I have recently taken the deck up as well. I would be interested if Mystic Remora works out for you.
Sadly the meta is just not kind to high tide right not. Omni is faster, and miracles is everywhere (which is a horrible matchup). Furthermore, the decks that pray on miracles are springing up like MUD which also happen to have a good high tide matchup (MD chalices on 1 :().
So I have been eyeing this deck for years now. I realize it may not be favorable in a current meta, but would it be possible to shrink the wish board for 3 or 4 to include leyline of sanctity? mull to get it in the opening hand, and the discard spells become useless. Would that be viable? I am looking at ways to not die to discard. I think if 1 wipe away is in main and 1 in board, that could improve miracles.
I saw Feline talking on a reddit post a few months back, and she said a little about running 4 counterbalance in the board with 4 top main. That could be neat too. I realize we aren't tier 1. The deck is slow, but if we can combo turn 3 or 4, it seems like we could even beat out the aggro, combo, and possibly miracles matches. What do people think? I never liked Dig anyway for it can be a dead card opening hand.
I beat Miracles both times I went against it, but I lost to Jund, and Shardless Bug, which is usually favored since they don't have heavy counterspells. Other loss was to Elves once. Out of the 15 match ups, I think I went against Delver strategies twice. I also played against the Mono Red Sneak attack guy first round of day 2.
4 High Tide
4 Time Spiral
1 Turnabout
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Sensei's Divining Top
6 Fetchland
12 Island
-
Sideboard:
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
1 Intuition
1 Capsize
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Snap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Counterbalance
I would play the same list right now. The only thing I toy with idea wise sometimes is -1 Candelabra for +1 Preordain / Sometimes I want a second Wipe Away so I can main 1 / side 1 against Miracles, the weakest spots in the sideboard are the 1 Surgical Extraction, & 1 of the counterspells in the sideboard, many times if I can get 1 to do the job, I can get the other and 85% of the time, which counterspell I get doesn't matter.
On MTGthesource, these people are a little more active, but this thread has died a little because we have many matches that are simply faster. This deck plays a little slow, unfortunately. I have been playing recently, and it can do well, but storm, miracles, dredge can all be problems in my experience. What do you struggle with, and what's your list? We can surely talk about things!
So, what about that new card spoiled in Shadows Over Innistrad, Pore Over the Pages.
"
Pore Over the Pages {3}{U}{U}
Sorcery
Draw three cards, untap up to two lands, then discard a card.
"
It plays two major wholes for the deck, it Draw cards and Untap lands, just like the old Frantic Search, it can't be found via Merchant Scroll like the previous, but this one would not be a card disadvantage at least.
During the combo it would end up costing one mana, given you had another five mana available initially and only one High Tide cast. I think it might be too heavy to play a full set along side the Spirals, but maybe two could be fine.
Another thing that comes to my mind is that even if it's a interesting choice, where in the deck would you fit it. My first idea would be on the Cunning Wish spot or a 2/1 split with it, since whenever you cast a Wish, you probably already have more mana available for which ever card you're wishing for (except from Surgical Extraction or Ravenous Trap). Or maybe put it on Candleless versions.
Disclaimer: this is not a good deck for new Legacy players. Piloting this deck properly requires lots of practice, and extensive knowledge of the metagame. I highly recommend that you proxy this up and see if you like playing it, before you buy it.
High Tide (and Solidarity, the instant-speed version) is a blue combo deck that wins by forcing the opponent to draw too many cards. The combo uses High Tide in conjunction with spells that untaplands, in order to generate large amounts of mana, which is then used on a BSZ for lethal (your opponent will draw his or her entire deck). Everything else is a part of the toolbox. Cards like Brainstorm and Ponder sculpt your hand in the first few turns. All of the counterspells protect your combo and/or buy you extra turns to go off. Cunning Wish is used to build a very flexible wishboard, allowing you to grab silver bullets against specific decks.
It's worth noting that your list doesn't have Candelabra of Tawnos in it. Given the price tag, I understand why. However, Candelabra is a key part of this deck. Without it, you will probably be at least a turn slower than Candelabra-fueled lists, and it will be harder for you to win.
One of the best High Tide players around is Feline Longmore. She's infamous for playing this deck, and does so with incredible speed and accuracy. Here is a deck tech on Spiral Tide, and here is a deck tech on Solidarity. There are also a bunch of videos of her feature matches on Youtube.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I have done some adjustments, still waiting for FOW to tank some more before I get the other 2, wish flusterstorm would tank some, I still need time spiral. Otherwise I think its as best as I can make it.
Not sure I want a wish deck, how's countertop? Alread found 2 slots for top but testing shows its ok. Not great but just OK.
Not sure what to do after I get the other fow and Flusterstorm, I really have no idea. Is reset tide better? Should I go countertop tide? I play as fast as I can but as it is I need 4-5 islands and 90% of the time I can say I win in my meta.
Some aggro decks are a pain, I run snapcaster because I need that second or third high tide to keep going. I'm not a huge fan of wish boards as in my meta its too mana intensive and I can fizzle.
Looking at meditate to replace a few cantrips, maybe reset will be better as snap on snap for a reset will net more mana at 4-5 islands will be better but there is no other 1cmc instant that's worth a crap.
I do the remand brain freeze thing because I can have a smaller storm count and then tutor for bsz ftw. But that's not possible much of the time.
What about Vision Skeinsto force them to draw after a brain freeze?
Obviously turnabout is better but what about reality spasm? Is it even a consideration for not candle?
Edit
So last night I did some play time and I really need time spiral, all I can really do is search for BSZ, use SCM to re use scroll to fetch untappers; usually snap as I often have a turnabout already.
All this if I already have a hightide or 2, fetching for HT slows me down and I hope my opening hand is 2 lands, 1 HT, 3 counter magic and a draw spell so I can keep digging for lands and draw spells.
I use SCM and snap a lot, sorry for the book but I really want to make this deck complete. Timespiral is on my list of cards I need next as that will help dramatically.
There are probably a few answers to this question, but the largest one is that you will often want to play BSZ in your combo turn targeting yourself, and then use the same BSZ later on your opponent. It allows you to draw your own deck, and then make your opponent draw a lethal number of cards.
That maneuver is surprisingly complicated with Braingeyser or Stroke of Genius. Because Spiral Tide doesn't usually run Snapcaster, the only way to get cards out of your graveyard is to play Time Spiral, which also resets your hand and consequently increases your variance.
There are smaller reasons too, like Braingeyser is a sorcery, which means that, in a pinch, you can't play it on your opponent's turn to draw a few cards. But it's mostly the first reason I described.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
So, what about that new card spoiled in Shadows Over Innistrad, Pore Over the Pages.
"
Pore Over the Pages {3}{U}{U}
Sorcery
Draw three cards, untap up to two lands, then discard a card.
"
It plays two major wholes for the deck, it Draw cards and Untap lands, just like the old Frantic Search, it can't be found via Merchant Scroll like the previous, but this one would not be a card disadvantage at least.
During the combo it would end up costing one mana, given you had another five mana available initially and only one High Tide cast. I think it might be too heavy to play a full set along side the Spirals, but maybe two could be fine.
Another thing that comes to my mind is that even if it's a interesting choice, where in the deck would you fit it. My first idea would be on the Cunning Wish spot or a 2/1 split with it, since whenever you cast a Wish, you probably already have more mana available for which ever card you're wishing for (except from Surgical Extraction or Ravenous Trap). Or maybe put it on Candleless versions.
Sorry i'm being a nuisance but I'm working on a list and I am coming up short, no candles in the budget right now.
Not sure what to fill in, my shopping cart is already crazy right now and im losing my mind on the thought process on how I want to finish out a real time spiral list.
meta is 100% random, I can't even take a guess as what I will see from week to week.
57 mb 10sb
Some things as i high tide player i see that i would change. I would play 11 or 12 islands because you are not playing sensei's top (every point matters), I would consider taking out rebuild since you are not playing top or candle, I am not a total fan of ravenous trap but i understand why people run it, I would play a snap (not snapcaster mage) probably in the main board considering you have no way of dealing with a creature till cunning wish is online, I am unsure why the 4th turnabout as a wish target.
Things i do like, the intuition and the meditate as your flex slots.
Personally for me i have been back and forth trying the top builds and not trying them. I would also try and get your hands on 2-3 candles just so you can capsize in the board and make infinite mana.
rebuild in case of cb or cotv on 2 nd can cycle it later if need be.
I based my build off of candle builds as I don't have any, I could build another legacy deck for the price of candles.
I have been told to run tops but if I did that I would remove preordains and I like preordain. maybe I could make room for them in the sb?
Most candle lists I see have a turnabout in the sb, I could run 4 full main, but I should just board one out g2/3 just incase they extract my main untapper I can wish for one.
for nocandle I really don't know how I should run it, Im used to a snap/snap spring tide bsz me for 20, build storm win finish with bsz them.
Im kinda throwing ideas to the wind right now.
normally COTV comes down on 1 in every game that i have ever played. I guess if you expect your opponent to drop a COTV on 1 and 2 then i guess rebuild is right. I just feel that most games you lose when they have both COTV on 1 and 2. I just played at my LGS yesterday and i have to say not playing top actually felt great. Also my sideboard slots were not shrunk because of counterbalance. If it is possible for you to at least get 1 candle i highly recommend it. There were multiple times i use capsize to make infinite mana. If you don't have candle then you have no choice but to run turnabout. The biggest thing for me is that you have to have the threat of jamming on people on turn 3. Also i don't run a full set of candles, right now i run 3 and normally board out 1.
if you run top i would play cantrips as, 4 brainstorm, 4 preordain, 3 ponder. Even though ponder is insane it is the most close to top of all the cantrips. Also running top is a way to build quick and easy storm count. Are you going to run counterbalance?
I have been running thing in the ice and now will never turn back. Card is sick against death and taxes decks and maverick type variants. I feel D&T is on the rise in the legacy meta right now. Thing in the ice can also prove to be a possible house against miracles once they board out all their swords.
Quick notes from the LGS daily i played in... Also note that i am on 3 candles version...
- I never wished for turnabout once
- I never wished for pact of negation
- I killed most people by blue sunning them out of the game not brain freeze
- I played a counter suite of 3 force, 2 spell pierce, 2 flusterstorm.
- I ran 4 thing in the ice in my board and worked out great in all match-ups even as a surprise factor.
- I decided to play a intuition main and board both felt awesome
- I made sure to board out 1 high tide because of surgical
I don't have my deck on me but i can post my list if you want me to.
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I was thinking about playing Mystic Remora as a sideboard card for the Grixis Delver matchup. Probably 1-2. Is anybody trying that out right now?
I have recently taken the deck up as well. I would be interested if Mystic Remora works out for you.
Sadly the meta is just not kind to high tide right not. Omni is faster, and miracles is everywhere (which is a horrible matchup). Furthermore, the decks that pray on miracles are springing up like MUD which also happen to have a good high tide matchup (MD chalices on 1 :().
I actually got a lot of good responses to a thread I started two days ago regarding high tide asking for help. Check it out! https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/3dur82/calling_high_tide_enthusiasts_new_to_the_deck_and/
I saw Feline talking on a reddit post a few months back, and she said a little about running 4 counterbalance in the board with 4 top main. That could be neat too. I realize we aren't tier 1. The deck is slow, but if we can combo turn 3 or 4, it seems like we could even beat out the aggro, combo, and possibly miracles matches. What do people think? I never liked Dig anyway for it can be a dead card opening hand.
Thoughts?
I didn't catch anything.
I beat Miracles both times I went against it, but I lost to Jund, and Shardless Bug, which is usually favored since they don't have heavy counterspells. Other loss was to Elves once. Out of the 15 match ups, I think I went against Delver strategies twice. I also played against the Mono Red Sneak attack guy first round of day 2.
4 High Tide
4 Time Spiral
1 Turnabout
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Sensei's Divining Top
6 Fetchland
12 Island
-
Sideboard:
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
1 Intuition
1 Capsize
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Snap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Counterbalance
I would play the same list right now. The only thing I toy with idea wise sometimes is -1 Candelabra for +1 Preordain / Sometimes I want a second Wipe Away so I can main 1 / side 1 against Miracles, the weakest spots in the sideboard are the 1 Surgical Extraction, & 1 of the counterspells in the sideboard, many times if I can get 1 to do the job, I can get the other and 85% of the time, which counterspell I get doesn't matter.
stupid banned list update.
On MTGthesource, these people are a little more active, but this thread has died a little because we have many matches that are simply faster. This deck plays a little slow, unfortunately. I have been playing recently, and it can do well, but storm, miracles, dredge can all be problems in my experience. What do you struggle with, and what's your list? We can surely talk about things!
Take care
So, what about that new card spoiled in Shadows Over Innistrad, Pore Over the Pages.
"
Pore Over the Pages {3}{U}{U}
Sorcery
Draw three cards, untap up to two lands, then discard a card.
"
It plays two major wholes for the deck, it Draw cards and Untap lands, just like the old Frantic Search, it can't be found via Merchant Scroll like the previous, but this one would not be a card disadvantage at least.
During the combo it would end up costing one mana, given you had another five mana available initially and only one High Tide cast. I think it might be too heavy to play a full set along side the Spirals, but maybe two could be fine.
Another thing that comes to my mind is that even if it's a interesting choice, where in the deck would you fit it. My first idea would be on the Cunning Wish spot or a 2/1 split with it, since whenever you cast a Wish, you probably already have more mana available for which ever card you're wishing for (except from Surgical Extraction or Ravenous Trap). Or maybe put it on Candleless versions.
What do you think?
I am pretty new to Legacy in fact this is probably will be my first legacy deck so I just wondering how does this combo exactly work?
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-ub-24853#paper
Thanks so much in advance
High Tide (and Solidarity, the instant-speed version) is a blue combo deck that wins by forcing the opponent to draw too many cards. The combo uses High Tide in conjunction with spells that untap lands, in order to generate large amounts of mana, which is then used on a BSZ for lethal (your opponent will draw his or her entire deck). Everything else is a part of the toolbox. Cards like Brainstorm and Ponder sculpt your hand in the first few turns. All of the counterspells protect your combo and/or buy you extra turns to go off. Cunning Wish is used to build a very flexible wishboard, allowing you to grab silver bullets against specific decks.
It's worth noting that your list doesn't have Candelabra of Tawnos in it. Given the price tag, I understand why. However, Candelabra is a key part of this deck. Without it, you will probably be at least a turn slower than Candelabra-fueled lists, and it will be harder for you to win.
One of the best High Tide players around is Feline Longmore. She's infamous for playing this deck, and does so with incredible speed and accuracy. Here is a deck tech on Spiral Tide, and here is a deck tech on Solidarity. There are also a bunch of videos of her feature matches on Youtube.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
2x Brain Freeze
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterspell
1x Echoing Truth
2x Force of Will
4x High Tide
2x Remand
4x Snap
4x Turnabout
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Flooded Strand
10x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
I have done some adjustments, still waiting for FOW to tank some more before I get the other 2, wish flusterstorm would tank some, I still need time spiral. Otherwise I think its as best as I can make it.
Not sure I want a wish deck, how's countertop? Alread found 2 slots for top but testing shows its ok. Not great but just OK.
Not sure what to do after I get the other fow and Flusterstorm, I really have no idea. Is reset tide better? Should I go countertop tide? I play as fast as I can but as it is I need 4-5 islands and 90% of the time I can say I win in my meta.
Some aggro decks are a pain, I run snapcaster because I need that second or third high tide to keep going. I'm not a huge fan of wish boards as in my meta its too mana intensive and I can fizzle.
Looking at meditate to replace a few cantrips, maybe reset will be better as snap on snap for a reset will net more mana at 4-5 islands will be better but there is no other 1cmc instant that's worth a crap.
I do the remand brain freeze thing because I can have a smaller storm count and then tutor for bsz ftw. But that's not possible much of the time.
What about Vision Skeinsto force them to draw after a brain freeze?
Obviously turnabout is better but what about reality spasm? Is it even a consideration for not candle?
Edit
So last night I did some play time and I really need time spiral, all I can really do is search for BSZ, use SCM to re use scroll to fetch untappers; usually snap as I often have a turnabout already.
All this if I already have a hightide or 2, fetching for HT slows me down and I hope my opening hand is 2 lands, 1 HT, 3 counter magic and a draw spell so I can keep digging for lands and draw spells.
I use SCM and snap a lot, sorry for the book but I really want to make this deck complete. Timespiral is on my list of cards I need next as that will help dramatically.
Dredge
Mud
Blades
Etc
That maneuver is surprisingly complicated with Braingeyser or Stroke of Genius. Because Spiral Tide doesn't usually run Snapcaster, the only way to get cards out of your graveyard is to play Time Spiral, which also resets your hand and consequently increases your variance.
There are smaller reasons too, like Braingeyser is a sorcery, which means that, in a pinch, you can't play it on your opponent's turn to draw a few cards. But it's mostly the first reason I described.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Brain Freeze
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterspell
2x Force of Will
4x High Tide
2x Remand
4x Snap
4x Turnabout
4x Merchant Scroll
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
1x Time Spiral
4x Flooded Strand
10x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
How can such a fun deck have no discussion?
Not sure what to fill in, my shopping cart is already crazy right now and im losing my mind on the thought process on how I want to finish out a real time spiral list.
meta is 100% random, I can't even take a guess as what I will see from week to week.
57 mb 10sb
8 fetch
4 high tide
4 Time Spiral
3 turnabout
4 merchant scroll
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 preordain
3 cunning wish
1 Intuition
1 meditate
4 force of will
3 flusterstorm
1 brain freeze
1 turnabout
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 rebuild
1 echoing truth
1 ravenous trap
1 surgical extraction
1 flusterstorm
1 wipe away
Some things as i high tide player i see that i would change. I would play 11 or 12 islands because you are not playing sensei's top (every point matters), I would consider taking out rebuild since you are not playing top or candle, I am not a total fan of ravenous trap but i understand why people run it, I would play a snap (not snapcaster mage) probably in the main board considering you have no way of dealing with a creature till cunning wish is online, I am unsure why the 4th turnabout as a wish target.
Things i do like, the intuition and the meditate as your flex slots.
Personally for me i have been back and forth trying the top builds and not trying them. I would also try and get your hands on 2-3 candles just so you can capsize in the board and make infinite mana.
I based my build off of candle builds as I don't have any, I could build another legacy deck for the price of candles.
I have been told to run tops but if I did that I would remove preordains and I like preordain. maybe I could make room for them in the sb?
Most candle lists I see have a turnabout in the sb, I could run 4 full main, but I should just board one out g2/3 just incase they extract my main untapper I can wish for one.
for nocandle I really don't know how I should run it, Im used to a snap/snap spring tide bsz me for 20, build storm win finish with bsz them.
Im kinda throwing ideas to the wind right now.
if you run top i would play cantrips as, 4 brainstorm, 4 preordain, 3 ponder. Even though ponder is insane it is the most close to top of all the cantrips. Also running top is a way to build quick and easy storm count. Are you going to run counterbalance?
I have been running thing in the ice and now will never turn back. Card is sick against death and taxes decks and maverick type variants. I feel D&T is on the rise in the legacy meta right now. Thing in the ice can also prove to be a possible house against miracles once they board out all their swords.
Quick notes from the LGS daily i played in... Also note that i am on 3 candles version...
- I never wished for turnabout once
- I never wished for pact of negation
- I killed most people by blue sunning them out of the game not brain freeze
- I played a counter suite of 3 force, 2 spell pierce, 2 flusterstorm.
- I ran 4 thing in the ice in my board and worked out great in all match-ups even as a surprise factor.
- I decided to play a intuition main and board both felt awesome
- I made sure to board out 1 high tide because of surgical
I don't have my deck on me but i can post my list if you want me to.