MTG Salvation

I don't like Blightsteel Colussus in this deck.

If your able to start tutoring, you've more than likely won, and there is no way he's pulling you back from a bad position.

I agree on not likeing blightsteel. It increases the decks blowout combo potential but it overall decreases the decks ability to handle disruption. TBH I don't see a situation where you would want him over titan or battlesphere unless you were already winning by a fair margain.

I really like Michael's article on this deck. He carries you through a fairly diverse meta and does a fair job explaining card choices.

An intresting card proposed by shinny shinny is Spine of Ish Shah which is a fair replacement for a duplicant or something. It gives the deck an out to solitary confinement and another decent out to moat. In addition it can create loops with welder making it okay at grinding out matches. (Sure I'd prefer wurmcoil for grinding out a match but recurrable vindicate is cool.) It also kills jtms, and elspeth which is never something to discount.

Quote from Umezete

I agree on not likeing blightsteel. It increases the decks blowout combo potential but it overall decreases the decks ability to handle disruption. TBH I don't see a situation where you would want him over titan or battlesphere unless you were already winning by a fair margain.

I really like Michael's article on this deck. He carries you through a fairly diverse meta and does a fair job explaining card choices.

An intresting card proposed by shinny shinny is Spine of Ish Shah which is a fair replacement for a duplicant or something. It gives the deck an out to solitary confinement and another decent out to moat. In addition it can create loops with welder making it okay at grinding out matches. (Sure I'd prefer wurmcoil for grinding out a match but recurrable vindicate is cool.) It also kills jtms, and elspeth which is never something to discount.

I see that the first list is running two spines, i would like to know how that went as I think this is too many since you dont really ever want to draw the card.

Another card that has been suggested in the past and I keep running over in my head is mindslaver. I really dont see a single situation where this would ever be a bad card to resolve. It definitely fits somewhere in there.

I do wonder what the barbarian ring is there for? maybe against peacekeeper?

the emporium is also definitely not a bad idea main deck since this may just save your butt long enough to win.

Would all is dust really be that good in the SB? I suppose the only occasion where it is quite good is against dredge?

In my build i also upped the greaves to 3 as I felt it was one of those cards you can always use more of.

if artifact hate starts to really creep up, do you guys feel that playing the darksteel forge in the 75 becomes an option?

I have been experimenting with this deck a bit and the amount of keep-able hands seems a little discouraging. I have been toying around with the typical list and changed -4 wasteland and + 4 Crystal Vein. It helped quite a bit. Any thoughts on this change? I am also investigating lotus petals as a replacement Mox Diamond. Only about one in five hands do I have enough land to pitch for mana. If its only purpose those games is to feed metal craft for opal I rater have the petal. In my testing petal played well Goblin Welder to turn useless artifacts into into mini lotus. This is just my 2 cents and I am sure I may be missing something.

I would assume Serum Powder fits into this deck. It helps with the mulligan issues + bait for welder.

Quote from Warden

I would assume Serum Powder fits into this deck. It helps with the mulligan issues + bait for welder.

I think your right on this. I have mulliganed into oblivion a few times as I end up getting all accelerator or all threats.

ive been running 2 Thousand-Year Elixir in place of one wurmcoil and one mox diamond they seem to be working pretty good so far.

My biggest concern is that stifle seems to be making a reappearance in a big way. Chalice of the void may start becoming more important.

You're also seeing some artifact hate (rebuild as used by Ari Lax in ANT). The top two decks at the SCG 5k had a total of 7 stifles, 3 pithing needle, 2 damping matrix. The meta is somewhat important too - stifle just causes all sorts of issues for certain decks (beats doomsday combo, etc)
Pridemage is annoying, but you are able to land chalice for 1 plus a phyrexian revoker for pridemage, you're fine until they find krosan grip (if they run it).

The deck has some potential, but you're going to have to work to tune it up a bit more or perhaps wait until the sudden rise in popularity abates after taking people by surprise (@ Metalworker...is that card ....legal? - you'll get this after you read the rundown link)

# 2 Welder Stax - Michele Terzi


Welder Mud - Flavio Pecorone, 7th place

Alright, I have been contemplating on whether using the red version (with Welder), blue version (with Chalice of the Void on main and blue for draw) or stay with a colorless version (running Crystal Veins as lands in place of the Artifact lands).


I myself have been running a U/R version for quite some time. It uses Thirst for Knowledge as fuel and it also helps Goblin Welder bring back artifacts from the grave. Unfortunately, I still face the problem inconsistency.

ivanpei from The Source has been toying with a Green version. He splashed green for Sylvan Library. It helps the consistency of the deck. He is also running Spellskite and Chalice of the Void on his main in place of Welders and Voltaic Keys. He/She insisted that the deck needs resilency and consistency and the cards above help achieve that.

This was his previous post on the discussion:

Quote from ivanpei »

Ive had alot of personal success with mud, people try to do too many things in mud like lock pieces, wastelands etc etc. They just don't work. What you need is resiliency. Mud is pretty much a combo deck. You shouldn't be trying to add control elements and the sorts like wastes and trinis. Just go for the kill and max out consistency. I play this list:

(nameless one)'s DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 chalice of the void 3 spellskite 4 grim monolith 4 metalworker 3 lightning greaves 3 sylvan library (MVP) 4 lodestone golem 4 kudoltha forgemaster 4 wurmcoil engine 1 sundering Titan 1 myr battlesphere	3 mox diamond 2 mox opal 4 forest 4 darksteel citadel 4 tree of tales 4 ancient tomb 4 city of traitors	Sb 4 trinisphere 3 choke 4 phyrexian revoker 4 seal of primordium

This deck is very straight forward, nothing fancy but plenty of redundancy. It can run chalice @ 1 optimally because it skips keys. Keys IMO are very win more and conditional. Playing more lands helps alot with consistency. That's what mud really needs, consistency and resiliency.

Post board seal of primordium are preemptive solutions to null rod. It's the best out. And even if you top deck it, you can cast it with forests.

I myself want to have a more lock approach. This way, instead of relying on the deck's inconsistent draws, you can prevent your opponents in doing anything and just wait until you get a threat online or a means to fetch your threat.

I went for a more stax like approach and the sb is thrown together from a random list at the moment lol.
But any comments on it? It seems to be very explosive and doing pretty well.

some thoughts after testing this repeatedly over the last few days..

- i don't think a more stax like approach is the way to go with this. if you want to lock your opponent out, frankly, use stax. the lock pieces (chalice/trinisphere) are cards in the SB that are there to improve specific match-ups, not be a half hearted attempt at locking your opponent out.

- because this deck can occasionally have clunky draws (e.g. all acceleration no threats), i believe that having blue is important so that you can draw into your threats faster (thoughtcast/thirst for knowledge). this deck doesn't really lack threats so it wouldn't take too much effort to get to them.

- splashing red for goblin welder makes for some great plays (e.g. repeating wurmcoil engine) and it really is an absolute house when it gets going. it doesn't do much for consistency however so it may not be worth it. the deck's threats are threatening enough on their own anyway.

- null rod really hurts this deck. i'm wondering if there's anything that can be done about it other than a chalice for 2?

The stax approach isn't there to lock the opponent down, its there to slow them down. Trinisphere is devastating on turn 1 and a chalice at one almost guarantees that your metalworkers and fatteis will live to do their job. I have been playing a stax like list at my local store (which is not full of noobs, it includes, among others, Ari Lax) and I have top 8'd the past 3 weeks, one was a top 4. The deck does work.

I agree with blue being needed, Thoughtcast is the way to go.

You absolutely cannot run Welder or Top or Voltaic key if you are running 4 mainboard chalice like I am. They are nice cards, but believe me, but Chalice at 1 is better.

I like the idea of spellskite and am going to try and get my hands on a playset.

As for null rod. I know of somebody that boarded in Mycosynth Lattice. It was really funny seeing the opponent not be able to anything. though I dont think this is the real answer to the problem, it is kinda funny though.

Quote from MoT_Pestilence

The stax approach isn't there to lock the opponent down, its there to slow them down. Trinisphere is devastating on turn 1 and a chalice at one almost guarantees that your metalworkers and fatteis will live to do their job. I have been playing a stax like list at my local store (which is not full of noobs, it includes, among others, Ari Lax) and I have top 8'd the past 3 weeks, one was a top 4. The deck does work.

I agree with blue being needed, Thoughtcast is the way to go.

You absolutely cannot run Welder or Top or Voltaic key if you are running 4 mainboard chalice like I am. They are nice cards, but believe me, but Chalice at 1 is better.

I like the idea of spellskite and am going to try and get my hands on a playset.

As for null rod. I know of somebody that boarded in Mycosynth Lattice. It was really funny seeing the opponent not be able to anything. though I dont think this is the real answer to the problem, it is kinda funny though.

Hey MoT_Pestilence, would you like to share the current list you're running.

As for my list, heres what I have (I am still working on the sideboard). I have had awkward hands with this build before but I have to say that I'm more comfortable with this build than what I've had before.

This is my current decklist (it's from memory so it may not be 100% but its close)



I currently have no Scarcrone or Spellskite but I'm trying to build a similar list in modern that uses them, and I like them a lot in that list. So I may try to find room for them. My sideboard is based on my meta so I won't post it. But some interesting cards that may be universal are Ratchet Bomb, Contagion Engine, Platinum Angel, Spine of Ish Sa, and Tormod's Crypt. It just depends on what you expect to see.

I was also thinking about adding either a second Academy ruins and a Mindslaver to add that small combo in, as well as maybe some Buried ruins. I would need to find some room and tweak it a little, but its a thought.

I've been playing around with a pretty different version of this deck:



I dismantled while re arranging my collection and decks, but I'm pretty sure this is how it was. I've enjoyed Arcbound Ravager, he help out with dead Mox Opals and is good with Welder. I have been playing around with Enchantress, NO RUG, and BUG, lately, but I've been dying to make this deck more consistent. Maybe I'll put this together on Cockatrice tonight and see how things go. Definitely give this a shot before you knock it.

@MoT_Pestilence:
I personally love Spellskite. It protects your pieces and it can be a fine blocker against pure aggro decks. As for Scarecrone, it used to be Thirst for Knowledge, but with no Welder to abuse TfK and recur my fallen robots, I think Scarecrone does an okay job in doing so.

How's Trinisphere on the main for you? When I tested it, I found it too inconsitent. Maybe I just want it really early on the field but I was never happy with it. The same can be said with other Sphere effects.

As for your sideboard, what is your meta like? Personally my sideboard is half-assed right now. I wouldn't mind if you a list of your sideboard. I do love the Mycosynth Lattice and the Mindslaver techs.




@ Nefarsus:
Is there a reason why there's only three Metalworker and Grim Monolith? I think with that amount of artifacts you're running, Metalworker would be good.

As for Welder and Ravager, I don't mind Welder in some builds. I myself am a big fan of Welder though the deck did take a big hit post Mental Misstep. While I can see Ravager as an early drop, wouldn't you just win games if you accelerate to Forgemasters?

My sideboard is set for an aggro meta full of Re-animator (actually more like combo), Zoo, Merfolk, Blue zoo, Enchantress, and other random decks. Ratchet Bomb hits enchantress targets from behind their wall, as well as hoses merfolk. Contagion Engine is obviously for use against swarm like elves, goblins, and merfolk. Phyrexian metamorph is for re-animator and hive mind match ups (Sundial is for hive mind as well). Crypt is obviously for re-animator and dredge. Spine of Ish Sa is for people with ensnaring bridge or other important targets I cant hit, like Solitary Confinement. Platinum angel is for any blue or control matchup that runs no removal. If you forge master for an angel when you know their deck has no board removal, you win. Before Dismember was printed, this was what I did against Merfolk.



I'm a stax player as well as a Metalworker player, so when it comes to Trinisphere, I kinda have a soft spot. I really like it, there is no better play in magic outside of winning outright than a turn one Trinisphere.

I agree about Trinisphere and how backbreaking it is if you can resolve it really early. Its just a matter of time until WotC prints a mistake and this deck to be more consistent.

Ok, so Mental Missstep is banned, Is there any reason to go back to a Welder version of this deck, or is Blue with chalice to protect just the better way to go?
With no chalice of the void, you get your Voltaic Key, Top, and Welder, and maybe put in spellskites for protection, with Chalice you get protection, and thoughtcast for consistency. What do you guys think?

I've been testing with Welder builds, along with Tangle Wire. It's still in the rough works but I've been happy with it. One of the cards I wanted to test is Clone Shell. I think it has potential in the Welder builds. It can also help SDT or if the deck can support, it can make Scroll Rack better.


Also, has anyone tried Birthing Pod?

1)I don't know. I just don't like Clone Shell. I feel like we want to hit the opponent with fatties the turn after they come down, and win by turns 3-5. With Clone Shell you have to get 5 mana to cast him, wait for him to die (if he ever does, except with maybe your own forgemaster, which you should be winning anyway if you get 1 activation), and then hope that one of the top 4 cards is something that will win you the game. I feel like there are much better things that can be put into the MD.
2) I have not tried Birthing Pod, but I feel like it would be too slow. Everything we get out in the early game (Metal Workers, and maybe Welder) are still good in the late game and probably can win games on their own. Sacrificing them to birthing pod just does not seem like a good idea.
3) I played around with the welder version again and I just don't like the feel. The blue version for Chalice main and draw power (whether it's Thirst for Knowledge or Thoughtcast) is the way to go.

I have abandoned both Clone Shell and Birthing Pod in my testing. As for my current version, it's the Welder/Forgemaster list.

While the mainboard Chalice was great, I preferred the combo-ish playstyle of the Welder builds.

Don't get me wrong, the Chalice builds are also good but I never got the board lockdown going. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I've been doing the right thing with the Welder-builds.