The idea is to use copperhorns with the beastmaster after the timberwatch has powered it up.The guildmage can produce hundreds of tokens if needed.Since the copperhorn causes multiple untaps I thought using beastmaster was a go power option.
It's been a long time since I played legacy elves. Am I still limited to a single cradle?
Should I add,or can I,use my deathrites?I have a full set.
I was looking at splashing black for decay and TS.
The idea is to use copperhorns with the beastmaster after the timberwatch has powered it up.The guildmage can produce hundreds of tokens if needed.Since the copperhorn causes multiple untaps I thought using beastmaster was a go power option.
It's been a long time since I played legacy elves. Am I still limited to a single cradle?
Should I add,or can I,use my deathrites?I have a full set.
I was looking at splashing black for decay and TS.
The idea is to use copperhorns with the beastmaster after the timberwatch has powered it up.The guildmage can produce hundreds of tokens if needed.Since the copperhorn causes multiple untaps I thought using beastmaster was a go power option.
It's been a long time since I played legacy elves. Am I still limited to a single cradle?
Should I add,or can I,use my deathrites?I have a full set.
I was looking at splashing black for decay and TS.
If you are seriously looking at getting into legacy, I would suggest you look at other elf lists in this thread and lists that top tournaments. Sure there are some differences between the different lists, however there is what many people would consider a core.
Most if not all of those cards are not seen in competitive legacy elf decks anymore because there are more optimal cards that could be run instead.
Llanowar elf, elvish mystic, fyndhorn elves: Since this is no longer an all in combo deck, this card is not really needed (sometimes it is included as a 1-2 of). We make more use of herritage druid, which essentially turns most of our guys into llanowar elves by making 3 elves tap for 3 mana. The same goes for the other variations of the card like elvish mystic or fyndhorn elves.
Elvish archdruid: This card can produce crazy amounts of mana, but since we usually win on our combo turn (if going for the glimpse route) this guy does not get to use his effect. Priest of titania may be a better inclusion as it is a similar effect but costs 1 less. However all legacy lists left these 2 elves behind a few years ago as there are better cards that have more synergies.
Sylvan messenger: This card is too expensive for an elf deck. Enough said IMO. If you want me to expand on this I can, but his dig isnt needed as we have green sun's zeneth, natural order (if you decide to play it) and glimpse of nature to power out more elves/ find a threat.
Copperhorn Scout: this creature is too cute and has no business being in a deck.
Wellwisher: Good when you are ahead, horrible when you are behind. This card is not necessary as it is a win more card. WHen you need it to gain you life to stay alive, you probably will not have any other elves, and if you have other elves you should be winning.
Wild Beastmaster: 2 words. Craterhoof Behemoth. Craterhoof behemoth gives all of our guys trample and power equal to the number of creatures we control. The extra mana this card costs is well worth it and easy to achieve in an elf deck.
Kozoda guildmage: the guildmages are too expensive and there are much better things you can do with your mana.
This is the established section and we try to keep the decklists competitive, which is why I am suggesting more optimal cards, but if you want to play casually and have fun like that, all the power to you, but we ask you to post in the casual section. If you want to see what the core of a legacy elf deck looks like here one is
Lands: 18-21
4 Gaea's Cradle (to answer your question run 4 because of the legend rule change)
2 Bayou
1-2 Forest (usually 2 but recently cut to 1 if playing without NO to make room for Savannah)
8-9 Fetchlands (Usually 4 Verdant Catacombs and 4 g(x) fetch but up to you on which you run)
1-2 Dryad Arbor (run 2 if you play NO)
0-2 Cavern of Souls (with miracles more and more people are playing some)
0-1 Pendelhaven (can save an elf from dieing and provide some combat tricks)
Spells: 8-12
4 Green Sun's Zenith (can grab any creature in your deck)
4 Glimpse of Nature (1 of your wincons)
0-4 Natural Order (some lists recently cut this card, however try out different lists. I recommend 3 if you play it.
Since the core makes up so much of the deck there is not much room for flex slots/ other creatures. If you are serious about making a viable legacy elves deck I urge you to read the primer as it is well written but may be a little out of date.
Ok, that makes sense. Plus, I love the reasoning behind why it's called Chaos Elves (because there is no Order which is the opposite of Chaos). Totes diggin' the name.
Round 1: 0-2 vs Miracles
I don't know if there is anything to say about this match.
Game 1 I was on draw. he first used StoP (Swords to Plowshares) on my DRS (Deathrite Shaman) and then he played Monastery mentor to flood the board and pump them up the next turn.
Game 2 was longer but he won via Jace the Mind Sculptor and multiple StoPs via help of Snapcaster Mage, and multiple Terminus. Ugh.
Sideboard:
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Choke
+2 Null Rod
+1 Wren's Run Packmaster
-2 Glimpse of Nature
-1 Heritage Druid
-1 Quirion Ranger
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-1 Natural Order
-1 Craterhoof Behemoth
-1 Birchlore Rangers
Round 2: 0-2 vs Necrotic Ooze combo
Game 1 I was on draw. I though he was playing BUG delver (same lands) thus I thought I had time to flood the board with elves. Until he comboed off on turn 3.
Game 2 I mulled into oblivion, he comboed off on turn 1. gg.
Round 3: 0-2 vs Infect
Game 1 I was on draw. I realize immediately he was playing Infect but he was just faster with Inkmoth Nexus, pump spells and Noble Hierarch.
Game 2 I could stall the game with multiple blocks, until couple Noble Hierarchs and one Inkmoth Nexus sealed the game.
Round 5: 1-2 vs TES
Game 1 my opponent created 12 goblins on turn 2. I had just enough time to put couple of elves, next turn use Natural Order to get Craterhoof Behemoth.
Game 2 my opponent probed me, saw Thoughtseize and Null Rod. My turn 1 I thoughtseized him, which in response he used Brainstorm. Then he just had to go for the combo on his turn 2 creating 12 goblin tokens, so that my Null Rod becomes a dud.
Game 3 I played Null Rod and could stall the game while trying to play couple of elves. However in turn 4 he used Abrupt Decay on Null Rod and created 16 goblin tokens. I wasn't able to finish him off since he ripped my hand apart with Cabal Therapy.
Trying to learn from this as preparation for Prague GP:
* I should tweak my sideboard better and learn what to side out and in what matchups. I feel like my sideboard needs at least Pithing Needle.
* I should probably lower the amount of maindeck Natural Order into 3 and try to fit Sylvan Library to somewhere in 75.
* I think going for chaos elves is out of question since that list needs Gaddock Teeg and Savannah (in addition to Sylvan Library) and I dunno if I want to spend that much money just to play Teeg.
Modern: BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes) Legacy: BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
Dunno about "needs." Julian's dropped the white splash for several events now. Assuming that his European meta is similar to yours, it's still something you can consider. Of course, you actually faced storm combo which he says is pretty much off his radar now because it's been depressed by Eldrazi. I don't really have any tips, except to see if his recent developments and the reasoning behind them might work for you.
So, I just picked up legacy elves last weekend. I walked into the game store and someone just said "hey, you in for a legacy tournament?"
I shrugged and said I don't have a deck.
That was not an acceptable answer.
So 10 minutes later I have this monogreen tribal deck and I'm just trying to get the feel for it as I goldfish it over and over.
I get the bye and play against fish and jund, going 1-2 against 2 guys who have played their decks before.Notably awesome plays included using Wirewood Symbiote to save my Visionary from a toxic deluge so I can topdeck a natural order to go with my remaining Nettle Sentinels.Also, Glimpse of Nature is super awesome.
But I really like this deck. I usually play spell based combos and blue tempo, but I think I should invest in this deck. It's super fun. I've been playing with a few proxies around the house until all the pieces are mine. Might be a few years.
I do have questions- what gives Wren's Run Packmaster such an edge? Should I play it? Why does playing without Natural Order (Chaos Elves) do better against Miracles?
Packmaster is a good card for slower, grindy matchups. It dodges Bolt and Decay, makes Deathtouchy wolves that beat just about any ground army, and allows you to not overextend into Terminus. Also, you draw a card with Visionary when Terminus hits.
On the flipside, Natural Order opens you up for 2-for-1s. It gives the deck more speed against faster decks like Storm, but is a liability against countermagic.
The two builds are therefore at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to attacking a meta.
I didn't think of that part of elves, the deck seems next to useless when you only have one creature, so that extra body could be the difference when your Packmaster gets wrathed.
I want to buy myself into legacy elves. Is this the right deck choice atm? I played infect and ANT before.
I play kiki chord in modern, but I want to play a legacy creature combo/toolbox deck. Would this be the right choice?
I guess i prefer the Natural Order one. Just because the art is awsome. Nah thats a joke. But I think I enjoy playing that more. I am going to proxy it up and test the next couple of weeks before I will buy myself in.
Just a quick question, what is Elderscale Wurm good for in an Elf deck? I've seen it in some sideboards recently and I just can't fathom why this is so....
As you might expect from me, my counterargument would be that Wurm is not better enough of the time. Why would you ever be able to drop a big creature and not want to win on the spot with Craterhoof Behemoth? If there's something preventing you from winning through those means, e.g. Ensnaring Bridge, you'd still prefer to advance your board state with a wincon that doesn't need the red zone (e.g. Shaman of the Pack), or by blowing up the offending permanent (e.g. Reclamation Sage).
It's a similar argument against Ruric Thar, The Unbowed: why dissuade them from casting non-creature spells when you can immediately stop them from continuing to play?
Sure we can come up with corner cases where a particular alternate card like Ruric or Wurm could be better, but that's not really the point. I'd be really interested in common matchups where these other cards would be better than just dropping the hoof.
As you might expect from me, my counterargument would be that Wurm is not better enough of the time. Why would you ever be able to drop a big creature and not want to win on the spot with Craterhoof Behemoth? If there's something preventing you from winning through those means, e.g. Ensnaring Bridge, you'd still prefer to advance your board state with a wincon that doesn't need the red zone (e.g. Shaman of the Pack), or by blowing up the offending permanent (e.g. Reclamation Sage).
It's a similar argument against Ruric Thar, The Unbowed: why dissuade them from casting non-creature spells when you can immediately stop them from continuing to play?
Sure we can come up with corner cases where a particular alternate card like Ruric or Wurm could be better, but that's not really the point. I'd be really interested in common matchups where these other cards would be better than just dropping the hoof.
Eh... last weekend, I had 4 creatures in play, casted NO. My opponent bolted a pair in response so all I got was an elf and hoof and still lost. game two, I NO, again the delver casted an instant that hit two bodies. Rurik Thar hit the table... And the player said..... oh. I dropped him from 19 to 11 in one turn and he couldn't bolt Thar twice or he'd die.
@Kaiyla: your examples arguably illustrate the dangers of banking on NO, as much as they do the relative merits of Craterhoof and Ruric. Thanks for providing them though, as they're exactly what I'm looking for to better understand and compare these options.
@TheAller: I can kind of see the argument for Ruric against Miracles, except you're probably better off without NO against them to begin with (and siding in e.g. Abrupt Decay instead). If you side out NO, that in turn decreases the number of chances you'll get to find Ruric and cheat him out.
I could see Ruric (and not hoof) being useful in the early game against storm if it can be fetched with NO, but coming from the Chaos Elves perspective that's not something that would be open to me anyway. Perhaps my skepticism makes more sense through that lens. Or maybe I'm nuts.
Is Krosan Grip over Abrupt Decay intentional, or due to availability? If you ever get a Cradle, run Crop Rotations to find it. You don't need a full set, and Cradles/Rotations kind of fill spell slots anyway. Is yardhate not needed in your meta? What would you take out for Draught?
The sideboard is far from complete, but I've spent my Magic budget finishing the mainboard I posted. My main goal with the sideboard is to duress a FoW from someone's hand. I've mostly played against Burn and Sneak and Show with earlier versions of this deck, so I don't much experience yet. However, I feel confident enough about the mainboard to start going to local shops with it.
It's a subject of great debate over on The Source. I haven't played with her in my build, but some thoughts I've gathered are: Her +1 is amazing for untap tricks with Cradle and Symbiote, and she can be used to deal with post-Terminus Jace. That said, yes it's a lot of mana, which means it may be win-more. A GP top 8 with two Nissa main means there's probably some fire under all this smoke, to butcher a figure of speech. I'd love to hear more from others who've actually tried her though.
so im about to make the switch from modern combo elves to legacy, i am currently going to run [[beck//call]] instead of glimpses. i also plan on adding deathrites, rangers, birchwood elves to the deck. along with green sun instead of chord of calling. any other surgestions to change out for legacy build? i do want to get natural orders just havent had the funds yet
to dice_bag i want to say thank you. i enjoyed reading ur primer. also thank you to the whole combo elf community. i have identified the pieces i want to get moving forward thru the experiences and posts about their deck. it helped a lot in deciding what i think will work. eventually i plan on posting my deck list that i am working on building. after catching up with the group i feel like that i should just put that out there.
alright gang, i have a deck in the works and would appreciate feedback that i can recieve about the deck. im making the transition from modern B/G Elves into legacy
Sideboard
2x [[Pithing Needle]]
2x [[Thoughtseize]]
1x [[Scavenging Ooze]]
1x [[Thrun, the Last Troll]] (going to be replaced with [[Progenitus]])
1x [[Ruric Thar, the Unbowed]]
2x [[Surgical Extraction]]
4x [[Abrupt Decay]] (going to replace 1 with a [[Natural Order]])
1x [[Beast Within]] (going to be replaced with [[Reclamation Sage]])
1x [[Stain the Mind]] (going to be replaced with [[Gaddock Teeg]]
4 elvish mystic
1 elvish archdruid
4 sylvan messenger
4 copperhorn scout
4 shaman of the pack
3 well wisher
2 wild beastmaster
2 kozoda guildmage
The idea is to use copperhorns with the beastmaster after the timberwatch has powered it up.The guildmage can produce hundreds of tokens if needed.Since the copperhorn causes multiple untaps I thought using beastmaster was a go power option.
It's been a long time since I played legacy elves. Am I still limited to a single cradle?
Should I add,or can I,use my deathrites?I have a full set.
I was looking at splashing black for decay and TS.
I might suggest taking this list to Budget Legacy or Casual and Related Formats. This thread is specifically for discussing the established competitive "Combo Elves" list that focuses on Hertiage Druid Nettle Sentinel Glimpse of Nature chains and Natural Order into Craterhoof Behemoth, with Wirewood Symbiote letting you grind out value from Elvish Visionary and Reclamation Sage for longer games.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
If you are seriously looking at getting into legacy, I would suggest you look at other elf lists in this thread and lists that top tournaments. Sure there are some differences between the different lists, however there is what many people would consider a core.
Most if not all of those cards are not seen in competitive legacy elf decks anymore because there are more optimal cards that could be run instead.
Llanowar elf, elvish mystic, fyndhorn elves: Since this is no longer an all in combo deck, this card is not really needed (sometimes it is included as a 1-2 of). We make more use of herritage druid, which essentially turns most of our guys into llanowar elves by making 3 elves tap for 3 mana. The same goes for the other variations of the card like elvish mystic or fyndhorn elves.
Elvish archdruid: This card can produce crazy amounts of mana, but since we usually win on our combo turn (if going for the glimpse route) this guy does not get to use his effect. Priest of titania may be a better inclusion as it is a similar effect but costs 1 less. However all legacy lists left these 2 elves behind a few years ago as there are better cards that have more synergies.
Sylvan messenger: This card is too expensive for an elf deck. Enough said IMO. If you want me to expand on this I can, but his dig isnt needed as we have green sun's zeneth, natural order (if you decide to play it) and glimpse of nature to power out more elves/ find a threat.
Copperhorn Scout: this creature is too cute and has no business being in a deck.
Wellwisher: Good when you are ahead, horrible when you are behind. This card is not necessary as it is a win more card. WHen you need it to gain you life to stay alive, you probably will not have any other elves, and if you have other elves you should be winning.
Wild Beastmaster: 2 words. Craterhoof Behemoth. Craterhoof behemoth gives all of our guys trample and power equal to the number of creatures we control. The extra mana this card costs is well worth it and easy to achieve in an elf deck.
Kozoda guildmage: the guildmages are too expensive and there are much better things you can do with your mana.
This is the established section and we try to keep the decklists competitive, which is why I am suggesting more optimal cards, but if you want to play casually and have fun like that, all the power to you, but we ask you to post in the casual section. If you want to see what the core of a legacy elf deck looks like here one is
Lands: 18-21
4 Gaea's Cradle (to answer your question run 4 because of the legend rule change)
2 Bayou
1-2 Forest (usually 2 but recently cut to 1 if playing without NO to make room for Savannah)
8-9 Fetchlands (Usually 4 Verdant Catacombs and 4 g(x) fetch but up to you on which you run)
1-2 Dryad Arbor (run 2 if you play NO)
0-2 Cavern of Souls (with miracles more and more people are playing some)
0-1 Pendelhaven (can save an elf from dieing and provide some combat tricks)
Spells: 8-12
4 Green Sun's Zenith (can grab any creature in your deck)
4 Glimpse of Nature (1 of your wincons)
0-4 Natural Order (some lists recently cut this card, however try out different lists. I recommend 3 if you play it.
Creatures: 24-30
3-4 Heritage Druid (this card with nettle sentinel produce almost infinite mana when comboing)
3-4 Nettle Sentinel (untaps with every card you play other than a land or discard if its g2)
4 Wirewood Symbiote (BFF with elvish visionary)
4Elvish Visionary (card advantage)
4 Deathrite Shaman (makes for some crazy plays)
1-3 Birchlore Rangers (mini heritage druid but can produce any color mana)
3-4 Quirion Ranger (allows multiple untaps so cards get extra uses)
1 Reclamation Sage (gets rid of pesky artifacts/enchantments)
1-2 Craterhoof Behemoth (your killcon)
0-1 Shaman of the Pack (another killcon)
Since the core makes up so much of the deck there is not much room for flex slots/ other creatures. If you are serious about making a viable legacy elves deck I urge you to read the primer as it is well written but may be a little out of date.
For reference here is my list:
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
Spells- 10
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Sylvan Library
1 Crop Rotation
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
3 Birchlore Rangers
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Karakas
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1x Birchlore Rangers
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Natural Order
Land (20)
2x Bayou
2x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
1x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Choke
2x Null Rod
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize
1x Wren's Run Packmaster
Round 1: 0-2 vs Miracles
I don't know if there is anything to say about this match.
Game 1 I was on draw. he first used StoP (Swords to Plowshares) on my DRS (Deathrite Shaman) and then he played Monastery mentor to flood the board and pump them up the next turn.
Game 2 was longer but he won via Jace the Mind Sculptor and multiple StoPs via help of Snapcaster Mage, and multiple Terminus. Ugh.
Sideboard:
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Choke
+2 Null Rod
+1 Wren's Run Packmaster
-2 Glimpse of Nature
-1 Heritage Druid
-1 Quirion Ranger
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-1 Natural Order
-1 Craterhoof Behemoth
-1 Birchlore Rangers
Round 2: 0-2 vs Necrotic Ooze combo
Game 1 I was on draw. I though he was playing BUG delver (same lands) thus I thought I had time to flood the board with elves. Until he comboed off on turn 3.
Game 2 I mulled into oblivion, he comboed off on turn 1. gg.
Sideboard:
+2 Cabal Therapy
+3 Thoughtseize
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Scavenging Ooze
-1 Birchlore Rangers
-1 Heritage Druid
-1 Quirion Ranger
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Glimpse of Nature
-1 Reclamation Sage
Round 3: 0-2 vs Infect
Game 1 I was on draw. I realize immediately he was playing Infect but he was just faster with Inkmoth Nexus, pump spells and Noble Hierarch.
Game 2 I could stall the game with multiple blocks, until couple Noble Hierarchs and one Inkmoth Nexus sealed the game.
Sideboard:
+2 Cabal Therapy
+3 Thoughtseize
+3 Abrupt Decay
-1 Birchlore Rangers
-1 Heritage Druid
-1 Quirion Ranger
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Glimpse of Nature
-1 Reclamation Sage
-1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Round 4: *** bye ***
Round 5: 1-2 vs TES
Game 1 my opponent created 12 goblins on turn 2. I had just enough time to put couple of elves, next turn use Natural Order to get Craterhoof Behemoth.
Game 2 my opponent probed me, saw Thoughtseize and Null Rod. My turn 1 I thoughtseized him, which in response he used Brainstorm. Then he just had to go for the combo on his turn 2 creating 12 goblin tokens, so that my Null Rod becomes a dud.
Game 3 I played Null Rod and could stall the game while trying to play couple of elves. However in turn 4 he used Abrupt Decay on Null Rod and created 16 goblin tokens. I wasn't able to finish him off since he ripped my hand apart with Cabal Therapy.
Sideboard:
+2 Cabal Therapy
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Null rod
-1 Reclamation Sage
-1 Birchlore Rangers
-1 Heritage Druid
-1 Quirion Ranger
-1 Nettle Sentinel
-2 Glimpse of Nature
Trying to learn from this as preparation for Prague GP:
* I should tweak my sideboard better and learn what to side out and in what matchups. I feel like my sideboard needs at least Pithing Needle.
* I should probably lower the amount of maindeck Natural Order into 3 and try to fit Sylvan Library to somewhere in 75.
* I think going for chaos elves is out of question since that list needs Gaddock Teeg and Savannah (in addition to Sylvan Library) and I dunno if I want to spend that much money just to play Teeg.
Any tips appreciated.
BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes)
Legacy:
BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I shrugged and said I don't have a deck.
That was not an acceptable answer.
So 10 minutes later I have this monogreen tribal deck and I'm just trying to get the feel for it as I goldfish it over and over.
I get the bye and play against fish and jund, going 1-2 against 2 guys who have played their decks before.Notably awesome plays included using Wirewood Symbiote to save my Visionary from a toxic deluge so I can topdeck a natural order to go with my remaining Nettle Sentinels.Also, Glimpse of Nature is super awesome.
But I really like this deck. I usually play spell based combos and blue tempo, but I think I should invest in this deck. It's super fun. I've been playing with a few proxies around the house until all the pieces are mine. Might be a few years.
I do have questions- what gives Wren's Run Packmaster such an edge? Should I play it? Why does playing without Natural Order (Chaos Elves) do better against Miracles?
On the flipside, Natural Order opens you up for 2-for-1s. It gives the deck more speed against faster decks like Storm, but is a liability against countermagic.
The two builds are therefore at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to attacking a meta.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I didn't think of that part of elves, the deck seems next to useless when you only have one creature, so that extra body could be the difference when your Packmaster gets wrathed.
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
I play kiki chord in modern, but I want to play a legacy creature combo/toolbox deck. Would this be the right choice?
It's a similar argument against Ruric Thar, The Unbowed: why dissuade them from casting non-creature spells when you can immediately stop them from continuing to play?
Sure we can come up with corner cases where a particular alternate card like Ruric or Wurm could be better, but that's not really the point. I'd be really interested in common matchups where these other cards would be better than just dropping the hoof.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Eh... last weekend, I had 4 creatures in play, casted NO. My opponent bolted a pair in response so all I got was an elf and hoof and still lost. game two, I NO, again the delver casted an instant that hit two bodies. Rurik Thar hit the table... And the player said..... oh. I dropped him from 19 to 11 in one turn and he couldn't bolt Thar twice or he'd die.
@TheAller: I can kind of see the argument for Ruric against Miracles, except you're probably better off without NO against them to begin with (and siding in e.g. Abrupt Decay instead). If you side out NO, that in turn decreases the number of chances you'll get to find Ruric and cheat him out.
I could see Ruric (and not hoof) being useful in the early game against storm if it can be fetched with NO, but coming from the Chaos Elves perspective that's not something that would be open to me anyway. Perhaps my skepticism makes more sense through that lens. Or maybe I'm nuts.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Here's my current list:
3x Birchlore Rangers
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
3x Priest of Titania
3x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (10)
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Natural Order
4x Duress
1x Elvish Archdruid
1x Essence Warden
4x Krosan Grip
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Thoughtseize
1x Wren's Run Packmaster
Any tips on the sideboard?
Also, what are your thoughts on Benefactor's Draught from the new Commander set? Seems a card for a more all-in combo build, right?
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Modern
Small Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-03-15-small-zoo/)
Green/White Hatebears (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-02-15-hate/)
Legacy
Affinity (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stega/)
Commander
Heavenly Inferno Kaalia of the Vast (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/heavenly-inferno-revised/)
That's a Handful Nekusar, the Mindrazer (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thats-a-handful/)
Uprising Sliver Overlord (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/up-rising/)
Retired Decks
Jundassic (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jundassic/)
Melira Pod (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-09-14-melira-pod/)
Dark Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-01-15-dark-naya-zoo/)
Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-10-14-my-zoo/)
Modern
Small Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-03-15-small-zoo/)
Green/White Hatebears (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-02-15-hate/)
Legacy
Affinity (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stega/)
Commander
Heavenly Inferno Kaalia of the Vast (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/heavenly-inferno-revised/)
That's a Handful Nekusar, the Mindrazer (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thats-a-handful/)
Uprising Sliver Overlord (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/up-rising/)
Retired Decks
Jundassic (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jundassic/)
Melira Pod (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-09-14-melira-pod/)
Dark Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-01-15-dark-naya-zoo/)
Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-10-14-my-zoo/)
Creatures
1x [[Llanowar Elves]] (going to be replaced with [[Birchlore Ranger]]
4x [[Deathrite Shaman]]
4x [[Heritage Druid]]
4x [[Nettle Sentinel]]
4x [[Quirion Ranger]]
4x [[Wirewood Symbiote]]
4x [[Elvish Visionary]]
1x [[Reclamation Sage]]
2x [[Craterhoof Behemoth]]
Spells
4x [[Green Sun's Zenith]]
3x [[Natural Order]]
4x [[Beck//Call]] (going to replace with [[Glimpse of Nature]] once i get the funds for them)
Lands
1x [[Misty Rainforest]]
4x [[Verdant Catacombs]]
4x [[Windswept Heath]]
1x [[Dryad Arbor]]
1x [[Pendelhaven]] (going to be replaced with 1 [[Dryad Arbor]])
1x [[Breeding Pool]]
2x [[Overgrown Tomb]]
2x [[Swamp]]
5x [[Forest]]
Sideboard
2x [[Pithing Needle]]
2x [[Thoughtseize]]
1x [[Scavenging Ooze]]
1x [[Thrun, the Last Troll]] (going to be replaced with [[Progenitus]])
1x [[Ruric Thar, the Unbowed]]
2x [[Surgical Extraction]]
4x [[Abrupt Decay]] (going to replace 1 with a [[Natural Order]])
1x [[Beast Within]] (going to be replaced with [[Reclamation Sage]])
1x [[Stain the Mind]] (going to be replaced with [[Gaddock Teeg]]
Modern
Small Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-03-15-small-zoo/)
Green/White Hatebears (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-02-15-hate/)
Legacy
Affinity (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stega/)
Commander
Heavenly Inferno Kaalia of the Vast (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/heavenly-inferno-revised/)
That's a Handful Nekusar, the Mindrazer (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thats-a-handful/)
Uprising Sliver Overlord (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/up-rising/)
Retired Decks
Jundassic (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jundassic/)
Melira Pod (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-09-14-melira-pod/)
Dark Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-01-15-dark-naya-zoo/)
Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-10-14-my-zoo/)