So I am crafting out a list for R/B burn, as much as I love mono red, I want to ability to have outs to combo with discard and I want bob as card advantage. What I am stuck on is the creature base.
Seems like it would be good in a Thalia dominated meta. Feels too slow to deal with combo, though. In fact, are there ANY tools for hating combo besides Tormod's Crypt?
In what matchups would you side out grim lavamancer. I see how he can be good against some creature decks but he seems kinda clunky and slow for just going to the dome.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
In what matchups would you side out grim lavamancer. I see how he can be good against some creature decks but he seems kinda clunky and slow for just going to the dome.
Basically, against combo matchups. Even then, he's not necessarily the first thing you bring out. Most combo decks in legacy are just faster than Burn. Period. So you're really not trying to side out slow cards to race them. A better strategy is to side out conditionally useless or less useful cards for your sideboard hate. Such as siding out Price of Progress against Reanimator, because they rarely need more than two lands. You want to bring in hate to mess with them enough to just get there with Burn's consistent clock. Lavamancer is often a good way to do this, so I rarely side him out.
Round 1 vs. 4 Color Control
He was playing a semi-homebrew 4CC deck with Quiet Speculation to fetch Lingering Souls and other such value cards, as well as the traditional Force of Will, Daze, Ponder, Brainstorm package and a slew of other goodies like Deathrite Shaman,Baleful Strix, and Young Pyromancer. Oh, and no basics. Good matchup. Game 1
I don't remember exactly how it went down but I got quite a bit of mileage out of goblin guide. I'm pretty sure he countered all my Prices but I won with bolts and flame rifts anyway. Game 2
This one was close. I looked at my opening hand, quickly counted up my damage, counted 15, kept, then cast vexing devil turn 1, which resolved. I had even started to write 16 down when he said "End of turn, bolt it." Well, shucks. I hadn't even seen any red mana game 1. I get him down to 5 life, but eventually he overwhelms me with Young Pyromancer. Game 3
Turn 1 goblin guide, met by turn one Deathrite Shaman. I untap, chain lightning the shaman, and keep on swinging. Turns out he kept a one land hand because he didn't think I'd remove his shaman (I consider deathrite shaman to be "Kill on Sight," along with Stoneforge Mystic). He ponders and brainstorms like crazy, but I get a precous two more attacks in with guide before he hits his second land. I see Quiet Speculation for the first time this match and spent the rest of the game smiling ear to ear because of how cool that is. He ends the game with 6 spirits off of lingering souls, but I got too much damage through when he was stuck on one mana and pick this one up with little trouble. 1-0
Round 2 vs. RUG Tempo Game 1
He blind flips a Delver of Secrets turn 2, follows it up with a Nimble Mongoose and achieves threshold at turn 4 I think. Meanwhile, he has something like 3 dazes over the course of the game and a Force of Will, so I lose pretty handily without resolving many spells. (He ended with 14 life. This wasn't even close.) Game 2
Another blowout, this time because he goes delver into blind flip into goyf. He races me, then forces or Flusterstorms my last few spells and finishes me off. 1-1
Round 3 vs. Shardless BUG
I'll preface this with some info about the player. He's a standard/modern player who is brand new to legacy, so while he understands the fundamentals he doesn't know the meta at all and doesn't know how to deal with certain strategies. He borrowed the deck from the guy I played in round 1, so he also didn't know exactly what was in it or how exactly to sideboard. He'd never played Shardless BUG before, even on cockatrice; he knew vaguely how it worked but didn't get some of the finer points, such as the fact that hardcasting ancestral visions is totally fine; he kept holding on to it in the hopes that he could brainstorm it back onto his library and cascade into it. Game 1
I mulligan to six. He hits me with a turn 1 thoughtseize. He sees three mountains, two prices, and a rift bolt. (I kept it because I saw him playing earlier and knew he would have lots of nonbasics.) He takes... the rift bolt. Like I said, he's a new player. I topdeck a goblin guide and go to town. Eventually I manage to price for 8 and win, even through his 5/6 goyf. Game 2
He plays engineered plague naming Devils, which is a very weird choice, and goes to show that he doesn't quite know what he's doing with his sideboard. He still wins though, because 2 goyfs and 2 shardless agents backed up by counterspells outraced me. Game 3
I keep a one land hand with 6 bolts. I drew a mountain and another bolt. I win pretty handily, even without anything fancy like Price. 2-1
Round 4 vs. Death and Taxes (kinda)
It was mono white, it ran stoneforge mystic, it ran wasteland, it ran rishadan port, it ran karakas, it ran Thalia, Guardian of Thraben... but it also ran stuff like mirran crusader, and it didn't really feel like D&T. Maybe it was just a really aggressive version of D&T, but the long and short of it is he ran lots of plains and batterskull. Game 1
He resolved stoneforge mystic, I bolted it, he played another one, I didn't have anything left to target creatures with. I lose. Game 2
Same thing, except this time I have sulfuric vortex out so it's just a good old fashioned race. My hand is chaos warp, fireblast, fireblast, and I have vortex, vexing devil, and 3 mountains out. He has a flickerwisp, 2 phyrexian revokers, and a stoneforge mystic out (I chaos warped his batterskull), as well as a single swords to plowshares in hand (I saw it off of goblin guide), which can gain him 3 life if he casts it on his own flickerwisp (so he has a possible 10 life). I hatch a brilliant plan: I'm going to chaos warp my own vexing devil and hope to flip a mountain so I can double fireblast him and he'll die on upkeep.
It doesn't work. 2-2
Round 5 vs. Imperial Painter
He's playing the variant with Goblin Welder. Other than that, it's your run-of-the-grind Imperial Painter deck. (See what I did there? I replaced "mill" with "grind" because rather than millstone imperial painter uses grindstone? Get it?) Game 1
He finds his combo on turn 5, but doesn't have time to activate it before I kill him. Game 2
I keep a one land hand, he plays a turn one thorn of amethyst and I don't draw another land for an upsetting number of turns. I finally get to cast a spell and he's already got painter's servant out so he just counters it with a pyroblast and wins with grindstone next turn. That's what I get for being greedy. Game 3
He plays thorn of amethyst turn 1 again, but I fight through it this time. Lucky for me, he assumed I sided out my prices and went ham with the nonbasics, taking 4 damage off of his ancient tomb and then another 4 off of price. After a long game of cat and mouse (I bolted two painter's servants in response to tapping out for grindstone), I finally beat him with a topdeck lava spike. 3-2
Somehow I made it to 7th place, which put me in top 8. Some guy wanted to play it out so I had to play a sixth round.
Round 6 vs. Jund
He ran the version with grove of the burnwillows and punishing fire. (Or is that every jund deck? I don't know the deck all that well.) This should be a good matchup, since Jund runs lots of nonbasics and thoughtseize is pretty awful against burn. Game 1
I lose to three 4/5 goyfs. Game 2
I mulligan to 4 without seeing any lands. Oh cruel fate, wherefore hath thou scorned me? Was it that time I broke my mom's vase and blamed the dog?
Well aside from the painful, painful last round, it was a good learning experience. Notes:
Vexing devil is terrible. I was never happy to see him. He can only thrive in a deck with lots of other removal decks, so if you want to run a more creature oriented burn (4x lavamancer, 4x keldon marauders, 4x hellspark elemental, etc.) then vexing devil might be good, but in my build I should have just run hellspark elementals or lavamancers or something.
Barbarian ring SUCKS. It looks good on paper but it's soooo bad. It just opens you up to wasteland. Luckily both times I got wasted I had plenty of mountains to back it up, but still, ring is god awful. Don't run it.
Chaos warp is pretty meh. In the future I'll just run smash to smithereens and anarchy in the board and take some of the other stuff out. Probably pithing needle. I sided it in for Imperial Painter, but I ended up winning those matches without ever drawing needle. I also sided them in against BUG for Jace, the Mindsculptor, but that matchup is pretty good without needle as well.
Grim lavamancer is really good, even without fetchlands. Remember, if you activate him twice that's 4 damage for one card, which is already efficient. Even if you run out of gas for him after 2 uses, that's still value, and he also scares opponents. And he kills deathrite shaman. and he kills stoneforge mystic. Just trust me on this one, lavamancer is the ****. I wouldn't run 4 without fetches, but 2-3 seems like a good number. With fetches, run 4. No doubt.
Alright, that's it. Thanks for reading. Constructive criticism is always welcome.
So I am crafting out a list for R/B burn, as much as I love mono red, I want to ability to have outs to combo with discard and I want bob as card advantage. What I am stuck on is the creature base.
I like the shaman because he can also function as accelerant and work as a counter to KOTR's or the Lands decks. But he cant hit creatures.
What do you folks think?
You're not describing burn; once you're using discard and confidant and watering down your 40 or so burn spells with card advantage and outs against combo, you're essentially playing a bad tempo deck. Plus, bob and fireblast don't play nice, and fireblast is one of the best cards in the deck.
That being said, you want shaman because shaman provides an out against dredge and can do more damage to your opponent with less cards than lavamance, whereas a more traditional burn deck wants lavamancer because it hits pesky creatures without using up your precious spells in hand, as well as being mono red.
You don't need Blood Moon. Price of Progress is better non-basic hate in our deck. Also, as you already pointed out, Burn has an edge against the same decks that Blood Moon crushes.
Playing in my first Legacy event today with something similar to patrick sullivan's list and looking for some general sideboarding advice as a baseline (I have never played this format before).
If sideboarding 4 Mindbreak Trap against storm, how aggressively do you mulligan for one? I could see keeping a fast hand without one but what if looks marginal to win by turn 4, which may not even be fast enough depending on if you are on the play or not.
I suppose I could ask the same about siding in 4 REB and 3 Ensnaring Bridges vs show and tell.
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
You need consider both the deck you're playing and the deck your opponent is playing when deciding how to mulligan. Burn has no card draw, and little library manipulation outside of Magma Jet. Against fast combo decks you really have to mull pretty aggressively, because you don't have ways of interacting or stalling until you draw into hate. You just don't have many turns to draw blindly into answers.
It's another question against slower decks, but Show and Storm are both pretty fast.
I'd happily mull at least until I reached 5 to try to get hate against them.
Small event 3 rounds of swiss with roughly patrick sullivans list
Round 1: vs Burn 2-0
Was pretty interactive seeing who could cast lightning bolts the fastest.
-4 Price of Progress, +4 Searing Blaze
Round 2: Affinity 1-2
Whoever went first won, seems even enough. Although game 3 was a blow out because I made the mistake of not killing a vault skirge turn 1 then had it hit me for a bunch with cranial plating.
-4 Flame Rift, + 4 Searing Blaze
Round 3: Affinity 1-2
Same deal whoever went first won.
-4 Flame Rift, + 4 Searing Blaze
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
^ Its because of matchups like Affinity that I still can't get rid of Smash to Smithereens. The card just disrupts their gameplan so efficiently.
Yeah I was walking into an unknown meta so had to start somewhere for a baseline. There are 3 affinity players and 3 DnT players so I will definitely be running smash to smithereens next time. It would probably be fine to main deck some searing blazes in that particular meta.
I should note I have seen a 4 of Leyline in a sideboard... not sure how pervasive it is throughout the meta but if it is, possibly I should switch to a more creature based approach with keldon marauders, figure of destiny etc.
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
Yeah I was walking into an unknown meta so had to start somewhere for a baseline. There are 3 affinity players and 3 DnT players so I will definitely be running smash to smithereens next time. It would probably be fine to main deck some searing blazes in that particular meta.
I should note I have seen a 4 of Leyline in a sideboard... not sure how pervasive it is throughout the meta but if it is, possibly I should switch to a more creature based approach with keldon marauders, figure of destiny etc.
Leyline certainly hurts, I never side out flame rift, PoP or sulfuric vortex if I even suspect a hint of a Leyline coming out.
Keldon is really bad against leyline, since his ETB and LTB effects are compulsory so you have to hit yourself. And then he isn't guaranteed damage. Hellspark is better against leyline IMO.
Leyline of Sanctity gives me another excuse to pump Smash to Smithereens. If they're using enough artifacts to warrant bringing StS in, the tandem of StS, Flame Rift, Sulfuric Vortex, and Price of Progress is usually enough to make the leyline largely irrelevant.
Its a pretty creature heavy list. Up a game vs Omnitell as I'm posting
My biggest question is why 2 Chain Lightnings but 4 Lava Spikes?
EDIT: Well, he just lost.....just barely, he will not be in the finals. Still made top 4. Leyline, is just so hard to deal with. Which is in itself a difficult thing to do.
Its a pretty creature heavy list. Up a game vs Omnitell as I'm posting
My biggest question is why 2 Chain Lightnings but 4 Lava Spikes?
EDIT: Well, he just lost.....just barely, he will not be in the finals. Still made top 4. Leyline, is just so hard to deal with. Which is in itself a difficult thing to do.
If you were expecting a field full of RUG or RWU Delver, there is a greater danger of losing the race to Delver if they bounce Chain back at you. Tempo decks with R are more likely to have counter/brainstorm/bolt mana open they can use to copy Chain.
Personally, I cut Price first for that meta, because it will too often amount to a two mana Shock.
If you were expecting a field full of RUG or RWU Delver, there is a greater danger of losing the race to Delver if they bounce Chain back at you. Tempo decks with R are more likely to have counter/brainstorm/bolt mana open they can use to copy Chain.
Personally, I cut Price first for that meta, because it will too often amount to a two mana Shock.
I think I would keep at least three Prices in the main. I might pull one or two going into game two depending on what they are playing. If it was Shardless Bug I would wish I had my fourth in the board. lol Most other decks would just fetch for basics or hold Waistelands in response. I do like his use of Young Pyromancer. I think it is great tech for this deck.
agreed, i like the use of Young Pyromancer, the only thing is, he doesn't impact the board immediately, but the same can be said for Grim Lavamancer. Pyromancer's worth is based off of how many instants and sorceries you can use, which in burn, is a lot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
Anyone know how to find videos of Doug's games if any were featured? I'm trying to find it on their twitch tv thing but not getting anything on my searches.
I am really glad Doug placed as high as he did. It shows how skilled a burn player he is. I am really hoping he is a member of the forum or mtgthesource. I would love to read a recap of his weekend.
Based off of that deck list I'd say he'd have to be very skilled. The heavy creature base means more interaction with other players. It also means he anticipated a heavy use of Leyline of Sanctity which will stop the burn, but not do much against the creature beats.
I'm really sad he didn't make it to finals but third place is amazing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
So a update about Dougs 3rd place finish. A source has told me that he was going to run all 4 copys of Chain Lightning and x number of fetchlands. He was going to get them from a friend, but that didn't happen so he went with 19 Basics and shoved 2 Young Pyromancers into the missing Chain Lightnings place.
________________________________________
This Information can't be 100% verified, but it was posted somewhere else online from someone that was at the event and spoke with Doug.
Specifically between Deathrite Shaman and Grim Lavamancer
I like the shaman because he can also function as accelerant and work as a counter to KOTR's or the Lands decks. But he cant hit creatures.
What do you folks think?
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Blood Knight
4 Goblin Guide
4 Rakdos Cackler
Instants/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
1 Shard Volley
1 Thunderous Wrath
2 Runechanter's Pike
Lands
1 Barbarian Ring
17 Mountain
1 Ash Zealot
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Volcanic Fallout
2 Shattering Spree
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Dismember
Source: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11335&iddeck=82770
Seems like it would be good in a Thalia dominated meta. Feels too slow to deal with combo, though. In fact, are there ANY tools for hating combo besides Tormod's Crypt?
I dunno. Seems a bit cute and gimmicky.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
Basically, against combo matchups. Even then, he's not necessarily the first thing you bring out. Most combo decks in legacy are just faster than Burn. Period. So you're really not trying to side out slow cards to race them. A better strategy is to side out conditionally useless or less useful cards for your sideboard hate. Such as siding out Price of Progress against Reanimator, because they rarely need more than two lands. You want to bring in hate to mess with them enough to just get there with Burn's consistent clock. Lavamancer is often a good way to do this, so I rarely side him out.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
4 Goblin Guide
16 Lightning Bolts
4 Vexing Devil
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fireblast
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Barbarian Ring
18 Mountain
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
2 Pithing Needle
3 Chaos Warp
He was playing a semi-homebrew 4CC deck with Quiet Speculation to fetch Lingering Souls and other such value cards, as well as the traditional Force of Will, Daze, Ponder, Brainstorm package and a slew of other goodies like Deathrite Shaman, Baleful Strix, and Young Pyromancer. Oh, and no basics. Good matchup.
Game 1
I don't remember exactly how it went down but I got quite a bit of mileage out of goblin guide. I'm pretty sure he countered all my Prices but I won with bolts and flame rifts anyway.
Game 2
This one was close. I looked at my opening hand, quickly counted up my damage, counted 15, kept, then cast vexing devil turn 1, which resolved. I had even started to write 16 down when he said "End of turn, bolt it." Well, shucks. I hadn't even seen any red mana game 1. I get him down to 5 life, but eventually he overwhelms me with Young Pyromancer.
Game 3
Turn 1 goblin guide, met by turn one Deathrite Shaman. I untap, chain lightning the shaman, and keep on swinging. Turns out he kept a one land hand because he didn't think I'd remove his shaman (I consider deathrite shaman to be "Kill on Sight," along with Stoneforge Mystic). He ponders and brainstorms like crazy, but I get a precous two more attacks in with guide before he hits his second land. I see Quiet Speculation for the first time this match and spent the rest of the game smiling ear to ear because of how cool that is. He ends the game with 6 spirits off of lingering souls, but I got too much damage through when he was stuck on one mana and pick this one up with little trouble.
1-0
Round 2 vs. RUG Tempo
Game 1
He blind flips a Delver of Secrets turn 2, follows it up with a Nimble Mongoose and achieves threshold at turn 4 I think. Meanwhile, he has something like 3 dazes over the course of the game and a Force of Will, so I lose pretty handily without resolving many spells. (He ended with 14 life. This wasn't even close.)
Game 2
Another blowout, this time because he goes delver into blind flip into goyf. He races me, then forces or Flusterstorms my last few spells and finishes me off.
1-1
Round 3 vs. Shardless BUG
I'll preface this with some info about the player. He's a standard/modern player who is brand new to legacy, so while he understands the fundamentals he doesn't know the meta at all and doesn't know how to deal with certain strategies. He borrowed the deck from the guy I played in round 1, so he also didn't know exactly what was in it or how exactly to sideboard. He'd never played Shardless BUG before, even on cockatrice; he knew vaguely how it worked but didn't get some of the finer points, such as the fact that hardcasting ancestral visions is totally fine; he kept holding on to it in the hopes that he could brainstorm it back onto his library and cascade into it.
Game 1
I mulligan to six. He hits me with a turn 1 thoughtseize. He sees three mountains, two prices, and a rift bolt. (I kept it because I saw him playing earlier and knew he would have lots of nonbasics.) He takes... the rift bolt. Like I said, he's a new player. I topdeck a goblin guide and go to town. Eventually I manage to price for 8 and win, even through his 5/6 goyf.
Game 2
He plays engineered plague naming Devils, which is a very weird choice, and goes to show that he doesn't quite know what he's doing with his sideboard. He still wins though, because 2 goyfs and 2 shardless agents backed up by counterspells outraced me.
Game 3
I keep a one land hand with 6 bolts. I drew a mountain and another bolt. I win pretty handily, even without anything fancy like Price.
2-1
Round 4 vs. Death and Taxes (kinda)
It was mono white, it ran stoneforge mystic, it ran wasteland, it ran rishadan port, it ran karakas, it ran Thalia, Guardian of Thraben... but it also ran stuff like mirran crusader, and it didn't really feel like D&T. Maybe it was just a really aggressive version of D&T, but the long and short of it is he ran lots of plains and batterskull.
Game 1
He resolved stoneforge mystic, I bolted it, he played another one, I didn't have anything left to target creatures with. I lose.
Game 2
Same thing, except this time I have sulfuric vortex out so it's just a good old fashioned race. My hand is chaos warp, fireblast, fireblast, and I have vortex, vexing devil, and 3 mountains out. He has a flickerwisp, 2 phyrexian revokers, and a stoneforge mystic out (I chaos warped his batterskull), as well as a single swords to plowshares in hand (I saw it off of goblin guide), which can gain him 3 life if he casts it on his own flickerwisp (so he has a possible 10 life). I hatch a brilliant plan: I'm going to chaos warp my own vexing devil and hope to flip a mountain so I can double fireblast him and he'll die on upkeep.
It doesn't work.
2-2
Round 5 vs. Imperial Painter
He's playing the variant with Goblin Welder. Other than that, it's your run-of-the-grind Imperial Painter deck. (See what I did there? I replaced "mill" with "grind" because rather than millstone imperial painter uses grindstone? Get it?)
Game 1
He finds his combo on turn 5, but doesn't have time to activate it before I kill him.
Game 2
I keep a one land hand, he plays a turn one thorn of amethyst and I don't draw another land for an upsetting number of turns. I finally get to cast a spell and he's already got painter's servant out so he just counters it with a pyroblast and wins with grindstone next turn. That's what I get for being greedy.
Game 3
He plays thorn of amethyst turn 1 again, but I fight through it this time. Lucky for me, he assumed I sided out my prices and went ham with the nonbasics, taking 4 damage off of his ancient tomb and then another 4 off of price. After a long game of cat and mouse (I bolted two painter's servants in response to tapping out for grindstone), I finally beat him with a topdeck lava spike.
3-2
Somehow I made it to 7th place, which put me in top 8. Some guy wanted to play it out so I had to play a sixth round.
Round 6 vs. Jund
He ran the version with grove of the burnwillows and punishing fire. (Or is that every jund deck? I don't know the deck all that well.) This should be a good matchup, since Jund runs lots of nonbasics and thoughtseize is pretty awful against burn.
Game 1
I lose to three 4/5 goyfs.
Game 2
I mulligan to 4 without seeing any lands. Oh cruel fate, wherefore hath thou scorned me? Was it that time I broke my mom's vase and blamed the dog?
Well aside from the painful, painful last round, it was a good learning experience.
Notes:
Alright, that's it. Thanks for reading. Constructive criticism is always welcome.
You're not describing burn; once you're using discard and confidant and watering down your 40 or so burn spells with card advantage and outs against combo, you're essentially playing a bad tempo deck. Plus, bob and fireblast don't play nice, and fireblast is one of the best cards in the deck.
That being said, you want shaman because shaman provides an out against dredge and can do more damage to your opponent with less cards than lavamance, whereas a more traditional burn deck wants lavamancer because it hits pesky creatures without using up your precious spells in hand, as well as being mono red.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
If sideboarding 4 Mindbreak Trap against storm, how aggressively do you mulligan for one? I could see keeping a fast hand without one but what if looks marginal to win by turn 4, which may not even be fast enough depending on if you are on the play or not.
I suppose I could ask the same about siding in 4 REB and 3 Ensnaring Bridges vs show and tell.
It's another question against slower decks, but Show and Storm are both pretty fast.
I'd happily mull at least until I reached 5 to try to get hate against them.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
Round 1: vs Burn 2-0
Was pretty interactive seeing who could cast lightning bolts the fastest.
-4 Price of Progress, +4 Searing Blaze
Round 2: Affinity 1-2
Whoever went first won, seems even enough. Although game 3 was a blow out because I made the mistake of not killing a vault skirge turn 1 then had it hit me for a bunch with cranial plating.
-4 Flame Rift, + 4 Searing Blaze
Round 3: Affinity 1-2
Same deal whoever went first won.
-4 Flame Rift, + 4 Searing Blaze
Legacy Burn
NO Combo Elves
Reanimator
Trades
Burn Primer
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
Yeah I was walking into an unknown meta so had to start somewhere for a baseline. There are 3 affinity players and 3 DnT players so I will definitely be running smash to smithereens next time. It would probably be fine to main deck some searing blazes in that particular meta.
I should note I have seen a 4 of Leyline in a sideboard... not sure how pervasive it is throughout the meta but if it is, possibly I should switch to a more creature based approach with keldon marauders, figure of destiny etc.
Leyline certainly hurts, I never side out flame rift, PoP or sulfuric vortex if I even suspect a hint of a Leyline coming out.
Legacy Burn
NO Combo Elves
Reanimator
Trades
Burn Primer
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
List is here
Its a pretty creature heavy list. Up a game vs Omnitell as I'm posting
My biggest question is why 2 Chain Lightnings but 4 Lava Spikes?
EDIT: Well, he just lost.....just barely, he will not be in the finals. Still made top 4. Leyline, is just so hard to deal with. Which is in itself a difficult thing to do.
-Anonymous
If you were expecting a field full of RUG or RWU Delver, there is a greater danger of losing the race to Delver if they bounce Chain back at you. Tempo decks with R are more likely to have counter/brainstorm/bolt mana open they can use to copy Chain.
Personally, I cut Price first for that meta, because it will too often amount to a two mana Shock.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
I think I would keep at least three Prices in the main. I might pull one or two going into game two depending on what they are playing. If it was Shardless Bug I would wish I had my fourth in the board. lol Most other decks would just fetch for basics or hold Waistelands in response. I do like his use of Young Pyromancer. I think it is great tech for this deck.
-Anonymous
Its really sad how he lost. He would have won the game with 1 more turn or if Leyline wasn't out.
EDIT: found video for most of the Legacy Event
I'm not sure if there are any earlier matches of him as I wasn't watching the entire thing but finals start with Doug starts at 4:23:58
-Anonymous
I'm really sad he didn't make it to finals but third place is amazing.
-Anonymous
________________________________________
This Information can't be 100% verified, but it was posted somewhere else online from someone that was at the event and spoke with Doug.