I play u/r delver in modern and can borrow force of will, fetches, and duals.
I've been testing out my own version of u/r delver deck. Creatures are Grim Lavamancer, Young Pyromancer and Delver and the results are nice, especially with Young Pyromancer because he turns Brainstorm into 1/1 threats
Although, I have a mono-red burn deck and I still love playing it too.
Mono red can have a place because it's faster and has more redundancy. Why worry about whether you're going to have an early Force of Will or whether you'll topdeck burn to end the game when Force of Will isn't even a necessary card in the current meta?
I like it, I would play 1 ofs when certain decks were popular in the field just to getem in game1. Relics during RUG Delver season, Bridge during SnT, Searing blood has it's advantages in a non sac land build and gets the job done more consistently against what you're mainly fighting against in Delver, Stoneforge, Confidant, etc... BUT, when you face other creatures that survive the 2 damage you're playing 4 dead cards in the main that won't hit the player, which is something Searing Blaze DOES do. Other small advantages of Blood are being able to get around Leyline of Sanctity, but few small critter decks even SB them.
I have gone away from using my Rw Fetchland list at the moment, as the majority of my meta has transitioned into disrputing decks that fetch. (Quite a lot of Delver variants and Death and Taxes players) I have also found Searing Blaze to be rather clunky most of the time, and having fetches for only 2-3 Grim Lavamancers hasn't been particularly worthwile.
I think that Eidolon of the Great Revel is worth testing in the 4-of slot maindeck, as it's good to have a Pyrostatic Pillar that does something on an empty board. Skullcrack is a filler slot for now, although my meta is also pretty heavy on lifegain as well. (Batterskull mainly, although Umezawa's Jitte gets played a fair bit too. Countering the lifelink from Griselbrand is just gravy.) No Red Elemental Blasts or Pyroblasts in the 75, as the only threats I'd be concerned enough to use them on I can usually outrace. (True-Name Nemesis forces Burn to go over the top, and cantrips/counterspells can usually be ignored/played around.)
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Does Eidolon make playing Vexing Devil along side it bad? Because when if for example you draw devil and cast it after Eidolon is in play, you lose 2 life and your opponent would lose 2 life killing it if they decided to leave it in play.
Or is that good, because Eidolon pressures your opponent to take the 4 damage instead? Sure there will be situations were the 2 life is more important, but I guess I'm wondering if Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Vexing Devil more playable in the lategame.
- When I first saw EGR(Eidolon) I thought Flame Rift might become too heavy for the deck to play, anyone else agree?
- Also to ppl who plan on bringing burn to a tourney soon after Eidolon is released, you should be weary of Leyline of Sanctity getting a temporary boost in popularity if ppl fear it enough and expect an increase in Burn decks. This counters my Flame Rift suggestion, but Rift is definately overly damaging against Delver especially if Eidolon is in play.
- For those wanting to play 4 EGR in the main, do you think you'll play less storm hate in the SB? Mindbreak Trap?
Does Eidolon make playing Vexing Devil along side it bad? Because when if for example you draw devil and cast it after Eidolon is in play, you lose 2 life and your opponent would lose 2 life killing it if they decided to leave it in play.
I'm not sure... I would think the opponent would focus more on removing Eidolon from play, unless we are doing more damage to ourselves.
Or is that good, because Eidolon pressures your opponent to take the 4 damage instead? Sure there will be situations were the 2 life is more important, but I guess I'm wondering if Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Vexing Devil more playable in the lategame.
I think the Devil is good regardless what others think. There isn't too many 4/3 creatures with 1cc, and it's drawback actually makes him a quick/unblockable ball lightning that doesn't cost you an attack step.
Usually, when the opponent is down to 10 life or less... The devil will become a creature, regardless what's in play.
- When I first saw EGR(Eidolon) I thought Flame Rift might become too heavy for the deck to play, anyone else agree?
Originally, I thought Skullcrack retired flame rift... but there are players that still think flame rift is better (because it swings for that 1 extra point.)
I do agree you cannot play Flame Rift with Eidolon of the Great Revel... I'm planning on dropping my Keldon Marauders for EGR. (therefore I'll be playing 3 in the main and one in the sideboard)
- Also to ppl who plan on bringing burn to a tourney soon after Eidolon is released, you should be weary of Leyline of Sanctity getting a temporary boost in popularity if ppl fear it enough and expect an increase in Burn decks. This counters my Flame Rift suggestion, but Rift is definately overly damaging against Delver especially if Eidolon is in play.
It's one of the reason why I like the devil...
- For those wanting to play 4 EGR in the main, do you think you'll play less storm hate in the SB? Mindbreak Trap?
This is interesting, I like to see how EGR plays first... but I think in the long run I'm looking at 3 new card slots
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Does Eidolon make playing Vexing Devil along side it bad? Because when if for example you draw devil and cast it after Eidolon is in play, you lose 2 life and your opponent would lose 2 life killing it if they decided to leave it in play.
Or is that good, because Eidolon pressures your opponent to take the 4 damage instead? Sure there will be situations were the 2 life is more important, but I guess I'm wondering if Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Vexing Devil more playable in the lategame.
My friend Rob plays creature-based burn (ie; devil, guide, keldon/lava). I wanna say you DO play devil alongside Eidolon. My rationale from a non-burn player's perspective is because of its value. Eidolon is similar to Dark Confidant: if the opponent lets it sit on the table, you profit. Does it draw you more cards? No. However, you DO gain considerable advantage over x turns.
I think Devil plays well in conjunction with Eidolon (because now there's another threat that can quickly turn the tables against me). However, I can see the argument for running a spell in the Devil slot. Eidolon CAN hurt you, but leaving it out on the table is insane. Very few decks can deal with an early one. Blue decks durdle so much right now (cantrips/filter) -- I can easily see this guy pinging a few times before it is handled OR you place them at dangerously low life.
Eidolon may also bring back mox-based burn lists. You want to live the dream and muscle this guy out immediately. Yes, mox a horrible top deck later, but Eidolon changes burn's math/clock. We'll have to see how much damage Eidolon averages. It may be worth the risk mox brings to burn.
- When I first saw EGR(Eidolon) I thought Flame Rift might become too heavy for the deck to play, anyone else agree?
I go back and forth on this one. Eidolon deals zero damage when he comes out...but has potential to chip away very fast if he's not handled quickly by the opponent. Flame Rift is crazy efficient -- especially when you toss in a well timed Price of Progress.
- Also to ppl who plan on bringing burn to a tourney soon after Eidolon is released, you should be weary of Leyline of Sanctity getting a temporary boost in popularity if ppl fear it enough and expect an increase in Burn decks. This counters my Flame Rift suggestion, but Rift is definately overly damaging against Delver especially if Eidolon is in play.
Agreed. I finally acquired some the other week and pencil it in as a strong card to SB with. I think burn will certainly increase its % in the meta and LoS certainly makes sense for the opponent. Storm/combo also suffers against the card.
- For those wanting to play 4 EGR in the main, do you think you'll play less storm hate in the SB? Mindbreak Trap?
[/quote]
Pyrostatic Pillar effects don't auto-win against storm but they certainly make life harder. I'd opt to go with REB/Pyro instead of mindbreak. If you turn off their sculpting, that's huge. The anti-blue SB cards also have a wider array of applications. Mindbreak is exclusively for storm (and very very fringe for Elves which you should be beating anyways).
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Careful guys, experimentation with MD Pyrostatic Pillar a few months ago showed it to be a really tight race... I suppose it will help a lot if the Pillar can swing, but it's still not going to be a painless card to integrate. Doing 8-10 damage to oneself can backfire!
I'm pretty sure that a build centering on Eidolon of the Great Revel would pretty much require rethinking strategy and play out like a Suicide Red Deck. But the ability to hose other strategies might make it worth it.
Careful guys, experimentation with MD Pyrostatic Pillar a few months ago showed it to be a really tight race... I suppose it will help a lot if the Pillar can swing, but it's still not going to be a painless card to integrate. Doing 8-10 damage to oneself can backfire!
Yeah, that's really dangerous! I personally was thinking about getting the 4 MD, but it would be really bad to get 2 eidolons in the initial hand or along the game (which is really possible to happen having 4 MD)
What's bad about pillar is that if you dont have a creature swinging every turn, you will deal almost the same ammount of damage that you take. I'm thinking about a new build (SB is irrelevant as its meta-oriented)
Now thinking about SB Strategy. There are some cases where you run out of gas but you face decks that use to finish you off in 4/5 or even more turns (most fair decks). The thing about getting 20 lands is that you will have enough lands to throw all your burning spells and may win T3 or T4. When facing more grindy decks, wouldn't it be cool to side off 2 or 3 lands? I mean, you could still throw all your stuff until T4/5 if you get only 2 mana. For this kind of games (except for control decks) I think it would be nice to side off 2/3 lands and the sulfuric vortex (because of the lack of mana)
What do you guys think about it?
Searing blaze MD is about the fact that you can deal 3 damage to the opponent even if he hasn't a creature, by targeting him and then one creature of mine (that won't get damaged). That's really possible, right? I remember to have seen that discussion somewhere, but I dont know where anymore...
As someone looking to join Legacy through burn, but without fetchlands at the moment, what do you all think my creature base would look like?
I know I've seen some variations, but I'm not sure if there is a current "best" set up for the fetchless build.
Goblin Guide (Auto-include)
Grim Lavamancer (Less good without fetches, still good enough?
Vexing Devil
Hellspark Elemental
Keldon Marauders (Guaranteed two damage if it hits the table, best case 5 damage)
Some interesting ones from the SCG Open that Burn Top 8'd at
Young Pyromancer (Tokens are cool.)
Satyr Firedancer (Nice to have mainboard for more creature kills without sacrificing throwing things at people's face)
As someone looking to join Legacy through burn, but without fetchlands at the moment, what do you all think my creature base would look like?
I know I've seen some variations, but I'm not sure if there is a current "best" set up for the fetchless build.
Goblin Guide (Auto-include)
Grim Lavamancer (Less good without fetches, still good enough?
Vexing Devil
Hellspark Elemental
Keldon Marauders (Guaranteed two damage if it hits the table, best case 5 damage)
Some interesting ones from the SCG Open that Burn Top 8'd at
Young Pyromancer (Tokens are cool.)
Satyr Firedancer (Nice to have mainboard for more creature kills without sacrificing throwing things at people's face)
Any help is super appreciated! (:
I think lavamancer is not good enough without fetchlands, and I already think he's too situational and mana-dependant. If you run lavamancer you may not have mana enough to finish the game quickly and need to use a lot of spells before he start running. Without fetchlands he may only start burning at T3, which is too late IMO.
About Firedancer, I would play him against elves, or goblins. If he becomes a threat, other creature decks (except for tribals I think) would just get rid of him. If not, it would be a dead card. I mean, I don't see him being too useful in any situation. About elves decks, I play pyroclasm because it just wipes the board in T2 if needed. If you are on the draw, you may need to wipe the board on T2 because elves decks use to win T3 if not disrupted. If you play satyr, you will start killing creatures only on T3, and at a one-creature per burn rate
Young pyromancer could be cool against grindy decks. I would keep it on the sideboard, but its a cool option IMO, and very effective against some decks. But I think he would just be the primary target, at least I would make him the main target if I was on the other side. I mean, its the same problem as satyr, but pyromancer's effect is really greater against grindy decks IMO (also it isnt reactive, which means that it doesn't matter if the enemy has creatures on the field, he just does what he does anyway).
Vexing Devil is cool but I dont really like creatures that dont have a really great effect against other decks, or creatures that are good topdecks (I.E. creatures with haste). The best case scenario is hitting for four, it is great when happens but its not a good topdeck, which for me is really something that the possibility of hitting for 4 dmg doesn't compensate
I think Hellspark Elemental is great, because it hits 2 times, and when its in the graveyard it puts some pressure in the enemy. I mean, besides StP, noone ever sides in GY hate against burn decks, which usually makes you use him to full potential. It's mana-expensive but it really gives you a lot of gas if you need, hitting twice for 3 dmg
Keldon Marauders I just dont know... I really just dont like him. Too slow for the second damage trigger, maybe? I mean, if the enemy has a goyf or some token or some lightweight elf on the battlefield, he just doesnt connect. If it had trample it would be really good. The fact that the opponent has 1 turn to prepare for the connection really sucks, the fact that he doesn't have haste (which I think its great, because if he had he would be quite overpowered). The possibility of dealing 5 damage is only 2 turns after you cast him. If you play him on T2 it hits the 5 damage only at T4
Guys have someone already tried to make a SB splash for UR Delver?
I mean, I think it could run something like 2 volcanic island MB (using fetchlands and mountain) for 4 Delver on the main (no doubt about it), and something like 1 island and 14 blue cards for the splash on the side. It could be a counter-oriented SB, with something like 4 FoW, 4 Daze, 2 flusterstorm, 4 Brainstorm and 1 island
I haven't thought really through this idea, just throwing it for you guys to think about it
seems at that part to just keep it ur delver. 4 delver in burn could be interesting since almost all can flip delver. If it hits once in the air then its worth it but late game is no where guarenteed as much as a bolt spell would be
This is what I'm thinking I would run, creature-wise. I added the 2 Young Pyromancer in as the upside for them is just so awesome, but I don't really want to see too many of them in a game.
I'm just nervous about such a low creature count, but I'll get used to that since the spells are all so good, and basically the same "one mana three damage".
My burn only runs guides but I want nohin but power late gameand don't want to draw into a dead creature. But it looks good. Will Give u a good idea if u like the pyromancer a or not
So I built a deck that ran a minimum of creatures because Guide and fetchlands are expensive. As a long time MtG player thinking about trying Legacy I have 2 questions:
Is there significant enough difference in opponent sideboard that they'd be left with dead cards if you went from a purely burn to creature heavy? Seems like if it matters it'd be enough to get me a sort-of cheap win.
What typically beats burn? Seems like combo and reanimating It That Betrays turn one would be my threats.
Invest in Goblin Guide. He's not really a choice in Burn anymore. Fetches help a lot too.
I don't think going into a Sligh style transformation sideboard would be a good plan. Your opponent may or may not have blanks against you, and likely may not take out all their creature removal, as they assume most Burn decks run Goblin Guide and another creature at least. Take a look at the sideboard choices in the Primer. You'll see what kind of things Burn prepares itself for. Leyline of Sanctity, countermagic, Counterbalance, Trinisphere and other artifacts, Lifegain with Batterskull, etc. There are a lot of things Burn fears, but very few it can't prepare for in some way.
So I built a deck that ran a minimum of creatures because Guide and fetchlands are expensive. As a long time MtG player thinking about trying Legacy I have 2 questions:
Is there significant enough difference in opponent sideboard that they'd be left with dead cards if you went from a purely burn to creature heavy? Seems like if it matters it'd be enough to get me a sort-of cheap win.
What typically beats burn? Seems like combo and reanimating It That Betrays turn one would be my threats.
Combos are the worse matches for burn IMO
I prepare against Elves and aggro decks with Ensnaring Bridge. Here you will have to spend about 100 bucks for a set, but its essential for fightning creature decks. I mean, if they dont blow it up its probably a free win
Eidolon of Great Revel I haven't tested yet, but seems like a good SB against combo, elves included. I personally run 2 main and 2 SB (again, I haven't tested it yet).
Shattering spree is an "uncounterable" artifact destroyer, I think it's ensurance is better than smash to smithereens' 3 extra damage, since it's biggest problem about artifact are batterskull and jitte. If they hit the board and connect once, the game is over for you
Leyline isn't really used in my meta, so I dont prepare myself against it. There are some ways out of it, like a more control game and indirect burn (price of progress, among others I guess), also burning all their creatures away while you hit them with creatures and indirect burn.
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I've been testing out my own version of u/r delver deck. Creatures are Grim Lavamancer, Young Pyromancer and Delver and the results are nice, especially with Young Pyromancer because he turns Brainstorm into 1/1 threats
Although, I have a mono-red burn deck and I still love playing it too.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Lava Spike
3 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Flame Rift
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Price of Progress
1 Skullcrack
4 Fireblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Volcanic Fallout
I like it, I would play 1 ofs when certain decks were popular in the field just to getem in game1. Relics during RUG Delver season, Bridge during SnT, Searing blood has it's advantages in a non sac land build and gets the job done more consistently against what you're mainly fighting against in Delver, Stoneforge, Confidant, etc... BUT, when you face other creatures that survive the 2 damage you're playing 4 dead cards in the main that won't hit the player, which is something Searing Blaze DOES do. Other small advantages of Blood are being able to get around Leyline of Sanctity, but few small critter decks even SB them.
Also Fallout has always felt pointless to me.
I've been running an older list with Magma Jet, thinking of switching to multiple Skullcrack in the main. How did it work for you?
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Volcanic Fallout is great against Delver-based decks, but I thought it was tech against True Name Nemesis (it isn't). Will switch for something else.
19 Mountain
Creatures (8)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Burn Suite (33)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift
2 Skullcrack
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Skullcrack
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
I have gone away from using my Rw Fetchland list at the moment, as the majority of my meta has transitioned into disrputing decks that fetch. (Quite a lot of Delver variants and Death and Taxes players) I have also found Searing Blaze to be rather clunky most of the time, and having fetches for only 2-3 Grim Lavamancers hasn't been particularly worthwile.
I think that Eidolon of the Great Revel is worth testing in the 4-of slot maindeck, as it's good to have a Pyrostatic Pillar that does something on an empty board. Skullcrack is a filler slot for now, although my meta is also pretty heavy on lifegain as well. (Batterskull mainly, although Umezawa's Jitte gets played a fair bit too. Countering the lifelink from Griselbrand is just gravy.) No Red Elemental Blasts or Pyroblasts in the 75, as the only threats I'd be concerned enough to use them on I can usually outrace. (True-Name Nemesis forces Burn to go over the top, and cantrips/counterspells can usually be ignored/played around.)
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Or is that good, because Eidolon pressures your opponent to take the 4 damage instead? Sure there will be situations were the 2 life is more important, but I guess I'm wondering if Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Vexing Devil more playable in the lategame.
- When I first saw EGR(Eidolon) I thought Flame Rift might become too heavy for the deck to play, anyone else agree?
- Also to ppl who plan on bringing burn to a tourney soon after Eidolon is released, you should be weary of Leyline of Sanctity getting a temporary boost in popularity if ppl fear it enough and expect an increase in Burn decks. This counters my Flame Rift suggestion, but Rift is definately overly damaging against Delver especially if Eidolon is in play.
- For those wanting to play 4 EGR in the main, do you think you'll play less storm hate in the SB? Mindbreak Trap?
I'm not sure... I would think the opponent would focus more on removing Eidolon from play, unless we are doing more damage to ourselves.
I think the Devil is good regardless what others think. There isn't too many 4/3 creatures with 1cc, and it's drawback actually makes him a quick/unblockable ball lightning that doesn't cost you an attack step.
Usually, when the opponent is down to 10 life or less... The devil will become a creature, regardless what's in play.
Originally, I thought Skullcrack retired flame rift... but there are players that still think flame rift is better (because it swings for that 1 extra point.)
I do agree you cannot play Flame Rift with Eidolon of the Great Revel... I'm planning on dropping my Keldon Marauders for EGR. (therefore I'll be playing 3 in the main and one in the sideboard)
It's one of the reason why I like the devil...
This is interesting, I like to see how EGR plays first... but I think in the long run I'm looking at 3 new card slots
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
(EDIT: I should probably note that I am looking at this for a non-fetchland build, since that's what I play.)
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
No
It's worse than Ankh of Mishra, which no longer sees play
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
My friend Rob plays creature-based burn (ie; devil, guide, keldon/lava). I wanna say you DO play devil alongside Eidolon. My rationale from a non-burn player's perspective is because of its value. Eidolon is similar to Dark Confidant: if the opponent lets it sit on the table, you profit. Does it draw you more cards? No. However, you DO gain considerable advantage over x turns.
I think Devil plays well in conjunction with Eidolon (because now there's another threat that can quickly turn the tables against me). However, I can see the argument for running a spell in the Devil slot. Eidolon CAN hurt you, but leaving it out on the table is insane. Very few decks can deal with an early one. Blue decks durdle so much right now (cantrips/filter) -- I can easily see this guy pinging a few times before it is handled OR you place them at dangerously low life.
Eidolon may also bring back mox-based burn lists. You want to live the dream and muscle this guy out immediately. Yes, mox a horrible top deck later, but Eidolon changes burn's math/clock. We'll have to see how much damage Eidolon averages. It may be worth the risk mox brings to burn.
I go back and forth on this one. Eidolon deals zero damage when he comes out...but has potential to chip away very fast if he's not handled quickly by the opponent. Flame Rift is crazy efficient -- especially when you toss in a well timed Price of Progress.
Agreed. I finally acquired some the other week and pencil it in as a strong card to SB with. I think burn will certainly increase its % in the meta and LoS certainly makes sense for the opponent. Storm/combo also suffers against the card.
[/quote]
Pyrostatic Pillar effects don't auto-win against storm but they certainly make life harder. I'd opt to go with REB/Pyro instead of mindbreak. If you turn off their sculpting, that's huge. The anti-blue SB cards also have a wider array of applications. Mindbreak is exclusively for storm (and very very fringe for Elves which you should be beating anyways).
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Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
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Yeah, that's really dangerous! I personally was thinking about getting the 4 MD, but it would be really bad to get 2 eidolons in the initial hand or along the game (which is really possible to happen having 4 MD)
What's bad about pillar is that if you dont have a creature swinging every turn, you will deal almost the same ammount of damage that you take. I'm thinking about a new build (SB is irrelevant as its meta-oriented)
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
Burn Spells (30)
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Searing Blaze
20 Mountain
2 Relic of progenitus
2 Pyroclasm
3 Shattering spree
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Now thinking about SB Strategy. There are some cases where you run out of gas but you face decks that use to finish you off in 4/5 or even more turns (most fair decks). The thing about getting 20 lands is that you will have enough lands to throw all your burning spells and may win T3 or T4. When facing more grindy decks, wouldn't it be cool to side off 2 or 3 lands? I mean, you could still throw all your stuff until T4/5 if you get only 2 mana. For this kind of games (except for control decks) I think it would be nice to side off 2/3 lands and the sulfuric vortex (because of the lack of mana)
What do you guys think about it?
Searing blaze MD is about the fact that you can deal 3 damage to the opponent even if he hasn't a creature, by targeting him and then one creature of mine (that won't get damaged). That's really possible, right? I remember to have seen that discussion somewhere, but I dont know where anymore...
I know I've seen some variations, but I'm not sure if there is a current "best" set up for the fetchless build.
Some interesting ones from the SCG Open that Burn Top 8'd at
Any help is super appreciated! (:
I think lavamancer is not good enough without fetchlands, and I already think he's too situational and mana-dependant. If you run lavamancer you may not have mana enough to finish the game quickly and need to use a lot of spells before he start running. Without fetchlands he may only start burning at T3, which is too late IMO.
About Firedancer, I would play him against elves, or goblins. If he becomes a threat, other creature decks (except for tribals I think) would just get rid of him. If not, it would be a dead card. I mean, I don't see him being too useful in any situation. About elves decks, I play pyroclasm because it just wipes the board in T2 if needed. If you are on the draw, you may need to wipe the board on T2 because elves decks use to win T3 if not disrupted. If you play satyr, you will start killing creatures only on T3, and at a one-creature per burn rate
Young pyromancer could be cool against grindy decks. I would keep it on the sideboard, but its a cool option IMO, and very effective against some decks. But I think he would just be the primary target, at least I would make him the main target if I was on the other side. I mean, its the same problem as satyr, but pyromancer's effect is really greater against grindy decks IMO (also it isnt reactive, which means that it doesn't matter if the enemy has creatures on the field, he just does what he does anyway).
Vexing Devil is cool but I dont really like creatures that dont have a really great effect against other decks, or creatures that are good topdecks (I.E. creatures with haste). The best case scenario is hitting for four, it is great when happens but its not a good topdeck, which for me is really something that the possibility of hitting for 4 dmg doesn't compensate
I think Hellspark Elemental is great, because it hits 2 times, and when its in the graveyard it puts some pressure in the enemy. I mean, besides StP, noone ever sides in GY hate against burn decks, which usually makes you use him to full potential. It's mana-expensive but it really gives you a lot of gas if you need, hitting twice for 3 dmg
Keldon Marauders I just dont know... I really just dont like him. Too slow for the second damage trigger, maybe? I mean, if the enemy has a goyf or some token or some lightweight elf on the battlefield, he just doesnt connect. If it had trample it would be really good. The fact that the opponent has 1 turn to prepare for the connection really sucks, the fact that he doesn't have haste (which I think its great, because if he had he would be quite overpowered). The possibility of dealing 5 damage is only 2 turns after you cast him. If you play him on T2 it hits the 5 damage only at T4
I mean, I think it could run something like 2 volcanic island MB (using fetchlands and mountain) for 4 Delver on the main (no doubt about it), and something like 1 island and 14 blue cards for the splash on the side. It could be a counter-oriented SB, with something like 4 FoW, 4 Daze, 2 flusterstorm, 4 Brainstorm and 1 island
I haven't thought really through this idea, just throwing it for you guys to think about it
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4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
2 Young Pyromancer
This is what I'm thinking I would run, creature-wise. I added the 2 Young Pyromancer in as the upside for them is just so awesome, but I don't really want to see too many of them in a game.
I'm just nervous about such a low creature count, but I'll get used to that since the spells are all so good, and basically the same "one mana three damage".
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Could you possibly post your list?
Is there significant enough difference in opponent sideboard that they'd be left with dead cards if you went from a purely burn to creature heavy? Seems like if it matters it'd be enough to get me a sort-of cheap win.
What typically beats burn? Seems like combo and reanimating It That Betrays turn one would be my threats.
I don't think going into a Sligh style transformation sideboard would be a good plan. Your opponent may or may not have blanks against you, and likely may not take out all their creature removal, as they assume most Burn decks run Goblin Guide and another creature at least. Take a look at the sideboard choices in the Primer. You'll see what kind of things Burn prepares itself for. Leyline of Sanctity, countermagic, Counterbalance, Trinisphere and other artifacts, Lifegain with Batterskull, etc. There are a lot of things Burn fears, but very few it can't prepare for in some way.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Combos are the worse matches for burn IMO
I prepare against Elves and aggro decks with Ensnaring Bridge. Here you will have to spend about 100 bucks for a set, but its essential for fightning creature decks. I mean, if they dont blow it up its probably a free win
Eidolon of Great Revel I haven't tested yet, but seems like a good SB against combo, elves included. I personally run 2 main and 2 SB (again, I haven't tested it yet).
Shattering spree is an "uncounterable" artifact destroyer, I think it's ensurance is better than smash to smithereens' 3 extra damage, since it's biggest problem about artifact are batterskull and jitte. If they hit the board and connect once, the game is over for you
Leyline isn't really used in my meta, so I dont prepare myself against it. There are some ways out of it, like a more control game and indirect burn (price of progress, among others I guess), also burning all their creatures away while you hit them with creatures and indirect burn.