@Alias1983 - I have no idea what you are trying to say.
LOL i was thinking the same thing. But i do know this...
Counterbalance is a problem for us because unlike chalice it can counter 1,2, and 3 cost cards and its not an artifact making rebuild useless. Counterbalance is basically a chalice that constantly fights our spells. GG boys...
@mykatdied
Is it possible for you to tell me what your thinking is now, even before testing. There is a local legacy event i am going to tomorrow that i want to take high tide to.
Main board 1 wipe away as a way to possibly win game 1 outside of counter lock and I'll likely splash white for mentor. They are going to board out every piece of removal so it let's us beat them at their own game. We can more easily trigger prowess than they can.
My idea
I could change 1 meditate for a wish buy my idea for the board is solid scroll targets instead of wish targets because scroll is cheaper and can sideboard hate faster but sb cards need to cantrip and I'm working on that.
I would love mind's desire to be legal but I thought eye of the storm could be interesting but sadly unplayable.
Main board 1 wipe away as a way to possibly win game 1 outside of counter lock and I'll likely splash white for mentor. They are going to board out every piece of removal so it let's us beat them at their own game. We can more easily trigger prowess than they can.
@mykatdied
Yea... still not a fan of splashing colors. That's like splashing green for k grip or something. I think instead of spell pierce we might have to go the spell snare route. I still think relying on creatures could be a decent idea if they were blue. Before splashing another color i would consider some of the bigger drops for blue, possible consideration for this idea is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. would play well as a defense grid sort. I also think that thing in the ice is a thing.
I am going to test spell snare and see what happens. Ill let you guys know.
Teferi seems like a very good option, especially since you can flash him in at end of turn so they can't pyroblast it, etc. Issue though would be that counter-top is still very good against us and they can activate abilities still.
I honestly think Mentor is likely fine. It can also come in for other match ups like Death and Taxes or other combo decks where we could put on some pressure while we dig for our combo.
So I played with the white splash for mentor tonight. Mentor was everything I could have ever wanted, when I could have wanted it. I did get paired against Miracles twice and lost both times. Mentor allowed me to easily steal a game where I resolved it. The other Miracles player had double force on mentor to match my single force protection. That was unfortunate. Overall Mentor was amazing out of the board. Every deck boarded out every piece of removal and when I saw him, he flooded the board quick. He also likely gives you a kill if you have him on board and are going to fizzle during the combo.
I also got paired in the mirror... wtf? He had perfect combo turn 3 and turn 4 against me without me finding much interaction, also if I sequenced my spells better I would have taken at least game 2 in the mirror. I basically tapped out for extra mentor triggers and on his turn he began casting high tides. He was running Mind Over Matter since he doesn't own Candel. That card was actually really good.
Goblins beat me both times it found Thalia, but Mentor stole game 2 and if it wasn't for cavern of souls on board game 3 I might have been able to get there.
I wrecked against my opponent, Bye. That player is so bad. I won the die roll, I crushed in 2. It was like this player never bothered to show up. Why does Bye even play magic anymore? I am not even sure this person was playing a deck.
Weird meta with 3 Miracles decks in the room. This room has hated out Miracles very hard so I was very surprised. Got paired Round 1 and 4 against it.
I also will have to say that tonight was my first real experience with mana screw. I had many games where I was stuck on just 1 or 2 land for a while. I will be likely going to 17 the next time I pick up High Tide.
Predict was great, but I really miss Pore over the Pages. I will likely go back to it.
So I played with the white splash for mentor tonight. Mentor was everything I could have ever wanted, when I could have wanted it. I did get paired against Miracles twice and lost both times. Mentor allowed me to easily steal a game where I resolved it. The other Miracles player had double force on mentor to match my single force protection. That was unfortunate. Overall Mentor was amazing out of the board. Every deck boarded out every piece of removal and when I saw him, he flooded the board quick. He also likely gives you a kill if you have him on board and are going to fizzle during the combo.
I also got paired in the mirror... wtf? He had perfect combo turn 3 and turn 4 against me without me finding much interaction, also if I sequenced my spells better I would have taken at least game 2 in the mirror. I basically tapped out for extra mentor triggers and on his turn he began casting high tides. He was running Mind Over Matter since he doesn't own Candel. That card was actually really good.
Goblins beat me both times it found Thalia, but Mentor stole game 2 and if it wasn't for cavern of souls on board game 3 I might have been able to get there.
I wrecked against my opponent, Bye. That player is so bad. I won the die roll, I crushed in 2. It was like this player never bothered to show up. Why does Bye even play magic anymore? I am not even sure this person was playing a deck.
Weird meta with 3 Miracles decks in the room. This room has hated out Miracles very hard so I was very surprised. Got paired Round 1 and 4 against it.
I also will have to say that tonight was my first real experience with mana screw. I had many games where I was stuck on just 1 or 2 land for a while. I will be likely going to 17 the next time I pick up High Tide.
Predict was great, but I really miss Pore over the Pages. I will likely go back to it.
@mykatdied
Mentor in my opinion is a losing battle against miracles because they really don't care. Also mentor doesn't stop a counterbalance. which is a problem. To beat miracles you have to beat counterbalance and i just don't think its possible. If mentor ever comes down of course its most likly to win you a game, but i question whether or not its worth the investment. There could be a blue option in the guy that's 4 mana and makes 2/2 birds for each spell you cast. Also you probably played the mirror wrong. Playing mentor in the mirror is suicide. You should focus on the combo and counter spells. Keeping a correct hand is really crucial here because flusterstorm is a house. If your playing the mirror you should consider mulling differently to more counterspells and try to dig for you pieces instead of trying to dig for counterspells. I play predict because i really try to get my opponent to flip his top and it helps me refill after discard spells and it can be used as a draw spell to merchant scroll for that doesn't time walk yourself (meditate) with top or any cantrip. I know i have said this before but Pore is only ever good if you are in the middle of going off, and normally you are winning those games. Other tactics in the mirror include trying to turnabout your opponent at the end of his turn to tap him out and try to go off only contested by force of will. I would say more but i think you get the idea.
Also, about the mind over matter. That card is garbage. I would easily run 4 turnabouts before even considering something like that.
If you are looking for more tech you can try Teferi's Realm. Helps in the miracles match and death and taxes. Also punishes opponents who misplay with it. I would recommend reading up on phasing if you need a refresher. I have not been posting here because i put down the high tide till miracles starts becoming less of the format. But i look around from time to time and see if anything is worth trying.
There is the blue guy that makes 2/2 flyers. Talrand sky summoner. But honestly mentor was great against miracles.
I definitely played the mirror wrong. I don't really think mentor was where I went wrong. It was honestly just tapping out for no reason.
Mind over matter worked for him, but he is likely used to running it. He also had a main board blue sun's zenith, which seemed to work for him. I will agree it seems like garbage over candel as that was why he ran it. But it worked regardless. He was also on several meditate mainboard. Seemed like a very old budget build.
I likely won't be picking up high tide again for a while mostly for the same reason as you. Miracles is way to high in numbers right now.
Hi, I just wanted to share this report from a small Legacy event I went that happened 2 years ago, I thought it would be the correct place to leave it.
1 Izzet: [won 2 - lost 0]
First game casted Turnabout at EOT to tap him out he countered, but had no other counters after that so I brainfreezed him holding a USZ just in case. Second game he boarded his entire sideboard and I just noticed when I casted Brain Freeze for around 60 cards and he told me, with a smile, "I have 75 cards in my deck" and then I thought, that was pretty bad, but I thought "OK, I will just use Time Reversal so then he can draw all those extra cards he pulled in the deck with USZ this time" (my mistake, not paying attention), new seven, high tides, lands and counters, I had to pass the turn at 13 life against a total of 4 power from creatures and a new hand probably full of burn spells, I thought it would be OK because I've got Counterbalance on battlefield and the full set of Cloud of Faeries in case I need block, I even thought about attacking, but it would take 5 turns and I was tapped out at this time. He attacked for 4, I'm at 9, and he casted Breaking Point, I was expecting a Bolt, so destroy all creatures, my turn, cantrip, turnabout in hand, pass, my opponent cast a Hypersonic Dragon, I'm at 5, just needed some draw spell like Time Reversal or USZ or ... draw a Merchant Scroll, great, go off, Merchant Scroll into USZ and cast Brain Freeze for over 75 and was about to cast USZ on him, but he conceded.
2 WR: [won 2 - lost 0]
the guy was brandnew to Magic and was there to learn more and test his deck, quite nice guy.
3 Goblins: [won 2 - lost 1]
bad hands. all three games I started with only one land on my hand, didn't wanted to mulligan. I won the first one with four lands on play as far as I remember; second game got stuck with only one island and after several cantrips and no other lands found, I lost; and third game I managed to find one other Island of the top after some cantrips and had to go off with only two. my hand was like 2 Cloud of Faeries, 1 High Tide, 1 Time Reversal, 1 Dispel, 1 Echoing Truth (I think) and a second Snap from my drawstep. I played High Tide, cloud of faeries and Snap it, I considered and was expecting some sort of answer for Snap like a Lightning Bolt on the Clouds, but my opponent responded recycling a Gempalm Incinerator, "good riddance", at this time I thought I would lost this match up by another answer or fizzling, Gempalm resolved, Cloud to the grave and Snap countered. 2 mana on pool, cast the second Cloud, second Snap and Time Reversal only three mana available, new seven with another Cloud and Snap with High Tides and cantrips, only in the middle of the combo I found another Island and finally play the third Island, Brain Freeze him for 69 if I remember.
4 UR DragonStorm:
first game I attempted to tap him out at EOT with Turnabout he countered it, then I started going off, he cast Desperate Ritual splicing another Desperate Ritual, I was not sure what he wanted with that, but he would get a lot of mana soon, so I Dispel it and brainfreezed him. game two I went off when he was tapped put, but, when I was finishing I casted a Cloud of Faeries, untapped two islands and took the top card of my library (!!!) literally a mistake, I remember I was counting the mana on my pool and thought "I will check my hand" and, for some odd reason, I took the top card of my library instead. My opponent didn't realised it, he was like "it's OK for me, I'm tapped out", I couldn't continue this way, so I called the Judge and he explained me that due to the circumstances, since there was no legal action which has provided me the opportunity allowing me draw that card, I lost the Round right there. Well at least I did the right thing, the Judget was really happy to be at that tournament, he never expected to be announcing a Legacy/Modern Event and was expecting even less to see a High Tide combo around there. we were going to the third round which could at least give me the opportunity to see a DragonStorm combo running, never seen before. Third round started. I tried to tap him out, he Remanded my Turnabout, so I waited another turn to tap him out and get another island, he countered (again) my Turnabout, I started the combo, casted a Time Reversal and when I tapped all my Islands for mana and casted Turnabout, with only 3 mana on my mana pool, my opponent cast a Remand on my Turnabout, I casted a Dispel on his Remand, he responded with Mana Leak, I remembered I had only one counter in my hand and it just got countered, I was almost saying "ok" and thinking how would I manage to combo again, when I spread the last four cards of my hand I saw, Island, Island, Island and Dispel. Dispel?! "Dispel in response", then I Turnabout and untapped my Islands, I remembered the judge started laughing and walking around, I think it was because of the counterwar, it was funny. So, counterwar won, Islands untapped, continued the combo and with 80+ mana available, I was foiled believing I had USZ on my hand, I was sure I had it there, then I remember I had cast it before on me, that's why I had so many Islands in hand and forgot about the counter in the end, so with no cantrip, tutor or cycling, I had to just finish with Brain Freeze instead ¬¬.
With this, I got 1st place, 7 boosters + 1 booster that was given to every one, and a promo Ratchet Bomb. from the booster I got 2 fetchlands (flooded strand and bloodstained mire) was very nice.
I didn't used the sideboard in any game, I wasn't confident if it would be effective in this environment.
The night before and during the morning before I went to the tournment, I had a strange feeling about having a single Opportunity main deck, so I switched it for the third Preordain to set more lands before the combo turn. I think I was right
Most part of the people there I think were not familiar with the Legacy, but it was really a lot of fun to bring my High Tide brew.
I did see that, however I am always skeptical about MTGO vs Paper. It may be a fine build, but I am still not convinced about grinding out 15+ hours of High Tide in paper.
So a High Tide deck 5-0'd a league today. As some reddit posters noted, it didn't have any fetches for Branstorm/Ponder and was apparently off in some other ways. Is anybody else still playing High Tide? Is it viable again since CounterTop is dead? Anybody have a current list? It's a really interesting deck.
Let me just first say that this list is terrible. Here are my reasons...
1: You play brainstorm without fetching. So you are all in on merchant scroll to shuffle or intuition.
2: If you play candle you should have capsize in the board to generate infinite mana with. That's the whole reason to get candles.
3: Not sure how i feel about swan song. Counters that pressure us kinda scare me... How about running spell snare?
4: Playing 3 tormod's is not needed. Why does high tide need to extend the game by wiping the grave and not killing with combo? I can't wish for an artifact.
5: I am on the fence about git probe. I actually think the better card here is peek because it doesn't cost you life and its an instant. Costing life can be bad where in a lot of situations i find myself at a low life total when going off.
6: Not running 4 Time Spiral is actually wrong. If you play reset and are on that strategy that's one thing. But not having 4 of your best card other than high tide blows my mind.
I would have went on but 6 felt like enough to get my point across.
@MTGS_User8233
I don't think commit can work as if you are at a lot of mana blue sun is just better. Why draw 7 and give my opponent outs when i can draw 15 and redraw the blue sun later. Removing hate is about choosing right board slots. I think our boards should have about 10-11 wish targets that are different. Playing 2 rebuild makes no sense as i would rather play a rebuild and maybe a hurkyl's recall or how about echoing truth?
I will say. I have my old high tide list the page before this but its outdated since top rotated. If you are interested i can provide an updated one.
Let me just first say that this list is terrible. Here are my reasons...
1: You play brainstorm without fetching. So you are all in on merchant scroll to shuffle or intuition.
2: If you play candle you should have capsize in the board to generate infinite mana with. That's the whole reason to get candles.
3: Not sure how i feel about swan song. Counters that pressure us kinda scare me... How about running spell snare?
4: Playing 3 tormod's is not needed. Why does high tide need to extend the game by wiping the grave and not killing with combo? I can't wish for an artifact.
5: I am on the fence about git probe. I actually think the better card here is peek because it doesn't cost you life and its an instant. Costing life can be bad where in a lot of situations i find myself at a low life total when going off.
6: Not running 4 Time Spiral is actually wrong. If you play reset and are on that strategy that's one thing. But not having 4 of your best card other than high tide blows my mind.
I would have went on but 6 felt like enough to get my point across.
@MTGS_User8233
I don't think commit can work as if you are at a lot of mana blue sun is just better. Why draw 7 and give my opponent outs when i can draw 15 and redraw the blue sun later. Removing hate is about choosing right board slots. I think our boards should have about 10-11 wish targets that are different. Playing 2 rebuild makes no sense as i would rather play a rebuild and maybe a hurkyl's recall or how about echoing truth?
I will say. I have my old high tide list the page before this but its outdated since top rotated. If you are interested i can provide an updated one.
have just started playing this deck, would love to see any current lists that people might have?
I have one main question at this early stage of testing, and that is how come not many old lists have tried 4 Cunning Wish and 1 High Tide on the sideboard. Would have thought this would make sense as it would give you 8 cards that can then fetch a High Tide (including the merchant scrolls).
Not sure anyone will see this since it looks like this forum hasn't been updated in a while but I just finished building this deck after being in love with it since I started playing in Ravnica
I have a couple questions naturally, was wondering if someone could help?
When is the correct time to Blue Sun Zenith yourself in your combo turn? And is there a general guideline to how much you invest into drawing cards with your mana?
What should you side out in the following game to protect from Surgical Extraction? I know that they usually say a high tide, but is it helpful to side out a Time Spiral as well, so they can't discard + Surgical?
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Kinda high tide-curious at this point. I have some of the cards. I just built 3 legacy decks over this past year (UW miracles/helm, Eldrazi Post & BR Reanimator) So I don't really have a ton of funds to build this atm, but I do have all the cantrips, counters FOW etc. It seems like meditate and time spiral are the only really expensive cards I would need to get to play this. Is this deck okay? Worth playing? It seems fun
I'm no expert either, but i'd say give it a test run before you splurge into them. If you're going to try to develop the deck, it's definitely worth having a look into what others have done previously. Some ideas i've had:
- candelabra of tawnos + capsize on the wishboard is good
- you need to know what you're digging for mid-combo (setting up multiple high tides but without spluttering mid combo)
- im not sure siding out your combo pieces is sound advice. you're going to be quite reliant on drawing/cantripping into them as is, why make it harder to win? if your opponent plays tonnes of discard and other disruption, it's better to be on the upside and disrupt them proactively (i'd suggest siding disrupt, spell pierce, spell snare, swan song, flusterstorm). that way, they would be playing around counters that you might not even have in hand, giving you the time you need to set up. remember that setup for this deck is crucial to success. you may have 'inevitability' on your side, but still, you gotta set it up. I dunno.. maybe it's worth siding 1 high tide and a time spiral out for all that extra disruption to give you more setup time. but against many of the tempo decks, you gotta be hitting their board presence and stopping them from disrupting you too.
- i think in answering the 'when should you blue sun yourself', it should be somewhat obvious when you have the opportunity; basically, don't leave yourself out of mana, draw enough so you have enough fuel to draw into something that will kill your opponent and untap your lands. In my build, i use flash of insight. Sometimes, the correct play is to play it for 1U, then flash it from the grave, stacking your deck exactly as you see fit, then blue suns zenith yourself for exactly all the pieces you need, then you're guaranteed the win from there. Heck you could, at that point, have the kill on the stack, then in response, kill them again!
one thing that might be worth mentioning (I'm not sure if it's that synergistic or not), but snap-snapcaster mage combination has worked really well for me in my reset-high tide build (in response to that surgical extraction, snapcaster, flashback high tide, snap, untap, tap for 4, whatevers, and combo off from there. remand on brain freeze means i don't need to have more than 6 storm to kill someone out (and allows me to 'go over' an eldrazi reshuffle trigger while its still on the stack, and keep on milling).
I'm very excited to see decks like this become popular again though. I'm learning the ropes of solidarity, but seeing someone play a time spiral and candles is something special.
My thinking is that:
pre-combo - it's a dead card.
starting off the combo - it's a dead card
early combo - probably a dead card (early combo as in before the first time spiral is shot off
middle combo - playable
late combo - playable, possibly better than time spiral (emphasis on possibly)
I don't think it's good enough to warrant a spot; but it can be used as spiral number 5 if you really want one more.
when remanding, i gotta remand say the original countered high tide on the stack and replay it, costing 1 extra mana, but drawing 1 less card off it.
But unlike remand, i can make my own copy of ad nauseum. i can 'counter' a abrupt decay (while blowing something else up). I can even use it as a pseudo-time spiral if i wanted to.
i'd wager that narset's reversal can be a 3 or even 4 of, depending how good it ends up being. Unlike the finale, it has its role pre combo and mid-combo.
I don’t know that I like the reversal in high tide or Solidarity. I feel like using it as extra time spirals is just inefficient and to use it as a hide tide early in the combo isn’t an efficient use of mana. Maybe a one or two of, but how far do you dilute a combo. Trust me I have been tinkering with high tide for awhile now and growth spiral is a neat two of, but opens you up to wasteland isn’t nearly as much fun as I would like to admit.
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LOL i was thinking the same thing. But i do know this...
Counterbalance is a problem for us because unlike chalice it can counter 1,2, and 3 cost cards and its not an artifact making rebuild useless. Counterbalance is basically a chalice that constantly fights our spells. GG boys...
@mykatdied
If you can beat counterbalance please tell me your ways!
@mykatdied
Is it possible for you to tell me what your thinking is now, even before testing. There is a local legacy event i am going to tomorrow that i want to take high tide to.
I could change 1 meditate for a wish buy my idea for the board is solid scroll targets instead of wish targets because scroll is cheaper and can sideboard hate faster but sb cards need to cantrip and I'm working on that.
I would love mind's desire to be legal but I thought eye of the storm could be interesting but sadly unplayable.
2x Cunning Wish
1x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
4x High Tide
2x snapcaster nage
2x Meditate
1x Spell Pierce
3x Turnabout
4x Merchant Scroll
3x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Time Spiral
12x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Blue sun's zenith
@mykatdied
Yea... still not a fan of splashing colors. That's like splashing green for k grip or something. I think instead of spell pierce we might have to go the spell snare route. I still think relying on creatures could be a decent idea if they were blue. Before splashing another color i would consider some of the bigger drops for blue, possible consideration for this idea is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. would play well as a defense grid sort. I also think that thing in the ice is a thing.
I am going to test spell snare and see what happens. Ill let you guys know.
I honestly think Mentor is likely fine. It can also come in for other match ups like Death and Taxes or other combo decks where we could put on some pressure while we dig for our combo.
I also got paired in the mirror... wtf? He had perfect combo turn 3 and turn 4 against me without me finding much interaction, also if I sequenced my spells better I would have taken at least game 2 in the mirror. I basically tapped out for extra mentor triggers and on his turn he began casting high tides. He was running Mind Over Matter since he doesn't own Candel. That card was actually really good.
Goblins beat me both times it found Thalia, but Mentor stole game 2 and if it wasn't for cavern of souls on board game 3 I might have been able to get there.
I wrecked against my opponent, Bye. That player is so bad. I won the die roll, I crushed in 2. It was like this player never bothered to show up. Why does Bye even play magic anymore? I am not even sure this person was playing a deck.
Weird meta with 3 Miracles decks in the room. This room has hated out Miracles very hard so I was very surprised. Got paired Round 1 and 4 against it.
I also will have to say that tonight was my first real experience with mana screw. I had many games where I was stuck on just 1 or 2 land for a while. I will be likely going to 17 the next time I pick up High Tide.
Predict was great, but I really miss Pore over the Pages. I will likely go back to it.
@mykatdied
Mentor in my opinion is a losing battle against miracles because they really don't care. Also mentor doesn't stop a counterbalance. which is a problem. To beat miracles you have to beat counterbalance and i just don't think its possible. If mentor ever comes down of course its most likly to win you a game, but i question whether or not its worth the investment. There could be a blue option in the guy that's 4 mana and makes 2/2 birds for each spell you cast. Also you probably played the mirror wrong. Playing mentor in the mirror is suicide. You should focus on the combo and counter spells. Keeping a correct hand is really crucial here because flusterstorm is a house. If your playing the mirror you should consider mulling differently to more counterspells and try to dig for you pieces instead of trying to dig for counterspells. I play predict because i really try to get my opponent to flip his top and it helps me refill after discard spells and it can be used as a draw spell to merchant scroll for that doesn't time walk yourself (meditate) with top or any cantrip. I know i have said this before but Pore is only ever good if you are in the middle of going off, and normally you are winning those games. Other tactics in the mirror include trying to turnabout your opponent at the end of his turn to tap him out and try to go off only contested by force of will. I would say more but i think you get the idea.
Also, about the mind over matter. That card is garbage. I would easily run 4 turnabouts before even considering something like that.
If you are looking for more tech you can try Teferi's Realm. Helps in the miracles match and death and taxes. Also punishes opponents who misplay with it. I would recommend reading up on phasing if you need a refresher. I have not been posting here because i put down the high tide till miracles starts becoming less of the format. But i look around from time to time and see if anything is worth trying.
I definitely played the mirror wrong. I don't really think mentor was where I went wrong. It was honestly just tapping out for no reason.
Mind over matter worked for him, but he is likely used to running it. He also had a main board blue sun's zenith, which seemed to work for him. I will agree it seems like garbage over candel as that was why he ran it. But it worked regardless. He was also on several meditate mainboard. Seemed like a very old budget build.
I likely won't be picking up high tide again for a while mostly for the same reason as you. Miracles is way to high in numbers right now.
List:
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Merchant Scroll
4 High Tide
4 Time Reversal
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Snap
4 Dispel
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
2 Counterbalance
1 Rebuild
2 Mystic Remora
1 Envelop
1 Teferi's Response
1 Opportunity
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Kiora's Dismissal
2 Reality Spasm
1 Squelch
1 Hindering Touch
1 Temporal Fissure
1 Rewind
1 Three Wishes (Maybe)
an awkward side I know...
1 Izzet: [won 2 - lost 0]
First game casted Turnabout at EOT to tap him out he countered, but had no other counters after that so I brainfreezed him holding a USZ just in case. Second game he boarded his entire sideboard and I just noticed when I casted Brain Freeze for around 60 cards and he told me, with a smile, "I have 75 cards in my deck" and then I thought, that was pretty bad, but I thought "OK, I will just use Time Reversal so then he can draw all those extra cards he pulled in the deck with USZ this time" (my mistake, not paying attention), new seven, high tides, lands and counters, I had to pass the turn at 13 life against a total of 4 power from creatures and a new hand probably full of burn spells, I thought it would be OK because I've got Counterbalance on battlefield and the full set of Cloud of Faeries in case I need block, I even thought about attacking, but it would take 5 turns and I was tapped out at this time. He attacked for 4, I'm at 9, and he casted Breaking Point, I was expecting a Bolt, so destroy all creatures, my turn, cantrip, turnabout in hand, pass, my opponent cast a Hypersonic Dragon, I'm at 5, just needed some draw spell like Time Reversal or USZ or ... draw a Merchant Scroll, great, go off, Merchant Scroll into USZ and cast Brain Freeze for over 75 and was about to cast USZ on him, but he conceded.
2 WR: [won 2 - lost 0]
the guy was brandnew to Magic and was there to learn more and test his deck, quite nice guy.
3 Goblins: [won 2 - lost 1]
bad hands. all three games I started with only one land on my hand, didn't wanted to mulligan. I won the first one with four lands on play as far as I remember; second game got stuck with only one island and after several cantrips and no other lands found, I lost; and third game I managed to find one other Island of the top after some cantrips and had to go off with only two. my hand was like 2 Cloud of Faeries, 1 High Tide, 1 Time Reversal, 1 Dispel, 1 Echoing Truth (I think) and a second Snap from my drawstep. I played High Tide, cloud of faeries and Snap it, I considered and was expecting some sort of answer for Snap like a Lightning Bolt on the Clouds, but my opponent responded recycling a Gempalm Incinerator, "good riddance", at this time I thought I would lost this match up by another answer or fizzling, Gempalm resolved, Cloud to the grave and Snap countered. 2 mana on pool, cast the second Cloud, second Snap and Time Reversal only three mana available, new seven with another Cloud and Snap with High Tides and cantrips, only in the middle of the combo I found another Island and finally play the third Island, Brain Freeze him for 69 if I remember.
4 UR DragonStorm:
first game I attempted to tap him out at EOT with Turnabout he countered it, then I started going off, he cast Desperate Ritual splicing another Desperate Ritual, I was not sure what he wanted with that, but he would get a lot of mana soon, so I Dispel it and brainfreezed him. game two I went off when he was tapped put, but, when I was finishing I casted a Cloud of Faeries, untapped two islands and took the top card of my library (!!!) literally a mistake, I remember I was counting the mana on my pool and thought "I will check my hand" and, for some odd reason, I took the top card of my library instead. My opponent didn't realised it, he was like "it's OK for me, I'm tapped out", I couldn't continue this way, so I called the Judge and he explained me that due to the circumstances, since there was no legal action which has provided me the opportunity allowing me draw that card, I lost the Round right there. Well at least I did the right thing, the Judget was really happy to be at that tournament, he never expected to be announcing a Legacy/Modern Event and was expecting even less to see a High Tide combo around there. we were going to the third round which could at least give me the opportunity to see a DragonStorm combo running, never seen before. Third round started. I tried to tap him out, he Remanded my Turnabout, so I waited another turn to tap him out and get another island, he countered (again) my Turnabout, I started the combo, casted a Time Reversal and when I tapped all my Islands for mana and casted Turnabout, with only 3 mana on my mana pool, my opponent cast a Remand on my Turnabout, I casted a Dispel on his Remand, he responded with Mana Leak, I remembered I had only one counter in my hand and it just got countered, I was almost saying "ok" and thinking how would I manage to combo again, when I spread the last four cards of my hand I saw, Island, Island, Island and Dispel. Dispel?! "Dispel in response", then I Turnabout and untapped my Islands, I remembered the judge started laughing and walking around, I think it was because of the counterwar, it was funny. So, counterwar won, Islands untapped, continued the combo and with 80+ mana available, I was foiled believing I had USZ on my hand, I was sure I had it there, then I remember I had cast it before on me, that's why I had so many Islands in hand and forgot about the counter in the end, so with no cantrip, tutor or cycling, I had to just finish with Brain Freeze instead ¬¬.
With this, I got 1st place, 7 boosters + 1 booster that was given to every one, and a promo Ratchet Bomb. from the booster I got 2 fetchlands (flooded strand and bloodstained mire) was very nice.
I didn't used the sideboard in any game, I wasn't confident if it would be effective in this environment.
The night before and during the morning before I went to the tournment, I had a strange feeling about having a single Opportunity main deck, so I switched it for the third Preordain to set more lands before the combo turn. I think I was right
Most part of the people there I think were not familiar with the Legacy, but it was really a lot of fun to bring my High Tide brew.
edit: link
So you guys are talking about... http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15885&d=297562&f=LE
Let me just first say that this list is terrible. Here are my reasons...
1: You play brainstorm without fetching. So you are all in on merchant scroll to shuffle or intuition.
2: If you play candle you should have capsize in the board to generate infinite mana with. That's the whole reason to get candles.
3: Not sure how i feel about swan song. Counters that pressure us kinda scare me... How about running spell snare?
4: Playing 3 tormod's is not needed. Why does high tide need to extend the game by wiping the grave and not killing with combo? I can't wish for an artifact.
5: I am on the fence about git probe. I actually think the better card here is peek because it doesn't cost you life and its an instant. Costing life can be bad where in a lot of situations i find myself at a low life total when going off.
6: Not running 4 Time Spiral is actually wrong. If you play reset and are on that strategy that's one thing. But not having 4 of your best card other than high tide blows my mind.
I would have went on but 6 felt like enough to get my point across.
@MTGS_User8233
I don't think commit can work as if you are at a lot of mana blue sun is just better. Why draw 7 and give my opponent outs when i can draw 15 and redraw the blue sun later. Removing hate is about choosing right board slots. I think our boards should have about 10-11 wish targets that are different. Playing 2 rebuild makes no sense as i would rather play a rebuild and maybe a hurkyl's recall or how about echoing truth?
I will say. I have my old high tide list the page before this but its outdated since top rotated. If you are interested i can provide an updated one.
Thanks for the reply. I'd love to see your list.
I have one main question at this early stage of testing, and that is how come not many old lists have tried 4 Cunning Wish and 1 High Tide on the sideboard. Would have thought this would make sense as it would give you 8 cards that can then fetch a High Tide (including the merchant scrolls).
I have a couple questions naturally, was wondering if someone could help?
- candelabra of tawnos + capsize on the wishboard is good
- you need to know what you're digging for mid-combo (setting up multiple high tides but without spluttering mid combo)
- im not sure siding out your combo pieces is sound advice. you're going to be quite reliant on drawing/cantripping into them as is, why make it harder to win? if your opponent plays tonnes of discard and other disruption, it's better to be on the upside and disrupt them proactively (i'd suggest siding disrupt, spell pierce, spell snare, swan song, flusterstorm). that way, they would be playing around counters that you might not even have in hand, giving you the time you need to set up. remember that setup for this deck is crucial to success. you may have 'inevitability' on your side, but still, you gotta set it up. I dunno.. maybe it's worth siding 1 high tide and a time spiral out for all that extra disruption to give you more setup time. but against many of the tempo decks, you gotta be hitting their board presence and stopping them from disrupting you too.
- i think in answering the 'when should you blue sun yourself', it should be somewhat obvious when you have the opportunity; basically, don't leave yourself out of mana, draw enough so you have enough fuel to draw into something that will kill your opponent and untap your lands. In my build, i use flash of insight. Sometimes, the correct play is to play it for 1U, then flash it from the grave, stacking your deck exactly as you see fit, then blue suns zenith yourself for exactly all the pieces you need, then you're guaranteed the win from there. Heck you could, at that point, have the kill on the stack, then in response, kill them again!
one thing that might be worth mentioning (I'm not sure if it's that synergistic or not), but snap-snapcaster mage combination has worked really well for me in my reset-high tide build (in response to that surgical extraction, snapcaster, flashback high tide, snap, untap, tap for 4, whatevers, and combo off from there.
remand on brain freeze means i don't need to have more than 6 storm to kill someone out (and allows me to 'go over' an eldrazi reshuffle trigger while its still on the stack, and keep on milling).
I'm very excited to see decks like this become popular again though. I'm learning the ropes of solidarity, but seeing someone play a time spiral and candles is something special.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
My thinking is that:
pre-combo - it's a dead card.
starting off the combo - it's a dead card
early combo - probably a dead card (early combo as in before the first time spiral is shot off
middle combo - playable
late combo - playable, possibly better than time spiral (emphasis on possibly)
I don't think it's good enough to warrant a spot; but it can be used as spiral number 5 if you really want one more.
On the other hand, narset's reversal seems very playable. moreso than mission briefing, i'd say. and probably better than remand and unsubstantiate (for those who use 'em):
when remanding, i gotta remand say the original countered high tide on the stack and replay it, costing 1 extra mana, but drawing 1 less card off it.
But unlike remand, i can make my own copy of ad nauseum. i can 'counter' a abrupt decay (while blowing something else up). I can even use it as a pseudo-time spiral if i wanted to.
i'd wager that narset's reversal can be a 3 or even 4 of, depending how good it ends up being. Unlike the finale, it has its role pre combo and mid-combo.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom