The reason he was at 7 was he dropped a 3rd Pillar effect on the table, which you would have seen if you had read the post. Now every spell except FIreblast hits us for 6. If I don't have Fireblast, it will take 3 spells to kill him, but that would kill me. Our deck doesn't have a lot of 4's unless you're running Firecraft. It would have been really easy for me to try and get the kill, then just die at instant speed.
Seems like a pretty straight forward list, with DnT being so prevalent I'd suggest cutting a price and a blast for Searing Blaze main. Just my thoughts.
I was wondering about that as well. However, less than 4 Price feels like it's iffy given the current spate of relevant decks. Maybe I should run 2/2 splits of Fireblast and Searing Blaze main and side?
It would have been really easy for me to try and get the kill, then just die at instant speed.
I think you missed the point. You're somehow trying to say that Flame Rift was clutch in this spot, when it was just about the worst thing you could cast vs any other burn spell. You were just in such a good position it didn't matter.
I want some combination of Top, Lavamancer, Barbarian Ring, + fetches, since those cards have a lot of play to them
and I love the versatility.
Was thinking of going up on fetches past 8 to better support Lavamancer, Ring, and Top , but then the Rings are too painful?
Is Ensnaring Bridge pretty much just always better than Ashen Rider? It's great to S&T into play, or just hard cast.
I'd be running Rider in sideboard for budget replacement for S&T scenarios.
Your list looks fine. Though, most lists do not run Barb Ring. I tried it myself, but it conflicts with Fireblast and often can't be used because of Grim Lavamancer.
If you want Top (I agree it's good) and you run Swiftspears, I'd consider running a second Top to live the dream of chaining Tops once in a blue moon. This could take the place of the 4th Fireblast, as Fireblast tends to be a late game card anyway and the two Tops will help you find one. Even having one means you can play it every turn for +1/+1 per Swiftspear, and adding a second greatly helps your chances of finding one (see link in sig). Anyway, my 2c.
Seems like a pretty straight forward list, with DnT being so prevalent I'd suggest cutting a price and a blast for Searing Blaze main. Just my thoughts.
I was wondering about that as well. However, less than 4 Price feels like it's iffy given the current spate of relevant decks. Maybe I should run 2/2 splits of Fireblast and Searing Blaze main and side?
This list looks pretty good and very close to standard (though, personally, I find Barbarian Rings to generally not be great, especially if you run GLM). I definitely wouldn't cut below 3 Fireblast: it cuts through a lot of things, is a reliably large chunk of damage, and powers GLM. Going to 3 PoP might make sense. However, your GLM is really strong versus D&T, and you have an SB that's pretty strong against them overall. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even worry too much about it.
I want some combination of Top, Lavamancer, Barbarian Ring, + fetches, since those cards have a lot of play to them
and I love the versatility.
Was thinking of going up on fetches past 8 to better support Lavamancer, Ring, and Top , but then the Rings are too painful?
Is Ensnaring Bridge pretty much just always better than Ashen Rider? It's great to S&T into play, or just hard cast.
I'd be running Rider in sideboard for budget replacement for S&T scenarios.
Your list looks fine. Though, most lists do not run Barb Ring. I tried it myself, but it conflicts with Fireblast and often can't be used because of Grim Lavamancer.
If you want Top (I agree it's good) and you run Swiftspears, I'd consider running a second Top to live the dream of chaining Tops once in a blue moon. This could take the place of the 4th Fireblast, as Fireblast tends to be a late game card anyway and the two Tops will help you find one. Even having one means you can play it every turn for +1/+1 per Swiftspear, and adding a second greatly helps your chances of finding one (see link in sig). Anyway, my 2c.
Like I said above, Barbarian Rings are not all that great, and really don't perform fantastically with GLM in my experience. I'd rather have more Mountains, and put them in my graveyard with Fireblast than worry about drawing a Ring when I can't fire it.
SDT I still consider overrated, but a singleton probably isn't bad. I have a weird feeling about seeing 1 Vortex and 1 Firecraft (it feels indecisive more than deliberate) but it's not going to wreck anything.
Overall, nothing really wrong with this list either (though personally, I'd prefer more StS in the SB). Ashen Rider is very solid versus S&T, but sadly it's really specific. Bridge has play against multiple opponents, which is its main advantage.
Fair enough. I'll run it out there and see how I do. The Barbarian Rings are admittedly a bit of a test, but I'm hoping that I drew them when I don't draw my Grim Lavamancers and vice versa. Thanks for the help, everyone!
Idk if this primer is just outdated but I've found that searing blaze is easily one of our most powerful and efficient cards. Maybe my meta is just more creature-heavy. Also I disagree with the primer that four fireblasts are required. I only run 3. Last thing u wanna see w/ this deck is a hand w/ multiple fireblasts. Even running into a second one in the same game can prove problematic in my experience.
I've found that grim lavamancer almost always eats some kind of removal. Same w/ most creatures in the deck. If I power thru with a few creatures, I'll usually end up w/ a sole goblin guide on the field. The chances of running into a scenario where lavamancer and barb ring actually do counteract each other has been extremely rare for me. The uncountable 2 damage on the other hand has come in clutch many a time on the opponent's delver or deathrite. That can be said for both lavamancer and barb ring. I don't see myself taking either out of my build any time soon
On another note, I remember seeing Reid Duke rocking a Black Vise in one of the featured legacy games at Eternal Weekend a few weeks back. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Duke's list. I've only found a random GPT list with a 1-of in the side.
Anyone using Vise out of the side? What matchups does it come in for?
Sure man do your thing. No one is trying to convince you of anything we're just sharing our experiences with you.
nah I know, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I appreciate all the different perspectives I see here. I'm also just sharing my experiences, no knock on anyone else's opinions.
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currently playing
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG WUBR Affinity WUBR x Eldrazi Tron x UG Tropical Merfolk UG
Idk if this primer is just outdated but I've found that searing blaze is easily one of our most powerful and efficient cards.
@evilford the primer was last updated 3.5 years ago, so yeah it's a good starting point but probably doesn't cover our newest developments. Searing Blazoods and Searing Bloozes are great, and esp. with the uptick in D&T they're definitely worth a few maindeck slots if you can find the room. My list doesn't have Swiftspears, so Blazes and Tops take their spot in my list.
Round 1: Miracles 1-1-1
Sideboard: -4 Price, -3 Searing Blaze, +3 Exquisite, +1 Vortex, +1 Vise, +2 Smash
Plan: Sideing out the more conditional burn and creature oriented stuff for the Firecrafts and some extra tools. Vise T1 seemed like it could be a pretty good play.
Round 2: Elves 2-0
Sideboard: -4 Spike, -1 Vortex, +2 Pillar, +3 Bridge
Plan: Took out some of the less interactive stuff for more Pillar effects and Bridge to hold off their board.
Round 3: Death & Taxes 2-0
Sideboard: -4 Spike, -3 Price, +3 Bridge, +1 Vortex, +3 Smash
Plan: Similar to Elves matchup, but instead of cutting Vortex I brought in the extra copy for Batterskulls and Jitte, as well as the Smashes. Shaved price, since it was more conditional.
Round 4: Burn 2-1
Sideboard: -4 Price, -1 Vortex, +3 Exquisite, +2 Pillar
Plan: Price does absolutely nothing and Vortex seemed like a liability. Brought in as many damage spells as I had available. Pillar seemed like it could be managable to setup a lock.
Pillar seemed like it could be managable to setup a lock.
Was this the thread where Pillar in the mirror caused a bit of debate a few weeks ago? I'm still trying to wrap my head around this idea in the context of the Burn mirror. The initial game start and early tempo of a mirror is often just a die roll, so sometimes the game isn't going your way and you need cards to swing it back. As in tennis, you only win by breaking serve. Pillar does not seem to fit the bill.
At first glance Pillar seems like a red Standstill: a winmore card. Just as you wouldn't cast Standstill with an empty board facing a newly-reanimated beater, why would you ever cast Pillar if you were already behind? In the Burn mirror, Pillar acts like Flame Rift by effectively making everyone start at a lower life total: if you were behind before Pillar, you're still closer to 0 than the opp after Pillar.
I'm probably missing something. You mentioned you could set up a lock using Pillar. How would that go in a game where you were at even or at lower life, and why couldn't the opp. then use your Pillar against you? I'd imagine you need some cards that work well with Pillar, and that you'd expect your burn opponent to not have. Thanks!
Die roll, maybe. More so who has the better 7, and draws more Burn. Insofar I think being on the draw in the mirror might be better. There are hands that they will have that make this backfire, but in general, I think the approach is to be the last person with a creature on board and then use Eidolon or Pillar to essentially lock them out. In other words, if they do nothing they die to your creature, if they do something they put themselves in range of instant speed burn. Admittedly, Pillar isn't as good as Eidolon in this respect, because it isn't a creature. But it's better than Price, and more manageable than Vortex.
I'm looking to get into this deck as my first legacy deck. I think i have a grasp of the basics and average meta of the format but i never really "played" legacy in a tournament apart from MTGO Tournament Practise (Played ANT Storm there).
As i'm on a bit of a budget but really love legacy as a format i figured Burn would be a decent place to start so i can play, get more in depth knowledge of the format and then maybe pick up another deck. But that is far in the future for now. Here is the list i am building:
What are your opinions on this? The meta will play in has many Shardless BUG and various Delver/D&T Lists. I know Price of Progress is not good against D&T but my feeling tells me it's too good to drop because of one deck. Would love some feedback, looking forward to playing Legacy!
The common decks in your meta would benefit from more 2-for-1 plays (Searing Blaze). You might try swapping the maindeck Firecraft for a sideboard Blaze if playtesting justifies it.
Just checking since I play a lot of modern but don't know the legacy meta very well, do we play eidolon. And also at this point 3 lavamancer seems correct? (Unlike modern where it is usually a one-of)
Why wouldn't you play four RIFT bolt I feel like one GP player did well with three and now it's a thing; ITS NOT ; PLAY FOUR (trust me I've been playing this deck for 7 years)
Idk if this primer is just outdated but I've found that searing blaze is easily one of our most powerful and efficient cards. Maybe my meta is just more creature-heavy. Also I disagree with the primer that four fireblasts are required. I only run 3. Last thing u wanna see w/ this deck is a hand w/ multiple fireblasts. Even running into a second one in the same game can prove problematic in my experience.
I've found that grim lavamancer almost always eats some kind of removal. Same w/ most creatures in the deck. If I power thru with a few creatures, I'll usually end up w/ a sole goblin guide on the field. The chances of running into a scenario where lavamancer and barb ring actually do counteract each other has been extremely rare for me. The uncountable 2 damage on the other hand has come in clutch many a time on the opponent's delver or deathrite. That can be said for both lavamancer and barb ring. I don't see myself taking either out of my build any time soon
@evilford the primer was last updated 3.5 years ago, so yeah it's a good starting point but probably doesn't cover our newest developments. Searing Blazoods and Searing Bloozes are great, and esp. with the uptick in D&T they're definitely worth a few maindeck slots if you can find the room. My list doesn't have Swiftspears, so Blazes and Tops take their spot in my list.
Indeed, the primer is a bit antiquated. Still, it's mostly on-point.
I use Searing Blood because I have a no-fetch build. These are known quantities and thrive in certain metas. I recommend 2-4 copies between the MD and SB.
Regarding Fireblast, it's an interesting question. A second Fireblast can be a dead card but, in practice, a Fireblast significantly increases the chances of a turn 3-4 kill, because the bottleneck is usually available mana rather than available cards. Thus, I'll take the slightly increased chance of drawing two that comes with running a fully playset, because it also gives a significantly increased chance of drawing one.
As for Ring, I find its utility to be marginal and infrequent, while it is at times very harmful to myself (the mirror). Thus it doesn't get played.
GLM may frequently eat removal, but there are games where it simply takes over. In practice, "dies to removal" is not a reason to avoid a card, especially when it costs only 1 mana (the same or less than most removal) and has tremendous upside.
On another note, I remember seeing Reid Duke rocking a Black Vise in one of the featured legacy games at Eternal Weekend a few weeks back. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Duke's list. I've only found a random GPT list with a 1-of in the side.
Anyone using Vise out of the side? What matchups does it come in for?
I guess a turn 1 Black Vice on the play can do 3-5 damage, but it feels really situational. There aren't that many decks where I feel it's totally commanding. I can think of matches where The Rack could do a number on the opponent and close out a game, but I wouldn't play that either. We probably need not only the decklist, but the meta.
Pillar seemed like it could be managable to setup a lock.
Was this the thread where Pillar in the mirror caused a bit of debate a few weeks ago? I'm still trying to wrap my head around this idea in the context of the Burn mirror. The initial game start and early tempo of a mirror is often just a die roll, so sometimes the game isn't going your way and you need cards to swing it back. As in tennis, you only win by breaking serve. Pillar does not seem to fit the bill.
At first glance Pillar seems like a red Standstill: a winmore card. Just as you wouldn't cast Standstill with an empty board facing a newly-reanimated beater, why would you ever cast Pillar if you were already behind? In the Burn mirror, Pillar acts like Flame Rift by effectively making everyone start at a lower life total: if you were behind before Pillar, you're still closer to 0 than the opp after Pillar.
I'm probably missing something. You mentioned you could set up a lock using Pillar. How would that go in a game where you were at even or at lower life, and why couldn't the opp. then use your Pillar against you? I'd imagine you need some cards that work well with Pillar, and that you'd expect your burn opponent to not have. Thanks!
Die roll, maybe. More so who has the better 7, and draws more Burn. Insofar I think being on the draw in the mirror might be better. There are hands that they will have that make this backfire, but in general, I think the approach is to be the last person with a creature on board and then use Eidolon or Pillar to essentially lock them out. In other words, if they do nothing they die to your creature, if they do something they put themselves in range of instant speed burn. Admittedly, Pillar isn't as good as Eidolon in this respect, because it isn't a creature. But it's better than Price, and more manageable than Vortex.
Realistically, against Burn, you never want to be losing life points to your own spells. The mirror is why I don't play fetches.
While unremovable, permanent sources of damage can be really good in the mirror, but Flame Rift and Pillar are not my favorite cards here. And Cursed Scroll is a bit slow for the match.
A GLM that goes unremoved for 2 turns can win, but it's pretty unlikely.
Eidolon at least has the potential to attack. And that matters, because Eidolon onto an open table will do at least 2 damage to the opponent (when they play a blocker, remove it, or get attacked by it).
I'm looking to get into this deck as my first legacy deck. I think i have a grasp of the basics and average meta of the format but i never really "played" legacy in a tournament apart from MTGO Tournament Practise (Played ANT Storm there).
As i'm on a bit of a budget but really love legacy as a format i figured Burn would be a decent place to start so i can play, get more in depth knowledge of the format and then maybe pick up another deck. But that is far in the future for now. Here is the list i am building:
What are your opinions on this? The meta will play in has many Shardless BUG and various Delver/D&T Lists. I know Price of Progress is not good against D&T but my feeling tells me it's too good to drop because of one deck. Would love some feedback, looking forward to playing Legacy!
The common decks in your meta would benefit from more 2-for-1 plays (Searing Blaze). You might try swapping the maindeck Firecraft for a sideboard Blaze if playtesting justifies it.
Just checking since I play a lot of modern but don't know the legacy meta very well, do we play eidolon. And also at this point 3 lavamancer seems correct? (Unlike modern where it is usually a one-of)
Why wouldn't you play four RIFT bolt I feel like one GP player did well with three and now it's a thing; ITS NOT ; PLAY FOUR (trust me I've been playing this deck for 7 years)
Your build looks fine, though I would swap the Firecraft for the last Rift Bolt, as said. Your selection is really strong versus your meta otherwise, with 2 GLM and 2 Blaze MD, and another 2 Blaze and a Fallout in the SB. You should be in good shape.
So (like many players I see here), I am using Burn as a stepping stone into Legacy... I already had most of the cards and I've always been a red player, with lots of experience playing burn and sligh decks. Seemed like a good fit and a way to learn the format.
I put together a pretty standard list (similar to most of the recent ones posted here). The thing I'm looking for is a bit of sideboarding advice. I have most typical Burn sideboard cards at my disposal, but is someone able to either provide information on what to use in matchups, or at the very least point me in the direction of some good resources (or previous posts!). I've been slogging through this thread to try to soak up information, but I still have a ways to go and was hoping to play in my first tournament this weekend.
One thing I'd point out is that I'm not only interested in what to bring in for certain matchups, but more importantly what comes out for those sideboard choices!! So often people focus on what you need to add, but the cuts are almost never mentioned. That would be a huge help!
Thanks in advance, look forward to learning as much as I can about this format!
The reason he was at 7 was he dropped a 3rd Pillar effect on the table, which you would have seen if you had read the post. Now every spell except FIreblast hits us for 6. If I don't have Fireblast, it will take 3 spells to kill him, but that would kill me. Our deck doesn't have a lot of 4's unless you're running Firecraft. It would have been really easy for me to try and get the kill, then just die at instant speed.
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
Enchantments (2)
2 Sulfuric Vortex
Instants (12)
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
Lands (20)
2 Arid Mesa
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
4 Searing Blaze
4 Smash to Smithereens
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
RIP Karn EDH
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I think you missed the point. You're somehow trying to say that Flame Rift was clutch in this spot, when it was just about the worst thing you could cast vs any other burn spell. You were just in such a good position it didn't matter.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
A couple of questions.
Is there anything inherently just wrong with this list?
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Goblin Guide
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Monastery Swiftspear
Instant (11)
4x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Price of Progress
Enchantment (1)
1x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Barbarian Ring
4x Bloodstained Mire
10x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (13)
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
1x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Ashen Rider
3x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Pyroblast
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Searing Blaze
1x Smash to Smithereens
2x Volcanic Fallout
I want some combination of Top, Lavamancer, Barbarian Ring, + fetches, since those cards have a lot of play to them
and I love the versatility.
Was thinking of going up on fetches past 8 to better support Lavamancer, Ring, and Top , but then the Rings are too painful?
Is Ensnaring Bridge pretty much just always better than Ashen Rider? It's great to S&T into play, or just hard cast.
I'd be running Rider in sideboard for budget replacement for S&T scenarios.
Legacy: RUG Delver
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
This list looks pretty good and very close to standard (though, personally, I find Barbarian Rings to generally not be great, especially if you run GLM). I definitely wouldn't cut below 3 Fireblast: it cuts through a lot of things, is a reliably large chunk of damage, and powers GLM. Going to 3 PoP might make sense. However, your GLM is really strong versus D&T, and you have an SB that's pretty strong against them overall. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even worry too much about it.
Like I said above, Barbarian Rings are not all that great, and really don't perform fantastically with GLM in my experience. I'd rather have more Mountains, and put them in my graveyard with Fireblast than worry about drawing a Ring when I can't fire it.
SDT I still consider overrated, but a singleton probably isn't bad. I have a weird feeling about seeing 1 Vortex and 1 Firecraft (it feels indecisive more than deliberate) but it's not going to wreck anything.
Overall, nothing really wrong with this list either (though personally, I'd prefer more StS in the SB). Ashen Rider is very solid versus S&T, but sadly it's really specific. Bridge has play against multiple opponents, which is its main advantage.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
RIP Karn EDH
Anyone using Vise out of the side? What matchups does it come in for?
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
nah I know, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I appreciate all the different perspectives I see here. I'm also just sharing my experiences, no knock on anyone else's opinions.
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
@evilford the primer was last updated 3.5 years ago, so yeah it's a good starting point but probably doesn't cover our newest developments. Searing Blazoods and Searing Bloozes are great, and esp. with the uptick in D&T they're definitely worth a few maindeck slots if you can find the room. My list doesn't have Swiftspears, so Blazes and Tops take their spot in my list.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Monastery Swiftspear
Spells (29)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
1 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
11 Mountain
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Black Vise
Round 1: Miracles 1-1-1
Sideboard: -4 Price, -3 Searing Blaze, +3 Exquisite, +1 Vortex, +1 Vise, +2 Smash
Plan: Sideing out the more conditional burn and creature oriented stuff for the Firecrafts and some extra tools. Vise T1 seemed like it could be a pretty good play.
Round 2: Elves 2-0
Sideboard: -4 Spike, -1 Vortex, +2 Pillar, +3 Bridge
Plan: Took out some of the less interactive stuff for more Pillar effects and Bridge to hold off their board.
Round 3: Death & Taxes 2-0
Sideboard: -4 Spike, -3 Price, +3 Bridge, +1 Vortex, +3 Smash
Plan: Similar to Elves matchup, but instead of cutting Vortex I brought in the extra copy for Batterskulls and Jitte, as well as the Smashes. Shaved price, since it was more conditional.
Round 4: Burn 2-1
Sideboard: -4 Price, -1 Vortex, +3 Exquisite, +2 Pillar
Plan: Price does absolutely nothing and Vortex seemed like a liability. Brought in as many damage spells as I had available. Pillar seemed like it could be managable to setup a lock.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Was this the thread where Pillar in the mirror caused a bit of debate a few weeks ago? I'm still trying to wrap my head around this idea in the context of the Burn mirror. The initial game start and early tempo of a mirror is often just a die roll, so sometimes the game isn't going your way and you need cards to swing it back. As in tennis, you only win by breaking serve. Pillar does not seem to fit the bill.
At first glance Pillar seems like a red Standstill: a winmore card. Just as you wouldn't cast Standstill with an empty board facing a newly-reanimated beater, why would you ever cast Pillar if you were already behind? In the Burn mirror, Pillar acts like Flame Rift by effectively making everyone start at a lower life total: if you were behind before Pillar, you're still closer to 0 than the opp after Pillar.
I'm probably missing something. You mentioned you could set up a lock using Pillar. How would that go in a game where you were at even or at lower life, and why couldn't the opp. then use your Pillar against you? I'd imagine you need some cards that work well with Pillar, and that you'd expect your burn opponent to not have. Thanks!
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I'm looking to get into this deck as my first legacy deck. I think i have a grasp of the basics and average meta of the format but i never really "played" legacy in a tournament apart from MTGO Tournament Practise (Played ANT Storm there).
As i'm on a bit of a budget but really love legacy as a format i figured Burn would be a decent place to start so i can play, get more in depth knowledge of the format and then maybe pick up another deck. But that is far in the future for now. Here is the list i am building:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountains
Instants:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
1 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Lava Spike
3 Rift Bolt
Enchantments:
2 Sulfuric Vortex
Creatures:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the great revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pithing Needle
2 Exquisite Firecraft
1 Volcanic Fallout
What are your opinions on this? The meta will play in has many Shardless BUG and various Delver/D&T Lists. I know Price of Progress is not good against D&T but my feeling tells me it's too good to drop because of one deck. Would love some feedback, looking forward to playing Legacy!
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Indeed, the primer is a bit antiquated. Still, it's mostly on-point.
I use Searing Blood because I have a no-fetch build. These are known quantities and thrive in certain metas. I recommend 2-4 copies between the MD and SB.
Regarding Fireblast, it's an interesting question. A second Fireblast can be a dead card but, in practice, a Fireblast significantly increases the chances of a turn 3-4 kill, because the bottleneck is usually available mana rather than available cards. Thus, I'll take the slightly increased chance of drawing two that comes with running a fully playset, because it also gives a significantly increased chance of drawing one.
As for Ring, I find its utility to be marginal and infrequent, while it is at times very harmful to myself (the mirror). Thus it doesn't get played.
GLM may frequently eat removal, but there are games where it simply takes over. In practice, "dies to removal" is not a reason to avoid a card, especially when it costs only 1 mana (the same or less than most removal) and has tremendous upside.
I guess a turn 1 Black Vice on the play can do 3-5 damage, but it feels really situational. There aren't that many decks where I feel it's totally commanding. I can think of matches where The Rack could do a number on the opponent and close out a game, but I wouldn't play that either. We probably need not only the decklist, but the meta.
Realistically, against Burn, you never want to be losing life points to your own spells. The mirror is why I don't play fetches.
While unremovable, permanent sources of damage can be really good in the mirror, but Flame Rift and Pillar are not my favorite cards here. And Cursed Scroll is a bit slow for the match.
A GLM that goes unremoved for 2 turns can win, but it's pretty unlikely.
Eidolon at least has the potential to attack. And that matters, because Eidolon onto an open table will do at least 2 damage to the opponent (when they play a blocker, remove it, or get attacked by it).
Your build looks fine, though I would swap the Firecraft for the last Rift Bolt, as said. Your selection is really strong versus your meta otherwise, with 2 GLM and 2 Blaze MD, and another 2 Blaze and a Fallout in the SB. You should be in good shape.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
So (like many players I see here), I am using Burn as a stepping stone into Legacy... I already had most of the cards and I've always been a red player, with lots of experience playing burn and sligh decks. Seemed like a good fit and a way to learn the format.
I put together a pretty standard list (similar to most of the recent ones posted here). The thing I'm looking for is a bit of sideboarding advice. I have most typical Burn sideboard cards at my disposal, but is someone able to either provide information on what to use in matchups, or at the very least point me in the direction of some good resources (or previous posts!). I've been slogging through this thread to try to soak up information, but I still have a ways to go and was hoping to play in my first tournament this weekend.
One thing I'd point out is that I'm not only interested in what to bring in for certain matchups, but more importantly what comes out for those sideboard choices!! So often people focus on what you need to add, but the cuts are almost never mentioned. That would be a huge help!
Thanks in advance, look forward to learning as much as I can about this format!