I did some testing with a friend of the "all-in" with Emrakul & Griselbrand vs. a more traditional approach (Sire of Insanity/Chancellor), and want to work on a mono-B midrange approach with hand disruption and Lake of the Dead.
So, yeah, the all-in is definitely more prone to counterspells and the like. We didn't do any siding, since I'm still building the deck, but having the T1 kill in that way does somewhat feel like playing Sneak & Breach, except with less mana required, and thus feels faster and more resilient/less susceptible to stuff like D&T, Delver, Miracles, Grixis Control, and Stoneblade. While it's slightly problematic that only two of your spells are instant-speed revival, meaning you likely have to choose Griselbrand to Entomb and revive, first - either with an instant or a sorcery-speed reanimate spell - you can definitely save your Shallow Graves and Goryos for Emrakul.
The traditional Reanimator build with Chancellors is very strong, and I can see why it's difficult to play around for your opponents. That said, sometimes, all it takes is the right hand or sideboard hate, and that's what I'm kind of trying to experiment with and get a feel for: How to make Reanimator viable, again. With DRS no longer in the meta, I'm honestly surprised this deck hasn't made more of a comeback. So, let's look at the midrange option:
I think we could probably explore something mono-B with hand disruption (Thoughtseize, Unmask, Collective Brutality, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach) to push ourselves into a good spot a few turns into the game where we then drop a Lake of the Dead and start either reanimating stuff like Grave Titan, Massacre Wurm, Phyrexian Obliterator, and Noxious Gearhulk, or just downright hardcasting it (in addition to, of course, Griselbrand, if there's room for him). I don't quite have the bigger dudes needed to make this happen, yet, but it seems like a great way to control the state of the game before you go off, have a backup plan for grave hate, and have resilience to just about anything that isn't a Wasteland/Port (and perhaps still even then, if you do a good enough job keeping your opponent on their back foot).
This will require some time for me to actually get the cards, and then also need extensive testing. I'll report back with results, likely in a few months from now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I am a former legacy player who moved to modern, but still sometimes visit the threads here for pleasant nostalgia.
Looking at the latest pages of discussion. Noticed that no one seems to be using Jin-Gitaxias Core Augur. Is he not good enough for this deck anymore?
Same, but mostly EDH. I want to get into Modern, but haven't had the time.
I think Jin hasn't seen real play since Griselbrand was printed. I remember initially that people were running a couple of each, but eventually lists were just 4 Griselbrand, utility targets, and no Jins. The reasoning (when I was playing) was that if your opponent has Karakas already out or a Swords to Plowshares ready that you don't have a counter for, Griselbrand still has a game-winning impact, where Jin probably does nothing.
He just kind of got out-powered by Griselbrand, I think.
EDH is a good format too. Many of my friends play that.
Ok, I guess that is a nice explanation. People can respond to Karakas and removal with Gris draw 7 ability, while Jin just bounced or dies to the removal. The larger body, flying and lifelink of gris is also probably a factor that was considered.
EDH is a good format too. Many of my friends play that.
Ok, I guess that is a nice explanation. People can respond to Karakas and removal with Gris draw 7 ability, while Jin just bounced or dies to the removal. The larger body, flying and lifelink of gris is also probably a factor that was considered.
Definitely the 7/7 flying/lifelink was nothing to sneeze at. Griselbrand could easily win games on its own, and in many of first games (I won with it plenty of times against Fish and Delver, which were popular when I played).
Yeah, I did some testing with Jin-Gitaxias where I deliberately made the decision to Entomb him over Griselbrand to see the impact, and every time I did, I just wanted to have Griselbrand, instead.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just one more thing. Isn't Jin Gitaxias ability a Mind twist on the opponent? Or maybe legacy is full of removal right now, he does not live long enough for the mind twist to happen?
Just one more thing. Isn't Jin Gitaxias ability a Mind twist on the opponent? Or maybe legacy is full of removal right now, he does not live long enough for the mind twist to happen?
I think it's that the Mind Twist aspect doesn't matter.
In the event they don't have removal, they just kind of lose to Griselbrand. They're not going to be able to race you, because 7/7 lifelink (on turn two) is just too much, even if you're set back by an 8-life reanimate. It's hard to imagine how they'll race you (unless they're dredge, and then mind twisting them doesn't exactly help).
In the event they do have removal, it's almost certainly instant-speed, and you won't mind twist them with Jin.
It's weird to say it, but in this kind of game, Mind Twisting your opponent's hand if they don't have removal is actually irrelevant. The name of the game against reanimator was always 'disruption/removal or bust'. None of the rest of what they have matters.
RB reanimator ..... the last week or two ive been examining the current meta trying to optimize my build .... It seems like everyone is running 3-4x Grislebrand.
So my question boils down to, how is a Turn 1 Sire of insanity not better than a T1 Grislebrand?
So in my assessment , I feel like sire of insanity should get the 3 or 4 remaining creature spots, as that feels like a better G1 win con.
Yeah I've been playing against reanimator (a lot) over the years, as two of my testing buddies play reanimator. One of the reasons I don't BTW, but I view reanimator as a deck we all have to be able to beat, or at least plan to beat.
Anyway, my answer to this question is all about the roll. If you're on the play, T1 Sire of Insanity is a great play against most decks.
If you're on the draw (or turn 2) however, I feel Sire is halfway likely to be answered, ie Swords to Plowshares etc.
Sire is no doubt a great threat that dodges Karakas, but I just feel the prevalence of cheap removal skews the argument towards G-man.
A question to other veterans of the deck. Is Iona, Shield of Emeria still relevant to put in the main? Some days ago I was reading at MTG The Source in their reanimator thread... someone there said he did not use Iona in the main, only in sideboard. And during games he sided Iona only once.
A question to other veterans of the deck. Is Iona, Shield of Emeria still relevant to put in the main? Some days ago I was reading at MTG The Source in their reanimator thread... someone there said he did not use Iona in the main, only in sideboard. And during games he sided Iona only once.
When I was playing, I didn't even run it as a sideboard card, despite owning a copy. It can be useful against High Tide or Storm, but, I found the vast majority of the time, those decks got hamstrung by Thoughtseize and the rest of your disruption. Also, reanimating Griselbrand and drawing more disruption pushes them well into losing.
I did not have many matchups with these; they were not popular decks when I was playing, and they would simply fail to launch a not-insignificant amount of time. I'd be interested to see if someone else had different experiences.
I'm new to playing Reanimator in legacy, and I'm still trying to parse out some of the interactions, but all the information I saw while building it only has her as a 1-of in the side, I imagine because of the diversity of decks available right now means she's not an optimal play in the main. Considering the frequency of which I was Turn-1-ing out a creature, I can see how it's an auto-win against mono colored decks and decks that splash for support but not removal. No amount of disruption is better than simply being unable to cast spells.
The card I'm having real difficulty understanding is the 2-of Grave Titan in the side. I don't see where there's any advantage to putting him into play over any of the other threats in the deck, and I really want those board spots for artifact removal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern! Dredge RBG
Modern! Burn (RW, RWG, RBG , RB ... what can I say, I like variety in my BBQ )
Legacy! Burn RW
EDH! Uril the Miststalker RWG
It's extremely painful game 1 on the play to have Iona as the only viable target and blindly guessing a color.
Grave Titan does a lot of good things.
- not a legend, and cannot be bounced with karakas
- dodges edict effects if the trigger resolves
- races most any deck
- @6 CMC is castable off of dark ritual (note some also side in Lake of the Dead with multiple titans as a backup plan vs. leyline.
How do people feel about Warped Devotion as a sideboard card?
The reason I am considering it is because typically an unsummon is worse than a murder whe NBC the opponent targets our creature. This means them bouncing our creature lets us put it back in our graveyard.
paper sneak and show player but always wanted to try reanimator. So with this covid epedemic going arund I got a rental service on mtgo and decided to try the deck.
Haven't played much yet but just figured I'd post here. How do you approach playing against other combo decks?
How do people feel about Warped Devotion as a sideboard card?
The reason I am considering it is because typically an unsummon is worse than a murder whe NBC the opponent targets our creature. This means them bouncing our creature lets us put it back in our graveyard.
It's extremely painful game 1 on the play to have Iona as the only viable target and blindly guessing a color.
Grave Titan does a lot of good things.
- not a legend, and cannot be bounced with karakas
- dodges edict effects if the trigger resolves
- races most any deck
- @6 CMC is castable off of dark ritual (note some also side in Lake of the Dead with multiple titans as a backup plan vs. leyline.
+you do not fold to surgical "snapcaster" if you split up your threats
Haven't played much yet but just figured I'd post here. How do you approach playing against other combo decks?
be faster and respond to their hate
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I did some testing with a friend of the "all-in" with Emrakul & Griselbrand vs. a more traditional approach (Sire of Insanity/Chancellor), and want to work on a mono-B midrange approach with hand disruption and Lake of the Dead.
So, yeah, the all-in is definitely more prone to counterspells and the like. We didn't do any siding, since I'm still building the deck, but having the T1 kill in that way does somewhat feel like playing Sneak & Breach, except with less mana required, and thus feels faster and more resilient/less susceptible to stuff like D&T, Delver, Miracles, Grixis Control, and Stoneblade. While it's slightly problematic that only two of your spells are instant-speed revival, meaning you likely have to choose Griselbrand to Entomb and revive, first - either with an instant or a sorcery-speed reanimate spell - you can definitely save your Shallow Graves and Goryos for Emrakul.
The traditional Reanimator build with Chancellors is very strong, and I can see why it's difficult to play around for your opponents. That said, sometimes, all it takes is the right hand or sideboard hate, and that's what I'm kind of trying to experiment with and get a feel for: How to make Reanimator viable, again. With DRS no longer in the meta, I'm honestly surprised this deck hasn't made more of a comeback. So, let's look at the midrange option:
I think we could probably explore something mono-B with hand disruption (Thoughtseize, Unmask, Collective Brutality, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach) to push ourselves into a good spot a few turns into the game where we then drop a Lake of the Dead and start either reanimating stuff like Grave Titan, Massacre Wurm, Phyrexian Obliterator, and Noxious Gearhulk, or just downright hardcasting it (in addition to, of course, Griselbrand, if there's room for him). I don't quite have the bigger dudes needed to make this happen, yet, but it seems like a great way to control the state of the game before you go off, have a backup plan for grave hate, and have resilience to just about anything that isn't a Wasteland/Port (and perhaps still even then, if you do a good enough job keeping your opponent on their back foot).
This will require some time for me to actually get the cards, and then also need extensive testing. I'll report back with results, likely in a few months from now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Looking at the latest pages of discussion. Noticed that no one seems to be using Jin-Gitaxias Core Augur. Is he not good enough for this deck anymore?
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Same, but mostly EDH. I want to get into Modern, but haven't had the time.
I think Jin hasn't seen real play since Griselbrand was printed. I remember initially that people were running a couple of each, but eventually lists were just 4 Griselbrand, utility targets, and no Jins. The reasoning (when I was playing) was that if your opponent has Karakas already out or a Swords to Plowshares ready that you don't have a counter for, Griselbrand still has a game-winning impact, where Jin probably does nothing.
He just kind of got out-powered by Griselbrand, I think.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
Ok, I guess that is a nice explanation. People can respond to Karakas and removal with Gris draw 7 ability, while Jin just bounced or dies to the removal. The larger body, flying and lifelink of gris is also probably a factor that was considered.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
In the event they don't have removal, they just kind of lose to Griselbrand. They're not going to be able to race you, because 7/7 lifelink (on turn two) is just too much, even if you're set back by an 8-life reanimate. It's hard to imagine how they'll race you (unless they're dredge, and then mind twisting them doesn't exactly help).
In the event they do have removal, it's almost certainly instant-speed, and you won't mind twist them with Jin.
It's weird to say it, but in this kind of game, Mind Twisting your opponent's hand if they don't have removal is actually irrelevant. The name of the game against reanimator was always 'disruption/removal or bust'. None of the rest of what they have matters.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
Yeah I've been playing against reanimator (a lot) over the years, as two of my testing buddies play reanimator. One of the reasons I don't BTW, but I view reanimator as a deck we all have to be able to beat, or at least plan to beat.
Anyway, my answer to this question is all about the roll. If you're on the play, T1 Sire of Insanity is a great play against most decks.
If you're on the draw (or turn 2) however, I feel Sire is halfway likely to be answered, ie Swords to Plowshares etc.
Sire is no doubt a great threat that dodges Karakas, but I just feel the prevalence of cheap removal skews the argument towards G-man.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I did not have many matchups with these; they were not popular decks when I was playing, and they would simply fail to launch a not-insignificant amount of time. I'd be interested to see if someone else had different experiences.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
The card I'm having real difficulty understanding is the 2-of Grave Titan in the side. I don't see where there's any advantage to putting him into play over any of the other threats in the deck, and I really want those board spots for artifact removal.
Modern! Burn (RW, RWG, RBG , RB ... what can I say, I like variety in my BBQ )
Legacy! Burn RW
EDH! Uril the Miststalker RWG
Grave Titan does a lot of good things.
- not a legend, and cannot be bounced with karakas
- dodges edict effects if the trigger resolves
- races most any deck
- @6 CMC is castable off of dark ritual (note some also side in Lake of the Dead with multiple titans as a backup plan vs. leyline.
The reason I am considering it is because typically an unsummon is worse than a murder whe NBC the opponent targets our creature. This means them bouncing our creature lets us put it back in our graveyard.
Is it worth it or too slow?
Haven't played much yet but just figured I'd post here. How do you approach playing against other combo decks?
there are way better cards to solve this problem
+you do not fold to surgical "snapcaster" if you split up your threats
be faster and respond to their hate