Any opinions on the following card that just got spoiled? Does it have a place in this deck?
The obvious comparison is Swiftspear. I think haste is better than the ability this card brings (most things you run into are small enough that they die to a single burn spell anyways), but maybe it acts as additional copies of Swiftspear if we want to play a build with more than 12 creatures and don't want to run Grim Lavamancer?
I didn't see this card spoiled yet...
I do believe Satyr Firedancer is a better creature and he don't get played.
I do think this *spoiled card* will be played in Frontier (or I'll be happy to use him in that format) because that format has limited options.
Do you really think that Firedancer is the better creature? This card not only costs less but also has a bigger, more relevant body. The ability is less powerful than Firedancer's, but a lot of the reason you're playing this card is because his body is great for a 1-drop in this deck.
Do you really think that Firedancer is the better creature? This card not only costs less but also has a bigger, more relevant body. The ability is less powerful than Firedancer's, but a lot of the reason you're playing this card is because his body is great for a 1-drop in this deck.
Firedancer allows you to bolt an opponent and firedancer deals 3 damage to a creature. Scar-mage, you need to bolt the creature and the creature gets -1/-1 counters (nothing happens to the opponent).
So please tell me again, why you think Scar-mage is better for Legacy Burn?
Do you really think that Firedancer is the better creature? This card not only costs less but also has a bigger, more relevant body. The ability is less powerful than Firedancer's, but a lot of the reason you're playing this card is because his body is great for a 1-drop in this deck.
Firedancer allows you to bolt an opponent and firedancer deals 3 damage to a creature. Scar-mage, you need to bolt the creature and the creature gets -1/-1 counters (nothing happens to the opponent).
So please tell me again, why you think Scar-mage is better for Legacy Burn?
Because he's a 1 drop that usually has 2 or 3 power?
Swiftspear allows you to bolt your opponent's face and do nothing to their creature. Or you bolt their creature and nothing happens to your opponent. Swiftspear is still a staple in most versions of this deck despite this. Granted, haste is probably better than spell-wither most of the time, but it's not like spell-wither is completely irrelevant.
You're mostly playing this creature because he is an efficient one-drop. His ability is just a small bonus you happen to get tacked on. Firedancer's ability is obviously better in most situations, but Firedancer costs 2 mana and is a 1/1, meaning it deals a lot less combat damage on average to your opponent.
I agree that Firedancer is better. Firedancer allows you to continue burning your opponent and rewards you for doing so by killing their creatures too. Scar-mage forces you to burn their creatures and puts -1/-1 counters on them instead of damage. It's an intersting card and will certainly be in RDW Standard decks, but it's not Legacy playable.
I don't understand why everybody thinks that Scar-Mage's ability forces you to burn creatures. You don't have to burn their creatures. Imagine the following card:
Monastery Slowspear - R
Creature - Human Monk
Prowess
1/2
We would still probably be discussing the above creature as a potential inclusion to the deck. This card is basically the above card with a small upside.
The merit of the card does not lie in its wither ability. The card's merit lies in the fact that he is a one-drop that has prowess. Besides Monastery Swiftspear, there are currently no other cards that have this trait. Now obviously Swiftspear is the better card, but there could be reason to run both. Just because Lava Spike is worse than Lightning Bolt doesn't mean we don't play Lava Spike anyways.
In my opinion, this card is better than Satyr Firedancer on the merits of his body alone. If you're in a creature heavy meta, your best options are Grim Lavamancer and then Searing Blood/Blaze. That's already a ton of cards that you could potentially add to your core, meaning Firedancer is never going to make the list. However, if you're in a meta where you need to push damage quickly, you run Swiftspear, but what is your next option? Flame Rift? Your choices here are a lot less clear cut, so maybe Slowspear with a small bonus makes the cut.
I agree that Firedancer is better. Firedancer allows you to continue burning your opponent and rewards you for doing so by killing their creatures too. Scar-mage forces you to burn their creatures and puts -1/-1 counters on them instead of damage. It's an intersting card and will certainly be in RDW Standard decks, but it's not Legacy playable.
I'm leaning towards this on Scar. His ability allows us to shrink fat creatures to slow opponent's clocks for us to get there, but our damage spells are mostly for faces and who knows if this will survive given that they can kill it in response. I would see this as a sideboard card in Legacy more than mainboard if at all. Modern might have a place for it because of Kitchen Finks.
There are Legacy Burn players that consider Monastery Swiftspear too many creatures and that it's definitely not worth playing in a creature heavy meta. You're advocating playing another creature for the sole reason that it's a bad version of Swiftspear. Sounds like a rather poor decision. The times when Swiftspear is good (ie. when you need to be fast), this guy doesn't do jack because it doesn't have Haste. Legacy Burn doesn't have room for 16 creatures, some players don't even think it has room for 12.
The reason to play the Scar-mage is its ability, and there's a creature with a better version of that ability: Satyr Firedancer. That's why Satyr Firedancer is better.
However, if you're in a meta where you need to push damage quickly, you run Swiftspear, but what is your next option? Flame Rift?
Legacy Burn doesn't have room for 16 creatures, some players don't even think it has room for 12.
Plenty of burn decks play 14 creatures (which seems to be the next most common number after 11/12). Look through lists that have put up results. If you are in a meta where creature removal is less necessary, being able to run six copies of Swiftspear instead of two copies of Swiftspear and two Grim Lavamancers is potentially an option.
The only real advantage I see to this card is getting past a large creature, like a goyf, WITHOUT losing your creature.
You would usually need to trade a creature and a burn spell to do this. Now the burn spell will shrink their creature during combat, so your creature lives through the block.
So I would say this is sideboard material, only against larger creature decks.
Legacy Burn doesn't have room for 16 creatures, some players don't even think it has room for 12.
Plenty of burn decks play 14 creatures (which seems to be the next most common number after 11/12). Look through lists that have put up results. If you are in a meta where creature removal is less necessary, being able to run six copies of Swiftspear instead of two copies of Swiftspear and two Grim Lavamancers is potentially an option.
I didn't say all players play 12 or less. I said some players don't even think it has room for 12. Is that false? A glance at MTGtop8 shows an average of 12.5 creatures in some sample of recent Legacy Burn decks. That's far closer to 12 than what you seem to be advocating for.
If you are in a meta where you don't need creature removal, Scar-mage is not functionally extra Swiftspears. In a fast meta, you want fast creatures, not slow ones. There is simply no room for Scar-mage. Firedancer has a better auxiliary ability and so does Grim Lavamancer. Outside of that ability, it's a slow creature that doesn't further your gameplan immediately.
You can find posts here of people complaining about how attacking for 1 with a Swiftspear on T1 and then playing Eidolon and attacking for 1 again feels bad. Your suggestion is that when people consider attacking for 1, playing Eidolon, then attacking for 1 again a kind of lackluster play, doing nothing, playing Eidolon, and then finally attacking for 1 is a desirable play? No. Scar-mage is terrible. I'd rather play Raging Goblin.
The only real advantage I see to this card is getting past a large creature, like a goyf, WITHOUT losing your creature.
You would usually need to trade a creature and a burn spell to do this. Now the burn spell will shrink their creature during combat, so your creature lives through the block.
So I would say this is sideboard material, only against larger creature decks.
That's a more reasonable use for it, but I'd rather just side out of Swiftspears and side in Burn spells and just race their big creatures with burn spells.
Sure you can play scar-mage. He might even become a budget option to Goblin Guide & Eidolon & Vexing Devil (I DO know 75% of the burn players might consider Scar-Mage over the Devil because they don't like the devil). But we have Hellspark Elemental sitting in the shadows (as a budget option).
I'm toying with a Frontier Burn deck; so I would believe that the Scar-Mage would be an awesome option in that format. just because he's a 1cc pump creature like swiftspear.
Hey all,
I'm finalizing my deck list for the SCG Worcester Open. I think I'm happy with the main deck, but need a little help with the sb. Here's my current list:
Not sure what the right call is on the BUG meta. Though, Legacy metas tend to be pretty wide open, so metagaming against a single deck isn't necessarily something you want to do. However, that being said, it would seem that running a set of Swiftspear with a couple of Lavamancer is a decent choice. This got 17th at the SCG Open this weekend:
Not a big fan of Barbarian Ring; dies to wasteland, doesn't cast fireblast and it's a nonbo with lavamancer
And while I like the Firecraft, not sure cutting Rift Bolt is the way to go.
Any chances Harsh Mentor would be playable? Seems good against jitte/fetchlands/top/deathrite (ALL of deathrite's ability)/etc
But not sure it's good enough to make the 75
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Looks promising. It triggers on fetches, which makes it a bit more consistent in getting minimum damage through. Shuts down Deathrite lifegain. Seems very good against Vial decks. The risk is that it just gets bolted/plowed/pushed and effectively does nothing. I don't think it's as good as Eidolon, but there's room between that and playable.
Not a big fan of Barbarian Ring; dies to wasteland, doesn't cast fireblast and it's a nonbo with lavamancer
And while I like the Firecraft, not sure cutting Rift Bolt is the way to go.
Agree with Barbarian Ring.
I do think cutting rift bolt or at best reduce the number of rift bolts is a good thing). Even though Rift Bolt seemed like a burn staple, it's also the slowest of the burn cards. And one of the worst if you are looking for a top draw for the win. I usually play 2 to 3 rift bolts.
Firecraft - I do have mix feelings with the card. I love it because it's like playing a critical sideboard card in the main deck. I hate it because it's 3 mana; 3 mana is really tough for burn because we have no draw/filter cards (no brainstorm or such).
I do think Firecraft is going to be an important burn spell for these coming months. I believe the new planeswalker is going to be a monster!
Any chances Harsh Mentor would be playable? Seems good against jitte/fetchlands/top/deathrite (ALL of deathrite's ability)/etc
But not sure it's good enough to make the 75
I want to like this guy. I do believe he might become a budget answer to Eidolon, since the card is going at 12 dollars. I don't see Harsh Mentor going higher then 2 dollars each. I don't see a big demand for him in Modern/Legacy/Vintage besides budget. Eidolon is far superior. Since Eidolon isn't legal in Frontier, Harsh Mentor would be perfect, but would his ability be effective or would he be a 2/2 red bear.
I think there is enough potential there to justify testing. It hits Miracles hard and might do enough residual damage to other decks by virtue of fetch triggers to warrant maindeck play. I could see cutting Grim and a couple flex spell slots to try it.
Been lurking this thread for a while, so I'll put my 2 cents in about Harsh Mentor. This card I see in the mainboard. Sure, the opponent can kill it before they activate their effects, but that's only and X amount of decks.
Swords to Plowshares: Miracles, Death and Taxes Fatal Push: Grixis Delver, 4 Color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver Abrupt Decay: 4 color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver, Food Chain, 4 color Loam, GB Loam Pox Punishing Fire: Lands, 4 color Loam Lightning Bolt: Grixis Delver, UR Delver, Burn
Any other Burn Spell: UR Delver, Burn
That's 11 decks That have the potential to kill Harsh Mentor before they activate any abilities. The decks that can do it on a consistent rate look to be Burn, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, BUG Delver, and BUG Control. They may be able to get rid of it, but they have to waste it on Harsh Mentor and still take the damage from Eidolon of the Great Revel. Harsh Mentor adds another brick in our wall which I feel warrants a spot in the mainboard. It applies extra pressure on the opponent, especially early game. Hell, I see Harsh mentor being played in UR Delver as well.
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I didn't see this card spoiled yet...
I do believe Satyr Firedancer is a better creature and he don't get played.
I do think this *spoiled card* will be played in Frontier (or I'll be happy to use him in that format) because that format has limited options.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Firedancer allows you to bolt an opponent and firedancer deals 3 damage to a creature. Scar-mage, you need to bolt the creature and the creature gets -1/-1 counters (nothing happens to the opponent).
So please tell me again, why you think Scar-mage is better for Legacy Burn?
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Because he's a 1 drop that usually has 2 or 3 power?
Swiftspear allows you to bolt your opponent's face and do nothing to their creature. Or you bolt their creature and nothing happens to your opponent. Swiftspear is still a staple in most versions of this deck despite this. Granted, haste is probably better than spell-wither most of the time, but it's not like spell-wither is completely irrelevant.
You're mostly playing this creature because he is an efficient one-drop. His ability is just a small bonus you happen to get tacked on. Firedancer's ability is obviously better in most situations, but Firedancer costs 2 mana and is a 1/1, meaning it deals a lot less combat damage on average to your opponent.
Monastery Slowspear - R
Creature - Human Monk
Prowess
1/2
We would still probably be discussing the above creature as a potential inclusion to the deck. This card is basically the above card with a small upside.
The merit of the card does not lie in its wither ability. The card's merit lies in the fact that he is a one-drop that has prowess. Besides Monastery Swiftspear, there are currently no other cards that have this trait. Now obviously Swiftspear is the better card, but there could be reason to run both. Just because Lava Spike is worse than Lightning Bolt doesn't mean we don't play Lava Spike anyways.
In my opinion, this card is better than Satyr Firedancer on the merits of his body alone. If you're in a creature heavy meta, your best options are Grim Lavamancer and then Searing Blood/Blaze. That's already a ton of cards that you could potentially add to your core, meaning Firedancer is never going to make the list. However, if you're in a meta where you need to push damage quickly, you run Swiftspear, but what is your next option? Flame Rift? Your choices here are a lot less clear cut, so maybe Slowspear with a small bonus makes the cut.
I'm leaning towards this on Scar. His ability allows us to shrink fat creatures to slow opponent's clocks for us to get there, but our damage spells are mostly for faces and who knows if this will survive given that they can kill it in response. I would see this as a sideboard card in Legacy more than mainboard if at all. Modern might have a place for it because of Kitchen Finks.
The reason to play the Scar-mage is its ability, and there's a creature with a better version of that ability: Satyr Firedancer. That's why Satyr Firedancer is better.
Yeah. It's Flame Rift.
Plenty of burn decks play 14 creatures (which seems to be the next most common number after 11/12). Look through lists that have put up results. If you are in a meta where creature removal is less necessary, being able to run six copies of Swiftspear instead of two copies of Swiftspear and two Grim Lavamancers is potentially an option.
You would usually need to trade a creature and a burn spell to do this. Now the burn spell will shrink their creature during combat, so your creature lives through the block.
So I would say this is sideboard material, only against larger creature decks.
I didn't say all players play 12 or less. I said some players don't even think it has room for 12. Is that false? A glance at MTGtop8 shows an average of 12.5 creatures in some sample of recent Legacy Burn decks. That's far closer to 12 than what you seem to be advocating for.
If you are in a meta where you don't need creature removal, Scar-mage is not functionally extra Swiftspears. In a fast meta, you want fast creatures, not slow ones. There is simply no room for Scar-mage. Firedancer has a better auxiliary ability and so does Grim Lavamancer. Outside of that ability, it's a slow creature that doesn't further your gameplan immediately.
You can find posts here of people complaining about how attacking for 1 with a Swiftspear on T1 and then playing Eidolon and attacking for 1 again feels bad. Your suggestion is that when people consider attacking for 1, playing Eidolon, then attacking for 1 again a kind of lackluster play, doing nothing, playing Eidolon, and then finally attacking for 1 is a desirable play? No. Scar-mage is terrible. I'd rather play Raging Goblin.
That's a more reasonable use for it, but I'd rather just side out of Swiftspears and side in Burn spells and just race their big creatures with burn spells.
Sure you can play scar-mage. He might even become a budget option to Goblin Guide & Eidolon & Vexing Devil (I DO know 75% of the burn players might consider Scar-Mage over the Devil because they don't like the devil). But we have Hellspark Elemental sitting in the shadows (as a budget option).
I'm toying with a Frontier Burn deck; so I would believe that the Scar-Mage would be an awesome option in that format. just because he's a 1cc pump creature like swiftspear.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I'm finalizing my deck list for the SCG Worcester Open. I think I'm happy with the main deck, but need a little help with the sb. Here's my current list:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Rift Bolt
3 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
12 Mountain
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Leyline of the Void
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Searing Blaze
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
I have 3 Ensnaring Bridge I'd like to work into the sb somehow, just not sure how to rearrange it. Suggestions?
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Lands (19)
9 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
1 Searing Blaze
4 Chain Lightning
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Lava Spike
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Searing Blood
3 Smash to Smithereens
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
And while I like the Firecraft, not sure cutting Rift Bolt is the way to go.
Any chances Harsh Mentor would be playable? Seems good against jitte/fetchlands/top/deathrite (ALL of deathrite's ability)/etc
But not sure it's good enough to make the 75
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Artifacts
Sensei's Top
Jitte
Aether Vial
Creatures
Deathrite
Mother of Runes
Scavenging Ooze
Stoneforge Mystic
Griselbrand
Quiron Ranger
Wirewood
Knight of Reliquary
Tasigur
Endbringer
Walking Ballista
Lands
Fetches
Wasteland
Rishadan Port
Karakas
Thespian Stage
Inkmoth Nexus
Mishra's Factory
Eye of Ugin
Maze of Ith
Hard to quantify how much average damage we're talking. It seems pretty mediocre against some decks.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Agree with Barbarian Ring.
I do think cutting rift bolt or at best reduce the number of rift bolts is a good thing). Even though Rift Bolt seemed like a burn staple, it's also the slowest of the burn cards. And one of the worst if you are looking for a top draw for the win. I usually play 2 to 3 rift bolts.
Firecraft - I do have mix feelings with the card. I love it because it's like playing a critical sideboard card in the main deck. I hate it because it's 3 mana; 3 mana is really tough for burn because we have no draw/filter cards (no brainstorm or such).
I do think Firecraft is going to be an important burn spell for these coming months. I believe the new planeswalker is going to be a monster!
I want to like this guy. I do believe he might become a budget answer to Eidolon, since the card is going at 12 dollars. I don't see Harsh Mentor going higher then 2 dollars each. I don't see a big demand for him in Modern/Legacy/Vintage besides budget. Eidolon is far superior. Since Eidolon isn't legal in Frontier, Harsh Mentor would be perfect, but would his ability be effective or would he be a 2/2 red bear.
Awesome list... but the problem with him (I think you know this too) the opponent could kill the creature before activating the ability.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Swords to Plowshares: Miracles, Death and Taxes
Fatal Push: Grixis Delver, 4 Color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver
Abrupt Decay: 4 color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver, Food Chain, 4 color Loam, GB Loam Pox
Punishing Fire: Lands, 4 color Loam
Lightning Bolt: Grixis Delver, UR Delver, Burn
Any other Burn Spell: UR Delver, Burn
That's 11 decks That have the potential to kill Harsh Mentor before they activate any abilities. The decks that can do it on a consistent rate look to be Burn, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, BUG Delver, and BUG Control. They may be able to get rid of it, but they have to waste it on Harsh Mentor and still take the damage from Eidolon of the Great Revel. Harsh Mentor adds another brick in our wall which I feel warrants a spot in the mainboard. It applies extra pressure on the opponent, especially early game. Hell, I see Harsh mentor being played in UR Delver as well.