Hey fellow red mages. I’m here to help add some feedback from the last few FNM’s at my LGS. I have played a variety of decks and only lost 1 round in the last 3 weeks. Decks I have played against with tldr summary of each:
Lands: 2-0 basically a super easy win and person I played against admits burn is the worst matchup due to Price of Progress. Essentially get some damage in within the first couple of turns then wait for the crop rotation to finish them off.
Infect: 2-1 pretty easy even though we both misplayed. They only have a limited amount of creatures so having blazes are big here.
Grixis Vial Smasher?: 2-0 never played against it before and the games were very close (1st game was down to 5 and 2nd was down to 2). Vial Smasher + FoW is brutal.
Stoneblade 1: 2-0 This was a American Control which was a cake walk. Red splash was light apparently discussing lists afterwards as I only saw a bolt played in both games.
Stoneblade 2: 1-2 The list was normal Stoneblade with Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek combo in it. He got game 1 which I was able to get him down to 2 life before for stabilized with the combo. 2nd game was a blowout as I had my Smash to Smithereens in opener. 3rd game he was able to land a Chill which I didn’t see any of my REB. I had Sulfuric Vortex in hand but got stuck on 4 lands.
Eldrazi: 2-0 Easiest game by far. Price did work along with him doing damage to himself with Ancient Tomb.
U/R Deliver: 2-0 As you might guess by now not difficult in the slightest. Sided in Volcanic Fallout and Searing Blaze and destroyed his board.
Modern U/W control: 2-0 I kinda felt bad but the guy thought his deck was good enough to play in legacy.
If y’all have any questions let me know. I play both modern and legacy regularly as 1 LGS plays modern on Monday and the other plays legacy on Friday.
What does your 75 look like? I'm more interested as to what you have in sideboard and what you take out in each match up and put in in each matchup because I am new to the Legacy scene and chances are I will only be playing at Big tournaments
Stifle seems to have fallen out of favor in my experience, but it's not absent. What are you worried about being Stifled?
Vexing Shusher I think is pretty bad, being rather mana intensive for what it does. I'd rather just have another burn spell, which in effect also removes the counterspell. But then again, who am I to gainsay Patrick Sullivan.
As far as targets for stifle, Crypt was one I wanted to play in sideboard as my graveyard hate since it is a zero drop but there's also the ability for them to stop a fetchland or any other card I might use that would have an activation in its cost like lavamancer. do you feel that pillar is really needed when we already have eidolon Main deck?
I don't consider the risk of a Stifled Crypt to be significant enough to not play Crypt. What are my other options which aren't susceptible to Stifle, anyway? Hope to hit 3 mana for Ensnaring Bridge, which still doesn't solve the Iona issue? Splash for RiP? I think Crypt or Faerie Macabre are the best options.
Stifled Lavamancer tends to be a waste of a Stifle. Stifling a fetchland is sometimes problematic, and is one of the reasons I don't run fetchlands.
As for Pillar, no, it's not necessary. It is, however, often very effective. Moreover, it's also funny. The thing is: once they're on the backfoot, Pillar is always to your advantage.
As I said, I'm not sure that the Harsh Mentors will stay. You will also notice I play no fetches, and I use Blood over Blaze, and include Lavamancer. My local group is creature-based enough (and aggressive enough) that this makes sense. These are choices you may find others will not agree with (common dogma is that Lavamancers mandate fetches, and that with fetches Blaze beats Blood).
As always, evaluate your meta. Deviations from a core of 19-land, 16-bolt, 4 GG, 4 Eidolon, and 6 Fireblast/PoP are probably not going to total more than few win percentage points anyway, so you have room to customize.
My sb is going to change soon once I get 3 Ensnaring Bridges, but here is current sb.
3 Smash to Smithereens (any relevant artifacts)
3 Grafdigger’s Cage (Dredge and Reanimater mainly but hits GSZ and NO decks as well)
2 Volcanic Fallout (Delever and Elves mainly)
2 Pyrostatic Pillar (storm mainly but also good against some other combo decks)
3 Red Elemental Blast (any deck playing Blue)
2 Searing Blaze (creature relevant deck)
I will drop 1 Pillar 1 Blaze and 1 Fallout to bring in Bridge which will help in big creature deck. Hope this helps. Also I’m playing fetches because I have gone back and forth on running Lavamancer.
My sb is going to change soon once I get 3 Ensnaring Bridges, but here is current sb.
3 Smash to Smithereens (any relevant artifacts)
3 Grafdigger’s Cage (Dredge and Reanimater mainly but hits GSZ and NO decks as well)
2 Volcanic Fallout (Delever and Elves mainly)
2 Pyrostatic Pillar (storm mainly but also good against some other combo decks)
3 Red Elemental Blast (any deck playing Blue)
2 Searing Blaze (creature relevant deck)
I will drop 1 Pillar 1 Blaze and 1 Fallout to bring in Bridge which will help in big creature deck. Hope this helps. Also I’m playing fetches because I have gone back and forth on running Lavamancer.
should we run a 3 dmg sweeper instead if we are worried about elves? idk how many lords they run but they can easily get out of fallout range quick
No Elves in legacy don’t really run any lords. Mostly swarm the board and tutor for Craterhoof so they aren’t bigger than 2/2. Eidolon also helps on the play along with Grafdigger’s Cage.
Even so, most Lords wouldn't survive Fallout except in multiples, and you have multiple spells that can remove one anyway (L. Bolt, Chain L., R. Bolt, S. Blaze, etc.).
Even so, most Lords wouldn't survive Fallout except in multiples, and you have multiple spells that can remove one anyway (L. Bolt, Chain L., R. Bolt, S. Blaze, etc.).
Yep contrary to popular belief from those that don’t fully understand burn we do have to point some burn at creatures sometimes. Beautiful interaction between Fallout and Swiftspear is she survives while wiping the board.
Swiftspear is as close to a Goblin Guide as possible with potential upside for more damage output. Being that Chain Lightning, Lava Spike, and essentially Rift Bolt are sorcery speed spells anyways she does well.
There's some debate over the number of Price and Fireblast to play.
The first Fireblast is almost indispensable to the deck's speed. There is no substitute for an instant-speed burst of 4 damage while tapped out. That said, a second copy has the potential to be a dead draw (especially if you're on 18-19 land, the majority of which are fetches). You can judge for yourself if it's worth the risk. For me, not playing fetches but having Lavamancer in the MD means I play the full four.
Price is almost always good for 4 or 6 unless you face a few very specific opponents (like the mirror). When it does 6, it just wins. When it does 4, it's not bad at all. When it does 0 or 2, it's awful. Choosing how many to play is a metagame call of "how often will this be dead, versus awesome." That's how I ended up with 3 MD and 1 SB. The dogma is to run 4 MD. I could see 2 MD, 2 SB being successful as well.
Flame Rift is to me a non-bo with Eidolon in the main. Taking 6 while only doing 4 is terrible to me, especially since you have every other spell outside of Flameblast also do damage. Forget having 2 Flame Rifts in hand with Eidolon...
i know the main is 61 but i cant help it. i feel id either cut a blaze or land to amke it 60. land feels wrong with 4 blasts, lavamancer, and blaze main/sb. feel free to critique. just give a reason as to why to cut sonething or why to change a certain quantity.
You might be able to get away with one less land, but I see your logic. The deck looks fine.
As for Flame Rift, that tech predates the advent of Eidolon. Regardless, it was bad then, and it is bad now.
I agree with this. 19 lands is still fine. Many list run 19 land with 4 Fireblast. Overall I believe you will do well.
are they also running lavaman and blaze? bc the more of those i have the more i feel 20 is right. espcially with 12 spells in the main that need 2 or more mana. and possibly more out of the board and im not sure how easy it would be to recover after a fire blast for free with only 19 lands. In modern I run 19 but I don't Sac to lands for shard volley
What does your 75 look like? I'm more interested as to what you have in sideboard and what you take out in each match up and put in in each matchup because I am new to the Legacy scene and chances are I will only be playing at Big tournaments
Stifle seems to have fallen out of favor in my experience, but it's not absent. What are you worried about being Stifled?
Vexing Shusher I think is pretty bad, being rather mana intensive for what it does. I'd rather just have another burn spell, which in effect also removes the counterspell. But then again, who am I to gainsay Patrick Sullivan.
My SB has Tormod's Crypt, Ensnaring Bridge, Smash to Smithereens, Pyrostatic Pillar, Sulfuric Vortex, and Harsh Mentor. The latter is something I'm just experimenting with, and am unconvinced it's good enough (it's great on turn 2, but pretty bad after turn 3). Exquisite Firecraft is another very good answer to blue players, and Volcanic Fallout is surprisingly versatile.
Cool report. Congrats and well done.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Stifled Lavamancer tends to be a waste of a Stifle. Stifling a fetchland is sometimes problematic, and is one of the reasons I don't run fetchlands.
As for Pillar, no, it's not necessary. It is, however, often very effective. Moreover, it's also funny. The thing is: once they're on the backfoot, Pillar is always to your advantage.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I haven't posted a list in a while, so here's my current 75 for reference.
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blood
3 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Harsh Mentor
1 Price of Progress
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Tormod's Crypt
As I said, I'm not sure that the Harsh Mentors will stay. You will also notice I play no fetches, and I use Blood over Blaze, and include Lavamancer. My local group is creature-based enough (and aggressive enough) that this makes sense. These are choices you may find others will not agree with (common dogma is that Lavamancers mandate fetches, and that with fetches Blaze beats Blood).
As always, evaluate your meta. Deviations from a core of 19-land, 16-bolt, 4 GG, 4 Eidolon, and 6 Fireblast/PoP are probably not going to total more than few win percentage points anyway, so you have room to customize.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
12 Mountain
8 Fetches
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon the Great Revel
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex
My sb is going to change soon once I get 3 Ensnaring Bridges, but here is current sb.
3 Smash to Smithereens (any relevant artifacts)
3 Grafdigger’s Cage (Dredge and Reanimater mainly but hits GSZ and NO decks as well)
2 Volcanic Fallout (Delever and Elves mainly)
2 Pyrostatic Pillar (storm mainly but also good against some other combo decks)
3 Red Elemental Blast (any deck playing Blue)
2 Searing Blaze (creature relevant deck)
I will drop 1 Pillar 1 Blaze and 1 Fallout to bring in Bridge which will help in big creature deck. Hope this helps. Also I’m playing fetches because I have gone back and forth on running Lavamancer.
should we run a 3 dmg sweeper instead if we are worried about elves? idk how many lords they run but they can easily get out of fallout range quick
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Yep contrary to popular belief from those that don’t fully understand burn we do have to point some burn at creatures sometimes. Beautiful interaction between Fallout and Swiftspear is she survives while wiping the board.
Basically, the core shell of the deck includes full sets of Guide, Eidolon, Bolt, Chain, Rift, Spike, Price, and Blast. The rest is flex slots.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
The first Fireblast is almost indispensable to the deck's speed. There is no substitute for an instant-speed burst of 4 damage while tapped out. That said, a second copy has the potential to be a dead draw (especially if you're on 18-19 land, the majority of which are fetches). You can judge for yourself if it's worth the risk. For me, not playing fetches but having Lavamancer in the MD means I play the full four.
Price is almost always good for 4 or 6 unless you face a few very specific opponents (like the mirror). When it does 6, it just wins. When it does 4, it's not bad at all. When it does 0 or 2, it's awful. Choosing how many to play is a metagame call of "how often will this be dead, versus awesome." That's how I ended up with 3 MD and 1 SB. The dogma is to run 4 MD. I could see 2 MD, 2 SB being successful as well.
YMMV.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
4 Arid Mesa
4x Wooded Foothills
8x Mountain
4x Goblin Guide
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
3x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Fireblast
4x Price of Progress
2x Searing Blaze
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
3x Smash to Smithereens
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sulfuric Votrex
1x Searing Blaze
3x Volcanic Fallout
i know the main is 61 but i cant help it. i feel id either cut a blaze or land to amke it 60. land feels wrong with 4 blasts, lavamancer, and blaze main/sb. feel free to critique. just give a reason as to why to cut sonething or why to change a certain quantity.
As for Flame Rift, that tech predates the advent of Eidolon. Regardless, it was bad then, and it is bad now.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I agree with this. 19 lands is still fine. Many list run 19 land with 4 Fireblast. Overall I believe you will do well.
are they also running lavaman and blaze? bc the more of those i have the more i feel 20 is right. espcially with 12 spells in the main that need 2 or more mana. and possibly more out of the board and im not sure how easy it would be to recover after a fire blast for free with only 19 lands. In modern I run 19 but I don't Sac to lands for shard volley
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)