The list seems good overall. I have not tryed liliana in Maverick, so I don't know how good she is. I would probably run 1 more black source if i was you because of the BB casting cost on liliana. Probably cut one of the lands that don't produce mana for it (maze most likely). in the sideboard, deluge and golgari charm kills your own things, so I would not recommend those cards. instead, zealous persecution will probably do what yo want to do without killing our own stuff. Aside from that, this doesn't look bad. Maybe I would move the life from the loam in maindeck if you are looking to play liliana, they combo very well together.
Thank you for the input. First I would like to say that Liliana has been surprisingly good, Ive never really had a problem casting her, as it only takes one black source and deathrite, but I could definitely see cutting the maze for another black source. On the golgari charms and deluge, although zp doesnt kill my own guys, I think the other two modes on charm are quite relevant, being able to regen through verdict or to have extra answers to random sneak attacks or moats or whatever is clutch. Deluge though, I actually havent played any games with it so I have no idea how bad it is, my thought for it was your own knights are probably huge so kill everything else and beat face with her, but that could easily go back to being a zp. I like loam enough to move it main, but I have zero idea what to cut for it. Any suggestions?
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Hey guys! Been busy with school and a new job, but i thought that I'd bring in my report from SCG Columbus.
Had a bit of a rough day, just getting too much mana, or just not drawing that one land 3 games in a row.
However when the deck did run Idealistically i managed to smash some face.
With 3 of us running identical lists We only managed to get places 67th,100th,and 130th
out of a 450 man event. My unfortunate run in came with a match one of Tin Fins. Brutal game and i had no idea what was going on. However, the "Fair Decks" i managed to run the game.
I did however get to play "True-Blade" three times in a row and even though i was heavily mana boned all three games, i feel we still have a strong matchup.
On to the better part! As you've all seen in BotG we will have a new card "Spirit of the Labyrinth" or SoL. I, along with my group, feel that this card could be our punishing blow to the blue decks and griselbrand draw decks. So we are all nit picking the list but the general consensus of what the list will be like is as follows.
Now some of you may question why Fire and Ice? Well even with SoL on the field pinging things for 2 is just extra.
Now the big question is why War and Peace? I mean its the worst sword right? ..right?
Well yes and no. The reason I have selected it for this list is for the fact of SoL and a Mainboard Life from the loam. Idealistically it would work like this:
SoL is going to force our opponents to hold cards and we get in for the extra damage. With loam in the yard we can keep filling our hands to get bonus from War and peace and just Stabilize our life.
@Unrealz:
Sorry to hear you didn't crush SCG Columbus. I've done well against Tin Fins and Reanimator (as I find them to be very similar for us to face). Experience and properly identifying decks is paramount -- and trust me, I've punted games as early as GSZ turn 2 for what would have been the win had I placed the opponent on the correct deck.
Spirit is interesting. I love its design. It will see legacy play in some way/shape/form. However, its inclusion comes at the expense of a precious slot.
Being honest, I'm not the best Maverick player. I make my mistakes and have more fun playing magic in general than grind/desire the win. I peg 50% of my Maverick wins stemming from my ability to see lines of play others do not. You know -- that feeling you get when you flash in Scryb Ranger, bounce a land, uptap your Thalia or KotR and suddenly have blockers to ruin the math for your opponent. That is one of the strengths of Maverick as a deck. I almost always feel I have a line others didn't think about or see deep enough.
Now I bring this up because I've been thinking about Spirit's inclusion. Spirit is very 1-dimensional. It doesn't do anything beyond what's printed on the card. It simplifies lines of play. It's a DAMN GOOD effect given the current metagame, but I feel the slots you need to put this lady in come at the expense of cards that create complex lines your opponent isn't familiar with. I'm yet to crack a list myself. I DO understand there's a constant see-saw of balancing white vs green, dorks vs bombs, and complexity vs simplicity.
Perhaps this is the time to really look at going back to Green and Taxes. The green level in Unrealz's list exemplifies this. There's a handful of green creatures. The rest are all white. Something needs to be made of that.
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10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Hey guys, so I've been getting into legacy with Maverick. I've been doing decently online with it, and hit/miss irl. I went 3-0-1 (drew in last round for prize) my first time out, beating Jund, Sneak and Show, RUG Delver, and drawing with BUG delver. I was pretty happy with that, considering it was my first time playing paper legacy. It was even cooler, because two of the people I played against, Adam Fronsee (Sneak and Show) and John Wiley (BUG Delver) proceded to top 8 at SCG columbus. Next week I went 0-3, although at least 1 match I lost by playing really badly. I played against UR delver, UWR delver, and sneak and show that week, and I should have beaten the UWR deck, and only possibly punted against sneak.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the mainboard, although both Thrun and Elspeth are there partly because I just love both of those cards, and where else do I get to play them if not Maverick in Legacy? Realistically though, they probably should be something else. I suspect that when Spirit of the Labyrinth is available, both will get the axe along with library. Still, any suggestions on the overall deck list would be welcome.
As evidenced in the reports from my results, there is a ton of delver at my lgs. The second week I was there, along with the two I lost to, there was also 3 BUG delvers there. Is there any tech, SB or main for so much delver?
I'm also pretty iffy on how to sideboard. I generally reccognize what cards I want to bring in in matchups, but I have troubles finding things to cut. What should I be taking out for the non-obvious matchups? Usually Teeg and Elspeth are the first things I reach for, but after that I'm not so sure. Also, should I be boarding in Thoughtsiezes for non-combo matchups?
Now some of you may question why Fire and Ice? Well even with SoL on the field pinging things for 2 is just extra.
Now the big question is why War and Peace? I mean its the worst sword right? ..right?
Well yes and no. The reason I have selected it for this list is for the fact of SoL and a Mainboard Life from the loam. Idealistically it would work like this:
SoL is going to force our opponents to hold cards and we get in for the extra damage. With loam in the yard we can keep filling our hands to get bonus from War and peace and just Stabilize our life.
i wanted to comment on the sword of war and peace, and say that I would never laugh at someone running that sword over others, and that this sword is very underrated. In fact, back when I was playing esperblade religiously 1 year ago now, war and peace was the sword I would play over feast and famine, simply because pro red meant protection from goblins/protection from rug delver removal and pro white = protection from plowshares/lingering souls can't block you and entreats the angels token can't block either. In bonus, the sword was actually very decent in combo matchups, as the sword generally lowers clock better than it seems. The problem with that sword tho is that it has 0 impact on board when it connects, only affecting life totals, so it doesn't generate card advantage, and that sometimes bites you.
Anyways, if you guys have a lot of miracles in your meta and are looking for a pretty quick way to kill with an equipment, sword isn't a bad one to test.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Thank you for the input. First I would like to say that Liliana has been surprisingly good, Ive never really had a problem casting her, as it only takes one black source and deathrite, but I could definitely see cutting the maze for another black source. On the golgari charms and deluge, although zp doesnt kill my own guys, I think the other two modes on charm are quite relevant, being able to regen through verdict or to have extra answers to random sneak attacks or moats or whatever is clutch. Deluge though, I actually havent played any games with it so I have no idea how bad it is, my thought for it was your own knights are probably huge so kill everything else and beat face with her, but that could easily go back to being a zp. I like loam enough to move it main, but I have zero idea what to cut for it. Any suggestions?
Sorry for missing your reply. For golgari charms, i can buy that. the regeneration clause is a bit worse nowadays tho, with everyone and their mothers playing -x/-x effects to kill TTN. and it also opens you to get blown out by having a -1/-1 cast against you in response to your own golgari charm, effectively killing your deathrites (for instance, i know BBD and CVM decided to run marsh casualties in their bug deck a few weeks ago instead of golgari charms exactly for this reason). However, anti enchantment is useful. for the loam to maindeck cut, I would probably move a ooze to the sideboard. it's always a good creature, but you do have 4 deathrites for grave hate along with a searchable ooze already. So in your build, I would probably evaluate the maindeck loam as a bit better than the second ooze maindeck, and move the ooze in the sideboard spot. loam with liliana is just that good IMO.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Sorry for missing your reply. For golgari charms, i can buy that. the regeneration clause is a bit worse nowadays tho, with everyone and their mothers playing -x/-x effects to kill TTN. and it also opens you to get blown out by having a -1/-1 cast against you in response to your own golgari charm, effectively killing your deathrites (for instance, i know BBD and CVM decided to run marsh casualties in their bug deck a few weeks ago instead of golgari charms exactly for this reason). However, anti enchantment is useful. for the loam to maindeck cut, I would probably move a ooze to the sideboard. it's always a good creature, but you do have 4 deathrites for grave hate along with a searchable ooze already. So in your build, I would probably evaluate the maindeck loam as a bit better than the second ooze maindeck, and move the ooze in the sideboard spot. loam with liliana is just that good IMO.
Thanks man, ill try moving the ooze to the board for loam, and see how that does tomorrow. I agree, that the second ooze is rarely needed, since I have all the shamans. As for the charms we'll just see how they do tomorrow, and if they are bad ill probably end up cutting them.
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Thanks man, ill try moving the ooze to the board for loam, and see how that does tomorrow. I agree, that the second ooze is rarely needed, since I have all the shamans. As for the charms we'll just see how they do tomorrow, and if they are bad ill probably end up cutting them.
Good luck and keep us updated! I like the direction your build is taking, so I am interested in seeing how it goes with the cards that I did not test myself. Especially Liliana that i might try to find place for in my own build.
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Just made top 8 in one of my local Legacy tournament with my "Darker Maverick" list. There were 63 players. I will update later with a more detailed report.
But for now, I go to sleep. Good night fellow fighters!
A new style we are testing is
-3x Stoneforge
-1x Sylvan Library
-1x Fire and ice
-1xLight and Shadow
+3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
+2x Aven Mindcensor
+1x Umezawa's Jitte
So far it is actually pretty tight. Destroyed blue decks. Mindcensor kinda just wins the stoneforge matchup.
Just curious, what is your entire 75? Not holding you to anything I need help seeing how you're setting up G2/3 and the flex slots. I'm assuming you cut Sylvan entirely and are running the 2x Jitte package because you're lacking SFM. I like that anti-blue setup a lot.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Just curious, what is your entire 75? Not holding you to anything I need help seeing how you're setting up G2/3 and the flex slots. I'm assuming you cut Sylvan entirely and are running the 2x Jitte package because you're lacking SFM. I like that anti-blue setup a lot.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
@Unrealz: That looks interesting. How has it been playing for you?
She handles quite well. With the changes pros and cons are as such;
Pros:
Shut down blue.
Decks that are based around draw engines are well hurt.
Literally win the game over top.
Mindcensor usually beats SFM and decks that abuse Fetch lands.
More reliable creature draw.
Spirit is a huge threat.
Depths is always a backup wincon.
W-LL is amazing against hand hate.
Cons:
Have to natural in to a Jitte (not a big issue).
T2 SFM kinda hurts.
Lack of Swords is missed, but not essential.
Bonus:
Decks that run TNN cant draw in to him with SoL.
If TNN is on the board, are dudes are just bigger.
And that's about it haha. If anything i'd try to find room for a sword, but it's really not essential anymore.
Been testing pure GW with Spirit to unimpressive results. I tried many combinations of packages and will continue to fool around with lists.
Notes from limited testing (faced a lot of SFM-based decks):
1. Spirit gets a big fat target on its head from most players. Wx decks will STP her into oblivion because of the effect. I read several different forums discussing her inclusion in Maverick. I like the concept of SFM/Thalia/Spirit but can't help but think I'm missing something. I am VERY tempted to run Thalia in the board to have some massive anti-combo game 2 and 3. My "fair deck" and "fair board position" situations sucked when I had a combination of Thalia/Spirit in my hand. I am not slowing down fair decks fast enough (if at all). Thalia is outclassed in combat and doesn't race well. Spirit appears to be a better option as a 4x because it isn't legendary (thus glut-spirit hands are still playable).
2. SFM works well with Spirit
3. QPM is insane with SFM decks rampant
4. I'm sooooo reliant upon GSZ. Vial had its merits. I loved wayfarer shenanigans but I really feel those mid game GSZ topdecks put me over the top. Mid game Vial sucks so much lol.
5. I DIDN'T test Punishing Maverick...which may be the secret recipe. Often I was running out of steam with GW. Punishing Fires could be a way to eat these annoying x/1 and x/2 durdles while swinging in with a team.
6. I need Mirran Crusader in some way/shape/form. Ran Aven Mindcensor for a while and opponents are able to play around it often. Mirran simply dodges all removal not named STP/PTE.
**
More than anything, I want to break open Spirit in Maverick. Although Mav can't draw additional cards per turn, generating value turn-over-turn (see: Punishing Fire) or CA (see: SFM) helped me stay in the game. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run out constant CA effects.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Been testing pure GW with Spirit to unimpressive results. I tried many combinations of packages and will continue to fool around with lists.
Notes from limited testing (faced a lot of SFM-based decks):
1. Spirit gets a big fat target on its head from most players. Wx decks will STP her into oblivion because of the effect. I read several different forums discussing her inclusion in Maverick. I like the concept of SFM/Thalia/Spirit but can't help but think I'm missing something. I am VERY tempted to run Thalia in the board to have some massive anti-combo game 2 and 3. My "fair deck" and "fair board position" situations sucked when I had a combination of Thalia/Spirit in my hand. I am not slowing down fair decks fast enough (if at all). Thalia is outclassed in combat and doesn't race well. Spirit appears to be a better option as a 4x because it isn't legendary (thus glut-spirit hands are still playable).
2. SFM works well with Spirit
3. QPM is insane with SFM decks rampant
4. I'm sooooo reliant upon GSZ. Vial had its merits. I loved wayfarer shenanigans but I really feel those mid game GSZ topdecks put me over the top. Mid game Vial sucks so much lol.
5. I DIDN'T test Punishing Maverick...which may be the secret recipe. Often I was running out of steam with GW. Punishing Fires could be a way to eat these annoying x/1 and x/2 durdles while swinging in with a team.
6. I need Mirran Crusader in some way/shape/form. Ran Aven Mindcensor for a while and opponents are able to play around it often. Mirran simply dodges all removal not named STP/PTE.
**
More than anything, I want to break open Spirit in Maverick. Although Mav can't draw additional cards per turn, generating value turn-over-turn (see: Punishing Fire) or CA (see: SFM) helped me stay in the game. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run out constant CA effects.
Then, the way I see it is that you probably want to run the punishing fires package, along with the stoneforge package, or maybe up the sylvan library count to at least 2 in order to get more cards in your hands. However, is your problem really due to the addition of the Spirit? Because it seems to me that it's more the general creature deck problem, where the board doesn't seem impressive enough. doesn't happen often, but it does happen sometimes I guess. Green sun is good at solving that problem tho. Either that, or the spirit is overated for what it really does in a game. I have not had the chance the test it yet, but it might very well be the case. That she just doesn't do enough. What did you cut for it? Would having those cards instead make it better for you?
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Then, the way I see it is that you probably want to run the punishing fires package, along with the stoneforge package, or maybe up the sylvan library count to at least 2 in order to get more cards in your hands. However, is your problem really due to the addition of the Spirit? Because it seems to me that it's more the general creature deck problem, where the board doesn't seem impressive enough. doesn't happen often, but it does happen sometimes I guess. Green sun is good at solving that problem tho. Either that, or the spirit is overated for what it really does in a game. I have not had the chance the test it yet, but it might very well be the case. That she just doesn't do enough. What did you cut for it? Would having those cards instead make it better for you?
Idk. I just played a few games with Spirit instead of Thalia and it appeared smoother than normal. I had space to run 2x Mirran and 1x Elspeth amongst things. Spirit is better in the MD in a blind meta because she doesn't interfere with GSZ costs and hurts many of the same cards. At worst, she's a 3/1 for 1W. Still not happy with the mix but perhaps I was pushing too "small" during yesterday's testing.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
In my limited testing with spirit so far, it rarely actually gets to live in the delver matchups. Just like Mom is almost an instant kill, so is spirit. When I've been playing against the combo decks, I haven't been seeing it, despite playing 3 in my current build. It warrants more testing, but I have a suspicion that spirit is significantly better in builds with vial/DnT. Spirit seems like it wants to be a more reactive play, vs. Thalia + wasteland being more proactive. Spirit punishes mediocre-bad hands, but Thalia is good against almost all of their hands, and both die to the same removal.
It is nice that spirit doesn't punish our own spells, however. I also had the spirit be very relevant against griselbrand once, which was awsome. It was really sweet after being frustrated in the past by griselbrand drawing a bunch of cards in response to hate/removal and then just going off again.
Interesting analysis. Yea I would agree Thalia is more aggressive but sometimes she hurts you as well. Nothing feels better than Thalia + Wasteland but Spirit en mass is equally strong. Ran out 3 against miracles, which couldn't deal w 2 on the table at a time. She turns off half that deck lol
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Been testing pure GW with Spirit to unimpressive results. I tried many combinations of packages and will continue to fool around with lists.
Notes from limited testing (faced a lot of SFM-based decks):
1. Spirit gets a big fat target on its head from most players. Wx decks will STP her into oblivion because of the effect. I read several different forums discussing her inclusion in Maverick. I like the concept of SFM/Thalia/Spirit but can't help but think I'm missing something. I am VERY tempted to run Thalia in the board to have some massive anti-combo game 2 and 3. My "fair deck" and "fair board position" situations sucked when I had a combination of Thalia/Spirit in my hand. I am not slowing down fair decks fast enough (if at all). Thalia is outclassed in combat and doesn't race well. Spirit appears to be a better option as a 4x because it isn't legendary (thus glut-spirit hands are still playable).
2. SFM works well with Spirit
3. QPM is insane with SFM decks rampant
4. I'm sooooo reliant upon GSZ. Vial had its merits. I loved wayfarer shenanigans but I really feel those mid game GSZ topdecks put me over the top. Mid game Vial sucks so much lol.
5. I DIDN'T test Punishing Maverick...which may be the secret recipe. Often I was running out of steam with GW. Punishing Fires could be a way to eat these annoying x/1 and x/2 durdles while swinging in with a team.
6. I need Mirran Crusader in some way/shape/form. Ran Aven Mindcensor for a while and opponents are able to play around it often. Mirran simply dodges all removal not named STP/PTE.
**
More than anything, I want to break open Spirit in Maverick. Although Mav can't draw additional cards per turn, generating value turn-over-turn (see: Punishing Fire) or CA (see: SFM) helped me stay in the game. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run out constant CA effects.
It's been at least some time since I've played Maverick mind you, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
It would seem to me that if you do replace Thalia with Spirit then it would be best to take advantage of cards that you are otherwise unable to really play because of Thalia - mainly spells that become simply too intensive to play with her on board.
Something I do remember noting the last time I tried Maverick out was that Thalia made your deck kind of clunky, but was typically worse for your opponent; add on her strength vs combo decks and it became worth it to make concessions to Thalia.
If you play Spirit in her place then it just seems natural to me to push the deck towards a direction that Thalia prevented. Otherwise, it seems like Thalia would just be better considering the deck as it stands right now is already making concessions to her.
So you already pointed out Punishing Fire, and I like that. Thalia makes repetitive use of Punishing Fire just incredibly sluggish. On a similar end to that, what about one or two Loams? Loam strikes me as another card that would be clunky with your own Thalias, but provide an excellent way to gain incremental card advantage without actually drawing cards making it match up well with Spirit. Paired alongside Punishing Fire gives you an excellent way to protect your own Groves; one thing I've always hated about Punishing Fire is the need to run so many Groves and the combination of KotR and Loam lets you skimp on them to some degree which I love. Also allows you to completely Wastelock, and another thing I like about Loams of your own is that they protect against Loam decks which are as popular now as they've ever been it seems. I also find it pretty cute that Spirit doesn't stop you from activating Horizon Canopy on your opponent's turn which seems like a good albeit mana intensive way to turn Loam into more than just lands in games that stall out.
Would it be going too deep to move in on StageDepths from that point? It's synergy with both KotR and Loam is pretty obvious though that's more colorless lands that you can naturally draw... hmm.
I almost have to wonder what in particular Thalia is more effective against then a combination of say, Spirit and Canonist and running some number of Enlightened Tutor to find whichever you need.
It just trikes me that Thalia's application in problem matchups shares a lot of overlap with other options. She all but prevents Storm from winning until dealt with but the same can be said of Canonist.
Thalia is obviously less effective against Show and Tell decks or Reanimator, where she serves to slow them down, hopefully buying time for other disruption. On her own Thalia is easy to win through. Spirit hits many of the same cards in these matchups as Thalia (on top of stopping Griselbrand from drawing cards), but similar to Thalia won't be enough to stop them completely. They won't have access to Brainstorm, other cantrips become far less effective but can at least filter cards still. Point being, they'll eventually be able to draw out of Spirit alone and still win similar to Thalia but they're slowed down significantly giving you a lot of time to find another piece of hate.
Maybe that's just crazy talk, I'm not sure and I haven't played it... but that's just my preliminary thoughts when thinking about Spirit's applications.
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Thank you for the input. First I would like to say that Liliana has been surprisingly good, Ive never really had a problem casting her, as it only takes one black source and deathrite, but I could definitely see cutting the maze for another black source. On the golgari charms and deluge, although zp doesnt kill my own guys, I think the other two modes on charm are quite relevant, being able to regen through verdict or to have extra answers to random sneak attacks or moats or whatever is clutch. Deluge though, I actually havent played any games with it so I have no idea how bad it is, my thought for it was your own knights are probably huge so kill everything else and beat face with her, but that could easily go back to being a zp. I like loam enough to move it main, but I have zero idea what to cut for it. Any suggestions?
-Niv-Mizzet
Had a bit of a rough day, just getting too much mana, or just not drawing that one land 3 games in a row.
However when the deck did run Idealistically i managed to smash some face.
With 3 of us running identical lists We only managed to get places 67th,100th,and 130th
out of a 450 man event. My unfortunate run in came with a match one of Tin Fins. Brutal game and i had no idea what was going on. However, the "Fair Decks" i managed to run the game.
I did however get to play "True-Blade" three times in a row and even though i was heavily mana boned all three games, i feel we still have a strong matchup.
On to the better part! As you've all seen in BotG we will have a new card "Spirit of the Labyrinth" or SoL. I, along with my group, feel that this card could be our punishing blow to the blue decks and griselbrand draw decks. So we are all nit picking the list but the general consensus of what the list will be like is as follows.
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
Spells 9
4 Green Sun Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow or War and Peace
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands 22
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespians Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Oblivion Ring
Now some of you may question why Fire and Ice? Well even with SoL on the field pinging things for 2 is just extra.
Now the big question is why War and Peace? I mean its the worst sword right? ..right?
Well yes and no. The reason I have selected it for this list is for the fact of SoL and a Mainboard Life from the loam. Idealistically it would work like this:
SoL is going to force our opponents to hold cards and we get in for the extra damage. With loam in the yard we can keep filling our hands to get bonus from War and peace and just Stabilize our life.
Opinions are welcome and thanks for reading!
Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
Sorry to hear you didn't crush SCG Columbus. I've done well against Tin Fins and Reanimator (as I find them to be very similar for us to face). Experience and properly identifying decks is paramount -- and trust me, I've punted games as early as GSZ turn 2 for what would have been the win had I placed the opponent on the correct deck.
Spirit is interesting. I love its design. It will see legacy play in some way/shape/form. However, its inclusion comes at the expense of a precious slot.
Being honest, I'm not the best Maverick player. I make my mistakes and have more fun playing magic in general than grind/desire the win. I peg 50% of my Maverick wins stemming from my ability to see lines of play others do not. You know -- that feeling you get when you flash in Scryb Ranger, bounce a land, uptap your Thalia or KotR and suddenly have blockers to ruin the math for your opponent. That is one of the strengths of Maverick as a deck. I almost always feel I have a line others didn't think about or see deep enough.
Now I bring this up because I've been thinking about Spirit's inclusion. Spirit is very 1-dimensional. It doesn't do anything beyond what's printed on the card. It simplifies lines of play. It's a DAMN GOOD effect given the current metagame, but I feel the slots you need to put this lady in come at the expense of cards that create complex lines your opponent isn't familiar with. I'm yet to crack a list myself. I DO understand there's a constant see-saw of balancing white vs green, dorks vs bombs, and complexity vs simplicity.
Perhaps this is the time to really look at going back to Green and Taxes. The green level in Unrealz's list exemplifies this. There's a handful of green creatures. The rest are all white. Something needs to be made of that.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Here's my current list:
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands
2 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
Overall I'm pretty happy with the mainboard, although both Thrun and Elspeth are there partly because I just love both of those cards, and where else do I get to play them if not Maverick in Legacy? Realistically though, they probably should be something else. I suspect that when Spirit of the Labyrinth is available, both will get the axe along with library. Still, any suggestions on the overall deck list would be welcome.
As evidenced in the reports from my results, there is a ton of delver at my lgs. The second week I was there, along with the two I lost to, there was also 3 BUG delvers there. Is there any tech, SB or main for so much delver?
I'm also pretty iffy on how to sideboard. I generally reccognize what cards I want to bring in in matchups, but I have troubles finding things to cut. What should I be taking out for the non-obvious matchups? Usually Teeg and Elspeth are the first things I reach for, but after that I'm not so sure. Also, should I be boarding in Thoughtsiezes for non-combo matchups?
i wanted to comment on the sword of war and peace, and say that I would never laugh at someone running that sword over others, and that this sword is very underrated. In fact, back when I was playing esperblade religiously 1 year ago now, war and peace was the sword I would play over feast and famine, simply because pro red meant protection from goblins/protection from rug delver removal and pro white = protection from plowshares/lingering souls can't block you and entreats the angels token can't block either. In bonus, the sword was actually very decent in combo matchups, as the sword generally lowers clock better than it seems. The problem with that sword tho is that it has 0 impact on board when it connects, only affecting life totals, so it doesn't generate card advantage, and that sometimes bites you.
Anyways, if you guys have a lot of miracles in your meta and are looking for a pretty quick way to kill with an equipment, sword isn't a bad one to test.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
-3x Stoneforge
-1x Sylvan Library
-1x Fire and ice
-1xLight and Shadow
+3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
+2x Aven Mindcensor
+1x Umezawa's Jitte
So far it is actually pretty tight. Destroyed blue decks. Mindcensor kinda just wins the stoneforge matchup.
Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
Sorry for missing your reply. For golgari charms, i can buy that. the regeneration clause is a bit worse nowadays tho, with everyone and their mothers playing -x/-x effects to kill TTN. and it also opens you to get blown out by having a -1/-1 cast against you in response to your own golgari charm, effectively killing your deathrites (for instance, i know BBD and CVM decided to run marsh casualties in their bug deck a few weeks ago instead of golgari charms exactly for this reason). However, anti enchantment is useful. for the loam to maindeck cut, I would probably move a ooze to the sideboard. it's always a good creature, but you do have 4 deathrites for grave hate along with a searchable ooze already. So in your build, I would probably evaluate the maindeck loam as a bit better than the second ooze maindeck, and move the ooze in the sideboard spot. loam with liliana is just that good IMO.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Thanks man, ill try moving the ooze to the board for loam, and see how that does tomorrow. I agree, that the second ooze is rarely needed, since I have all the shamans. As for the charms we'll just see how they do tomorrow, and if they are bad ill probably end up cutting them.
-Niv-Mizzet
Good luck and keep us updated! I like the direction your build is taking, so I am interested in seeing how it goes with the cards that I did not test myself. Especially Liliana that i might try to find place for in my own build.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
But for now, I go to sleep. Good night fellow fighters!
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Just curious, what is your entire 75? Not holding you to anything I need help seeing how you're setting up G2/3 and the flex slots. I'm assuming you cut Sylvan entirely and are running the 2x Jitte package because you're lacking SFM. I like that anti-blue setup a lot.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
Spells 8
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands 23
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1x Gaea's Cradle
1 Thespians Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Oblivion Ring
Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
She handles quite well. With the changes pros and cons are as such;
Pros:
Shut down blue.
Decks that are based around draw engines are well hurt.
Literally win the game over top.
Mindcensor usually beats SFM and decks that abuse Fetch lands.
More reliable creature draw.
Spirit is a huge threat.
Depths is always a backup wincon.
W-LL is amazing against hand hate.
Cons:
Have to natural in to a Jitte (not a big issue).
T2 SFM kinda hurts.
Lack of Swords is missed, but not essential.
Bonus:
Decks that run TNN cant draw in to him with SoL.
If TNN is on the board, are dudes are just bigger.
And that's about it haha. If anything i'd try to find room for a sword, but it's really not essential anymore.
Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
Notes from limited testing (faced a lot of SFM-based decks):
1. Spirit gets a big fat target on its head from most players. Wx decks will STP her into oblivion because of the effect. I read several different forums discussing her inclusion in Maverick. I like the concept of SFM/Thalia/Spirit but can't help but think I'm missing something. I am VERY tempted to run Thalia in the board to have some massive anti-combo game 2 and 3. My "fair deck" and "fair board position" situations sucked when I had a combination of Thalia/Spirit in my hand. I am not slowing down fair decks fast enough (if at all). Thalia is outclassed in combat and doesn't race well. Spirit appears to be a better option as a 4x because it isn't legendary (thus glut-spirit hands are still playable).
2. SFM works well with Spirit
3. QPM is insane with SFM decks rampant
4. I'm sooooo reliant upon GSZ. Vial had its merits. I loved wayfarer shenanigans but I really feel those mid game GSZ topdecks put me over the top. Mid game Vial sucks so much lol.
5. I DIDN'T test Punishing Maverick...which may be the secret recipe. Often I was running out of steam with GW. Punishing Fires could be a way to eat these annoying x/1 and x/2 durdles while swinging in with a team.
6. I need Mirran Crusader in some way/shape/form. Ran Aven Mindcensor for a while and opponents are able to play around it often. Mirran simply dodges all removal not named STP/PTE.
**
More than anything, I want to break open Spirit in Maverick. Although Mav can't draw additional cards per turn, generating value turn-over-turn (see: Punishing Fire) or CA (see: SFM) helped me stay in the game. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run out constant CA effects.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Then, the way I see it is that you probably want to run the punishing fires package, along with the stoneforge package, or maybe up the sylvan library count to at least 2 in order to get more cards in your hands. However, is your problem really due to the addition of the Spirit? Because it seems to me that it's more the general creature deck problem, where the board doesn't seem impressive enough. doesn't happen often, but it does happen sometimes I guess. Green sun is good at solving that problem tho. Either that, or the spirit is overated for what it really does in a game. I have not had the chance the test it yet, but it might very well be the case. That she just doesn't do enough. What did you cut for it? Would having those cards instead make it better for you?
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Idk. I just played a few games with Spirit instead of Thalia and it appeared smoother than normal. I had space to run 2x Mirran and 1x Elspeth amongst things. Spirit is better in the MD in a blind meta because she doesn't interfere with GSZ costs and hurts many of the same cards. At worst, she's a 3/1 for 1W. Still not happy with the mix but perhaps I was pushing too "small" during yesterday's testing.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
It is nice that spirit doesn't punish our own spells, however. I also had the spirit be very relevant against griselbrand once, which was awsome. It was really sweet after being frustrated in the past by griselbrand drawing a bunch of cards in response to hate/removal and then just going off again.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
It's been at least some time since I've played Maverick mind you, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
It would seem to me that if you do replace Thalia with Spirit then it would be best to take advantage of cards that you are otherwise unable to really play because of Thalia - mainly spells that become simply too intensive to play with her on board.
Something I do remember noting the last time I tried Maverick out was that Thalia made your deck kind of clunky, but was typically worse for your opponent; add on her strength vs combo decks and it became worth it to make concessions to Thalia.
If you play Spirit in her place then it just seems natural to me to push the deck towards a direction that Thalia prevented. Otherwise, it seems like Thalia would just be better considering the deck as it stands right now is already making concessions to her.
So you already pointed out Punishing Fire, and I like that. Thalia makes repetitive use of Punishing Fire just incredibly sluggish. On a similar end to that, what about one or two Loams? Loam strikes me as another card that would be clunky with your own Thalias, but provide an excellent way to gain incremental card advantage without actually drawing cards making it match up well with Spirit. Paired alongside Punishing Fire gives you an excellent way to protect your own Groves; one thing I've always hated about Punishing Fire is the need to run so many Groves and the combination of KotR and Loam lets you skimp on them to some degree which I love. Also allows you to completely Wastelock, and another thing I like about Loams of your own is that they protect against Loam decks which are as popular now as they've ever been it seems. I also find it pretty cute that Spirit doesn't stop you from activating Horizon Canopy on your opponent's turn which seems like a good albeit mana intensive way to turn Loam into more than just lands in games that stall out.
Would it be going too deep to move in on StageDepths from that point? It's synergy with both KotR and Loam is pretty obvious though that's more colorless lands that you can naturally draw... hmm.
I almost have to wonder what in particular Thalia is more effective against then a combination of say, Spirit and Canonist and running some number of Enlightened Tutor to find whichever you need.
It just trikes me that Thalia's application in problem matchups shares a lot of overlap with other options. She all but prevents Storm from winning until dealt with but the same can be said of Canonist.
Thalia is obviously less effective against Show and Tell decks or Reanimator, where she serves to slow them down, hopefully buying time for other disruption. On her own Thalia is easy to win through. Spirit hits many of the same cards in these matchups as Thalia (on top of stopping Griselbrand from drawing cards), but similar to Thalia won't be enough to stop them completely. They won't have access to Brainstorm, other cantrips become far less effective but can at least filter cards still. Point being, they'll eventually be able to draw out of Spirit alone and still win similar to Thalia but they're slowed down significantly giving you a lot of time to find another piece of hate.
Maybe that's just crazy talk, I'm not sure and I haven't played it... but that's just my preliminary thoughts when thinking about Spirit's applications.