Has anyone talked about Insolent Neonate? It looks similar to Needle Drop, but I feel like the body can potentially get in 2-3 damage.
I feel like I'd sooner play Mogg Fanatic again, honestly. He'll get in for just as much attack damage, plus deal another point without requiring you to discard another card from your hand.
Also, Mogg Fanatic has history. That's a nice perk, and makes it a classier play.
If only combat damage still used the stack. At this point, despite any potential classiness, I'd much rather run Swiftspear than Fanatic, and there's no room for both. Interesting thought exercise as to whether my thoughts would change if combat damage used the stack. I don't think so.
P.S. Another blast from the past: Cave-In. If only we weren't a deck full of */2s these days.
You're probably all right, but I was just talking about relative to Insolent Neonate.
Incidentally, I know people here love SDT (which I still disagree with), but research shows that a while back, Brainstorm was used. It's infinitely better than SDT or Jet, probably sufficiently to overcome any concerns with playing a Volcanic Island. Just food for thought.
Yeah, if forced to choose between Fanatic and Neonate I'd choose Fanatic too!
Gonna nibble a bit on the food for thought.
My first choice for a splash would still be for Taigas to get rid of problematic artifacts and enchantments. Despite Brainstorm being much more powerful than Magma Jet, it has similar issues of requiring more slots due to its 1-shot nature. We can look at how other decks use Brainstorm, and if we have similar needs.
Burn doesn't need any help in the tempo department (the way Delver tempo decks use Brainstorm), so that's a pretty short discussion.
Control decks like Miracles have about a dozen slots dedicated to library manipulation. They can afford to do this because their cards like Jace, Terminus, Counterbalance, and Mentor are so powerful. They run fewer business cards, and then run a ton of library manipulation to find the right answer. However, we can't afford to run fewer business spells because our spells are weaker. Instead of a Counterbalance that could foil countless Bolts, we just have Bolts. Therefore we can't afford to dilute our deck with tons of cantrips, nor can we afford to spend a ton of mana to cast cantrips. If I had 1 mana to spend, I'd usually rather Lava Spike someone than durdle about with Brainstorm (assuming that Brainstorm would replace the relatively unpopular Lava Spike), even if it draws me Bolt+Mountain+Guide. Sure that Brainstorm would have drawn me into two business spells, but so often maximizing damage per mana is the way to win, and Brainstorm gives 0 damage.
Counterpoint time. Doesn't Top suffer from these problems? Sure, it requires mana to use, and it takes up slots. I think of Top like many decks think of Sylvan Library: not a tempo play for optimizing turns 2-3, but rather an endurance tool for better viability in grindy games. All this combines to mean that Top needs fewer slots, you're more likely to see it in later turns rather than have it clog up an opener, and you're more likely to have the extra mana to use it as you enter the late game.
I could see a small blue splash for Brainstorm and Delver working in Burn. However, I'd still prefer to run Green for answers like Krosan Grip if I were going to experiement with a splash. Ultimately, I find the consistency of mono-Red "good enough" that I'm not sorely tempted by either option.
I might prefer the options of Destructive Revelry and Krosan Grip, but having 1 mana removal is nice too until Counterbalance happens. Chill's a pain, but it's not often seen in larger events (compare to Counterbalance), and we can afford to target lesser annoyances when our spells further our gameplan.
I don't like splashing either color just to get enchantment hate (I'm copying and pasting this upcoming spiel from my tappedout decklist btw). Not only do you give up percentage points against DNT/MUD/Eldrazi (decks you want to bring D-rev/Wear/tear in against) due to Wasteland, you also give up points against any random deck running Wasteland that you don't even bring D-rev in against.
I was playtesting my Grixis Delver deck (yeah, I've been taking a break from playing burn) against a burn player who ran the Revelry splash package and there were a few games I won because he got mana screwed after I wasted his Taiga (In those scenarios, he naturally drew it and needed to play it in order to cast his spells on time). In addition, the 1 extra damage you get from Smash to Smithereens is relevant and was the difference between victory and defeat against MUD for me at least one time. As a result, I've decided to write off problematic enchantments (Leyline of Sanctity isn't one of them) as unwinnable because you lose too much against the rest of the field trying to beat said enchantments.
Chill isn't even too bad as you can still blow it up with Red Elemental Blast. Heck, my deck doesn't run REB and I still beat Shardless BUG players that have played that card against me anyway. Enchantments like Leyline and Chill constrict my options to the point where my window for punting games via incorrect decisions becomes very small or even nonexistant since they slow me down so much. I've faced both cards enough to where I'm not even worried about playing against either enchantment at this point to be honest.
TL;DR: The best solution IMO is to not worry about it as long as the only available solutions involve making your manabase worse (if Wizards ever prints mono-red enchantment hate though that's subject to change lol). I even have a song to help you with that if needed lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD6AfcoG4o8
GLM, Searing B., and StS generally mess them up pretty well, but it's not an easy fight.
I saw a few players actually use this at GP columbus, It's actually a fairly nice catch-all outside the DNT matchup, especially against Enchantress. The problem is that it's too expensive, however.
My LGS is finally doing Legacy once a month and I'm going to take Burn. We're playing for a FOW. Anyway, I have no idea what the meta will be since this is the first event they're having. I have a feeling I might face a few Burn mirrors. Any lists you would recommend? Thanks!
I think winning the mirror is less about having good anti-Burn cards in the SB than having not-dead cards in the SB. Creatures and mutual damage are pretty dead in this matchup, and PoP tends to be pretty bad as well. That adds up. Even something sub-par in your SB can help. Also, not running fetches will make a difference.
Besides that, Dragon's Claw or Leyline of Sanctity in the SB can be clunky, but can win outright if not expected. However, they will pretty much only ever be useful in the mirror.
So I just recently finished a project for Burn that I've been working on off and on for the past couple months. It's a simulator that can be given a card pool or deck list, it then goldfishes with the deck for however many games I feel like (I've been using 1000 for now) and records various information about each game to a database.
From there the database can be examined in order to determine various things about that configuration such as how different cards perform relative to each other in the case of creatures or what land count is optimal, or the average turns to win a game.
So if finding the optimal build for a deck through simulations sounds interesting to you, check it from time to time. I'm relatively active on the project (very active right now as I'm crunching data) and am always looking for interesting questions to try to answer with it.
Could you run some simulations for my current decklist?
It's built for speed and I'm always looking for ways to improve.
Yes and no. The point of automating goldfishing is that the result of one deck can be compared to the result of another. Without bringing other decks into the fold there's not much I could tell you beyond mulligan rates, but I've already done 19 land mulligan rates. Plus, because it's a gold fish I can't really give you accurate turn numbers. I can use the ones it does generate to say if a build is faster or slower than another build though.
I have done a list very similar to yours as part of my test data and it was among the better performers (creatures+bolts is good, go figure). But I'm not sure how much of that is due to the creature bias, without removal/blockers, creatures are much stronger than they are in reality.
I can however tell you that Monastery Swiftspear has been underperforming.
Thats what I was thinking, but we don't actually play that many instants and sorceries any more, so it may be a bit harder to cast, I'm still gonna test those over SDT.
I'm generally not big on SDT anyway. I play some Magma Jets, but they're merely okay. If you can cast Bedlam Reveler for RR, that's a good deal.
Trouble is, it won't actually happen very much. If you're running ~20 Mountains and ~12 other permanents (which is not uncommon these days, with Eidolons, GG, Devils or Swiftspears, Vortexes), you're down to 28 Instants/Sorceries. Getting to 6 is about 21.4% of your non-permanents, or a similar percentage of your deck. That's about 13 cards. And 13 cards is about turn 6 (on the non-mulligan play).
SDT or Jet might help you get there a bit faster. SDT soaks up 3 mana though, which will deprive you of casting some of said spells. However, we still haven't accounted for playing the Reveler itself. If Reveler replaces an Instants or Sorceries, this just gets worse. Thus, you have to use it to replace permanents, especially in multiples.
You're probably going to actually end up playing it around turn 4-5 for 1RR.
It is also anti-synergistic with Lavamancer.
It's certainly worth a try, but it can't just be jammed in any deck. I might try it. I hate the idea of losing my Lavamancers, though.
How do you guys sideboard against Eldrazi? Theyre like ahlf my meta and a powerhouse... They almost always get turn 1 Chalice for 1, then turn 2, spells cost 1 more. GAH so infuriating.
Seems tough, but Ensnaring Bridge, Spree/Smash, 20+land manabases, and Price of Progress seem like your strongest options if Eldrazi are running rampant.
I play 2-3 vexing shusher for the T1 chalice decks, esp eldrazi since their only removal is dismember. It's also incidentally fine against miracles and counterbalance shenanigans. It's also a card to bring in versus the mirror to just go up on cards that matter (even though vanilla 2/2s are bad, it's better than price and vortex etc...).
And yeah, price of progress is worth about 6-10 damage which picks up a lot of the slack.
I like Bedlam Reveler; I might get a playset before UR delver blows it out the water.
Is it me but I think Otherworldly Outburst is an awesome card. How to get the 3/2 HP Lovecraft horror's is a little tricky. I know it seemed too much like Skin Invasion. But I like the instant more because of the surprise.
Taking Burn to my LGS's first Legacy event today. I've been playing some matches on MTGO to get the feel of the deck (I come from playing Burn and Aggro decks in Modern) and have done pretty well. My question is what sideboard do I bring to a brand new meta? This is what I'm thinking at the moment.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I feel like I'd sooner play Mogg Fanatic again, honestly. He'll get in for just as much attack damage, plus deal another point without requiring you to discard another card from your hand.
Also, Mogg Fanatic has history. That's a nice perk, and makes it a classier play.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
And apparently I've changed my name: Ugh
P.S. Another blast from the past: Cave-In. If only we weren't a deck full of */2s these days.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Incidentally, I know people here love SDT (which I still disagree with), but research shows that a while back, Brainstorm was used. It's infinitely better than SDT or Jet, probably sufficiently to overcome any concerns with playing a Volcanic Island. Just food for thought.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Gonna nibble a bit on the food for thought.
My first choice for a splash would still be for Taigas to get rid of problematic artifacts and enchantments. Despite Brainstorm being much more powerful than Magma Jet, it has similar issues of requiring more slots due to its 1-shot nature. We can look at how other decks use Brainstorm, and if we have similar needs.
Burn doesn't need any help in the tempo department (the way Delver tempo decks use Brainstorm), so that's a pretty short discussion.
Control decks like Miracles have about a dozen slots dedicated to library manipulation. They can afford to do this because their cards like Jace, Terminus, Counterbalance, and Mentor are so powerful. They run fewer business cards, and then run a ton of library manipulation to find the right answer. However, we can't afford to run fewer business spells because our spells are weaker. Instead of a Counterbalance that could foil countless Bolts, we just have Bolts. Therefore we can't afford to dilute our deck with tons of cantrips, nor can we afford to spend a ton of mana to cast cantrips. If I had 1 mana to spend, I'd usually rather Lava Spike someone than durdle about with Brainstorm (assuming that Brainstorm would replace the relatively unpopular Lava Spike), even if it draws me Bolt+Mountain+Guide. Sure that Brainstorm would have drawn me into two business spells, but so often maximizing damage per mana is the way to win, and Brainstorm gives 0 damage.
Counterpoint time. Doesn't Top suffer from these problems? Sure, it requires mana to use, and it takes up slots. I think of Top like many decks think of Sylvan Library: not a tempo play for optimizing turns 2-3, but rather an endurance tool for better viability in grindy games. All this combines to mean that Top needs fewer slots, you're more likely to see it in later turns rather than have it clog up an opener, and you're more likely to have the extra mana to use it as you enter the late game.
I could see a small blue splash for Brainstorm and Delver working in Burn. However, I'd still prefer to run Green for answers like Krosan Grip if I were going to experiement with a splash. Ultimately, I find the consistency of mono-Red "good enough" that I'm not sorely tempted by either option.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Wear // Tear makes Plateau the better option since it beats the only truly insurmountable enchantment: Chill.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I was playtesting my Grixis Delver deck (yeah, I've been taking a break from playing burn) against a burn player who ran the Revelry splash package and there were a few games I won because he got mana screwed after I wasted his Taiga (In those scenarios, he naturally drew it and needed to play it in order to cast his spells on time). In addition, the 1 extra damage you get from Smash to Smithereens is relevant and was the difference between victory and defeat against MUD for me at least one time. As a result, I've decided to write off problematic enchantments (Leyline of Sanctity isn't one of them) as unwinnable because you lose too much against the rest of the field trying to beat said enchantments.
Chill isn't even too bad as you can still blow it up with Red Elemental Blast. Heck, my deck doesn't run REB and I still beat Shardless BUG players that have played that card against me anyway. Enchantments like Leyline and Chill constrict my options to the point where my window for punting games via incorrect decisions becomes very small or even nonexistant since they slow me down so much. I've faced both cards enough to where I'm not even worried about playing against either enchantment at this point to be honest.
TL;DR: The best solution IMO is to not worry about it as long as the only available solutions involve making your manabase worse (if Wizards ever prints mono-red enchantment hate though that's subject to change lol). I even have a song to help you with that if needed lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD6AfcoG4o8
(Yes, I'm mostly kidding.)
GLM, Searing B., and StS generally mess them up pretty well, but it's not an easy fight.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
To be clear, I agree with this. I was evaluating only Green vs White, not arguing for either over mono-red.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I saw a few players actually use this at GP columbus, It's actually a fairly nice catch-all outside the DNT matchup, especially against Enchantress. The problem is that it's too expensive, however.
Besides that, Dragon's Claw or Leyline of Sanctity in the SB can be clunky, but can win outright if not expected. However, they will pretty much only ever be useful in the mirror.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
From there the database can be examined in order to determine various things about that configuration such as how different cards perform relative to each other in the case of creatures or what land count is optimal, or the average turns to win a game.
I've been posting about it on the source but figured I would mention it here too, except I decided to put it in it's own thread rather than spam this one with discussion that only a few people tend to find interesting. So here's the thread http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/723573-fancy-ways-to-count-to-20
So if finding the optimal build for a deck through simulations sounds interesting to you, check it from time to time. I'm relatively active on the project (very active right now as I'm crunching data) and am always looking for interesting questions to try to answer with it.
It's built for speed and I'm always looking for ways to improve.
19x Mountain
//Creatures (16):
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Vexing Devil
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Shard Volley
4x Fireblast
//Sorceries (14):
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
2x Reckless Abandon
4x Rift Bolt
Yes and no. The point of automating goldfishing is that the result of one deck can be compared to the result of another. Without bringing other decks into the fold there's not much I could tell you beyond mulligan rates, but I've already done 19 land mulligan rates. Plus, because it's a gold fish I can't really give you accurate turn numbers. I can use the ones it does generate to say if a build is faster or slower than another build though.
I have done a list very similar to yours as part of my test data and it was among the better performers (creatures+bolts is good, go figure). But I'm not sure how much of that is due to the creature bias, without removal/blockers, creatures are much stronger than they are in reality.
I can however tell you that Monastery Swiftspear has been underperforming.
RIP Karn EDH
Trouble is, it won't actually happen very much. If you're running ~20 Mountains and ~12 other permanents (which is not uncommon these days, with Eidolons, GG, Devils or Swiftspears, Vortexes), you're down to 28 Instants/Sorceries. Getting to 6 is about 21.4% of your non-permanents, or a similar percentage of your deck. That's about 13 cards. And 13 cards is about turn 6 (on the non-mulligan play).
SDT or Jet might help you get there a bit faster. SDT soaks up 3 mana though, which will deprive you of casting some of said spells. However, we still haven't accounted for playing the Reveler itself. If Reveler replaces an Instants or Sorceries, this just gets worse. Thus, you have to use it to replace permanents, especially in multiples.
You're probably going to actually end up playing it around turn 4-5 for 1RR.
It is also anti-synergistic with Lavamancer.
It's certainly worth a try, but it can't just be jammed in any deck. I might try it. I hate the idea of losing my Lavamancers, though.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
And yeah, price of progress is worth about 6-10 damage which picks up a lot of the slack.
And apparently I've changed my name: Ugh
Is it me but I think Otherworldly Outburst is an awesome card. How to get the 3/2 HP Lovecraft horror's is a little tricky. I know it seemed too much like Skin Invasion. But I like the instant more because of the surprise.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Here are my questions.
Is this a decent sideboard for an open meta?
What would you change?
(Or) What sideboard would you bring?