Solidarity has the funniest storm matchup in the history of magic. You can respond to their infernal tutor or ad nauseum by fetching brain freeze and abusing their storm count. The look on their face is just priceless!
Also let it be known that this is the only tide variant I can afford since candelabra's are so damn expensive, and it might be more powerful anyway.
I'm glad there are Dig Through Times in that list--Treasure Cruise and DTT have performed well in goldfishing on Cockatrice in one of the High Tide lists I've saved in there, screw the anti-synergy with Time Spiralling in Merchant Scroll bullets.
Hi everyone, new to high tide i was wondering can a list be competitive without candles? and if so does anyone have a general idea of what that list would look like? I would like to build high tide (i have most of the pieces) besides candles which are outside of my budget for now, thanks!
Opt allows you to check the top of your library, and keep the card if it's useful. It's not as powerful as Ponder and Preordain, but the concept is the same.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Okay I guess I can get behind that (:
Is Peek even an option? (not as a 4 of obviously but 1 or 2) to know how to navigate during the big turn.
I really am interested in playing the deck and definitely want to buy into it. I find that strategy rather cool and let's face it, I want to play Legacy so that I can have fun playing degenerate strategies (: High Tide looks very original is its win condition and nothing else does that. I know about Legacy and how cards work since I already play in some events.
But how does this deck beat an opposing Flusterstorm? I guess by playing your own Flusterstorm countering opposing copies of Flusterstorm and maybe pushing it at the bottom of the library with Clique but outside of that, seems complicated right ?
Sorry if the questions sounds lame, it's just that I'd like to have some basic questions answered before starting playing it (:
Thanks in advance
Want real excitement? Play a High Tide mirror match. It's like two gunslingers staring each other down waiting to see who draws first. My one and only mirror match I won by simply going on the defensive and winning the counter war with that last Pact of Negation that he cast. Having 3 FoW and 3 other blue cards in your hand including a Flusterstorm can do that.
Without a doubt one of the most fun, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants decks you can play.
Okay I guess I can get behind that (:
Is Peek even an option? (not as a 4 of obviously but 1 or 2) to know how to navigate during the big turn.
I really am interested in playing the deck and definitely want to buy into it. I find that strategy rather cool and let's face it, I want to play Legacy so that I can have fun playing degenerate strategies (: High Tide looks very original is its win condition and nothing else does that. I know about Legacy and how cards work since I already play in some events.
But how does this deck beat an opposing Flusterstorm? I guess by playing your own Flusterstorm countering opposing copies of Flusterstorm and maybe pushing it at the bottom of the library with Clique but outside of that, seems complicated right ?
Sorry if the questions sounds lame, it's just that I'd like to have some basic questions answered before starting playing it (:
Thanks in advance
You can beat flusterstorm in a number of ways. The first is by making an attempt to go off with the expectation of not succeeding, just to start a counter war and flush out as much of their interaction as possible (including their flusterstorm). If you're left with even one card left in hand and that card is something like Meditate or Dig Through Time, you should be able to rapidly rebuild and try again within a turn or two.
The second way to beat flusterstorm is with Remand (if you run it). While you may not be able stop the flusterstorm itself, you can prevent it from being relevant by saving your business spell with Remand. This lets you either recast the spell immediately or wait until another turn. Snapcaster mage is a bit clunkier but can serve the same purpose as remand when fighting flusterstorm.
The third way is to just ignore that part of the stack and combo off above it. This is an option verses all countermagic and mixes nicely with the Remand approach (combo until you find the remand, then save your spell and keep going).
Outside of the three above situations, you may sometimes be able to pay for Flusterstorm (I've been able to pay for flusterstorm of Storm=15 when it was aimed at my brain freeze before) or simply flusterstorm back.
EDIT: It's worth noting that there is not an agreed upon stock list at this point. While the deck has been seeing a resurgence due to dig through time, there have not been enough pilots or tournaments for the lists to converge upon a tuned core. To give you an idea of another possible look for the deck, the below is the 75 that I've arrived at so far in testing.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Is Peek even an option? (not as a 4 of obviously but 1 or 2) to know how to navigate during the big turn.
Ordinarily, Solidarity goes off in response to lethal on the board. In fact, it's the whole point of running Solidarity as opposed to Spiral Tide. Unlike Spiral Tide, which has to strategically choose a place to combo out, Solidarity typically doesn't do that (although it can).
Your opponent will do something like swing for lethal damage, and while his or her creatures are attacking, you'll mill him or her for the win.
This brings me to Peek. Peek doesn't change anything about the board. Peek doesn't change anything about the contents of your opponent's hand. If he or her has FoW or something, Peek doesn't do anything to change that, and it doesn't even benefit you to know that the Force is there.
The problem with Peek is that it doesn't actually change how you "navigate" during the big turn. Solidarity doesn't typically have the luxury of baiting out a FoW.
But how does this deck beat an opposing Flusterstorm? I guess by playing your own Flusterstorm countering opposing copies of Flusterstorm and maybe pushing it at the bottom of the library with Clique but outside of that, seems complicated right ?
ExpiredRascals knows what he's talking about, so pretty much everything he said.
I tend to play Spiral Tide (as opposed to Solidarity), but Spiral Tide has access to Turnabout too. In the middle of your combo turn, if Flusterstorm is starting to look enticing for your opponent, you can play Turnabout tapping down your opponent's lands, which prevents him or her from being able to cast Flusterstorm in the first place. This is a relevant play in Spiral Tide because Time Spiral refills your opponent's hand in addition to your own. It's probably far less relevant in Solidarity, but it's something else to think about. (ExpiredRascals's list doesn't even run Turnabout.)
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Thank you both for your answers, that's just great to have experienced players sharing with people like me who are interested in the deck.
I guess I'll start with Feline's list or ExpiredRascals' to see where I'm at. I guess I prefer Solidarity style more than Spiral style. As far as I understand, sideboard is more like a wish board with only 3-4 cards to really side in between games. the rest can be tutored by Wish right ?
There are a few other decks that run Burning Wish, and occasionally some offbeat decks that run Living Wish. Every deck that runs Wishes is, to some extent, a toolbox deck. However, unlike most other decks (that tend to tutor for win conditions), High Tide uses its sideboard like a Swiss Army knife.
Whatever you need Cunning Wish to be, that's what it is (including, but not limited to, win conditions).
To answer your question explicitly, yes, you can use Cunning Wish to grab cards out of your sideboard in the middle of a game. In fact, if you look at both Feline's and ExpiredRascals's lists, there aren't any maindeck win conditions (unless you feel like counting Snapcaster beats).
I like Feline's Vendilion Cliques in the side. Is that good ? Gut shot seems also very good also, to kill Thalia and unflipped Delvers.
If you watch the Deck Tech with Feline, she talks about them. It's hard for me to comment on, given I don't play Solidarity. That said, Feline knows what she's talking about.
In 2014, Spiral Tide was in the Top 16 of a SCG Open Series seven times. Feline was responsible for six of them. There is no one that has more success with High Tide decks than Feline. Sure, Spiral Tide isn't Solidarity, but the two decks are extremely similar.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Okay, I'm a little confused. I don't normally play Solidarity but play Spiral Tide. How does milling them when they're attacking you for lethal win the game for you? You're dead so they never have to take their next draw step.
Save two Wishes when you combo out to fetch the two wincons if you're facing combat for lethal. It's fairly easy to ramp up to some 20 mana and then use most of it on cantrips to dig for the Wishes and built up storm counters, use one to get Brain Freeze and then mill opponent out, the use the other Wish to USZ for 1.
Another very good point is to combo out in response to the opponent playing some blue cantrip, preferably Brainstorm or Ponder. Sometimes even when they have FoW in hand they can't pitch it because their only other blue card in hand is the cantrip on the stack. The cantrip also draws them a card so you only need to deck them with Brain Freeze.
Solidarity excels at catching the opponent when they don't expect it.
Okay, I'm a little confused. I don't normally play Solidarity but play Spiral Tide. How does milling them when they're attacking you for lethal win the game for you? You're dead so they never have to take their next draw step.
Save two Wishes when you combo out to fetch the two wincons if you're facing combat for lethal. It's fairly easy to ramp up to some 20 mana and then use most of it on cantrips to dig for the Wishes and built up storm counters, use one to get Brain Freeze and then mill opponent out, the use the other Wish to USZ for 1.
Another very good point is to combo out in response to the opponent playing some blue cantrip, preferably Brainstorm or Ponder. Sometimes even when they have FoW in hand they can't pitch it because their only other blue card in hand is the cantrip on the stack. The cantrip also draws them a card so you only need to deck them with Brain Freeze.
Solidarity excels at catching the opponent when they don't expect it.
For blue decks, it's great to combo out in response to a draw spell, because your opponent is frequently digging for something that he or she needs, including a counterspell.
For nonblue decks, it's common to combo out in response to lethal damage on the board, or a Lightning Bolt on the stack. It's no coincidence that all of the cards in Solidarity get played at instant speed, and waiting for lethal maximizes the time that you have to sculpt your hand.
EDIT: I won't say that Solidarity can only go off during an opponent's turn, but if you look at Reset, it can only be played during your opponent's turn, AFTER that player has drawn a card for the turn. If you try to combo out on your own turn, you lose access to your Resets, which really hurts the deck. And if you combo out on your opponent's turn, they need to draw a card somehow in order to lose on that turn.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
To elaborate on what charon said a little. When Solidarity goes off on its own turn, it typically takes advantage of needing only a very soft storm count. If your opponent is stocked on interaction but thinks they can tap out safely as you have no business on your own turn, you can achieve a kill without even generating an untap. Here's an example:
Cast High Tide (Storm=1), cast two 1CMC spells like Opt/Brainstorm/Flusterstorm (remember that you can flusterstorm your own spell and then have the storm copies all target the flusterstorm) (storm=3). Now here is where it gets tricky:
Cast Brain Freeze, respond to the storm trigger with Remand on your brain freeze, recast brain freeze. Each storm trigger resolves seeing 5 storm and you've milled them for 33 (which can be lethal verses blue decks doing heavy cantripping and cruising). A single Force of Will in that sequence can pump you up to milling for 39. All of this was possible with just 5 lands in play and a mediocre hand. With more lands, double High Tide, or an untap like Snap or Turnabout, it gets even easier to generate significant storm on a soft-combo.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
What are folks' thoughts on Peek and Repeal? I have been running two of each in lieu of Impulse, and have been pretty happy with the results. Peek in particular helps let you know what you need to fight against, and Repeal has a use against almost every deck (and using one mana to bounce a flipped Delver of Secrets is pretty pimp).
What are folks' thoughts on Peek and Repeal? I have been running two of each in lieu of Impulse, and have been pretty happy with the results. Peek in particular helps let you know what you need to fight against, and Repeal has a use against almost every deck (and using one mana to bounce a flipped Delver of Secrets is pretty pimp).
Peek is an effect that I think the deck would like to have, but I don't think it's a card that you can afford to fit. The lack of card selection on it makes it pretty weak.
Repeal is a card that I've been pretty impressed by in my SB. My list condenses mainboard bounce and untap (into snap), so I've not been able to fit it in, but I've gone from initially not liking the concept of the card at all to being very happy with it in practice.
All of that aside, I would definitely not cut Impulse for either of those cards. The deep card selection is just so important both for finding land drops in a land-light mana-hungry deck and for finding the right business spells when combo'ing.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I remember reading here that Mind Over Matter is usually not necessary and haven't been in lists for a while now, but i've been thinking that with the introduction of the two cards that was been discussed not long ago, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, which CharonsObol had very valuable oppinion about it that I agree with, get me wondering if Delve and Mind Over Matter could be used together in order to discard, mainly, unplayed lands from your hand, probably after a Time Spiral, and removing them from the game with Delve, possibly reducing significantly the chances of lands in general to appear on your hand again and maybe causing a "fizzle". However I get that the list is already too tight, as before mentioned by CharonsObol, so my second question would be that if it could be used, perharps, on a candleless version increasing its resilience after a Time Spiral in case that the other version really lacks slots.
I've been reading this thread for a while now and after seen Feline, among others, playing with it I felt like trying it out and now I intend to keep on with it. I decided to create a list to start with (a budget one) so them I could play with it while I haven't managed to finishing the list with the "ideal cards". I went to a Legacy event on my city on sunday (small one) with my list and was able to won it ^^.
I hope my questions wasn't off topic and that it helps
Hey all, I have created a separate thread for Solidarity here. Try and direct all discussion on Reset-based High Tide to that thread as this thread is directed at Time Spiral-based High Tide discussion.
(I understand that there wasn't a clear alternate location until now as the previous Solidarity threads look to have found their way to the archive)
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I remember reading here that Mind Over Matter is usually not necessary and haven't been in lists for a while now, but i've been thinking that with the introduction of the two cards that was been discussed not long ago, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, which CharonsObol had very valuable oppinion about it that I agree with, get me wondering if Delve and Mind Over Matter could be used together in order to discard, mainly, unplayed lands from your hand, probably after a Time Spiral, and removing them from the game with Delve, possibly reducing significantly the chances of lands in general to appear on your hand again and maybe causing a "fizzle". However I get that the list is already too tight, as before mentioned by CharonsObol, so my second question would be that if it could be used, perharps, on a candleless version increasing its resilience after a Time Spiral in case that the other version really lacks slots.
I've been reading this thread for a while now and after seen Feline, among others, playing with it I felt like trying it out and now I intend to keep on with it. I decided to create a list to start with (a budget one) so them I could play with it while I haven't managed to finishing the list with the "ideal cards". I went to a Legacy event on my city on sunday (small one) with my list and was able to won it ^^.
I hope my questions wasn't off topic and that it helps
Mind over Matter is a powerful card, but in my experience, it's really only at its best when you already have a Candelabra in play (and an active High Tide). This means that it is a 6 mana spell that does very little unless you're already combo-ing (and that it is likely not a great option for candel-less builds). In my experience, Spiral Tide would much prefer just wishing for capsize to produce actual infinite mana under this circumstance rather than run a maindeck card with such a narrow window of utility. Given this, I do not believe Dig Through Time pushes Mind Over Matter back into being an advisable card to run. As an aside: I will note that Mind Over Matter was featured in the early Extended High Tide lists, but it was borderline too clunky at the time, and I do not feel that time has made Legacy any friendlier to the card.
Dig Through Time on the other hand is a card that has been extraordinary in Solidarity (the other High Tide deck that dominated much of the recent discussion in this thread), but has generally been spurned in Spiral Tide due to the inherent recursive nature of Time Spiral (making you generally unwilling to RFG spells from your yard to delve). That being said, it has been featured in at least one high-placing list. Personally, I do not feel Dig Through Time is appropriate for Spiral Tide, but the card has enough raw power that I understand why people are trying to fit it in.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
For candleless builds Reality Spasm is an option I think. It functions Similarly to Turnabout (even able to tap opponent's blue sources sometimes,) and playing two of them would mean you have access to the same number of untappers as Candle builds. I have personally tried the card, and it works as intended. It typically costs 5-6 mana, which is a bit much, but it always serves it's primary function as a ritual. It does get shuffled back in from Time Spiral which is a drawback worth mentioning.
Thoughts?
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
If I were to go with a replacement over candles I would use another obscure untapper from urza's saga in peregrine drake. Probably the most efficient untapper at sorcery other than turnabout and candelabra other than cloud of faeries but cloud doesn't allow you to go big enough whereas drake generates far more mana and when combined with snap is a huge mana generator that has the added bnonus of being able to block flipped delver.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
If I were to go with a replacement over candles I would use another obscure untapper from urza's saga in peregrine drake. Probably the most efficient untapper at sorcery other than turnabout and candelabra other than cloud of faeries but cloud doesn't allow you to go big enough whereas drake generates far more mana and when combined with snap is a huge mana generator that has the added bnonus of being able to block flipped delver.
At that point, you may as well start casting Palinchron. Can go infinite with 2 High Tides and 4+ lands, or 3 High Tides and 3+ lands.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
If I were to go with a replacement over candles I would use another obscure untapper from urza's saga in peregrine drake. Probably the most efficient untapper at sorcery other than turnabout and candelabra other than cloud of faeries but cloud doesn't allow you to go big enough whereas drake generates far more mana and when combined with snap is a huge mana generator that has the added bnonus of being able to block flipped delver.
At that point, you may as well start casting Palinchron. Can go infinite with 2 High Tides and 4+ lands, or 3 High Tides and 3+ lands.
My lgs has a foil that looks pretty.
I know it's a dead deck but any ideas on if I should build a different list as usually t4 I can combo ftw. I'd love to go on 3 lands but that's not possible unless I have snap and they got a dude I can bounce.
Also let it be known that this is the only tide variant I can afford since candelabra's are so damn expensive, and it might be more powerful anyway.
I'm glad there are Dig Through Times in that list--Treasure Cruise and DTT have performed well in goldfishing on Cockatrice in one of the High Tide lists I've saved in there, screw the anti-synergy with Time Spiralling in Merchant Scroll bullets.
Oh, you've gone through a bunch of your deck and have a lethal storm count? Mill 30+?
Here's a recent list from Feline Longmore.
4x Brainstorm
3x Cunning Wish
3x Dig Through Time
3x Flusterstorm
3x Force of Will
4x High Tide
4x Impulse
4x Meditate
4x Opt
4x Reset
2x Snap
4x Flooded Strand
11x Island
4x Polluted Delta
Creature (3)
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
2x Brain Freeze
1x Dig Through Time
1x Flusterstorm
1x Force of Will
1x Pact of Negation
1x Rebuild
1x Snap
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Turnabout
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Wipe Away
Opt allows you to check the top of your library, and keep the card if it's useful. It's not as powerful as Ponder and Preordain, but the concept is the same.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Want real excitement? Play a High Tide mirror match. It's like two gunslingers staring each other down waiting to see who draws first. My one and only mirror match I won by simply going on the defensive and winning the counter war with that last Pact of Negation that he cast. Having 3 FoW and 3 other blue cards in your hand including a Flusterstorm can do that.
Without a doubt one of the most fun, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants decks you can play.
You can beat flusterstorm in a number of ways. The first is by making an attempt to go off with the expectation of not succeeding, just to start a counter war and flush out as much of their interaction as possible (including their flusterstorm). If you're left with even one card left in hand and that card is something like Meditate or Dig Through Time, you should be able to rapidly rebuild and try again within a turn or two.
The second way to beat flusterstorm is with Remand (if you run it). While you may not be able stop the flusterstorm itself, you can prevent it from being relevant by saving your business spell with Remand. This lets you either recast the spell immediately or wait until another turn. Snapcaster mage is a bit clunkier but can serve the same purpose as remand when fighting flusterstorm.
The third way is to just ignore that part of the stack and combo off above it. This is an option verses all countermagic and mixes nicely with the Remand approach (combo until you find the remand, then save your spell and keep going).
Outside of the three above situations, you may sometimes be able to pay for Flusterstorm (I've been able to pay for flusterstorm of Storm=15 when it was aimed at my brain freeze before) or simply flusterstorm back.
EDIT: It's worth noting that there is not an agreed upon stock list at this point. While the deck has been seeing a resurgence due to dig through time, there have not been enough pilots or tournaments for the lists to converge upon a tuned core. To give you an idea of another possible look for the deck, the below is the 75 that I've arrived at so far in testing.
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Island
1 Gut Shot
1 Snap
1 Wipe Away
1 Repeal
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Meditate
2 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Brain Freeze
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Ordinarily, Solidarity goes off in response to lethal on the board. In fact, it's the whole point of running Solidarity as opposed to Spiral Tide. Unlike Spiral Tide, which has to strategically choose a place to combo out, Solidarity typically doesn't do that (although it can).
Your opponent will do something like swing for lethal damage, and while his or her creatures are attacking, you'll mill him or her for the win.
This brings me to Peek. Peek doesn't change anything about the board. Peek doesn't change anything about the contents of your opponent's hand. If he or her has FoW or something, Peek doesn't do anything to change that, and it doesn't even benefit you to know that the Force is there.
The problem with Peek is that it doesn't actually change how you "navigate" during the big turn. Solidarity doesn't typically have the luxury of baiting out a FoW.
ExpiredRascals knows what he's talking about, so pretty much everything he said.
I tend to play Spiral Tide (as opposed to Solidarity), but Spiral Tide has access to Turnabout too. In the middle of your combo turn, if Flusterstorm is starting to look enticing for your opponent, you can play Turnabout tapping down your opponent's lands, which prevents him or her from being able to cast Flusterstorm in the first place. This is a relevant play in Spiral Tide because Time Spiral refills your opponent's hand in addition to your own. It's probably far less relevant in Solidarity, but it's something else to think about. (ExpiredRascals's list doesn't even run Turnabout.)
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
A Wishboard is the hallmark of High Tide decks.
There are a few other decks that run Burning Wish, and occasionally some offbeat decks that run Living Wish. Every deck that runs Wishes is, to some extent, a toolbox deck. However, unlike most other decks (that tend to tutor for win conditions), High Tide uses its sideboard like a Swiss Army knife.
Whatever you need Cunning Wish to be, that's what it is (including, but not limited to, win conditions).
To answer your question explicitly, yes, you can use Cunning Wish to grab cards out of your sideboard in the middle of a game. In fact, if you look at both Feline's and ExpiredRascals's lists, there aren't any maindeck win conditions (unless you feel like counting Snapcaster beats).
If you watch the Deck Tech with Feline, she talks about them. It's hard for me to comment on, given I don't play Solidarity. That said, Feline knows what she's talking about.
In 2014, Spiral Tide was in the Top 16 of a SCG Open Series seven times. Feline was responsible for six of them. There is no one that has more success with High Tide decks than Feline. Sure, Spiral Tide isn't Solidarity, but the two decks are extremely similar.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
What am I missing here?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyAnother very good point is to combo out in response to the opponent playing some blue cantrip, preferably Brainstorm or Ponder. Sometimes even when they have FoW in hand they can't pitch it because their only other blue card in hand is the cantrip on the stack. The cantrip also draws them a card so you only need to deck them with Brain Freeze.
Solidarity excels at catching the opponent when they don't expect it.
Frenadol has it right:
For blue decks, it's great to combo out in response to a draw spell, because your opponent is frequently digging for something that he or she needs, including a counterspell.
For nonblue decks, it's common to combo out in response to lethal damage on the board, or a Lightning Bolt on the stack. It's no coincidence that all of the cards in Solidarity get played at instant speed, and waiting for lethal maximizes the time that you have to sculpt your hand.
EDIT: I won't say that Solidarity can only go off during an opponent's turn, but if you look at Reset, it can only be played during your opponent's turn, AFTER that player has drawn a card for the turn. If you try to combo out on your own turn, you lose access to your Resets, which really hurts the deck. And if you combo out on your opponent's turn, they need to draw a card somehow in order to lose on that turn.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Cast High Tide (Storm=1), cast two 1CMC spells like Opt/Brainstorm/Flusterstorm (remember that you can flusterstorm your own spell and then have the storm copies all target the flusterstorm) (storm=3). Now here is where it gets tricky:
Cast Brain Freeze, respond to the storm trigger with Remand on your brain freeze, recast brain freeze. Each storm trigger resolves seeing 5 storm and you've milled them for 33 (which can be lethal verses blue decks doing heavy cantripping and cruising). A single Force of Will in that sequence can pump you up to milling for 39. All of this was possible with just 5 lands in play and a mediocre hand. With more lands, double High Tide, or an untap like Snap or Turnabout, it gets even easier to generate significant storm on a soft-combo.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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Peek is an effect that I think the deck would like to have, but I don't think it's a card that you can afford to fit. The lack of card selection on it makes it pretty weak.
Repeal is a card that I've been pretty impressed by in my SB. My list condenses mainboard bounce and untap (into snap), so I've not been able to fit it in, but I've gone from initially not liking the concept of the card at all to being very happy with it in practice.
All of that aside, I would definitely not cut Impulse for either of those cards. The deep card selection is just so important both for finding land drops in a land-light mana-hungry deck and for finding the right business spells when combo'ing.
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I've been reading this thread for a while now and after seen Feline, among others, playing with it I felt like trying it out and now I intend to keep on with it. I decided to create a list to start with (a budget one) so them I could play with it while I haven't managed to finishing the list with the "ideal cards". I went to a Legacy event on my city on sunday (small one) with my list and was able to won it ^^.
I hope my questions wasn't off topic and that it helps
(I understand that there wasn't a clear alternate location until now as the previous Solidarity threads look to have found their way to the archive)
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Mind over Matter is a powerful card, but in my experience, it's really only at its best when you already have a Candelabra in play (and an active High Tide). This means that it is a 6 mana spell that does very little unless you're already combo-ing (and that it is likely not a great option for candel-less builds). In my experience, Spiral Tide would much prefer just wishing for capsize to produce actual infinite mana under this circumstance rather than run a maindeck card with such a narrow window of utility. Given this, I do not believe Dig Through Time pushes Mind Over Matter back into being an advisable card to run.
As an aside: I will note that Mind Over Matter was featured in the early Extended High Tide lists, but it was borderline too clunky at the time, and I do not feel that time has made Legacy any friendlier to the card.
Dig Through Time on the other hand is a card that has been extraordinary in Solidarity (the other High Tide deck that dominated much of the recent discussion in this thread), but has generally been spurned in Spiral Tide due to the inherent recursive nature of Time Spiral (making you generally unwilling to RFG spells from your yard to delve). That being said, it has been featured in at least one high-placing list. Personally, I do not feel Dig Through Time is appropriate for Spiral Tide, but the card has enough raw power that I understand why people are trying to fit it in.
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Thoughts?
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Currently Playing:
Retired
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
My lgs has a foil that looks pretty.
I know it's a dead deck but any ideas on if I should build a different list as usually t4 I can combo ftw. I'd love to go on 3 lands but that's not possible unless I have snap and they got a dude I can bounce.
Also is there an updated primer around?