I don't think ruric thar is a good idea; it's way too expensive. You need answers early against combo.
I don't think hymn to tourach is a good idea. It'll be hard to cast without an explorer, and it's better to disrupt combo early with targeted discard.
I'm not sold on ichneumon druid. It is gsz'able, but I think it's more effective to use nether void, memoricide, and cranial extraction.
I agree - but ruric thar has got a lot more merit in a combo heavy meta than the second stormbreath dragon does - and it's the same cmc. He's also a 12 life swing if hit by StP (hits opp for 6 you gain 6).
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Ruric thar is sideboard at best; it doesn't even do anything against certain combo decks. The second stormbreath should be taken out for another pfire. Speaking off that sensei's is good with more pfires because you can shuffle away excess pfires or find a grove. You want to cast pfires starting on t2, and 4 pfires really helps with that.
I'd rather just play sun Titan + pernicious deed. Also tempo decks are pretty much a bye for us anyway; ramp trumps mana denial, and they are short on ways to deal with big creatures. RUW is slightly worse but still very favorable.
What is the point of natural order? In what matchups do you think it will help?
Pretty much this. I don't see the rationale behind putting NO into NicFit other than pushing a cutesy idea across.
Burning Wish-Nic Fit at least has merits as it gets you "outs" and lines of play against decks/situations. NO at best grabs what? Progenitus? The 15/15 wurm guy?
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Recently I have been testing the idea of incorporating 1-2 groundbreaker and 1-2 strangleroot geist in my 60 for cheap beatdown creatures and additional cabal therapy support.
I often find that with most nic fit lists, (with only veteran explorers as cabal flashback targets) there are usually idle cabal therapy's in my graveyard which ideally would be utilized.
I like groundbreaker in some matchups because
a) It can be put into play via GSZ
b) It tramples over creatures (makes me feel like im casting green burn)
c) It can be sacrificed at end of turn for a cabal therapy
I don't like the fact that it is GGG though, which at times is more difficult to cast if im trying to split my lands between B and G and do not have a GSZ in hand.
Any thoughts?
Groundbreaker is pretty terribad. Nic-Fit should have absolutely no issues with having to resort to a double-bolt-creature for any need of trampling over creatures (primetime tramples, P. Deed., Liliana, Birthing Pod ramp/tutor, etc.). Groundbreaker is just a bad card. Strangleroot Geist is ok, but if you're looking for cabal therapy synergy then Bloodghast seems infinitely better. It has the potential to cost 0 mana, comes back more than once and isn't exactly a $$ staple.
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Bloodghast is dead in nic fit on its own. I would actually rather run strangleroot geist over it because it can be gsz'ed for and does relevant stuff (ie: blocks) without therapy.
Bloodghast isn't tutorable via GSZ. That is a large downside for me. It also costs BB which is also not very preferable in such a green intensive deck.
Primevil Titan is clearly a superior card, but when casting it via GSZ it costs 7 mana. (And lets be honest, you aren't running 4 of them maindeck to have a higher probability to hardcast without GSZ). Excess Titans clog hands, and 7 mana is a huge investment. I know the deck can generate mana very well, but in my opinion, the sweet spot for Nic Fit is around 4 mana.
I am often finding that most Nic fit decklists do a great job at blowing stuff up i.e. with abrupt decay, deed, etc but don't do a very good job getting damage through since the creatures they pack in their 60 are value added creatures with no evasion. Such is green, chump blocked for days.
I was thinking of running a singleton Ifh-Bíff Efreet along with a singleton Groundbreaker in my 60. I know the card quality isn't out of this world either of them, but they do a few desirable things.
Groundbreaker
1. Gets damage through,
2. pitches to cabal End of Turn,
3. can be tutored via GSZ,
4. can be recurred via recurring nightmare, eternal witness
Ifh-Biff
1. Able to deal with delver of secrets
2. can put pressure on plainswalkers (namely Jace)
3. Ability doesn't require tapping. Can swing in, pump twice to get 5 damage through, pump up on their turn as well to get additional damage in.
Nic fit is a control deck. It doesn't need to get in early damage. You can hit 7 land drops without ramp in a game, and I have before. Especially in the grindy matchups where it's necessary.
I understand the concept of the deck and its attempt to win via card quality over an opponent by ramping over them. The reality though, is that you don't always open up games with veteran explorer/cabal therapy and you sometimes need a plan B aside from ramp. Against certain matchups i.e. combo elves and merfolk, giving an opponent extra basics isn't good for us either.
Strangleroot Giest is a cheap beater (obviously no goyf) that is hard to hate out and can be cabal fodder. In a heavy TNN metagame, being able to consistently cast cabal therapy is an asset since once he gets online, most of the classic nicfit decklists cant deal with him, or cant deal with him reliably.
Again with Ifh Biff, he's just another beater with an ability that we can sometimes profit from. Sure we have Pernicious deeds in the deck, but they cant be tutored via GSZ and they do nothing to planeswalkers. We don't always get deeds when we want them and to me, having a little bit of overlap is fine with some form of creature hate.
Ifh biff could be a sideboard card if you need it
Strangleroot geist is a beater, but nic fit doesn't need that. Nic fit runs multiple pernicious deed in the maindeck, and can run additional options md or sb in order to deal with tnn. In addition, nic fit can run other ramp/sac outlet options (gsz -> explorer, phyrexian tower, deathrite shaman, etc.) For those reasons, I believe strangleroot is not necessary.
I wasn't exactly sure what creatures I should have in the deck or how should I play the deck. There must be reason to add red cards like Punishing Fire? I was thinking of just making it a Black/Green deck. I don't have any Sac Lands or many dual lands. I have 2 stomping grounds, 1 overgrown tomb and 1 taiga. I wasn't exactly sure what big creatures I should be playing in the deck. I understand you should be playing 1 Primeval Titan. What other big green creatures would you run? I'm was thinking about Thragtusk, Thrun the Last Troll, Deranged Hermit and Grave Titan. Out of those Grave Titan would be the worst because you want creatures that can be targeted with Green Sun's Zenith. After adding those big creatures I was thinking of adding smaller creature cards like either Deathrite Shaman or Scavening Ooze. I have 2 deathrite shaman's lying around I could add to the deck. I wasn't sure if adding deathrite shaman's would be a good fit or if I should just buy 1-2 scavenging ooze.
I was wondering if there is some kind of Protean Hulk package this deck could benefit from.
I've been trying to play around with a one of at cmc7, and I feel like this card could have some potential.
The traditional Protean Hulk combos involve a bit too many cards for me to want to play it, I think 3 or 4 slots (including the Hulk) is all that I would prefer to commit. I'm currently doing research on possible packages, but was wondering if this card has come up before, and if so, what were the findings.
I was wondering if there is some kind of Protean Hulk package this deck could benefit from.
I've been trying to play around with a one of at cmc7, and I feel like this card could have some potential.
The traditional Protean Hulk combos involve a bit too many cards for me to want to play it, I think 3 or 4 slots (including the Hulk) is all that I would prefer to commit. I'm currently doing research on possible packages, but was wondering if this card has come up before, and if so, what were the findings.
It seems interesting, though my first thoughts are that there are other bombs that need less slots devoted to them to win.
It seems interesting, though my first thoughts are that there are other bombs that need less slots devoted to them to win.
I was mostly trying to consider it for the possibility of a context in which trying to swing a few times with a Grave Titan wouldn't work, and you perhaps needed an alternate path to close out the game.
I don't know, maybe it's too narrow, just thought I'd ask around if the card had come up at all before with relation to this deck.
I'm surprised that as a MtgSource DTB that there isn't more conversation here. Anyway, I keep having the issue of no way to use my lands effectively if the game gets grindy. I still kinda like my old solution of Life // Death; but so far I've thought of:
-Life//Death..
-Sylvan Safekeeper (Tutorable, 1-of, we run fat and protecting them for free seems good)
-Zuran Orb (Primetime effective nets you 4 health every attack when you want. Starts begging for KotR support..)
-Other stuff?
Basically; while I like that my Nic Fit tends to empty the entire landbase I find it annoying that all that card advantage starts going to waste. Turning lands into card or board advantage is the final trick I'm looking for as I refine the rest of the deck.
@tescrin, why not play a man-land, especially if you're playing Primeval Titan? I'm trying to build the BUG version of Nic Fit with Baleful Strix and Brainstorm, and I'm sleeving up one Creeping Tar Pit for this very reason. That way you don't have to play situational, low impact cards like Zuran Orb. I might also try Volrath's Stronghold as, essentially, Recurring Nightmare #2 and a way to reset on an empty board, but I don't know if the mana base can support Stronghold, CPT AND Phyrexian Tower. Will hafta do some testing.
Maze, Tower, Karakas, and Bog can already be pretty dead at times; but they also flat out win games by themselves through the titan or Crop Rotation. I had Dust Bowl for a bit; but given that it's only live against Tempo and TES and that it takes awhile to get rolling; I put it in the side (and may remove it entirely.) Even if I find space for a Manland; I don't think it'd solve my issue of having 6 fetches just sitting there doing nothing. The orb at least turns them into health (but it's a terrible starting hand card, not tutorable, and only good in the super late-game.) I could consider a Deserted Temple as a way to get multi-use out of Karakas and Maze..
This is partly why I questioned Life//Death as a separate finisher given that swarming someone with 15 lands is an insta-gib while Death can work for getting fat out of the yard or recurring a utility creature when you're desperate.
Are you running Knight of the Reliquary? You could always "fail to find" with your fetchlands and make that hoss huge. And are you running Deathrite Shaman? If you're not, maybe you could cut back on your fetchland count in favor of mana-producing and/or utility lands(?). I haven't played the deck, so I'm just thinking out loud.
What I might be making/playing for star city detroit. It's between this, merfolk, d/t, affinity. Basically the 900$ or less decks. Trying to decide on a good sideboard for an unknown meta. any thoughts are appreciated.
I'd definitely consider some number of Sensei's Divining Tops - most lists play three - especially with eight fetchlands. And the curve feels a bit high. You might be light on 2-drops, seeing as Birthing Pod builds from the bottom up. I'd consider cards like Qasali Pridemage; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben; and Voice of Resurgence. Just ideas, haven't tested a Junk version at all. I like Orzhov Pontiff against True-Name Nemesis decks. Someone with more experience with this archetype could probably help you more with specifics.
Sylvan ranger and stoneforge mystic are probably better than wall of blossoms, but other than that I think the number of 2-drops are fine. Definitely run 3-4 tops. Acidic slime isn't really necessary with harmonic sliver. Grave Titan isn't really necessary with sun titan. You could also cut an abrupt decay; you have a lot of removal. Murderous redcap has more synergy with pod than Shriekmaw, and you need another 4-drop. For you sideboard, you should probably have carpet of flower, spirit of the labryrinth, and more diversified combo hate.
Has anyone tried Underworld Cerberus in versions that play red? He seems fun.
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I agree - but ruric thar has got a lot more merit in a combo heavy meta than the second stormbreath dragon does - and it's the same cmc. He's also a 12 life swing if hit by StP (hits opp for 6 you gain 6).
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Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
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Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
pfiremc13 on the source
Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
pfiremc13 on the source
Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
Pretty much this. I don't see the rationale behind putting NO into NicFit other than pushing a cutesy idea across.
Burning Wish-Nic Fit at least has merits as it gets you "outs" and lines of play against decks/situations. NO at best grabs what? Progenitus? The 15/15 wurm guy?
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Groundbreaker is pretty terribad. Nic-Fit should have absolutely no issues with having to resort to a double-bolt-creature for any need of trampling over creatures (primetime tramples, P. Deed., Liliana, Birthing Pod ramp/tutor, etc.). Groundbreaker is just a bad card. Strangleroot Geist is ok, but if you're looking for cabal therapy synergy then Bloodghast seems infinitely better. It has the potential to cost 0 mana, comes back more than once and isn't exactly a $$ staple.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Bloodghast is dead in nic fit on its own. I would actually rather run strangleroot geist over it because it can be gsz'ed for and does relevant stuff (ie: blocks) without therapy.
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I should stop making so many different names for myself.
Nic fit is a control deck. It doesn't need to get in early damage. You can hit 7 land drops without ramp in a game, and I have before. Especially in the grindy matchups where it's necessary.
Ifh biff could be a sideboard card if you need it
Strangleroot geist is a beater, but nic fit doesn't need that. Nic fit runs multiple pernicious deed in the maindeck, and can run additional options md or sb in order to deal with tnn. In addition, nic fit can run other ramp/sac outlet options (gsz -> explorer, phyrexian tower, deathrite shaman, etc.) For those reasons, I believe strangleroot is not necessary.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
pfiremc13 on the source
Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
I've been trying to play around with a one of at cmc7, and I feel like this card could have some potential.
The traditional Protean Hulk combos involve a bit too many cards for me to want to play it, I think 3 or 4 slots (including the Hulk) is all that I would prefer to commit. I'm currently doing research on possible packages, but was wondering if this card has come up before, and if so, what were the findings.
It seems interesting, though my first thoughts are that there are other bombs that need less slots devoted to them to win.
Modern Patagia Viper Combo
pfiremc13 on the source
Inkfathom Biomage on Undisclosed Magic Software
I should stop making so many different names for myself.
I was mostly trying to consider it for the possibility of a context in which trying to swing a few times with a Grave Titan wouldn't work, and you perhaps needed an alternate path to close out the game.
I don't know, maybe it's too narrow, just thought I'd ask around if the card had come up at all before with relation to this deck.
-Life//Death..
-Sylvan Safekeeper (Tutorable, 1-of, we run fat and protecting them for free seems good)
-Zuran Orb (Primetime effective nets you 4 health every attack when you want. Starts begging for KotR support..)
-Other stuff?
Basically; while I like that my Nic Fit tends to empty the entire landbase I find it annoying that all that card advantage starts going to waste. Turning lands into card or board advantage is the final trick I'm looking for as I refine the rest of the deck.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Maze, Tower, Karakas, and Bog can already be pretty dead at times; but they also flat out win games by themselves through the titan or Crop Rotation. I had Dust Bowl for a bit; but given that it's only live against Tempo and TES and that it takes awhile to get rolling; I put it in the side (and may remove it entirely.) Even if I find space for a Manland; I don't think it'd solve my issue of having 6 fetches just sitting there doing nothing. The orb at least turns them into health (but it's a terrible starting hand card, not tutorable, and only good in the super late-game.) I could consider a Deserted Temple as a way to get multi-use out of Karakas and Maze..
This is partly why I questioned Life//Death as a separate finisher given that swarming someone with 15 lands is an insta-gib while Death can work for getting fat out of the yard or recurring a utility creature when you're desperate.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
Critters: 20
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Restoration Angel
1 Academy Rector
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Grave Titan
1 Sun Titan
Non-Critters: 19
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Birthing Pod
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
What I might be making/playing for star city detroit. It's between this, merfolk, d/t, affinity. Basically the 900$ or less decks. Trying to decide on a good sideboard for an unknown meta. any thoughts are appreciated.
EDH:
UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness
BGW Ghave's Garden
WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count
Vintage:
URWelder
WUBRG Dredge
Kitchen Table:
B Zombies in Your Head