I'm trying to find a Manic Vandal to replace Goblin Cratermaker. I'll miss shooting Delvers, Stoneforge Mystics, and the occasional Eldrazi but those Equipment, Chalices, and Needles need to die no matter if Painter is out or not. 1x Grim Lavamancer in the MD and 1x in the SB should shore up those Delvers and Stoneforges. Also Manic Vandal sticks around to crew Copter after use, unlike Cratermaker.
I want to push damage with Copter, but I always end up with 2+ in hand with no way to properly abuse them all. I'm trimming from 4 to 3 for a slot to try new stuff.
@8bit9mm can I get that Discord link? Also, how does only 2 Ethersworn Canonist feel? I'm loathe to go below 3 because I like screwing combo with ease game 1 and meddling with Brainstorm and counterspell shenanigans.
5 MD Blasts and 1 in the SB? Just got sick of being flooded with them when the list called for 6 and 2?
I feel that canonist has been losing stock lately. I also don't always want blasts, since they're only great when you have a painter in play.
This list is really just trying some new things out and seeing how Light Up the Stage performs. It's felt good so far, though.
Canonist and Light Up the Stage have awkward interactions at best. That's probably my biggest incentive to go down to 2 Canonist.
But I'm not sure how I feel about having only 16 possible pilots for Copter.
I'm considering wedging Walking Ballista back into my 75, but I'm not sure that a 4mana+ artifact (that I can't Weld into play) will do much against anything other than DnT and Elves.
Maybe I'll play the army-in-a-can that I've been missing for so long. Pia and Kiran Nalaar? Legion Warboss doesn't force our Welders to attack, so bye bye Rabblemaster.
Canonist and Light Up the Stage have awkward interactions at best. That's probably my biggest incentive to go down to 2 Canonist.
But I'm not sure how I feel about having only 16 possible pilots for Copter.
I'm considering wedging Walking Ballista back into my 75, but I'm not sure that a 4mana+ artifact (that I can't Weld into play) will do much against anything other than DnT and Elves.
Maybe I'll play the army-in-a-can that I've been missing for so long. Pia and Kiran Nalaar? Legion Warboss doesn't force our Welders to attack, so bye bye Rabblemaster.
The list I posted is running 18 creatures, which is more than I've ever run in any Painter list before. Crewing copter shouldn't be an issue.
I'll never not run Ballista.
There are plenty of games where it just flat-out kills the opponent.
It's also another extremely flexible card.
Playing against DnT? Kill basically their entire board and negate Mother of Runes.
Playing against Eldrazi and stuck behind bridge? Shoot 'em in the face.
Playing against a non-creature combo deck? Pump it up and jam.
Don't have a blast for their Jace? Just ping it.
Playing against Dredge? Cast it for zero to nuke their Bridge from Belows (repeatable with Welder).
Trying out a lot of things for the first time. Excited about most of it. I'm a little worried about not playing Engineered Explosives and about switching Karn to Chandra. Thoughts?
I'll concede to greater experience. I think I'll be playing this on Saturday:
Trying out a lot of things for the first time. Excited about most of it. I'm a little worried about not playing Engineered Explosives and about switching Karn to Chandra. Thoughts?
I could see no EE working out fine. It's probably used most by me as welder fodder anyways.
Karn vs. Chandra has been something I've been wondering about for some time.
I remember when Chandra was printed. The sun was shining, we still had Top and we were much more focused on locking up the game with Moon and Bridge before comboing out. Chandra fit perfectly into that gameplan, since you could just win behind bridge with her.
Since we are no longer playing 3-4 bridge across the 75, I'm much more weary about chandra. Karn at least makes a blocker if need be. It's a tough call, but in general, I think Chandra is the better card and should warrant being tested again.
I think Bridge is very significant again (I'd be playing more across my 75 if it wasn't for Hanna's Custody). Hence my reticence about Karn and desire to test Chandra.
If I can find a Manic Vandal by Saturday, I'm gonna swap it in for Cratermaker. I'm having nightmares about must-kill equipment after a resolved Painter and my Cratermaker just looking sad. I wish Cratermaker didn't have that problem because otherwise that card is straight gasoline.
Is 2 Canonist in the 75 too little? I don't know what to cut from my SB for it.
I think Bridge is very significant again (I'd be playing more across my 75 if it wasn't for Hanna's Custody). Hence my reticence about Karn and desire to test Chandra.
If I can find a Manic Vandal by Saturday, I'm gonna swap it in for Cratermaker. I'm having nightmares about must-kill equipment after a resolved Painter and my Cratermaker just looking sad. I wish Cratermaker didn't have that problem because otherwise that card is straight gasoline.
Is 2 Canonist in the 75 too little? I don't know what to cut from my SB for it.
If you really want a 3rd Canonist (I would, combo hate is good), I would cut either the Lava Dart, or the 7th blast.
Well, the Lava Dart is being tested out. I'm expecting plenty of Delvers to shoot with it.
Thinking about cutting the 7th Blast is causing me to ponder: when do we board in or out Blasts and why?
Do we just side it in against all Blue decks? And side Blasts out vs non-blue decks? That doesn't seem right.
You board in all your blasts against anything that is primarily blue.
The 2 biggest examples of this are Miracles and Sneak & Show.
It's gets more iffy against decks like Grixis Control or Grixis Delver, because they rely heavily on their black spells. I'd probably want all of the blasts against them anyways.
But yes, you mostly trim blasts against the non-blue decks. Against decks like Maverick or D&T, I probably leave in a couple, just to deal with problem permanents, but against decks like BR Reanimator, I board them all out. They won't naturally hit anything and you don't have time to use them anyways.
I expect mostly Delver, so I don't think I can cut Dart or Blast. I guess 1x Chandra has got to go. Unfortunate, but I think Light Up the Stage and Hanna's Custody will change the control match-up a lot, so I'm less dependent on an advantage engine like a planeswalker.
I've also been experimenting with daretti, scrap savant. it's a 4 mana PW that allows me to pitch artefacts to cheat into play, draw cards, and pseudo-welder, but without targeting (bypassing hanna's custody). Seems quite ok at least, and my opponents seem to think that it's quite innocuous and not doing very much. Maybe it's the idea that the -10 will never be relevant. but draw 2-pitch 2 is pretty good i think, and so is the welder ability.
My build is VERY ghetto - be prepared for the shock:
yes, it's kinda janky and it's a low-budget build, but there we have it. some of my favourite parts of the deck is that daretti and the copter give me card sifting, and pitching into the grave means that i can welder/daretti things back up. Having 3 'blasts' MB means that i'll probably get one during the game, and i'd blast something really crucial, making my opponent play slower/around REBs, as long as i show one or more red up. another weird interaction i've done is having sword of the meek+thopter foundry combo (which can be petal-ed in or welded/(daretti-ed in), allowing me to put up blockers, activate copters, build up a small army to whittle their life total down. against one kinda savvy turbo depths player, i managed to put my life total to 21 in response to their 20/20 with protection from blue. then went on to win. apparently, turbo depths don't have more than 1 Sejiri Steppe in their deck.
then post-board, depending on what i show game one, i go for some other strategy. PW 'control', or full 'blast' and so on. It's pretty fun, and it's been really nice having more card selection and tutors compared to imperial painter.
My manabase is problematic though. I can't afford city of traitors, and i feel like it's really making a difference.
Crystal Vein allows you to get that you'll need for your high-cost, high-impact plays. Obviously not as good as City of Traitors, but it is WAY cheaper.
Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo is great in Legacy, but I'm not sure its right for this deck. It makes for a great deck on its own, it slots into various Tezzeret shells, and it can probably go into Blue based painter quite well. But a deck that is very red and a little bit white is going to have a hard time supporting it: relying on welder effects or petals to get a high power card into play is just begging for disruption.
Daretti looks great. I'd be open to playing him maindeck sometime. But for the SB I'm looking for my planeswalkers to provide an alternative gameplan, not just more of the same.
Speaking of sideboard, I think you want that Relic of Progenitus to be a second Tormod's Crypt: you're even more graveyard dependent than the normal lists!
i was hedging against needles, revokers and other disruption that might hit tormods crypt if they saw/suspect one. having varied answers means they're less likely to get hosed for whatever reason. But you're absolutely right; I should probably use more tormods crypt. Or is there any benefit to using nihil spellbomb? Isn't the whole idea of diversifying cards if they have a similar function probably a good idea?
I'll definitely give crystal veins a go - i'd completely forgotten that they exist! My main concern though is that i might need to put the number of total lands to make it usable.
I'm also strongly considering chrome mox. it looks bad, i know, but my thought is that firstly, it's cheaper than mox opal, and secondly, especially post-board, i can name blue, turn on all the blasts, AND have chrome box tap for blue+whatever colour else...
...yes, it's probably just too cute to be any good, but one can dream! One day, i'll get the money to finally splurge out for mox opals and city of traitors. But 'till then, I'm gonna be trying this!
You have 39 cards maindeck, including Chrome Moxs, that cannot be put on a Chrome Mox. Chrome Mox just seems very bad here.
The default graveyard hate is actually Surgical Extraction. I like Tormod's Crypt because it is re-usable with Welder. I suppose Nihil Spellbomb would work, but I don't think it's particularly necessary.
I mean, you're basically never making black mana to get the full value out of nihil. I like tormod's crypt as well. Been considering trimming the 4th surgical for a 2nd crypt.
I've heard talk of using Surgical Extraction against control to cripple the removal suite that they depend upon. If this is viable, I'd stick with 4 Surgical.
Despite both Miracles and Grixis Control playing Snapcasters + heavy removal suite + other GY cards, neither deck would be considered Graveyard Decks, like Reanimator or Dredge or Storm combo. Besides Miracles and Grixis Control, what other NON Graveyard Decks would you bring in Surgical against?
High tide pops to mind. getting a turnabout or time spiral or high tide or cunning wish seems good. Czech pile, 4c control, maybe even against stone blade? ooh and pox and doomsday (though i've not seen a pox player in ages).
I'm not sure if i can think of anything else that relies heavily on pieces that aren't GY decks.
Yea, i suppose chrome mox isn't very good. It's usually not stuck in my hand, but losing a blood moon or welder doesn't feel very good. being able to tap for R or U feels great when it works though (since painter adds u)! But yea, more cute than game-breaking. But i'm really stuck on acceleration. simian spirit guide feels really bad too, since it doesn't really synergise with anything else.
I'm going to take out the light up the stages i think. Has anyone given them a real good whirl? they're good, but smuggler's copter draws me a card and fills the 'yard for welder too. Not done yet, but i can see drawing a pyroblast, then ditching a grindstone post-combat, then welder the grindstone in for the win, with blast protection. The stage requires mana, AND it doesn't let me pitch to the GY at the end.
Light Up the Stage may be the latest tech, but it is not necessarily optimal. And you're correct that it has some major nonbos. One you missed: it doesn't play very nice with Ethersworn Canonist.
The ultimate answer is to use what's right for you. I'm on 3 Copter, 2 LUtS split and I like it.
SSG can be fetched with Recruiter if you need beatsticks and it crews Copter. Don't knock SSG unless you're reliant on LUtS.
After testing shortcake out a bit, i've noticed that it's too mid-rangey to actually be that effective. something about it just makes it feel like it's too slow for a prison deck, and a tad too janky to power through the combo in a hating meta. This is my build thus far. I'm prepping for a small tournament next week, and i wanna try to sleeve up painter. I'm still undecided between mono U, imperial and shortcake. though i'm leaning to between imperial and mono U.
After some brief testing, it has sort of 2 modes: a balls-to-the-wall combo machine (against all forms of decks that don't run counters), and a mana-prison/grind mode using moon effects and if needed, recruiting the one-of ethersworn canonist. the grind/mode has some ways of getting value, mostly around ticking up daretti. The debate about light up the stage has made me cut some number of them, but most of the time when i see it, it's not a bad card to have. casting it for 2R never really feels that bad either, actually, so that's also been nice.
the crater maker has been good, but has somewhat limited use after the painter lands, and the tinkerer has also been good, but is a bit slow. I think there's space for both, and it would be good to pick and choose one post-board.
My sideboard's the messy bit. there are a lot of pet-cards that i've used to great effect, but the problem is that most of them are already artefacts, which makes opposing hate that much more relevant. I was considering trying a transformational sideboard, but i've no idea what i could do that isn't artifact nor creature based. especially against cantrip-heavy decks, i like trinisphere and defense grid, but maybe that's more relevant in vintage than legacy. The chandras and karns are good for those really grindy games, and can close stalemates out after some time.
Does anyone have an opinion about where my SB is going? i feel like i should drop the containment priest and just go up to 3 or 4 pithing needle instead, since they also shut off vials and more. doesn't help against reanimator though, so that's problematic.
After testing shortcake out a bit, i've noticed that it's too mid-rangey to actually be that effective. something about it just makes it feel like it's too slow for a prison deck, and a tad too janky to power through the combo in a hating meta. This is my build thus far. I'm prepping for a small tournament next week, and i wanna try to sleeve up painter. I'm still undecided between mono U, imperial and shortcake. though i'm leaning to between imperial and mono U.
After some brief testing, it has sort of 2 modes: a balls-to-the-wall combo machine (against all forms of decks that don't run counters), and a mana-prison/grind mode using moon effects and if needed, recruiting the one-of ethersworn canonist. the grind/mode has some ways of getting value, mostly around ticking up daretti. The debate about light up the stage has made me cut some number of them, but most of the time when i see it, it's not a bad card to have. casting it for 2R never really feels that bad either, actually, so that's also been nice.
the crater maker has been good, but has somewhat limited use after the painter lands, and the tinkerer has also been good, but is a bit slow. I think there's space for both, and it would be good to pick and choose one post-board.
My sideboard's the messy bit. there are a lot of pet-cards that i've used to great effect, but the problem is that most of them are already artefacts, which makes opposing hate that much more relevant. I was considering trying a transformational sideboard, but i've no idea what i could do that isn't artifact nor creature based. especially against cantrip-heavy decks, i like trinisphere and defense grid, but maybe that's more relevant in vintage than legacy. The chandras and karns are good for those really grindy games, and can close stalemates out after some time.
Does anyone have an opinion about where my SB is going? i feel like i should drop the containment priest and just go up to 3 or 4 pithing needle instead, since they also shut off vials and more. doesn't help against reanimator though, so that's problematic.
How the different versions of Painter end up playing out is always build-dependent, even within a given Painter archetype. For example, you could easily make a very combo-focused Shortcake via 4 Enlightened Tutor and some number of Mother of Runes to protect Painter.
I prefer a hybrid version of Shortcake, which is designed to pivot based on matchup, opening hand, and opponent plays.
If you want to play 4x Blood Moon, you're probably better off with Imperial Painter.
If you want a lot of prison elements, just play Mono Red Prison. You'll find it often called Dragon Stompy, despite the fact that it hasn't played Dragons in nearly 10 years.
Pithing Needle stops Gristlebrand from Sneak and Show and from Reanimator, but doesn't stop Emrakul from Sneak and Show nor the other Reanimation targets.
I want to push damage with Copter, but I always end up with 2+ in hand with no way to properly abuse them all. I'm trimming from 4 to 3 for a slot to try new stuff.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Goblin Cratermaker
3x Goblin Welder
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Magus of the Moon
4x Painter's Servant
1x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Walking Ballista
Instant (7)
2x Enlightened Tutor
4x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
Sorcery (2)
2x Light Up the Stage
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Arid Mesa
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
3x Mountain
3x Plateau
1x Wooded Foothills
Artifact (13)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Grindstone
4x Lotus Petal
3x Smuggler's Copter
Enchantment (1)
1x Blood Moon
1x Blood Moon
1x Containment Priest
1x Duergar Hedge-Mage
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Goblin Cratermaker
1x Karn, Scion of Urza
1x Pyroclasm
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Sulfur Elemental
4x Surgical Extraction
1x Tormod's Crypt
5 MD Blasts and 1 in the SB? Just got sick of being flooded with them when the list called for 6 and 2?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I feel that canonist has been losing stock lately. I also don't always want blasts, since they're only great when you have a painter in play.
This list is really just trying some new things out and seeing how Light Up the Stage performs. It's felt good so far, though.
But I'm not sure how I feel about having only 16 possible pilots for Copter.
I'm considering wedging Walking Ballista back into my 75, but I'm not sure that a 4mana+ artifact (that I can't Weld into play) will do much against anything other than DnT and Elves.
Maybe I'll play the army-in-a-can that I've been missing for so long. Pia and Kiran Nalaar? Legion Warboss doesn't force our Welders to attack, so bye bye Rabblemaster.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
The list I posted is running 18 creatures, which is more than I've ever run in any Painter list before. Crewing copter shouldn't be an issue.
I'll never not run Ballista.
There are plenty of games where it just flat-out kills the opponent.
It's also another extremely flexible card.
Playing against DnT? Kill basically their entire board and negate Mother of Runes.
Playing against Eldrazi and stuck behind bridge? Shoot 'em in the face.
Playing against a non-creature combo deck? Pump it up and jam.
Don't have a blast for their Jace? Just ping it.
Playing against Dredge? Cast it for zero to nuke their Bridge from Belows (repeatable with Welder).
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Walking Ballista
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Grindstone
4 Lotus Petal
3 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon
1 Hanna's Custody
4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Light Up the Stage
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
3 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Lava Dart
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hanna's Custody
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Containment Priest
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Trying out a lot of things for the first time. Excited about most of it. I'm a little worried about not playing Engineered Explosives and about switching Karn to Chandra. Thoughts?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I could see no EE working out fine. It's probably used most by me as welder fodder anyways.
Karn vs. Chandra has been something I've been wondering about for some time.
I remember when Chandra was printed. The sun was shining, we still had Top and we were much more focused on locking up the game with Moon and Bridge before comboing out. Chandra fit perfectly into that gameplan, since you could just win behind bridge with her.
Since we are no longer playing 3-4 bridge across the 75, I'm much more weary about chandra. Karn at least makes a blocker if need be. It's a tough call, but in general, I think Chandra is the better card and should warrant being tested again.
I think Bridge is very significant again (I'd be playing more across my 75 if it wasn't for Hanna's Custody). Hence my reticence about Karn and desire to test Chandra.
If I can find a Manic Vandal by Saturday, I'm gonna swap it in for Cratermaker. I'm having nightmares about must-kill equipment after a resolved Painter and my Cratermaker just looking sad. I wish Cratermaker didn't have that problem because otherwise that card is straight gasoline.
Is 2 Canonist in the 75 too little? I don't know what to cut from my SB for it.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
If you really want a 3rd Canonist (I would, combo hate is good), I would cut either the Lava Dart, or the 7th blast.
Thinking about cutting the 7th Blast is causing me to ponder: when do we board in or out Blasts and why?
Do we just side it in against all Blue decks? And side Blasts out vs non-blue decks? That doesn't seem right.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
You board in all your blasts against anything that is primarily blue.
The 2 biggest examples of this are Miracles and Sneak & Show.
It's gets more iffy against decks like Grixis Control or Grixis Delver, because they rely heavily on their black spells. I'd probably want all of the blasts against them anyways.
But yes, you mostly trim blasts against the non-blue decks. Against decks like Maverick or D&T, I probably leave in a couple, just to deal with problem permanents, but against decks like BR Reanimator, I board them all out. They won't naturally hit anything and you don't have time to use them anyways.
I expect mostly Delver, so I don't think I can cut Dart or Blast. I guess 1x Chandra has got to go. Unfortunate, but I think Light Up the Stage and Hanna's Custody will change the control match-up a lot, so I'm less dependent on an advantage engine like a planeswalker.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
My build is VERY ghetto - be prepared for the shock:
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Walking Ballista
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Grindstone
4 Lotus Petal
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 thopter foundry
1 sword of the meek
1 Blood Moon
1 Hanna's Custody
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Light Up the Stage
2 Daretti, scrap savant
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
1 Ancient Den
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
2 pyroblast
3 red elemental blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 relic of progenitus
1 tormod's crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Containment Priest
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 karn, scion of urza
yes, it's kinda janky and it's a low-budget build, but there we have it. some of my favourite parts of the deck is that daretti and the copter give me card sifting, and pitching into the grave means that i can welder/daretti things back up. Having 3 'blasts' MB means that i'll probably get one during the game, and i'd blast something really crucial, making my opponent play slower/around REBs, as long as i show one or more red up. another weird interaction i've done is having sword of the meek+thopter foundry combo (which can be petal-ed in or welded/(daretti-ed in), allowing me to put up blockers, activate copters, build up a small army to whittle their life total down. against one kinda savvy turbo depths player, i managed to put my life total to 21 in response to their 20/20 with protection from blue. then went on to win. apparently, turbo depths don't have more than 1 Sejiri Steppe in their deck.
then post-board, depending on what i show game one, i go for some other strategy. PW 'control', or full 'blast' and so on. It's pretty fun, and it's been really nice having more card selection and tutors compared to imperial painter.
My manabase is problematic though. I can't afford city of traitors, and i feel like it's really making a difference.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo is great in Legacy, but I'm not sure its right for this deck. It makes for a great deck on its own, it slots into various Tezzeret shells, and it can probably go into Blue based painter quite well. But a deck that is very red and a little bit white is going to have a hard time supporting it: relying on welder effects or petals to get a high power card into play is just begging for disruption.
Daretti looks great. I'd be open to playing him maindeck sometime. But for the SB I'm looking for my planeswalkers to provide an alternative gameplan, not just more of the same.
Speaking of sideboard, I think you want that Relic of Progenitus to be a second Tormod's Crypt: you're even more graveyard dependent than the normal lists!
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I'll definitely give crystal veins a go - i'd completely forgotten that they exist! My main concern though is that i might need to put the number of total lands to make it usable.
I'm also strongly considering chrome mox. it looks bad, i know, but my thought is that firstly, it's cheaper than mox opal, and secondly, especially post-board, i can name blue, turn on all the blasts, AND have chrome box tap for blue+whatever colour else...
...yes, it's probably just too cute to be any good, but one can dream! One day, i'll get the money to finally splurge out for mox opals and city of traitors. But 'till then, I'm gonna be trying this!
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
The default graveyard hate is actually Surgical Extraction. I like Tormod's Crypt because it is re-usable with Welder. I suppose Nihil Spellbomb would work, but I don't think it's particularly necessary.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I'm not sure if i can think of anything else that relies heavily on pieces that aren't GY decks.
Yea, i suppose chrome mox isn't very good. It's usually not stuck in my hand, but losing a blood moon or welder doesn't feel very good. being able to tap for R or U feels great when it works though (since painter adds u)! But yea, more cute than game-breaking. But i'm really stuck on acceleration. simian spirit guide feels really bad too, since it doesn't really synergise with anything else.
I'm going to take out the light up the stages i think. Has anyone given them a real good whirl? they're good, but smuggler's copter draws me a card and fills the 'yard for welder too. Not done yet, but i can see drawing a pyroblast, then ditching a grindstone post-combat, then welder the grindstone in for the win, with blast protection. The stage requires mana, AND it doesn't let me pitch to the GY at the end.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
The ultimate answer is to use what's right for you. I'm on 3 Copter, 2 LUtS split and I like it.
SSG can be fetched with Recruiter if you need beatsticks and it crews Copter. Don't knock SSG unless you're reliant on LUtS.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Welder
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Walking Ballista
3 simian spirit guide
1 goblin tinkerer
1 goblin cratermaker
1 Magus of the Moon
artefacts 12
4 Grindstone
4 Lotus Petal
3 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
others 6
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Light Up the Stage
1 Daretti, scrap savant
land 20
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
4 crystal veins
3 Mountain
1 plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 pyroblast
3 red elemental blast
4 Surgical Extraction
2 tormod's crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 defense grid
1 trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Containment Priest
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 karn, scion of urza
After testing shortcake out a bit, i've noticed that it's too mid-rangey to actually be that effective. something about it just makes it feel like it's too slow for a prison deck, and a tad too janky to power through the combo in a hating meta. This is my build thus far. I'm prepping for a small tournament next week, and i wanna try to sleeve up painter. I'm still undecided between mono U, imperial and shortcake. though i'm leaning to between imperial and mono U.
After some brief testing, it has sort of 2 modes: a balls-to-the-wall combo machine (against all forms of decks that don't run counters), and a mana-prison/grind mode using moon effects and if needed, recruiting the one-of ethersworn canonist. the grind/mode has some ways of getting value, mostly around ticking up daretti. The debate about light up the stage has made me cut some number of them, but most of the time when i see it, it's not a bad card to have. casting it for 2R never really feels that bad either, actually, so that's also been nice.
the crater maker has been good, but has somewhat limited use after the painter lands, and the tinkerer has also been good, but is a bit slow. I think there's space for both, and it would be good to pick and choose one post-board.
My sideboard's the messy bit. there are a lot of pet-cards that i've used to great effect, but the problem is that most of them are already artefacts, which makes opposing hate that much more relevant. I was considering trying a transformational sideboard, but i've no idea what i could do that isn't artifact nor creature based. especially against cantrip-heavy decks, i like trinisphere and defense grid, but maybe that's more relevant in vintage than legacy. The chandras and karns are good for those really grindy games, and can close stalemates out after some time.
Does anyone have an opinion about where my SB is going? i feel like i should drop the containment priest and just go up to 3 or 4 pithing needle instead, since they also shut off vials and more. doesn't help against reanimator though, so that's problematic.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
How the different versions of Painter end up playing out is always build-dependent, even within a given Painter archetype. For example, you could easily make a very combo-focused Shortcake via 4 Enlightened Tutor and some number of Mother of Runes to protect Painter.
I prefer a hybrid version of Shortcake, which is designed to pivot based on matchup, opening hand, and opponent plays.
If you want to play 4x Blood Moon, you're probably better off with Imperial Painter.
If you want a lot of prison elements, just play Mono Red Prison. You'll find it often called Dragon Stompy, despite the fact that it hasn't played Dragons in nearly 10 years.
Pithing Needle stops Gristlebrand from Sneak and Show and from Reanimator, but doesn't stop Emrakul from Sneak and Show nor the other Reanimation targets.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival