You can't disagree with a bunch of factual observations; and I also missed that this guy doesn't do tons if they have an active Skull either.
You said the same thing I said (in so many words): you have to be ahead to get use out of him. I think he's a good card; but you'll be hard pressed to find games where he is impressive where another three drop wouldn't be. You'll probably find many games where you wish it were a Liliana, KotR, Thrun, Sigarda, or just about anything else.
To counterpoint on the Devotion bit; he's BW; Maverick would have to change substantially for you to not already have won at a 3-drop + 3-5 other creatures. (There is not a single WB, BB, or WW permanent in mav. unless you run Lily.) You have to be so far ahead in this build to attack with him it's beyond reasonable consideration.
Eidolon of Rhetoric 2w
Enchantment Creature - Spirit
Each player can't cast more than one spell each turn.
1/4
So rule of law, but straped on a creature.
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
You can't disagree with a bunch of factual observations; and I also missed that this guy doesn't do tons if they have an active Skull either.
You said the same thing I said (in so many words): you have to be ahead to get use out of him. I think he's a good card; but you'll be hard pressed to find games where he is impressive where another three drop wouldn't be. You'll probably find many games where you wish it were a Liliana, KotR, Thrun, Sigarda, or just about anything else.
To counterpoint on the Devotion bit; he's BW; Maverick would have to change substantially for you to not already have won at a 3-drop + 3-5 other creatures. (There is not a single WB, BB, or WW permanent in mav. unless you run Lily.) You have to be so far ahead in this build to attack with him it's beyond reasonable consideration.
Sorry if I am reading your comments the wrong way, but I feel a degree of sass with your answer. Until players test the card, the "factual observations" you speak of are nothing more than armchair discussions and "on paper" debate. Having had success in 2014 thus far with GWb Mav, GWB Mav, and Junk (in successive monthly events), this guy is certainly on my radar. This also plays well with something I've been reading about + a key card I might bring back into the mix.
I've openly been on the Confidant bandwagon for a while and the BW God rewards me for playing them. Confidant makes Maverick decks ridiculous. If they kill him, you're saving the real threats. If they let him live, you get much needed gas for future turns. I've been loving Maverick with Confidants and Decay (the best card in the format at the moment). Hell, I switched over to full Junk the other week because of black's strength in the current meta.
Dead serious, you're absolutely right that Liliana of the Veil probably generates better/similar outcomes. The only knock I have against Lily is her BB cost. If she had an easier color requirement, you'd bet I'd pack 3-4 of her in my Maverick shells. However, I pick Decays in my Mav maindecks over her simply because they're easier to cast. I would LOVE to run both but then I have issues with color fixing (and I can't afford to stock up on additional duals).
As for the other options you mention, while KotR has been stellar, I think 3x is the right amount. The 4th is usually overkill and in the late-game I'm burning zenith on her or Ooze anyways. She's too good to drop, but with all my other toys, I've been playing with less KotR than usual. Junk I ran 3 and it I never noticed the difference. I'd heavily consider cutting down to 3 in Maverick if I had the data and experience to justify running something better in that very slot. This is where I'm examining certain tech/options. Crusader is puling its weight for most fair matchups. The other spicy card works well against Wx decks that rely on SFM and STP.
Thrun and Sigarda are unfair comparisons to make -- given their casting costs and different roles. Both Thrun and Sigarda are 'finishers' where I am penciling in the BW God as 'support'. Similar logic would point to how none of the aforementioned cards are as powerful as Elspeth, Knight-Errant...it's "apples to oranges". I've moved all 4 drops out of Maverick's MD. They aren't needed + hurt me with Confidants.
Last, I acknowledge the final decklist with the BW God may need to make some considerable adjustments. Perhaps its a miser card to throw people off and capitalize with developed board states. Perhaps it needs the Vial version to function properly (because you need less G and more WB). Maybe this needs to become deadguy or junk. Maybe the card actually sucks lol. I hope not. I certainly like the card more than the Godsend equipment.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
After another event (made 26th of 128), the real tech with Maverick is Abrupt Decay and Pernicious Deed. You literally steal games against decks. I'm serious. 2x Deed in the board is such a good catch-all right now. Likewise, I think the next event I'm in I'll play 4x Decay in the 75. Went 3x in the MD Sunday and it was relevant + powerful all day long.
When I did have maverick built, I also maindecked 3x decay. They're just way too good.
I know its way better. I was just putting out there... Speaking out which, they are also printing true believer on a stick.
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
I know its way better. I was just putting out there... Speaking out which, they are also printing true believer on a stick.
Isn't true believer already a stick? The new card is better though, since it's W1 instead of WW.
Regarding artreos, I love the card, but I just don't see it for Maverick. Mav already thrives on stalled-out board states, and if I'm trying to stop sweepers I'd rather just have Teeg. It really does feel "win-more" where it's good, and pretty useless in our bad matchups. A deck like death and taxes would love this card if they can splash black for it (shouldn't be too hard even without fetches since you want vial on 3 anyway).
Really, I think artreos is best in a white/black swarm deck, to survive sweepers & provide late-game gas, or profit off sac effects.
Sorry if I am reading your comments the wrong way, but I feel a degree of sass with your answer. Until players test the card, the "factual observations" you speak of are nothing more than armchair discussions and "on paper" debate.
The "factual observations" were:
I will point out though; if the opponent:
-boarded or run Rest in Peace/Void/Relic(maybe)/etc.. (every not-dredge deck)
-they Plow'd/Path'd/Terminus'd/Submerge'd/etc.. (almost all white or blue)
-they have DRS or Scooze (or now Pharika) (all gb aggro, most gb control)
...
-(different post) mediocre/useless to Batterskull
None of those are opinions.
Ex.1 They plow your guy
Ex.2 DRS on the board, they decay your KotR
Ex.3 You chump skull; they gain 4+, then lose 3.
It had some degree of snarky-ness because you're not countering all the problems with the card; you're disagreeing with my observations (which are definitely factual.) That said; I believe you must be a good player (E.G. you've been doing well in large tournies) and are simply distracted by all the "shiny"; if that makes up for the sass :p.
I'll agree that Maverick is weak to sweepers, but I do have to note that Terminus couldn't care less about this guy. I don't know if he does enough against other common sweepers like Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution, as decks packing those will likely be packing Deathrite Shamans, possibly in conjunction with a Sc'ooze. Sadly, I don't know how much he helps there. Just my thoughts.
I'll agree that Maverick is weak to sweepers, but I do have to note that Terminus couldn't care less about this guy. I don't know if he does enough against other common sweepers like Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution, as decks packing those will likely be packing Deathrite Shamans, possibly in conjunction with a Sc'ooze. Sadly, I don't know how much he helps there. Just my thoughts.
I guess he really doesn't cover against terminus, hmm. Does he get swept by terminus as well? Or only if there's devotion?
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I'll agree that Maverick is weak to sweepers, but I do have to note that Terminus couldn't care less about this guy. I don't know if he does enough against other common sweepers like Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution, as decks packing those will likely be packing Deathrite Shamans, possibly in conjunction with a Sc'ooze. Sadly, I don't know how much he helps there. Just my thoughts.
I guess he really doesn't cover against terminus, hmm. Does he get swept by terminus as well? Or only if there's devotion?
only with devotion.
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Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
So I'm curious: has anyone been testing Punishing Maverick here? Sure, it precludes Thalia, but it also shuts down Delvers, Deathrites, Jaces, Lilianas, Stoneforge, Confidant, etc...and the combo MU's right now seem to be aided by it as well, as Punishing Fire helps against Elves! and the red splash give better game against SnT with the addition of blasts in the board. Admittedly, the loss of Thalia hurts...but maybe this warrants testing of Spirit of the Labyrinth in its place?
That's an interesting thought, switching out Thalia for Spirit in a Punishing Maverick build. I'd gladly give it a go had I the Groves to support it. Perhaps I ought to acquire some, though they seem overpriced to me.
I'm still playing Dark Maverick, which I shall henceforth refer to as Pirates. (Get it?) I've come up with an unusual take on it: forgoing equipment entirely to include the Dark Depths combo. This allows me to include Null Rod in my sideboard. The rod ranges from decent (against Cloudpost, Miracles, DnT, other equipment decks) to backbreaking (MUD, Tezzerator) a lot of the time. Tower of the Magistrate offers further insurance against equipment, and since half of the list doesn't play blue, Enlightened Tutor can help find it.
Blood Moon wrecks a lot of the decks that feature the Dark Depths combo... but not so much this one. All it needs is the one Forest or mana dork, and GSZ --> Pridemage threatens to turn off Blood Moon, tutor the fatal lands, and win with Marit Lage.
Punishing Fires needs a fair meta. Black is way better against combo as discard IMHO is inherently stronger than anything red brings in. Red is also 'okay' against SnT decks. It's very strong against blue-centric decks and has the potential to ruin Jace decks.
That's an interesting thought, switching out Thalia for Spirit in a Punishing Maverick build. I'd gladly give it a go had I the Groves to support it. Perhaps I ought to acquire some, though they seem overpriced to me.
I'm still playing Dark Maverick, which I shall henceforth refer to as Pirates. (Get it?) I've come up with an unusual take on it: forgoing equipment entirely to include the Dark Depths combo. This allows me to include Null Rod in my sideboard. The rod ranges from decent (against Cloudpost, Miracles, DnT, other equipment decks) to backbreaking (MUD, Tezzerator) a lot of the time. Tower of the Magistrate offers further insurance against equipment, and since half of the list doesn't play blue, Enlightened Tutor can help find it.
@Lormador: What's your DD/Stage list btw? Just curious what you put in the flex to fit the combo. Thx
Blood Moon wrecks a lot of the decks that feature the Dark Depths combo... but not so much this one. All it needs is the one Forest or mana dork, and GSZ --> Pridemage threatens to turn off Blood Moon, tutor the fatal lands, and win with Marit Lage.
This all sounds valid. Null Rod makes me want to bring back an E.Tutor board but I've been having way too much luck with dedicated boards. I think Blood Moon for any 3 color maverick deck is actually scary. If you do not have a basic, all your nonbasics (including fetches) are worthless. That's never good. I too am looking at DD/Stage but can never fit it in my list. I'd have to sacrifice abrupt decay and I'm using it as my security blanket atm. I can't separate myself from that card...it's the best thing in the format right now. However, Lormador does raise a fact about QPM: he's vital. Seriously, this guy is insane. He is a swiss army knife against what the meta has become. I love him against DnT because he nukes their vials / revokers / equips.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
This list is as much about me figuring out what I enjoy doing in the game as it is trying to win. I realized that the decks I gravitate towards share one thing in common: using an absurd tap ability on a creature to win the game. What decks do I generally enjoy playing? Maverick (KOTR), Metalworker (Metalworker, Forgemaster, Goblin Welder), DnT (Mangara), Goblin Stompy (Moggcatcher).
That's what led me to this list. I wanted Knight taps to do as much as they possibly could, so the only utility lands left out are Sejiri Steppe and Gaea's Cradle. I don't really need the Cradle with the equipment gone, and I never really found the Steppe that attractive. I'm also up to 4 Knights where I had 3 previously, and having 2 of them on the board is now much more useful.
Dropping the equipment plan not only let me drop the Cradle (and anything reducing the fragility of the mana base is really good here), it opened up enough slots so that I could go back up to 4 Mother of Runes, add my extra Knight, keep my "finisher" slot (Thrun is my choice there), include a Sylvan Safekeeper, and play with my Bird Wizards. I really like the Bird Wizards and believe them to be better here than in any other deck. The main DnT lament with this card is that he's slow, but now I get to accelerate him out.
...
Unfortunately I decided to play Goblin Stompy in today's event, and was duly punished for this extremely rash decision. Fortunately, the losses occurred so rapidly and with such a degree of sympathy from my victorious opponents that I was able to test out the Maverick deck that I posted above. The results were much more positive than I'd been expecting, I'm pleased to report. The 20/20 Marit Lage token did all manner of work, variously sailing over armies of pyromancers and accompanying Elementals; a field of Wurmcoil Engines, their spare parts, a Metalworker and a Lightning-Greaved Kozilek; but best of all providing an instant-speed, lethal punch to a player defended by a Pernicious Deed and a Liliana of the Veil. Once half of the combo is on the table, a KOTR taps get a whole lot scarier.
The deck runs super smoothly without equipment. Green Sun's Zenith really holds it together. I thought I'd miss not being able to strap up equipment and go to town on someone's board, but as it turns out the indestructible flying $20 token makes gear sort of irrelevant.
Thomas Herzog made it to Top 4 at SCG: Detroit with a light splash of black in Maverick, just enough to support Deathrite Shaman and Persecution/Seize out of the board. Looks like a really tight list, I like what he did. Also had a number of sick plays.
^Agree. some of his plays put me in suspense, especially that G1 in the Q.finals against RUG with the topdecked bolt a turn too late, and G2 with the psych-out on Zealous Persecution. I fist pumped on both those occasions.
first time to see a deck having 2 sylvan in action given that sylvan is an autocounter. good job!
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Legacy: GWB Maverick; W Death and Taxes
Modern: GWB Abzan Coco; BWR Mardu; GWB Knightfall; BW Eldrazi Taxes
Tiny Leaders: GWB Anafenza
@Lormander
I'd swap Bog with the Maze. Maze is dead very often and can't produce mana; Bog on the other hand can make that difference between a throw vs. keep; while hosing KotR, Lands/Loam decks, Goyf, PiF storms, Dredge, and other random interactions (such as EE + Academy Ruins, PFire, Dark Blast, Bloodghast/Nether Spirit, Tombstalker.) Compared to simply untapping *some* of the beaters in the format or enabling funky KotR tricks; my experience is tha Maze is best in the sideboard; while Bog is very nice to have access to.
If you accidentally win Dredge G1 because you found bog or KotR, it's a grand feeling indeed. I see at least 1 dredge deck a week; often from different people; with usually 1-2 Junk/Mav kinds of decks, a handful of Miracles, Storm and Sneakshow; with a bit of Nic Fit and other random decks in there.
(Unrelated, last week I instead saw 4-6 very different BUG lists, from Nic Fit, to walker control, to TNN aggro..)
One other thing I've been working on is cutting the silly Sylvan Safekeeper for another fetchland, and dropping the Thrun for another Thalia. A hypergeometric examination of my manabase revealed it to be a little too greedy.
I'd also like to find room for 1-2 Duress in that board, but I'm not sure what to take out.
I'm in accords with tescrin. When I played Junk a few weeks ago I won a game because I had bog in the maindeck and had one of those "oops your grave is just gone now" moments (reanimator opponent cast exhume...I have an active knight on the table..."In respose -> fetch bog" was quite a win).
I believe if you're running the 3 color version you need 3 splash duals. If you're deep into the 3rd color, you need between 4-5 and possibly a basic. The only technicality I can think of is punishing maverick, which wants 3-4 groves and 1-2 duals.
@Lormador
I debate about duress as well. Honestly, I found Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozelik to be the real discard package of choice. Even my heavy black run those over Duress. Duress is just not necessary. If it's to fight combo, bringing in 2-3x Ethersworn Canonist and 3-4x [discard] seems to do the trick.
*The other thing I am contemplating is running Leyline of Sanctity instead of discard. In my case, I'm seeing more burn in the meta and losing to storm combo before your second land drop just sucks.
@SCGDetroit Top 4 list
I really like it. I read what his buddy wrote on TheSource and a lot of it makes sense for the room he was in. It also highlights how sick QPM is. I'm really surprised he didn't pack abrupt decay but the argument could be seen for 4 QPM and 6 STP effects in the 75 + better color consistency balancing it out.
I would have shifted some flex slots (see: 4th Thalia) for an abrupt decay or two in the main and then running the 3rd/4th in the SB. Nevertheless, I can't knock a list that did very well. I really dislike the miser choke, but what the hell I've run a miser Sword of X/Y. The list is making me miss my Gaea's Cradle.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
It does make a lot of sense, running 4 QPM and 4 STP instead of the Abrupt Decays. The only card he's not hitting is really Liliana of the Veil, and he's a lot stronger against equipment than otherwise. The good 'ole GSZ@4 against Counterbalance never really goes out of style.
The 4 Thalia makes a lot of sense too, and it's why I want some more discard spells. I'm not representing T1 discard + T2 Thalia often enough, and I feel like T3 Teeg is only threatening when I've fired off a discard spell beforehand. Five will make it happen, and those are also good against Pernicious Deed.
As for manabases, I've decided to no longer trust the prevailing wisdom, and seek salvation only in statistics. Statistics indicates that it's not duals that really matter, but fetches. Any fetch that can grab a forest improves my T1 possibilities more than any dual would. Besides, they fuel Deathrite.
You said the same thing I said (in so many words): you have to be ahead to get use out of him. I think he's a good card; but you'll be hard pressed to find games where he is impressive where another three drop wouldn't be. You'll probably find many games where you wish it were a Liliana, KotR, Thrun, Sigarda, or just about anything else.
To counterpoint on the Devotion bit; he's BW; Maverick would have to change substantially for you to not already have won at a 3-drop + 3-5 other creatures. (There is not a single WB, BB, or WW permanent in mav. unless you run Lily.) You have to be so far ahead in this build to attack with him it's beyond reasonable consideration.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/journey-into-nyx/22374-eidolon-of-rhetoric
Eidolon of Rhetoric 2w
Enchantment Creature - Spirit
Each player can't cast more than one spell each turn.
1/4
So rule of law, but straped on a creature.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Sorry if I am reading your comments the wrong way, but I feel a degree of sass with your answer. Until players test the card, the "factual observations" you speak of are nothing more than armchair discussions and "on paper" debate. Having had success in 2014 thus far with GWb Mav, GWB Mav, and Junk (in successive monthly events), this guy is certainly on my radar. This also plays well with something I've been reading about + a key card I might bring back into the mix.
I've openly been on the Confidant bandwagon for a while and the BW God rewards me for playing them. Confidant makes Maverick decks ridiculous. If they kill him, you're saving the real threats. If they let him live, you get much needed gas for future turns. I've been loving Maverick with Confidants and Decay (the best card in the format at the moment). Hell, I switched over to full Junk the other week because of black's strength in the current meta.
Dead serious, you're absolutely right that Liliana of the Veil probably generates better/similar outcomes. The only knock I have against Lily is her BB cost. If she had an easier color requirement, you'd bet I'd pack 3-4 of her in my Maverick shells. However, I pick Decays in my Mav maindecks over her simply because they're easier to cast. I would LOVE to run both but then I have issues with color fixing (and I can't afford to stock up on additional duals).
As for the other options you mention, while KotR has been stellar, I think 3x is the right amount. The 4th is usually overkill and in the late-game I'm burning zenith on her or Ooze anyways. She's too good to drop, but with all my other toys, I've been playing with less KotR than usual. Junk I ran 3 and it I never noticed the difference. I'd heavily consider cutting down to 3 in Maverick if I had the data and experience to justify running something better in that very slot. This is where I'm examining certain tech/options. Crusader is puling its weight for most fair matchups. The other spicy card works well against Wx decks that rely on SFM and STP.
Thrun and Sigarda are unfair comparisons to make -- given their casting costs and different roles. Both Thrun and Sigarda are 'finishers' where I am penciling in the BW God as 'support'. Similar logic would point to how none of the aforementioned cards are as powerful as Elspeth, Knight-Errant...it's "apples to oranges". I've moved all 4 drops out of Maverick's MD. They aren't needed + hurt me with Confidants.
Last, I acknowledge the final decklist with the BW God may need to make some considerable adjustments. Perhaps its a miser card to throw people off and capitalize with developed board states. Perhaps it needs the Vial version to function properly (because you need less G and more WB). Maybe this needs to become deadguy or junk. Maybe the card actually sucks lol. I hope not. I certainly like the card more than the Godsend equipment.
Ethersworn Canonist is way better.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
When I did have maverick built, I also maindecked 3x decay. They're just way too good.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
I know its way better. I was just putting out there... Speaking out which, they are also printing true believer on a stick.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
Isn't true believer already a stick? The new card is better though, since it's W1 instead of WW.
Regarding artreos, I love the card, but I just don't see it for Maverick. Mav already thrives on stalled-out board states, and if I'm trying to stop sweepers I'd rather just have Teeg. It really does feel "win-more" where it's good, and pretty useless in our bad matchups. A deck like death and taxes would love this card if they can splash black for it (shouldn't be too hard even without fetches since you want vial on 3 anyway).
Really, I think artreos is best in a white/black swarm deck, to survive sweepers & provide late-game gas, or profit off sac effects.
The "factual observations" were:
None of those are opinions.
Ex.1 They plow your guy
Ex.2 DRS on the board, they decay your KotR
Ex.3 You chump skull; they gain 4+, then lose 3.
It had some degree of snarky-ness because you're not countering all the problems with the card; you're disagreeing with my observations (which are definitely factual.) That said; I believe you must be a good player (E.G. you've been doing well in large tournies) and are simply distracted by all the "shiny"; if that makes up for the sass :p.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
I guess he really doesn't cover against terminus, hmm. Does he get swept by terminus as well? Or only if there's devotion?
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
only with devotion.
Playing:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symg::symu::symr:Dredge
:symu::symb: ANT
The Gate
Modern:
:symu::symr: Past in flames Storm
EDH:
:symr::symw::symb: Kaalia of the Vast
I'm still playing Dark Maverick, which I shall henceforth refer to as Pirates. (Get it?) I've come up with an unusual take on it: forgoing equipment entirely to include the Dark Depths combo. This allows me to include Null Rod in my sideboard. The rod ranges from decent (against Cloudpost, Miracles, DnT, other equipment decks) to backbreaking (MUD, Tezzerator) a lot of the time. Tower of the Magistrate offers further insurance against equipment, and since half of the list doesn't play blue, Enlightened Tutor can help find it.
Blood Moon wrecks a lot of the decks that feature the Dark Depths combo... but not so much this one. All it needs is the one Forest or mana dork, and GSZ --> Pridemage threatens to turn off Blood Moon, tutor the fatal lands, and win with Marit Lage.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
This all sounds valid. Null Rod makes me want to bring back an E.Tutor board but I've been having way too much luck with dedicated boards. I think Blood Moon for any 3 color maverick deck is actually scary. If you do not have a basic, all your nonbasics (including fetches) are worthless. That's never good. I too am looking at DD/Stage but can never fit it in my list. I'd have to sacrifice abrupt decay and I'm using it as my security blanket atm. I can't separate myself from that card...it's the best thing in the format right now. However, Lormador does raise a fact about QPM: he's vital. Seriously, this guy is insane. He is a swiss army knife against what the meta has become. I love him against DnT because he nukes their vials / revokers / equips.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Bird of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Null Rod
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Choke
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Plague
This list is as much about me figuring out what I enjoy doing in the game as it is trying to win. I realized that the decks I gravitate towards share one thing in common: using an absurd tap ability on a creature to win the game. What decks do I generally enjoy playing? Maverick (KOTR), Metalworker (Metalworker, Forgemaster, Goblin Welder), DnT (Mangara), Goblin Stompy (Moggcatcher).
That's what led me to this list. I wanted Knight taps to do as much as they possibly could, so the only utility lands left out are Sejiri Steppe and Gaea's Cradle. I don't really need the Cradle with the equipment gone, and I never really found the Steppe that attractive. I'm also up to 4 Knights where I had 3 previously, and having 2 of them on the board is now much more useful.
Dropping the equipment plan not only let me drop the Cradle (and anything reducing the fragility of the mana base is really good here), it opened up enough slots so that I could go back up to 4 Mother of Runes, add my extra Knight, keep my "finisher" slot (Thrun is my choice there), include a Sylvan Safekeeper, and play with my Bird Wizards. I really like the Bird Wizards and believe them to be better here than in any other deck. The main DnT lament with this card is that he's slow, but now I get to accelerate him out.
...
Unfortunately I decided to play Goblin Stompy in today's event, and was duly punished for this extremely rash decision. Fortunately, the losses occurred so rapidly and with such a degree of sympathy from my victorious opponents that I was able to test out the Maverick deck that I posted above. The results were much more positive than I'd been expecting, I'm pleased to report. The 20/20 Marit Lage token did all manner of work, variously sailing over armies of pyromancers and accompanying Elementals; a field of Wurmcoil Engines, their spare parts, a Metalworker and a Lightning-Greaved Kozilek; but best of all providing an instant-speed, lethal punch to a player defended by a Pernicious Deed and a Liliana of the Veil. Once half of the combo is on the table, a KOTR taps get a whole lot scarier.
The deck runs super smoothly without equipment. Green Sun's Zenith really holds it together. I thought I'd miss not being able to strap up equipment and go to town on someone's board, but as it turns out the indestructible flying $20 token makes gear sort of irrelevant.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
first time to see a deck having 2 sylvan in action given that sylvan is an autocounter. good job!
Modern: GWB Abzan Coco; BWR Mardu; GWB Knightfall; BW Eldrazi Taxes
Tiny Leaders: GWB Anafenza
I'd swap Bog with the Maze. Maze is dead very often and can't produce mana; Bog on the other hand can make that difference between a throw vs. keep; while hosing KotR, Lands/Loam decks, Goyf, PiF storms, Dredge, and other random interactions (such as EE + Academy Ruins, PFire, Dark Blast, Bloodghast/Nether Spirit, Tombstalker.) Compared to simply untapping *some* of the beaters in the format or enabling funky KotR tricks; my experience is tha Maze is best in the sideboard; while Bog is very nice to have access to.
If you accidentally win Dredge G1 because you found bog or KotR, it's a grand feeling indeed. I see at least 1 dredge deck a week; often from different people; with usually 1-2 Junk/Mav kinds of decks, a handful of Miracles, Storm and Sneakshow; with a bit of Nic Fit and other random decks in there.
(Unrelated, last week I instead saw 4-6 very different BUG lists, from Nic Fit, to walker control, to TNN aggro..)
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
One other thing I've been working on is cutting the silly Sylvan Safekeeper for another fetchland, and dropping the Thrun for another Thalia. A hypergeometric examination of my manabase revealed it to be a little too greedy.
I'd also like to find room for 1-2 Duress in that board, but I'm not sure what to take out.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I believe if you're running the 3 color version you need 3 splash duals. If you're deep into the 3rd color, you need between 4-5 and possibly a basic. The only technicality I can think of is punishing maverick, which wants 3-4 groves and 1-2 duals.
@Lormador
I debate about duress as well. Honestly, I found Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozelik to be the real discard package of choice. Even my heavy black run those over Duress. Duress is just not necessary. If it's to fight combo, bringing in 2-3x Ethersworn Canonist and 3-4x [discard] seems to do the trick.
*The other thing I am contemplating is running Leyline of Sanctity instead of discard. In my case, I'm seeing more burn in the meta and losing to storm combo before your second land drop just sucks.
@SCGDetroit Top 4 list
I really like it. I read what his buddy wrote on TheSource and a lot of it makes sense for the room he was in. It also highlights how sick QPM is. I'm really surprised he didn't pack abrupt decay but the argument could be seen for 4 QPM and 6 STP effects in the 75 + better color consistency balancing it out.
I would have shifted some flex slots (see: 4th Thalia) for an abrupt decay or two in the main and then running the 3rd/4th in the SB. Nevertheless, I can't knock a list that did very well. I really dislike the miser choke, but what the hell I've run a miser Sword of X/Y. The list is making me miss my Gaea's Cradle.
The list (incase people have no idea what's being referred to): http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66544
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
The 4 Thalia makes a lot of sense too, and it's why I want some more discard spells. I'm not representing T1 discard + T2 Thalia often enough, and I feel like T3 Teeg is only threatening when I've fired off a discard spell beforehand. Five will make it happen, and those are also good against Pernicious Deed.
As for manabases, I've decided to no longer trust the prevailing wisdom, and seek salvation only in statistics. Statistics indicates that it's not duals that really matter, but fetches. Any fetch that can grab a forest improves my T1 possibilities more than any dual would. Besides, they fuel Deathrite.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730