I can't tell you anything about Packmaster, I've been asking around about that one myself. I put one into my 75 the last time I played just to see how it runs, but it never came up. From what I hear, it's just a good mid-size value creature for grindy games where you can't combo off. I know that I've wanted a good mid-size guy to Green Sun for when I've got about 4-5 mana, but I can't tell you why this is the one everyone has picked.
I can. Packmaster is used for grinding games where your opponent just cannot win in a single go. It is chosen mostly because of most of the removal spells in the format that matter cannot kill it (Decay, Bolt, Liliana, etc.). She is perfect against Jund and Sultai, with Sultai only having the ability to counter her. Her wolves stay if she dies, but if she lives they can take out any ground threat (Mainly goyfs and Taigurs [cant remember his name])
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Thanks for the responses guys, that helped a lot. I've still got to study the meta a bit more before I can get back into competitive play, but it definitely helps to know what I need to to be packing in my board.
So it's basically good in the same matchups as Progenitus? When you can't get off a Natural Order, Packmaster is sort of the Plan B?
Essentially yes. It is also good in the main so if you cannot draw a natural order but have enough mana for a "medium threat" can put it out with a GSZ. Her + Cradle on the field is such a good feeling ^^
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I think elves is still a top tier deck and is likely stronger post banning but it will still take some time for the meta to develop. Elves has never been the best deck in legacy, but it's always been up there. It's also a very diverse format with all sorts of strange brews able to take down a tournament.
Yo guys, are we still a tier 1 deck or not? I haven't seen Elves in any top 8's recently and it is kind of disappointing.
The U/R Delver thing was painful and drove the deck under for a while. It is recovering well now though and it's going back to its previous position in the format.
So my Meta currently feels like it's infest with Miracles (2-3 players in a pool of no more than 12-13) Is there something I can do to try and be more proactive in beating it, or should I just put Elves aside for the time being?
I find that packmaster helps a lot in the miracles matchup. This is for a few reasons.
1) If left unanswered it can start to put massive pressure with the tokens and can win by itself.
2) It allows you to not overextend into a terminus. You may want another creature with it but it shouldn't be gg if they cast a terminus.
3) It is out of burn range (if they splash red for it).
4) Its a hard cmc for them to counter with top.
5) If they do remove it you get your creature that you championed back (and maybe an added card if you championed a visionary).
6) The mana cost is low enough to cast at almost any gamestate and you dont need to tutor for it but even if you do, gsz for it only costs 5 which is better than 9 for hoof. Not to mention that with all the wraths and counters they have you may have an almost empty board so it may be better to go for this than hoof.
If you have any abrupt decays they can help to get rid of a top if they use the draw ability to try and counter something of yours casting 1. The biggest threat in this matchup is not counterbalance but instead top. Top allows them to manipulate their draws, and float answers that they need to your stuff on top of their deck. I would also say if you have any reclamation sages sb to board them in because they can get rid of counterbalence, top or set up for a decay on the top and any other pesky artifacts or enchantments.
There have been times that I have boarded out all of my hoofs for ruric and other targets that dont require too many creatures and can just win on their own. I actually don't like progenitus in this matchup as he is answered pretty easy by them and he allows them to do what they want (unlike ruric). I have even boarded out most glimpses but i would recommend taking out the natural orders first or atleast half of them so you dont get blown out by having to sac the creature and get it countered. If you can fire off some bait spells to see if the way is clear if they have just an active counterbalance then you may be able to glimpse, but dont make the glimpse the deciding factor of whether you keep the hand or not.
Green Sun's Zenith is our best friend in this matchup because it allows us to play around counterbalance by overpaying for whatever card you are looking for ( they only have a few things that cost 4 (Jace (if they have it but they should) and nothing costing 5 that I can think of).
Also discard should not come in because they like to float their threats and good cards ontop of their deck via top and use them when they need to. So unless you get lucky or play a mediocre miracles player (which i wouldn't bank on) dont bring in discard.
I keep thinking there's a card that allows us to untap a land. Its not Voyaging Satyr. The creature I'm thinking of doesn't tap to use its ability. I thought Quirion Ranger was it, but I reread the card and realized it untaps creatures. It's not that useful in combo elves.
Is there such a creature allow us to untap lands? I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in a combo elves list yet.
I keep thinking there's a card that allows us to untap a land. Its not Voyaging Satyr. The creature I'm thinking of doesn't tap to use its ability. I thought Quirion Ranger was it, but I reread the card and realized it untaps creatures. It's not that useful in combo elves.
Is there such a creature allow us to untap lands? I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in a combo elves list yet.
I think your mixing up the untap effect with Quirion Ranger targeting Dryad Arbor. I don't know of any elf that untaps any land.
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I keep thinking there's a card that allows us to untap a land. Its not Voyaging Satyr. The creature I'm thinking of doesn't tap to use its ability. I thought Quirion Ranger was it, but I reread the card and realized it untaps creatures. It's not that useful in combo elves.
Is there such a creature allow us to untap lands? I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in a combo elves list yet.
Well, here's everything with untap target land in its rules text. Sadly, nearly all of them tap, and the only one that doesn't bounces a land you control as part of a cost instead.
There's stuff like Seedborn Muse if you want to untap lands more indiscriminately. Sadly, they're often more expensive.
Maybe you're misremembering what Quirion Ranger can pull off--it can effectively untap a Forest you control without tapping if you haven't done your land drop for the turn (and you have no lands in hand). You tap a Forest, bounce it, then play it (untapped).
(Sorry--I don't know why links are broken at the moment.)
I keep thinking there's a card that allows us to untap a land. Its not Voyaging Satyr. The creature I'm thinking of doesn't tap to use its ability. I thought Quirion Ranger was it, but I reread the card and realized it untaps creatures. It's not that useful in combo elves.
Is there such a creature allow us to untap lands? I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in a combo elves list yet.
What's not useful in combo elves? You can't be talking about Quirion Ranger because it's one of the core cards. It does a TON of work for this deck - makes hands without Shaman or Llanowar keepable, allows you to untap creatures to block, and the "activate only once per turn ability" can be totally abused with Wirewood Symbiote.
Hello,
what do you think about red splash for some sideboard cards like a Red Elemental Blast or Slaughter Games?
I saw it in the decklist from Japan.
Well Legacy is the place where anything can happen. I don't see a problem with it. The Slaughter Games would kill every deck Elves is weak against. Some examples are: OmniTell (name Show and Tell), Miracles (name Terminus. Actually they are the biggest things I can think of to hit. Then we could JUND THEM OUT haha.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I like this new Shaman. She's easy to fetch with GSZ and can be repeatedly bounced and replayed with Wirewood Symbiote. The issue is the Black in the mana cost. DRS is great and we've got Bayous but running Shaman of the Pack as a win con would mean Elves would have to go up to 3 or 4 Bayous to consistently recast her. I don't think she'll replace Hoof as when the Hoof stomps, it stomps hard. Shaman seems good for games you expect to be grindy and have the time to repeatedly bounce and recast her.
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"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
I had a pretty good night last night on FNM with this deck but I lost to Lands (first turn tabernacle and 2 punishing fire on second game). I also lost to Burn, which is pretty much just a race. What do you guys usually board out (and in) against Burn btw?
I like this new Shaman. She's easy to fetch with GSZ and can be repeatedly bounced and replayed with Wirewood Symbiote. The issue is the Black in the mana cost. DRS is great and we've got Bayous but running Shaman of the Pack as a win con would mean Elves would have to go up to 3 or 4 Bayous to consistently recast her. I don't think she'll replace Hoof as when the Hoof stomps, it stomps hard. Shaman seems good for games you expect to be grindy and have the time to repeatedly bounce and recast her.
I like this new Shaman. She's easy to fetch with GSZ and can be repeatedly bounced and replayed with Wirewood Symbiote. The issue is the Black in the mana cost. DRS is great and we've got Bayous but running Shaman of the Pack as a win con would mean Elves would have to go up to 3 or 4 Bayous to consistently recast her. I don't think she'll replace Hoof as when the Hoof stomps, it stomps hard. Shaman seems good for games you expect to be grindy and have the time to repeatedly bounce and recast her.
I can. Packmaster is used for grinding games where your opponent just cannot win in a single go. It is chosen mostly because of most of the removal spells in the format that matter cannot kill it (Decay, Bolt, Liliana, etc.). She is perfect against Jund and Sultai, with Sultai only having the ability to counter her. Her wolves stay if she dies, but if she lives they can take out any ground threat (Mainly goyfs and Taigurs [cant remember his name])
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Legacy Burn
NO Combo Elves
Reanimator
Trades
Burn Primer
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Where are you looking? If you go onto mtgtop8 you can see elves on the top 8 of the last 2 major tournaments plus some other smaller ones.
3rd place in SCG Open: Indianapolis
5th/8th place in the 3rd Big Magic Open
There were no other large tournaments in between.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=38&meta=39&f=LE
I think elves is still a top tier deck and is likely stronger post banning but it will still take some time for the meta to develop. Elves has never been the best deck in legacy, but it's always been up there. It's also a very diverse format with all sorts of strange brews able to take down a tournament.
The U/R Delver thing was painful and drove the deck under for a while. It is recovering well now though and it's going back to its previous position in the format.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
1) If left unanswered it can start to put massive pressure with the tokens and can win by itself.
2) It allows you to not overextend into a terminus. You may want another creature with it but it shouldn't be gg if they cast a terminus.
3) It is out of burn range (if they splash red for it).
4) Its a hard cmc for them to counter with top.
5) If they do remove it you get your creature that you championed back (and maybe an added card if you championed a visionary).
6) The mana cost is low enough to cast at almost any gamestate and you dont need to tutor for it but even if you do, gsz for it only costs 5 which is better than 9 for hoof. Not to mention that with all the wraths and counters they have you may have an almost empty board so it may be better to go for this than hoof.
If you have any abrupt decays they can help to get rid of a top if they use the draw ability to try and counter something of yours casting 1. The biggest threat in this matchup is not counterbalance but instead top. Top allows them to manipulate their draws, and float answers that they need to your stuff on top of their deck. I would also say if you have any reclamation sages sb to board them in because they can get rid of counterbalence, top or set up for a decay on the top and any other pesky artifacts or enchantments.
There have been times that I have boarded out all of my hoofs for ruric and other targets that dont require too many creatures and can just win on their own. I actually don't like progenitus in this matchup as he is answered pretty easy by them and he allows them to do what they want (unlike ruric). I have even boarded out most glimpses but i would recommend taking out the natural orders first or atleast half of them so you dont get blown out by having to sac the creature and get it countered. If you can fire off some bait spells to see if the way is clear if they have just an active counterbalance then you may be able to glimpse, but dont make the glimpse the deciding factor of whether you keep the hand or not.
Green Sun's Zenith is our best friend in this matchup because it allows us to play around counterbalance by overpaying for whatever card you are looking for ( they only have a few things that cost 4 (Jace (if they have it but they should) and nothing costing 5 that I can think of).
Also discard should not come in because they like to float their threats and good cards ontop of their deck via top and use them when they need to. So unless you get lucky or play a mediocre miracles player (which i wouldn't bank on) dont bring in discard.
Hope this helps.
Is there such a creature allow us to untap lands? I could be wrong since I haven't seen it in a combo elves list yet.
I think your mixing up the untap effect with Quirion Ranger targeting Dryad Arbor. I don't know of any elf that untaps any land.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Well, here's everything with untap target land in its rules text. Sadly, nearly all of them tap, and the only one that doesn't bounces a land you control as part of a cost instead.
There's stuff like Seedborn Muse if you want to untap lands more indiscriminately. Sadly, they're often more expensive.
Maybe you're misremembering what Quirion Ranger can pull off--it can effectively untap a Forest you control without tapping if you haven't done your land drop for the turn (and you have no lands in hand). You tap a Forest, bounce it, then play it (untapped).
(Sorry--I don't know why links are broken at the moment.)
What's not useful in combo elves? You can't be talking about Quirion Ranger because it's one of the core cards. It does a TON of work for this deck - makes hands without Shaman or Llanowar keepable, allows you to untap creatures to block, and the "activate only once per turn ability" can be totally abused with Wirewood Symbiote.
Legacy Burn
NO Combo Elves
Reanimator
Trades
Burn Primer
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
Can any1 help me solving this problem?
No Pendlehaven?
As for the thread itself, combo elves has been discussed about more over on the source. Hundreds of pages there.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Well Legacy is the place where anything can happen. I don't see a problem with it. The Slaughter Games would kill every deck Elves is weak against. Some examples are: OmniTell (name Show and Tell), Miracles (name Terminus. Actually they are the biggest things I can think of to hit. Then we could JUND THEM OUT haha.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
CG
-Anonymous
Birchlore Rangers makes any color mana. I think Shaman of the Pack is insane.
—Barrin, Principia
Now trading on deckbox.org as well.
Agreed. Never found it difficult to get multiple colours of black mana in this deck.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon