The deck I lost to was a Tendrils deck. 1st game I just couldn't get going fast enough and second game I kept drawing lands. Second match was against infect and I just out paced him and third match was against red burn. 1st game I steam rolled him and second game he side boarded in Leyline of the Void and I side boarded in Echoing Truths and more Show and Tells but I never got any. Third match I got the Show and Tells and was able to drop a Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and reanimate his Snapcaster Mage to my side and beat him that way; was close though.
Trying out this deck, tell me what you think. First of all Im defending my inclusion of Emrakul in the main board for two reasons... I have found in several games the idea of 'Jin and win' doesnt always work, Ive actually ran into problems where I get chumped or thwarted and just deck out. A one of will help main board protection for this and also protect you g1 (and game 2) from painter servant combos. He is only bad if he is in your opening hand, but can be flushed away with brainstorms.
Also I like the idea of a few Lim Dul's vault for searching game 2 when the Show and Tells come in for Emrakul... just sayin!
Lastly I dont own any Polluted Delta, Im working on that!
I've never ever played with 4 Ponders in Reanimator, although I did play with 2 when Misstep was legal, and for about a month after its banning.
Basically my list was the same as it is currently, but the Misdirection and maindeck Flusterstorm were Ponders.
Frankly, I was finding Ponder underwhelming.
In game 1, I found to my expense that you can't afford to keep a hand that relies on Ponder to hit one of the combo pieces. Ponder was only good when I was using it to find disruption or a redundant combo piece to beat my opponent's disruption - so I might as well play more disruption instead.
In sideboard games, I was siding out Ponder in virtually every game, so I decided to just take it out for more maindeck disruption.
It's possible that I'm mulliganing a bit more often without Ponder than previously (though I haven't played enough games to be sure), but I'm also able to go off on turn 2/3 more often, thanks to the additional maindeck disruption.
In game 1 you really want a free counter to protect your turn 2/3 combo, and Misdirection is essentially your fifth copy of Force of Will.
Obviously, the cost is not negligible and I found that even 2 Misdirections is often too many. But playing 1 gives you a slight edge over decks that play only Force, and is very good against discard spells (and decent against removal).
Overall, I'm pretty happy with it.
Agreed. Ponder does feel underwhelming and even annoying during my playtesting. I'll try running more disruption then and see how it works. Thanks~
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This should help people out who are addressing me in further posts: My name is Tenkai. It's not Tokobo. Thank you. =)
*chuckle* I love when my opponents forget Legendary status. Reminds me of the time someone played a second Vendilion Clique against me and was surprised when I informed him that they were both dead now. Sad thing was, he would have beat me to death with the first if he had played the second.
Trying out this deck, tell me what you think. First of all Im defending my inclusion of Emrakul in the main board for two reasons... I have found in several games the idea of 'Jin and win' doesnt always work, Ive actually ran into problems where I get chumped or thwarted and just deck out. A one of will help main board protection for this and also protect you g1 (and game 2) from painter servant combos. He is only bad if he is in your opening hand, but can be flushed away with brainstorms.
Also I like the idea of a few Lim Dul's vault for searching game 2 when the Show and Tells come in for Emrakul... just sayin!
Lastly I dont own any Polluted Delta, Im working on that!
Yes, you can, but as I said a couple of posts ago, you end up with a subpar version of Sneak Show that also loses to grave hate.
Playing Emrakul maindeck in Reanimator makes absolutely no sense.
I wish this were a social media site so I could +1 or like or upvote this all day long.
I understand the desire to innovate, and I'm the first person to want to get my hands on some new "tech" but Emrakul in reanimator is not tech, it's bad. It's like playing Stifle in Dredge to counter a Tormod's Crypt activation.
I like your list, Morningstar, but I'm curious about the lack of Ponder.
In the last few tournaments I've played, I've found myself getting mana screwed a lot, which has often led to games that I lost which I could have won fairly easily had I had the lands. I was running 18 lands, as well.
Basically, I was thinking of running Ponder to help dig for lands/anti-hate.
Maybe it's just bad luck on my part, seeing how your deck is successful with 17 lands and no Ponders.
EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the trick with Exhume and Entomb when facing a card like Tormod's Crypt, again? Is it cast Exhume when you have a creature in the yard, then they Crypt in response, and then you cast Entomb after Crypt's ability resolves but not before Exhume resolves?
Personally, I'm a huge fan of Ponder, as it lets you find your sideboard cards more often, and let you sculpt the right combination of protection and combo.
My local meta is infested with the delver tempo decks, and the sphinx is amazing against them, hence the second one in the sideboard. I know a lot of people like 4 Show and Tell in the sideboard, but I never boarded them all in, so it seemed like a wasted slot. I used to have a Phantasmal Image in the board, and I want to find room for some kind of large creature hate (maybe Sheoldred?), but it may just not be worth it right now.
You do realize that Researcher is strictly worse than Study in this deck, right? ...
Hapless is definitely not strictly worse, and I adjust the mix to what is best for the decks I expect to face each week. He has the following upsides:
1) He can be played one turn and activated another, leaving a smaller window for your creature to be removed from your graveyard.
2) He often gets to fog an attack. This can be the difference in the game against some aggro decks.
3) He cannot be duressed or spell pierced, as he is a creature.
4) He can help you avoid edicts by having an extra creature you can play.
5) He turns extra reanimation spells into discard outlets (by reanimating him first).
Those are all general use upsides, and there are additional upsides in certain matches:
5) He removes bridge from below from a dredge player's graveyard
6) He can block goblin lackey
7) He cannot be curscatcher-ed (cursecaught?)
In comparison, he has the following downsides:
1) He only draw 1 card, and cannot be used as a card selection spell.
2) He can only discard 1 card, and cannot put 2 targets in the yard for use.
3) He can be pithing needled / phyrexian revokered / stifled /etc.
Personally, I find it to be about an even trade-off. I've actually debated running the split the other way even, or even 4 researcher / 1 study. It depends a ton on what matchups you expect to play against. I think a lot of people just see that 2 is less than 1 and ignore the other things he has going on. Please let me know if I am missing anything, but I've thought a lot about this slot and which card is more useful.
... 3 copies of Reanimate also seems really sub-par.
On playing only 3 reanimates, it is quite possibly correct to go back to a 4/4/2 split on out, especially with the pickup in spell snares lately. That is an easy swap, and I'll see how it works out.
You can also with careful study on turn 2 go careful study then reanimate a fatty. Just saying that is possible. This deck doesn't really need to stall against aggro. But I agree, careful study is better than researcher in almost all instances sans the rare time that one point of damage you get through with researcher matters. Study can pitch more fatties as a bonus and digs deeper. Play 4 careful study; I wish I could play 8 of that card honestly because it is literally entomb 5-8 in this deck and without careful study this deck wouldn't be remotely competitive unless it got mystical back (quite unlikely).
Reanimate is also an auto 4 of. When you're a blue player holding spell snare against this deck and the reanimator player casts reanimate you're sad inside if that reanimate resolves.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I will definitely make the switch back to 4 reanimates, but I strongly disagree that careful study is entomb 5-8. That's only true if you would be entombing for Jin-Gitaxias, which is not right in every match. I may have a different perspective on what creature to get when the other people, but study has never impressed me that much. I've been playing this deck forever though, so I think that may be an artifact of playing the mystical tutor versions of the deck for a long time. Study does what it does, but its not amazing, just good.
Researcher also plays nicely with Exhume. Granted, this interaction is better post board, where it helps get around hate. It is similar to the Exhume + Entomb trick. Exhume, Crypt you, Exhume on stack sac Researcher, dump dude, resolve Exhume.
That said, I think Careful Study is a 4-of. But, it isn't strictly better than Researcher. I used to run 3x Researchers in addition to 4x Careful Study before I started using Ponders.
Study helps you dig for lands or critical cards and sculpt your hand (much like Ponder) in addition to being an enabler. Researcher is really subpar in comparison.
Exactly what I was going to say. I've used Careful Study quite a few times for just digging purposes. Getting to see that additional card makes it superior to Hapless Researcher by a great margin.
I often run Researcher as a one-of, though, in addition to the 4 Careful Study.
She's in my SB but the more I test the deck, the more I think to simply get rid of the Sphinx and add her instead.
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11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Volrath's Stonghold doesn't do anything you really need, and colorless mana is not very useful in this deck. Also, I agree with Morningstar that you can't afford to run nonbasics, I've never gotten any use out of Urborg, and I don't think it does anything you need.
Heck, I still won't run the second swamp, as its always the worst land in the deck!
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I agree with Morningstar here. Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth doesn't make much sense in Reanimator because it's not a swamp when it's not on the battlefield so that means you can't fetch for it. You play 8 or so fetchlands for a good reason to grab the correct basic land so you can actually play around wasteland.
so, say you are lucky, and it is the correct play, you entomb/reanimate jin. he makes it to EoT. draw 7. WHIFF! you have no creatures in the top 7. What is the order of importance for keeps besides the obvious force of wills + a blue card?
I have been fooling around solo on cockatrice testing draws/turns/tempo/choices and such and this is stumping me.
I mean a FoW + daze = keep, but the rest, and i realise there are a LOT of permutations that could be gone into, but as a general rule what are you looking to keep/dump besides the obvious creature dump?
The deck I lost to was a Tendrils deck. 1st game I just couldn't get going fast enough and second game I kept drawing lands. Second match was against infect and I just out paced him and third match was against red burn. 1st game I steam rolled him and second game he side boarded in Leyline of the Void and I side boarded in Echoing Truths and more Show and Tells but I never got any. Third match I got the Show and Tells and was able to drop a Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and reanimate his Snapcaster Mage to my side and beat him that way; was close though.
Overall was a fun night!
My Deck Index
Main Decks:
Vampire
Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand
Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy
Vintage
:symu::symb::symg: Demon Oath
MUD
:symu::symr: Landstill
My Deck Index
Main Decks:
Vampire
Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand
Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy
Vintage
:symu::symb::symg: Demon Oath
MUD
:symu::symr: Landstill
Nope. Even pre-Mystical Tutor banning, even you manage to resolve them, doesn't exactly means you win.
There's still tons of removal/counters waiting
@Morningstar:
How are you feeling the lack of 4 Ponders? Is there sufficient cantrips to sculpt our hands?
Also, my past experience with Misdirection was terrible due to us pitching cards. How is it working for you?
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
Also I like the idea of a few Lim Dul's vault for searching game 2 when the Show and Tells come in for Emrakul... just sayin!
Lastly I dont own any Polluted Delta, Im working on that!
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
2 Island
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Empyrial Archangel
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
3 Duress
4 Animate Dead
4 Show and Tell
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Echoing Truth
1 Duress
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Blazing Archon
1 Angel of Despair
Agreed. Ponder does feel underwhelming and even annoying during my playtesting. I'll try running more disruption then and see how it works. Thanks~
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
My Deck Index
Main Decks:
Vampire
Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand
Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy
Vintage
:symu::symb::symg: Demon Oath
MUD
:symu::symr: Landstill
Jin is legendary
*chuckle* I love when my opponents forget Legendary status. Reminds me of the time someone played a second Vendilion Clique against me and was surprised when I informed him that they were both dead now. Sad thing was, he would have beat me to death with the first if he had played the second.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
The other problem is that Emmy can not be reanimated and MUST be shown and told into play.
My Deck Index
Main Decks:
Vampire
Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand
Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy
Vintage
:symu::symb::symg: Demon Oath
MUD
:symu::symr: Landstill
I wish this were a social media site so I could +1 or like or upvote this all day long.
I understand the desire to innovate, and I'm the first person to want to get my hands on some new "tech" but Emrakul in reanimator is not tech, it's bad. It's like playing Stifle in Dredge to counter a Tormod's Crypt activation.
In the last few tournaments I've played, I've found myself getting mana screwed a lot, which has often led to games that I lost which I could have won fairly easily had I had the lands. I was running 18 lands, as well.
Basically, I was thinking of running Ponder to help dig for lands/anti-hate.
Maybe it's just bad luck on my part, seeing how your deck is successful with 17 lands and no Ponders.
EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the trick with Exhume and Entomb when facing a card like Tormod's Crypt, again? Is it cast Exhume when you have a creature in the yard, then they Crypt in response, and then you cast Entomb after Crypt's ability resolves but not before Exhume resolves?
Modern: :symu::symb::symr: Reanimator + :symr::symg: Tron + :symu::symr: Twin
My current list is:
3 Careful Study
2 Hapless Researcher
4 Entomb
Reanimation:
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate
3 Animate Dead
Card draw / selection:
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
Protection:
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Angel of Despair
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
Lands:
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
2 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
2 Pithing Needle
3 Show and Tell
1 Coffin Purge
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Spinx of the Steel Wind
My local meta is infested with the delver tempo decks, and the sphinx is amazing against them, hence the second one in the sideboard. I know a lot of people like 4 Show and Tell in the sideboard, but I never boarded them all in, so it seemed like a wasted slot. I used to have a Phantasmal Image in the board, and I want to find room for some kind of large creature hate (maybe Sheoldred?), but it may just not be worth it right now.
Hapless is definitely not strictly worse, and I adjust the mix to what is best for the decks I expect to face each week. He has the following upsides:
1) He can be played one turn and activated another, leaving a smaller window for your creature to be removed from your graveyard.
2) He often gets to fog an attack. This can be the difference in the game against some aggro decks.
3) He cannot be duressed or spell pierced, as he is a creature.
4) He can help you avoid edicts by having an extra creature you can play.
5) He turns extra reanimation spells into discard outlets (by reanimating him first).
Those are all general use upsides, and there are additional upsides in certain matches:
5) He removes bridge from below from a dredge player's graveyard
6) He can block goblin lackey
7) He cannot be curscatcher-ed (cursecaught?)
In comparison, he has the following downsides:
1) He only draw 1 card, and cannot be used as a card selection spell.
2) He can only discard 1 card, and cannot put 2 targets in the yard for use.
3) He can be pithing needled / phyrexian revokered / stifled /etc.
Personally, I find it to be about an even trade-off. I've actually debated running the split the other way even, or even 4 researcher / 1 study. It depends a ton on what matchups you expect to play against. I think a lot of people just see that 2 is less than 1 and ignore the other things he has going on. Please let me know if I am missing anything, but I've thought a lot about this slot and which card is more useful.
On playing only 3 reanimates, it is quite possibly correct to go back to a 4/4/2 split on out, especially with the pickup in spell snares lately. That is an easy swap, and I'll see how it works out.
Reanimate is also an auto 4 of. When you're a blue player holding spell snare against this deck and the reanimator player casts reanimate you're sad inside if that reanimate resolves.
Currently Playing:
Retired
That said, I think Careful Study is a 4-of. But, it isn't strictly better than Researcher. I used to run 3x Researchers in addition to 4x Careful Study before I started using Ponders.
Exactly what I was going to say. I've used Careful Study quite a few times for just digging purposes. Getting to see that additional card makes it superior to Hapless Researcher by a great margin.
I often run Researcher as a one-of, though, in addition to the 4 Careful Study.
Sheoldred, Whispering One seems interesting, looking at it.
Modern: :symu::symb::symr: Reanimator + :symr::symg: Tron + :symu::symr: Twin
+1
She's in my SB but the more I test the deck, the more I think to simply get rid of the Sphinx and add her instead.
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
is a singleton volrath's stronghold worth a spot??
Heck, I still won't run the second swamp, as its always the worst land in the deck!
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I have been fooling around solo on cockatrice testing draws/turns/tempo/choices and such and this is stumping me.
I mean a FoW + daze = keep, but the rest, and i realise there are a LOT of permutations that could be gone into, but as a general rule what are you looking to keep/dump besides the obvious creature dump?