I thought about counterbalance as well but having to remove an aditional 3-4 cards other than misstep seems to much.
So I thought about Phyrexian Dreadnought what do you guys think about adding a couple dreadnought and trinket mage to replace the misstep. The deck already runs 3-4 stifle so seems to fit well to me.
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YES, WE KNOW THAT IT WILL BE GREAT IN YOUR EDH DECK.
Ancestral Visions, what the hell? Why are people suggesting things like visions/counterbalance for this deck as if it wasn't a real deck before MM. I think you guys need to go back and read the first page.
It's because without Mental Misstep, Ancestral Vision is unplayable.
What made Vision good is BECAUSE you could 1-for-1 your opponent, then refill your hand with a set Vision. Without Misstep this becomes difficult if not impossible.
In fact, U/W Stoneforge isn't really a deck anymore.
I'm a newbie to this deck and am still reading through the posts, but would it be possible to get some updated info in the primer? No decklists from the past 18 months have been posted in the primer, nor new cards/developments in that time. Hopefully a high-profile, "Proven" deck deserves some more love than that.
i dont have a working SB yet but this deck is ridicules without BOB... i wish i had room for him but with Snapcaster booming back Brainstorm for extra setup and jace 2.0 he is extra fodder...
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PARAMEDIC/FIREFIGHTER
YUMA, AZ
I started in SAGA and quit at kamigawa... just came back in nov,2010
i like the liliana with snapcaster because i can discard when in control or behind of the game and then "snap back" your discarded spell... and the tombstalker i like in mid late game and dont really "need" to delve all 6 every time... LOL...
the top16 deck had too much removal, not enough discard in my opinion. I thought more IoK or Thoughtseize would have been better with the 3x Snapcasters too.
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YES, WE KNOW THAT IT WILL BE GREAT IN YOUR EDH DECK.
I've been wondering about Bob myself. Most builds can't risk it with full sets of both FoW and Tombstalker, but this build is much more suited to running him. At the same time, TA seems like it could have trouble with the opponent stabilizing after the initial onslaught of disruption/removal, much like Zoo can peter out in the mid game. Bob would give the deck some much-needed endurance just like Sylvan Library in Zoo.
The five removal spells are a little odd; it seems to me like running fewer distinct spells would increase the consistency of the deck; you'd be better able to anticipate what the deck could give you, and plan around that. Snapcaster allows you to replay things, but it's not a tutor: you have to draw it and play it once first!
Thanks for the list though; this is getting closer to where I'd like to take the deck personally.
The gameplan is the same as tempo treshold with low cost creatures and low cost removal, that you can play with 1-2 lands all cards of the deck. Delver of secrets is a good addition as a 1cmc creature and can be pitched with fow in mid game. I am thinking of adding dark confidant but may be a little slow.
4 snapcaster mage is too much?
Ty!
How has Delver of Secrets been working for you in testing? I considered using it myself but it would likely mean cutting tombstalker which Im kinda against because he wins the majority of the games for me.
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Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
I do believe 4 Snapcaster Mage is too much. As they are really not that uselful until turn three as you need extra mana to flash grave yard cards. So multiples in your opening hand may require a muligan. But if you do run 4 snapcasters then I have to agree 5 removal spells is too much as they can be flashbacked.
Now I would like peoples thoughts on fitting surgical extraction into the deck as it has great synergy with Snapcaster, as well as all the discard and removal in this deck. Also you could side cabal theropy to totally destroy a deck game 2. Below Scenario is Game 2 and assuming you know a card opponent will likely have in opening hand.
yeah i liked his deck a lot too. I agree on the one drops but i think i am going to try making room for stifle. The 3 Jace, seems excessive i like 2, and then the spell snare seems pretty interchangeable for discard/stifles
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YES, WE KNOW THAT IT WILL BE GREAT IN YOUR EDH DECK.
I read an article from Todd Anderson pilot of the 2nd place deck and he said he did not like Unearth and will probably cut it for more Spell Snare/Ponder. Todd explained his creatures are more often exiled than killed and sent to the grave. He also said he may try Reanimator in place of unearth as it can target both graveyards.
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YES, WE KNOW THAT IT WILL BE GREAT IN YOUR EDH DECK.
This is the build I'm going to test this week for SCG Baltimore. Obviously a much more tempo-oriented build. I'm hoping to pick up a Lilliana of the Veil before the tourney, and if I can get my hands on 2-3 more Snapcasters I may drop the Delvers and switch to a more controllish build.
I like EE over Deed for this build due to the danger Deed posts to the Delvers. Stifles came out since I'll usually want to turn 1 Delver, Thoughtsieze, or Ponder and will not want to hold the mana open. Dunno about the math with Delver but I'm thinking I may want to drop 1 of Tombstalker/Clique for another Spell Snare or removal spell. Again, if I can get my hands on a couple of Snapcasters I may tweak the deck around and see what build I like best. Would be interested to hear some input on my list.
Hello, I've recently picked up this deck and have been having pretty good results with it on modo. The exception seems to be mono red burn which I have found completely unwinnable. I was wondering if some of the more experienced deck pilots could tell me their strategy for this matchup. Similarly I have had trouble with goblins although with the perfect draws I can steal a few games from them. I can't post my exact list at the moment because I'm at work but it's the fairly typical build with goyfs, tombstalkers and cliques. I haven't been able to get my hands on snapcasters yet but plan to replace the tombstalkers with them ASAP. Thanks in advance for any advice. Also I'd love to playtest anytime I'm online with anyone, screen name is black_manta
I'm not experienced, just started using the deck, but I did have a hard time in a Burn MU (lost 1-2). Here are my tips:
vs Burn: This will always be pretty hard since you play a lot of fetches, thoughtseize, etc. The best card to beat them is Hymn to Tourach because your objective is to make them run out of gas. Inquisition of Kozilek is very good too. Recurring them with Snapcaster is priceless. Leave Force of Will for Price of Progress (Spell Snare too) and Fireblast.
However, you won't get even with them IMHO.
vs Goblins: More removal is the key here. Don't let their Goblin Lackey connect at all cost. Side in Pernicious Deed since it wins the game on the spot, but don't forget the Wasteland's will make you have a hard time casting it.
I thought about substituting inquisition for thoughtseize out of the board to preserve life my total and still hit their burn spells but I didn't want to dedicate that many slots to discard for 1 matchup when I feel thoughtseize is a strictly better alternative in most matchups.
Don't have deeds online yet, not sure I want to pay the price for them. I tried substituting engineered explosives but I felt like it was a turn too slow whenever I needed it. If I continue to focus solely on this deck I will probably bite the bullet and pick up the deeds.
@ Jcircone I too play this deck in MODO and wont buy deeds as well, as it is spendy and also i feel it is too slow. I run 3 Hydroblast in my board for Goblins/Burn.
@ Phuture I run the same deck as you except i run Go for the Throat over Ghastly and I run 22 lands with 2 Ponder. It is working out pretty well for me.
@ Glurman let me know how Reanimate runs, as I think I may give it a try too.
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@ Jcircone I too play this deck in MODO and wont buy deeds as well, as it is spendy and also i feel it is too slow. I run 3 Hydroblast in my board for Goblins/Burn.
Thanks I will try the hydroblasts. I was also debating about boarding in leyline of sanctity's but am not sure as they can create some awkward mulligan situations to make sure you open with one and it also becomes a dead card if drawn late game as there is no way to hard cast them.
How can he play 21 lands including 4 wastelands, 3 dazes and cast a Jace? seems very hard with the rising popularity of tempo decks with stifles and wastelands... and why he doesn´t play stifles and play 7 discard spells? why to play engineered explosives?
I have a lot of doubts about the list.
Yea Im not so sure about this list either, He seems to be stuck in the middle either you want to play a tempo game and be able to cast your deck for 2 mana or you want to play a more controllish game and play more lands, jace, and EE/Deed. I play a tempo TA and only run 21 lands w/ 4 Wastes but I can cast my entire deck w/ 2 mana and dont have mana issues. Ive tried the other as well but it felt like a worst BUG Still/control deck that was slightly faster but not faster than anything else but with less control (counters/spot removal/CA).
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Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
So I thought about Phyrexian Dreadnought what do you guys think about adding a couple dreadnought and trinket mage to replace the misstep. The deck already runs 3-4 stifle so seems to fit well to me.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
What made Vision good is BECAUSE you could 1-for-1 your opponent, then refill your hand with a set Vision. Without Misstep this becomes difficult if not impossible.
In fact, U/W Stoneforge isn't really a deck anymore.
Just 2c. Thanks!
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tombstalker
3 Tarmogoyf
INSTANT: 19
4 Brainstorm
4 FoW
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Snuff out
2 Dismember
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hym to tourach
1 Life from the loam
PLANESWALKERS: 3
1 Liliana of the veil
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
LANDS: 22
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant catacomb
4 Polluted delta
3 Underground sea
3 Bayou
2 Tropical island
1 Swamp
1 Island
i dont have a working SB yet but this deck is ridicules without BOB... i wish i had room for him but with Snapcaster booming back Brainstorm for extra setup and jace 2.0 he is extra fodder...
YUMA, AZ
goyf is nice early pressure ... always...
i like to think of liliana as a tiny weaker gideon to protect your jtms...
-1 snuff out +1 Go for the throatfor a better snapcaster target
YUMA, AZ
The five removal spells are a little odd; it seems to me like running fewer distinct spells would increase the consistency of the deck; you'd be better able to anticipate what the deck could give you, and plan around that. Snapcaster allows you to replay things, but it's not a tutor: you have to draw it and play it once first!
Thanks for the list though; this is getting closer to where I'd like to take the deck personally.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
How has Delver of Secrets been working for you in testing? I considered using it myself but it would likely mean cutting tombstalker which Im kinda against because he wins the majority of the games for me.
Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
Currently Playing:
Legacy:
BUGBUG DelverGUB
UWRUWR MiraclesRWU
RUGRUG DelverGUR
UUHigh TideUU
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlRWU
UBUB FaeriesBU
BGRJundRGB
URUR StormRU
Standard:
UWUW ControlWU
Now I would like peoples thoughts on fitting surgical extraction into the deck as it has great synergy with Snapcaster, as well as all the discard and removal in this deck. Also you could side cabal theropy to totally destroy a deck game 2. Below Scenario is Game 2 and assuming you know a card opponent will likely have in opening hand.
Turn 1: Land, cabal theropy/ opponent discards card
Turn 2: Land, Surgical Extract/ opponent losses 4 cards
Turn 3: Land, Snapcaster, sac Snapcaster to flashback Cabal, flashback Surgical with the Snapcaster ability/ opponent losses 4 more cards
Now if that was against a storm deck or high tide you could have just destroyed their whole win condition.
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tombstalker
2 Vendilion Clique
Instants
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
2 Dismember
1 Go for The Throat
4 Thoughtseize
2 Unearth
4 Hymn to Tourach
Enchantment
1 Pernicious Deed
Land
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Jace, The minsculptor
2 Krosan Grip
1 Go For The Throat
2 Pernicious DeeD
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mindbreak Trap
My current build.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tombstalker
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Engineered Explosives
I like EE over Deed for this build due to the danger Deed posts to the Delvers. Stifles came out since I'll usually want to turn 1 Delver, Thoughtsieze, or Ponder and will not want to hold the mana open. Dunno about the math with Delver but I'm thinking I may want to drop 1 of Tombstalker/Clique for another Spell Snare or removal spell. Again, if I can get my hands on a couple of Snapcasters I may tweak the deck around and see what build I like best. Would be interested to hear some input on my list.
Legacy
GWREnchantressGWR
WXWStaxWXW
GXWMaverickGXW
Draft it on Cube Tutor
I thought about substituting inquisition for thoughtseize out of the board to preserve life my total and still hit their burn spells but I didn't want to dedicate that many slots to discard for 1 matchup when I feel thoughtseize is a strictly better alternative in most matchups.
Don't have deeds online yet, not sure I want to pay the price for them. I tried substituting engineered explosives but I felt like it was a turn too slow whenever I needed it. If I continue to focus solely on this deck I will probably bite the bullet and pick up the deeds.
Thanks for your suggestions
Draft it on Cube Tutor
@ Phuture I run the same deck as you except i run Go for the Throat over Ghastly and I run 22 lands with 2 Ponder. It is working out pretty well for me.
@ Glurman let me know how Reanimate runs, as I think I may give it a try too.
Thanks I will try the hydroblasts. I was also debating about boarding in leyline of sanctity's but am not sure as they can create some awkward mulligan situations to make sure you open with one and it also becomes a dead card if drawn late game as there is no way to hard cast them.
Draft it on Cube Tutor
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Spells: 23
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Unearth
2 Mox Diamond
Plainswalkers: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands: 21
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland
1 Riptide Laboratory
4 Nature's Claim
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Pernicious Deed
I edited my list to fit Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage by packing it with more instants and sorceries. Also, I'm running Mox Diamond so sometimes I can cast and extra spell on t1, but mainly to help flip Delver of Secrets with a t1 Brainstorm.
Brainstorm.
Put nonperm on top.
Resolve Delver's ability.
Flip Delver.
Profit!
It does take a t2 mana, but hell you're attacking with 3 through the air that turn.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
lol, derp. I forgot about that...
Yea Im not so sure about this list either, He seems to be stuck in the middle either you want to play a tempo game and be able to cast your deck for 2 mana or you want to play a more controllish game and play more lands, jace, and EE/Deed. I play a tempo TA and only run 21 lands w/ 4 Wastes but I can cast my entire deck w/ 2 mana and dont have mana issues. Ive tried the other as well but it felt like a worst BUG Still/control deck that was slightly faster but not faster than anything else but with less control (counters/spot removal/CA).
Big Thanks to DNC and all the guys at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig and avvie.
Currently Playing:
Legacy:
BUGBUG DelverGUB
UWRUWR MiraclesRWU
RUGRUG DelverGUR
UUHigh TideUU
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlRWU
UBUB FaeriesBU
BGRJundRGB
URUR StormRU
Standard:
UWUW ControlWU