decks since the discard is part of the cost and cannot be stopped even if firestorm is countered. You could also trim 1 dread return in your sideboard since 3 DR is normally used with Flayer of the Hatebound or Griselbrand with either Flame Kin Zealot or Dragonlord Kolaghan as a way to increase the chance of a supercombofinish route. 2 DR in your 75 is enough for silver bullet DR targets like Iona, Ashen Rider and Elesh Norn
What matchups is firestorm for? I can't say I've used it once yet.
Firestorm is for creature decks. It kills x/2s super easily while throwing a little burn at your opponent. And if they swarm the board with a bunch of dorks, pitch everything but a bridge (unless sacrificing one at that point means little) to clear their board and hopefully fireball them.
Played LED Dredge last night at my LGS to a pretty easy 3-0. Not bad for having been out of magic for 2 and a half years.
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Didn't think of that - good spot.
Maybe they're suffering dredge-hate remorse and feel guilty for hating on us so much?
Yeah I think Prelate might be a little slow to bother us too much, but as yet I haven't even faced that card in battle.
Recruiter I AM concerned about given how flexible it is postboard, as silly as that sounds compared to Prelate, but as yet it hasn't hurt me. Usually my opponents playing it (only D&T so far) have been using it for value, rather that combo blow-outs against me, so I'm not sure how much more hurt to expect.
I haven't played against D&T since the printing of those two cards so I don't have any actual stories to share. So as of the moment, I am still more afraid of a turn 2 RIP than a turn 3 recruiter/prelate.
Vintage is a very different beast. I don't think Chancellor is the way to go for us because it does nothing in the graveyard and nothing to enable our engine. I think Chancellor is good in Manaless Dredge because they are so reliant on going second.
I agree with playing Kolaghan over FKZ, but I personally don't maindeck Iona.
Clunky, inconsistent, doesn't win the games we would otherwise lose without it.
I abandoned it when I was losing games that a more traditional DDD-gameplan would've won me.
@SHABOOGS - True, Chancellor is a decent target for Dread Return. Unfortunately, it has to compete with Iona, Shield of Emeria, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I just don't see it performing better than those three in LED Dredge. If someone wants to play Chancellor of the Annex and they like the results, that's awesome. I just play Chancellor in my super fast version of Reanimator, so I'm not looking for another place to play them.
Played on a 48 person Legacy event on Saturday, here in Rio. Ended up going 5-1, in fourth place.
The list I ran:
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below
3 Prized Amalgam
3 Ichorid
2 Dread Return
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Gemstone Mine
3 Mana Confluence
3 City Of Brass
3 Firestorm
3 Unmask
3 Nature's Claim
2 Chain of Vapor
My rounds went:
2x0 against Merfolk
1x2 againt UR Delver
2x0 againt Jund
2x1 against Sultai Reanimator
2x0 against Grixis Delver
2x0 against 4 color Knightfall (Retreat to Coralhelm + Knight of the Reliquary)
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Island
(Instants/sorceries)
4 Careful Study
4 Unmask
4 Entomb
4 Daze
2 Brainstorm
4 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites
4 Exhume
1 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sire of Insanity
3 Massacre
4 Show and Tell
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Contagion
3 Sickening Shoal
@Punksterbass - Congratulations! Do you normally play Flayer in the main and Force in the side? I'm curious how those perform for you.
And Force is something I wanted to experiment with a long time, so I borrowed them, and let me tell you: They should be the norm in every Dredge sideboard. We have enough blue cards to make them work (with Amalgam existing now), they give us edge against all combo decks (including the mirror, because of Dread Return), they are good against Rest in Peace, etc.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
I've been seeing lists every now and then experimenting with Prized Amalgam. Is it worth the slot main deck? Since I'm running a LEDless build for budget reasons, is it worth making room for it MD as my gameplan is usually slower? Is @Punksterbass' x3 Ichorid x3 Amalgam split correct?
Many thanks for your comments!
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
@burningtower - In my opinion, there is really no way to be ready for an event without playing in one. That's okay though, because we all start somewhere. I would recommend a free MTG program like XMage (which I prefer) or Cockatrice to get in some games against human opponents. If you're able to go to weekly Legacy tournaments in your area, or something similar, the pressure of winning all your matches will be very low while the amount of practice will do you a lot of good.
@TheMcFearless - I still haven't had a chance to test Amalgam much. I think it's a good card, but not as good as Ichorid. That said, I would imagine 1 or 2 is the correct number of Amalgams in Legacy. If you're playing without LED make sure you max out on Putrid Imp first. As a repeatable way to put dredgers in your graveyard it helps to replace LED as an enabler. You have some flexibility, though, so maybe you can play more Amalgams if they suit your style. I imagine they're quite good in grindy matchups.
Shaboogs is right RE: Amalgam - FoW is why I play it.
RE: First timer tips. The best one I could probably share is to keep in mid how glass-cannon this deck can be. Don't blow your load every time you have the opportunity. Be patient. There are quite a few decks, like Miracles, which will punish you with Terminus for example, should you combo out quickly without finishing the job.
And other decks you simply must race... you'll find out.
There are quite a few perms that you will have trouble dealing with too, try to learn as much as you can out the other decks you play. Also bear in mind what makes a good sideboard option online, and what you might find useful against the decks you will actually face, can be vastly different.
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
3x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Street Wraith
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Careful Study
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Land (13)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
1x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Ashen Rider
2x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2x Firestorm
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Griselbrand
3x Lotus Petal
2x Nature's Claim
I'm a little unsure about the sideboard, but so far it's been working pretty well. Any advice would be great! thanks!
Depending on your meta, putting most of your combo finish in the sideboard may or may not be correct. For example, I like to keep a DR target or two in the main because I rarely have a chance to combo out in games 2 and 3.
I would also recommend switching Griselbrand for Iona, Shield of Emeria. Iona can easily win games, whereas Griselbrand struggles a bit. He is nice to have as an enabler for more dredging, but I think he's more of a "win more" option. It's not like he can draw us into counterspells, and our opponent can just win the game when we pass the turn back to them.
Firestorm is for creature decks. It kills x/2s super easily while throwing a little burn at your opponent. And if they swarm the board with a bunch of dorks, pitch everything but a bridge (unless sacrificing one at that point means little) to clear their board and hopefully fireball them.
Played LED Dredge last night at my LGS to a pretty easy 3-0. Not bad for having been out of magic for 2 and a half years.