If you really hate playing turn 1 decks I suggest 3 things.
1. Continue to play blue which gives you force of will and learn what spells to counter.
2. Accept the fact that it happens and you lose to it at times.
3. Stop playing legacy.
Turn 1 combos are a strategy and popular enough where you will see them in LGS events as well as larger opens, gps etc.
I usually play control decks and usually without blue. I understand the frustration of not enjoying losing before you even play a land. But it does happen. I would never drop and ask for my money back because I played against a turn 1 combo deck. Either you need to find a store where people are better players and turn 1 combo isn't prevalent, or just accept the fact that turn 1 combo decks are a part of the format.
@Alias1983 - Either way this conversation isn't particularly for this forum. But can you post your list at some point and give some reflections on how it felt as is. Sounds like you have a very odd meta so your list likely wouldn't be ideal for others to run.
@bigbadbern - Once I am done with SCG Worcester I will likely be on and off High Tide and I will be testing the Predict over Pore. I am very curious about it and it seems like a good option. Excited to get back on the Tide for some good surf after SCG Worcester. Can you post your most recent list? I am going to likely drop CB in the board and test Mentor and Thing in the Ice when I get back. I will try to trade for them in the meantime.
This deck is very clunky. To the point that it doesn't surprise me at all that you Fizzed against 8 rack.
Notes:
-You play too many land. Go to 17.
-Too many counterspells. 7 main should be the max.
-Too many counters in the board. Should be around 3 max.
-Intuition is not a good spell for the deck. Prob better off playing actual sensei's top.
-Play a bounce spell main, the only 2 for consideration is snap or wipe away.
-Highly recommend NOT playing Hurkyl's Recall, ravenous trap, or the 3rd meditate in the board.
The game against 8rack was messes up from the start and mostly my fault not the deck.
I do have to many lands but everyone runs 18 for consistency and that was apparent against my "elves" opponent when ibhad to mull for a Land off the scry and inlet him play first so I could get that land but I still beat him. He was fast g1 but g2 was the land issue and g3 turnabout and force saved me.
8 counters main soni can be sure to have a counter in the first couple turns, I make sure to exile counters to force if I can but I will exile whatever I dont need if it's not the combo turn.
I still have e yet to exile a high tide but I will if I have to.
The board counters are in case and filler, if anything I would swap them for tips(2 pierce and 1 fluster).
I use recall, trap and the extra meditate I case of redundancy, I have wished for meditate several times.
I used Intuition to find a la d for the combo turn and scrolls so I can find that 1of that would of been discarded from the intuition.
I feel my deck is ideal right now and if I do drop a land it's a fetch, if I drop a counter spell its Flusterstorm and I would replace them with retraced image.
I like how the deck works but I can try the 2 MB spell changes, I like the SB as is.
@Alias1983 - Either way this conversation isn't particularly for this forum. But can you post your list at some point and give some reflections on how it felt as is. Sounds like you have a very odd meta so your list likely wouldn't be ideal for others to run.
@bigbadbern - Once I am done with SCG Worcester I will likely be on and off High Tide and I will be testing the Predict over Pore. I am very curious about it and it seems like a good option. Excited to get back on the Tide for some good surf after SCG Worcester. Can you post your most recent list? I am going to likely drop CB in the board and test Mentor and Thing in the Ice when I get back. I will try to trade for them in the meantime.
@mykatdied
When i was at GP pitt this weekend i saw and talked a little bit of high tide with feline. Some of the stuff mentioned was interesting some stuff not so much, so ill leave the most interesting stuff here.
I mentioned to feline that i was really trying to push the deck into a bigger spotlight, I even had my high tide deck on me for feline to look at. After feline looked through my deck the general consensus was it looked pretty tight, and was interested to see predict after i mentioned why i ran it. Feline was surprised that i didn't run counterbalance after looking into my board, seeing my 4 top main. We just agreed that counterbalance isn't what the deck wants to be doing and we 100% agreed on thing in the ice. Feline questioned my mystic remora out of the board but said defense grid wasn't good either. Other things mentioned were that feline doesn't really "play" magic as much now because of doing video recording and other magic community things but the insight was cool. I think this is for us as a group to consider because we don't have someone in the trenches as much anymore and that person can't help us with meta advice.
Here is my deck. And this is from memory so i apologize and will change if its incorrect.
Before i travel to scg worcester I want to know what deck i am on. High tide is probably an 80% of happening. The other 20% is miracles. But i did play legacy this weekend at gp pitt and did pretty well only losing to miracles in and 4 round tournament. The miracles player boarded 3 red blast and 2 flusterstorms. i can't really explain why miracles has so much blue hate out of the board when the normal meta now is eldrazi and death and taxes, but clearly miracles doesn't seem to care about those match ups. Also this guy is the 2nd person i have seen with this type of board in recent playing. Honestly i think the best meta call is a non blue deck that combo's, like lands or elves. We need high tide to beat miracles, i think its ambitious to think that we can dodge the match up. Does anyone here have an idea on how to do this?
Dodge the match up? Don't get a draw and don't win?
As far as beating miracles it would be good to have surgical to take down force of will for the combo turn. Naturally we need wipe away for counterbalance. If there was some way to prevent them from drawing cards that would be an option as well.
The game against 8rack was messes up from the start and mostly my fault not the deck.
I do have to many lands but everyone runs 18 for consistency and that was apparent against my "elves" opponent when ibhad to mull for a Land off the scry and inlet him play first so I could get that land but I still beat him. He was fast g1 but g2 was the land issue and g3 turnabout and force saved me.
8 counters main soni can be sure to have a counter in the first couple turns, I make sure to exile counters to force if I can but I will exile whatever I dont need if it's not the combo turn.
I still have e yet to exile a high tide but I will if I have to.
The board counters are in case and filler, if anything I would swap them for tips(2 pierce and 1 fluster).
I use recall, trap and the extra meditate I case of redundancy, I have wished for meditate several times.
I used Intuition to find a la d for the combo turn and scrolls so I can find that 1of that would of been discarded from the intuition.
I feel my deck is ideal right now and if I do drop a land it's a fetch, if I drop a counter spell its Flusterstorm and I would replace them with retraced image.
I like how the deck works but I can try the 2 MB spell changes, I like the SB as is.
@Alias1983
I wasn't clear about meditate. I wouldn't run the 3rd copy of meditate. 2 is the most i would play in the 75. that's all i am saying. Board or main don't matter.
I know you feel your deck is "ideal" but even you mentioned you needed more testing against teir 1 decks. I think next legacy tournament you play in you should try retraced image. I say try because adding that card to your deck will cause you to fizzle out more. I am not going to sit here and tell you to not put your hand on top of a fire because it will burn you, ill let you put your hand on top a fire for yourself, this way you learn the lesson yourself. This will also let you better understand high tide when you try out these different cards. Not because of the new cards your trying, but because of the old cards you took out.
If no one in your area has a teir 1 deck, you guys should proxy a couple decks that are stock from mtgtop8.com or something. This way you can get the high tide testing you need against those match ups.
Only "t1" deck I could play against is dredge/oops decks and that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.
I've used spell pierce more than Flusterstorm and fow equally as spell pierce.
I'm not sure I want to try retraced image tbh, I'd rather use something like manipulate fate and even then I'm not sure if I would like it.
So far I like where I'm at, need more candles but if I take anything out I'm replacing with turnabout.
If I run a maindeck bounce spell its snap so I'm going to drop a fetch for a snap.
Life matters against fast aggro and I'd rather keep as much as I can.
Yeah I know run fetches with brainstorm but very rarely do I get the chance to shuffle away cards and most the time I still want them cards.
Thing to n the ice seems to be where we want to be foe g2/3 but for g3 I'd go back to combontonkake reside irrelevant.
2/2 split ponder preordain, I'd do 1/3 split ponder preordain tbh, i'd never drop to 3 fow, always 4.
I question wipe away main
@Alias1983
Here are my reasons:
-i would never split to preordain because of being able to shuffle with ponder and the fact that ponder sees more for cards to predict is more useful. Preordain does not work well with predict period. I would also mention here that brainstorm and ponder are restricted in vintage. Yes i want to play 4.
-I understand that 3 force of will main MIGHT not be correct. But when talking with feline we both agreed that force is a card that should only be used if absolutely necessary. High tide runs force to only deal with threats that attack our game plan. We normally don't want to force ever because of the card disadvantage it provides and we need the most cards to combo effectively. Also force is a fizzle card when using spiral. So i cut a force because its inefficient and card disadvantage. I should also mention that I didn't cut it from the 75 as the 4th one is in the board. This replaced pact of negation.
-You questioning wipe away and not giving a reason, questions why you question it. see what i did there...? Basically just saying why don't you like wipe away main? It helps against miracles, great against death and taxes, and during the combo turn you can bounce candel or top for value. seems like a win win to me.
Dodge the match up? Don't get a draw and don't win?
As far as beating miracles it would be good to have surgical to take down force of will for the combo turn. Naturally we need wipe away for counterbalance. If there was some way to prevent them from drawing cards that would be an option as well.
@mykatdied
Ironically i think we need to surgical red blast. a 1 mana stop any spell in our deck is gross. I actually think that defense grid against miracles is not a terrible choice but in most other match ups i feel it comes up short. Is [card]
Teferi's Realm[/card] playable against miracles?
IMO a 3cmc answer is very hard to get online soon(if you wish, if you board it in you need to use up a scroll to get it and you better have something to stop them stopping the answer).
That's why I run more countermagic.
The game against miracles goes so long you could literally cast teferi or sphinx of the final word and laugh. What are they going to do, STP it post-board?
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The game against miracles goes so long you could literally cast teferi or sphinx of the final word and laugh. What are they going to do, STP it post-board?
@monovfox
I actually think the game going long against miracles is bad becuase of the amount of red blast and snapcaster they have.
Not to mention the mana they would have to use all of it. Once we start dropping high tides it is not inconceivable that they could cast a pyroblast, fluster, snapcaster, other counter spell and have force up as well. We can be a heavy countermagic deck, but that much would be very difficult to fight through
Not to mention the mana they would have to use all of it. Once we start dropping high tides it is not inconceivable that they could cast a pyroblast, fluster, snapcaster, other counter spell and have force up as well. We can be a heavy countermagic deck, but that much would be very difficult to fight through
@mykatdied
I agree 100%. I think i am going to try this teferi's realm tech tonight and see how i do. Realm is a quick answer to counterbalance before they really setup with pyroblast. Also this tech depends on if my LGS has Realm or not. Update soon...
My concern with that is that Realm is blue so if they have pyroblast, it likely is not long for this world. They still have snapcasters to buy back pyroblast to then counter a spell, or they can draw them post time spiral.
Also someone over at the source has had success with a build that has past in flames. It makes him less reliant on Time Spiral and helps to keep random 7 card hands from fizzling. It seems interesting. Not sure I love the idea of non basic lands, but it seems like it could be a good shift for the deck to take and become more competitive again since every spell you cast is at that point 2 spells instead of just 1.
My concern with that is that Realm is blue so if they have pyroblast, it likely is not long for this world. They still have snapcasters to buy back pyroblast to then counter a spell, or they can draw them post time spiral.
Also someone over at the source has had success with a build that has past in flames. It makes him less reliant on Time Spiral and helps to keep random 7 card hands from fizzling. It seems interesting. Not sure I love the idea of non basic lands, but it seems like it could be a good shift for the deck to take and become more competitive again since every spell you cast is at that point 2 spells instead of just 1.
@mykatdied
I also read that guys post from the source but here are my thoughts...
If you want to play with past in flames isn't it just better to play storm? I think if your looking to go off of basics and play that card then why be a worse storm deck? Also spiral and past in flames is a literal bad combo with each other.
You other point of 2 spells instead of just 1 is actually incorrect. Time spiral lets high tide reuse the spells again by drawing them again. Also if you have to spiral a 2nd time past the 1st you might even cast the same card a 3rd time.
Anything that we play is going to get red blasted. That argument is bad. The only options to look into might be artifact options. it might be the best thing to run defense grid but i just feel wrong playing with it. Do we have other options?
In all fairness having an enchantment as something extra that we can draw off a spiral and end up fizzling with is probably just bad anyway. I've already found that to be an issue when running counterbalance. I'm really not sure what the answer to miracles is. It seems best to have a set up where we can turnabout their lands end of turn and then wipe away balance if it's on board. Unfortunately that asks for a lot so I'm not even sure if that would be an actual answer. But late in the game it might be more viable since it works with our combo than trying cute enchantments that don't really add anything to a combo turn. Deck is hard. Haha
In all fairness having an enchantment as something extra that we can draw off a spiral and end up fizzling with is probably just bad anyway. I've already found that to be an issue when running counterbalance. I'm really not sure what the answer to miracles is. It seems best to have a set up where we can turnabout their lands end of turn and then wipe away balance if it's on board. Unfortunately that asks for a lot so I'm not even sure if that would be an actual answer. But late in the game it might be more viable since it works with our combo than trying cute enchantments that don't really add anything to a combo turn. Deck is hard. Haha
@mykatdied
I had a long session with miracles this weekend and yesterday. I can say that i must have played around 25 games and i think i won 1 game. about 8 were preboard and and the others post board. The only game i won was a preboarded game. I think i am going to hold off on high tide a bit till miracles has died off a little bit in the current meta. If we can't beat the most popular deck of the format, then i think blue mages should look elsewhere. I have not given up 100% on high tide though... I still like the deck and such. Ill keep checking back here in case the tech changes to where we can beat miracles or miracles is not a high percentage of the meta.
In all fairness having an enchantment as something extra that we can draw off a spiral and end up fizzling with is probably just bad anyway. I've already found that to be an issue when running counterbalance. I'm really not sure what the answer to miracles is. It seems best to have a set up where we can turnabout their lands end of turn and then wipe away balance if it's on board. Unfortunately that asks for a lot so I'm not even sure if that would be an actual answer. But late in the game it might be more viable since it works with our combo than trying cute enchantments that don't really add anything to a combo turn. Deck is hard. Haha
@mykatdied
I had a long session with miracles this weekend and yesterday. I can say that i must have played around 25 games and i think i won 1 game. about 8 were preboard and and the others post board. The only game i won was a preboarded game. I think i am going to hold off on high tide a bit till miracles has died off a little bit in the current meta. If we can't beat the most popular deck of the format, then i think blue mages should look elsewhere. I have not given up 100% on high tide though... I still like the deck and such. Ill keep checking back here in case the tech changes to where we can beat miracles or miracles is not a high percentage of the meta.
All hail high tide!
Actually according to mtgs for control decks d&t is the most popular even though the current literations of it it's just mono white blade deck.
Many seem to use titi to great success but I can't find anyone with them to trade so I can't do much.
Still trying to make a list for more all in combo, cb is the problem for us.
Wishing for wipe away is not going to work, too mana intense, even echoing truth and we don't want to see them again when we combo unless we have candles or my idea scm.
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1. Continue to play blue which gives you force of will and learn what spells to counter.
2. Accept the fact that it happens and you lose to it at times.
3. Stop playing legacy.
Turn 1 combos are a strategy and popular enough where you will see them in LGS events as well as larger opens, gps etc.
I usually play control decks and usually without blue. I understand the frustration of not enjoying losing before you even play a land. But it does happen. I would never drop and ask for my money back because I played against a turn 1 combo deck. Either you need to find a store where people are better players and turn 1 combo isn't prevalent, or just accept the fact that turn 1 combo decks are a part of the format.
I wish I had the normal meta y'all do because at least I know what to expect.
We have folks with whatever but t1 stuff should not be what people play.
If you brag about what you have then play it, I want to see it.
I can't take them seriously.
Yes they exist but why play that when you can play something I consider fair.
Hell my elves opponent has nothing great but he put up the best games.
The 8rack was a shock but welcomed to play against.
Anything!
@bigbadbern - Once I am done with SCG Worcester I will likely be on and off High Tide and I will be testing the Predict over Pore. I am very curious about it and it seems like a good option. Excited to get back on the Tide for some good surf after SCG Worcester. Can you post your most recent list? I am going to likely drop CB in the board and test Mentor and Thing in the Ice when I get back. I will try to trade for them in the meantime.
4 misty rainforest
2 flooded strand
4 high tide
4 merchant scroll
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 preordain
2 meditate
1 Intuition
3 turnabout
4 timespiral
1 candelabra of tawnos
3 cunning wish
4 force of will
2 Flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
1 Blue sun's zenith
1 Brainfreeze
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
2 Flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
1 Surgical extraction
1 Ravenous trap
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's recall
1 Echoing truth
1 Wipe away
@Alias1983
This deck is very clunky. To the point that it doesn't surprise me at all that you Fizzed against 8 rack.
Notes:
-You play too many land. Go to 17.
-Too many counterspells. 7 main should be the max.
-Too many counters in the board. Should be around 3 max.
-Intuition is not a good spell for the deck. Prob better off playing actual sensei's top.
-Play a bounce spell main, the only 2 for consideration is snap or wipe away.
-Highly recommend NOT playing Hurkyl's Recall, ravenous trap, or the 3rd meditate in the board.
I do have to many lands but everyone runs 18 for consistency and that was apparent against my "elves" opponent when ibhad to mull for a Land off the scry and inlet him play first so I could get that land but I still beat him. He was fast g1 but g2 was the land issue and g3 turnabout and force saved me.
8 counters main soni can be sure to have a counter in the first couple turns, I make sure to exile counters to force if I can but I will exile whatever I dont need if it's not the combo turn.
I still have e yet to exile a high tide but I will if I have to.
The board counters are in case and filler, if anything I would swap them for tips(2 pierce and 1 fluster).
I use recall, trap and the extra meditate I case of redundancy, I have wished for meditate several times.
I used Intuition to find a la d for the combo turn and scrolls so I can find that 1of that would of been discarded from the intuition.
I feel my deck is ideal right now and if I do drop a land it's a fetch, if I drop a counter spell its Flusterstorm and I would replace them with retraced image.
I like how the deck works but I can try the 2 MB spell changes, I like the SB as is.
@mykatdied
When i was at GP pitt this weekend i saw and talked a little bit of high tide with feline. Some of the stuff mentioned was interesting some stuff not so much, so ill leave the most interesting stuff here.
I mentioned to feline that i was really trying to push the deck into a bigger spotlight, I even had my high tide deck on me for feline to look at. After feline looked through my deck the general consensus was it looked pretty tight, and was interested to see predict after i mentioned why i ran it. Feline was surprised that i didn't run counterbalance after looking into my board, seeing my 4 top main. We just agreed that counterbalance isn't what the deck wants to be doing and we 100% agreed on thing in the ice. Feline questioned my mystic remora out of the board but said defense grid wasn't good either. Other things mentioned were that feline doesn't really "play" magic as much now because of doing video recording and other magic community things but the insight was cool. I think this is for us as a group to consider because we don't have someone in the trenches as much anymore and that person can't help us with meta advice.
Here is my deck. And this is from memory so i apologize and will change if its incorrect.
2 misty rainforest
4 flooded strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 high tide
4 merchant scroll
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 predict
1 turnabout
4 timespiral
3 candelabra of tawnos
3 cunning wish
3 force of will
2 Flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
1 snap
1 Wipe away
1 Blue sun's zenith
1 Brainfreeze
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 spell pierce
1 Surgical extraction
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing truth
1 Mystic Remora
3 Thing in the ice
1 mindbreak trap
1 Force of will
Before i travel to scg worcester I want to know what deck i am on. High tide is probably an 80% of happening. The other 20% is miracles. But i did play legacy this weekend at gp pitt and did pretty well only losing to miracles in and 4 round tournament. The miracles player boarded 3 red blast and 2 flusterstorms. i can't really explain why miracles has so much blue hate out of the board when the normal meta now is eldrazi and death and taxes, but clearly miracles doesn't seem to care about those match ups. Also this guy is the 2nd person i have seen with this type of board in recent playing. Honestly i think the best meta call is a non blue deck that combo's, like lands or elves. We need high tide to beat miracles, i think its ambitious to think that we can dodge the match up. Does anyone here have an idea on how to do this?
As far as beating miracles it would be good to have surgical to take down force of will for the combo turn. Naturally we need wipe away for counterbalance. If there was some way to prevent them from drawing cards that would be an option as well.
@Alias1983
I wasn't clear about meditate. I wouldn't run the 3rd copy of meditate. 2 is the most i would play in the 75. that's all i am saying. Board or main don't matter.
I know you feel your deck is "ideal" but even you mentioned you needed more testing against teir 1 decks. I think next legacy tournament you play in you should try retraced image. I say try because adding that card to your deck will cause you to fizzle out more. I am not going to sit here and tell you to not put your hand on top of a fire because it will burn you, ill let you put your hand on top a fire for yourself, this way you learn the lesson yourself. This will also let you better understand high tide when you try out these different cards. Not because of the new cards your trying, but because of the old cards you took out.
If no one in your area has a teir 1 deck, you guys should proxy a couple decks that are stock from mtgtop8.com or something. This way you can get the high tide testing you need against those match ups.
I've used spell pierce more than Flusterstorm and fow equally as spell pierce.
I'm not sure I want to try retraced image tbh, I'd rather use something like manipulate fate and even then I'm not sure if I would like it.
So far I like where I'm at, need more candles but if I take anything out I'm replacing with turnabout.
If I run a maindeck bounce spell its snap so I'm going to drop a fetch for a snap.
Life matters against fast aggro and I'd rather keep as much as I can.
Yeah I know run fetches with brainstorm but very rarely do I get the chance to shuffle away cards and most the time I still want them cards.
2/2 split ponder preordain, I'd do 1/3 split ponder preordain tbh, i'd never drop to 3 fow, always 4.
I question wipe away main
@Alias1983
Here are my reasons:
-i would never split to preordain because of being able to shuffle with ponder and the fact that ponder sees more for cards to predict is more useful. Preordain does not work well with predict period. I would also mention here that brainstorm and ponder are restricted in vintage. Yes i want to play 4.
-I understand that 3 force of will main MIGHT not be correct. But when talking with feline we both agreed that force is a card that should only be used if absolutely necessary. High tide runs force to only deal with threats that attack our game plan. We normally don't want to force ever because of the card disadvantage it provides and we need the most cards to combo effectively. Also force is a fizzle card when using spiral. So i cut a force because its inefficient and card disadvantage. I should also mention that I didn't cut it from the 75 as the 4th one is in the board. This replaced pact of negation.
-You questioning wipe away and not giving a reason, questions why you question it. see what i did there...? Basically just saying why don't you like wipe away main? It helps against miracles, great against death and taxes, and during the combo turn you can bounce candel or top for value. seems like a win win to me.
@mykatdied
Ironically i think we need to surgical red blast. a 1 mana stop any spell in our deck is gross. I actually think that defense grid against miracles is not a terrible choice but in most other match ups i feel it comes up short. Is [card]
Teferi's Realm[/card] playable against miracles?
That's why I run more countermagic.
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@monovfox
I actually think the game going long against miracles is bad becuase of the amount of red blast and snapcaster they have.
@mykatdied
I agree 100%. I think i am going to try this teferi's realm tech tonight and see how i do. Realm is a quick answer to counterbalance before they really setup with pyroblast. Also this tech depends on if my LGS has Realm or not. Update soon...
Also someone over at the source has had success with a build that has past in flames. It makes him less reliant on Time Spiral and helps to keep random 7 card hands from fizzling. It seems interesting. Not sure I love the idea of non basic lands, but it seems like it could be a good shift for the deck to take and become more competitive again since every spell you cast is at that point 2 spells instead of just 1.
@mykatdied
I also read that guys post from the source but here are my thoughts...
If you want to play with past in flames isn't it just better to play storm? I think if your looking to go off of basics and play that card then why be a worse storm deck? Also spiral and past in flames is a literal bad combo with each other.
You other point of 2 spells instead of just 1 is actually incorrect. Time spiral lets high tide reuse the spells again by drawing them again. Also if you have to spiral a 2nd time past the 1st you might even cast the same card a 3rd time.
Anything that we play is going to get red blasted. That argument is bad. The only options to look into might be artifact options. it might be the best thing to run defense grid but i just feel wrong playing with it. Do we have other options?
@mykatdied
I had a long session with miracles this weekend and yesterday. I can say that i must have played around 25 games and i think i won 1 game. about 8 were preboard and and the others post board. The only game i won was a preboarded game. I think i am going to hold off on high tide a bit till miracles has died off a little bit in the current meta. If we can't beat the most popular deck of the format, then i think blue mages should look elsewhere. I have not given up 100% on high tide though... I still like the deck and such. Ill keep checking back here in case the tech changes to where we can beat miracles or miracles is not a high percentage of the meta.
All hail high tide!
Actually according to mtgs for control decks d&t is the most popular even though the current literations of it it's just mono white blade deck.
Many seem to use titi to great success but I can't find anyone with them to trade so I can't do much.
Still trying to make a list for more all in combo, cb is the problem for us.
Wishing for wipe away is not going to work, too mana intense, even echoing truth and we don't want to see them again when we combo unless we have candles or my idea scm.