to be quite frank, chalice main is stone wrong in affinity, this is an aggro deck, not a midrange deck.
there is no reason to slow down a deck whose main draw is to play a swarm strategy. if you play slower than other decks then you allow them to get online, that is not good.
Disciple of the vault is weak (idk if someone was making a claim for running the card but I figured I would chime in with it)
the point of affinity is that it is an engine, every, single, piece. every card in the deck is worth less than the sum of its parts. its why the deck runs memnite and ornithopter. Who in their right mind would run 2 creatures who do almost nothing on their own.
don't get me wrong the deck is still full of cards that are of extremely high impact when they hit the board, but it is because of the rest of the deck making them stronger.
Ravager - only good with artifacts
Etched Champion - only good with artifacts
Plating - only good with artifacts
Tezzeret - only good with... well you get my point
each of those cards has a power level that is almost unmatched when placed in this deck. and people just dont seem to get that.
you can't get cute and lock down your opponents board, the majority of answers in the format are instant speed and they are cheap and effecient, which means cards like tanglewire don't work.
Chalice stops a bulk of the format, but when you look at the whole format there are A LOT of matches where I wouldn't bring in chalice. it usually only comes in against delver and storm (and to a lesser extent elves, but it's not the end all be all. maybe miracles to but its iffy) so if that's the case I don't want to run any less smooth in a blind match up.
anyone running master of etherium at this point hasn't realized that its not the same game anymore, people are playing 4x abrupt decay and as always swords is omnipresent. if you don't want to crumble to removal then something like ravager is just strictly better where the format is now, either they remove it and can't deal with other threats, or they try to deal with other things and just lose card advantage to ravager whenever they interact.
the point is that I believe drew levin came to the most concise affinity build, it hits hard and fast and doesn't get sidetracked with cute things like stoneforge mystic.
because of ancient tomb frogmite (one of my favorite cards ever) isn't as amazing, the strength of frogmite was the immense pressure he allowed, but he leads to awkward openings with tomb instead of another artifact land.
there was recent success with SFM affinity (top 11 scg) and Henry Romero's interesting (personal opinion: horrible) take on affinity (top 8, seattle?) which ran maindeck spell pierce. so there are other avenues to take with affinity. but I think anytime you cut the speed (playing SFM) of this deck or the power cards (romero had 2 champion in the board) then you must be making solely metagame calls, and I don't think that those decks would hold up in an event where the bulk of the players are on the top decks of the format. i.e. break down the day 2 metagame and you can see what a generic open would look like at this point in legacy give or take a few.
specific metagames change this entirely and I in no way disregard that, having changed my sideboard before events based on what I see people playing. but I believe the mainboard I posted earlier, is the absolute 100% way affinity should be built.
sorry for being opinionated.
I think Frogmite is still good enough to be seeing play in some amount, but I agree with pretty much everything else here.
Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it fits what this deck wants to do, and this deck is an aggro-combo deck that can't afford to be running into dead cards.
Suggesting Chalice of the Void in Affinity is like suggesting Force of Will in ANT. Sure, they might be able to run it, but it would severly hamper their game plan in hopes of occasionally disrupting their opponents game plan.
Simply put: Slowing down your game plan 100% of the time is not worth hindering your opponent occationally.
I think Frogmite is still good enough to be seeing play in some amount, but I agree with pretty much everything else here.
Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it fits what this deck wants to do, and this deck is an aggro-combo deck that can't afford to be running into dead cards.
Suggesting Chalice of the Void in Affinity is like suggesting Force of Will in ANT. Sure, they might be able to run it, but it would severly hamper their game plan in hopes of occasionally disrupting their opponents game plan.
Simply put: Slowing down your game plan 100% of the time is not worth hindering your opponent occationally.
now I do think chalice is 100% playable in affinity, but it is purely a SB card, I hope that was not misconstrued. in the match ups where it works, it is the strongest thing you can do. RUG and UWR have absolute no ways to deal with a chalice on one, even if it means you can't cast another springleaf drum that game they can't cast... well, ~30 cards in their decks
now I do think chalice is 100% playable in affinity, but it is purely a SB card, I hope that was not misconstrued. in the match ups where it works, it is the strongest thing you can do. RUG and UWR have absolute no ways to deal with a chalice on one, even if it means you can't cast another springleaf drum that game they can't cast... well, ~30 cards in their decks
Exactly. Even against something like Elves it is a strong SB card, so having some to bring in is a good idea. But it is not for the maindeck, in my opinion.
Now, if the meta was 25% Delver decks and 25% Elves I could see Chalice main deck, but that's not the case, at least for me.
Exactly. Even against something like Elves it is a strong SB card, so having some to bring in is a good idea. But it is not for the maindeck, in my opinion.
Now, if the meta was 25% Delver decks and 25% Elves I could see Chalice main deck, but that's not the case, at least for me.
Exactly! metagames aside chalice is in no way a MD card.
now I do think chalice is 100% playable in affinity, but it is purely a SB card, I hope that was not misconstrued. in the match ups where it works, it is the strongest thing you can do. RUG and UWR have absolute no ways to deal with a chalice on one, even if it means you can't cast another springleaf drum that game they can't cast... well, ~30 cards in their decks
Thank you for that clarification. It's one that I'm inclined to agree with. Chalice is incredibly potent in some matchups. But I definitely prefer it in the sideboard.
I do think Affinity needs a form of interaction maindeck. I think this because Affinity hardly qualifies as aggro-combo anymore. Because we're just not THAT much faster than other aggro decks. And our "combo" pieces are permanents that are vulnerable to the most commonly played removal spells in Legacy. It's no problem for a flipped Delver to race us with the help of a Lightning Bolt to our Vault Skirge or Abrupt Decay to our Cranial Plating.
Realistically, we're only faster than other fair decks when we don't get interrupted by removal or blockers - against combo and control. Against fair decks we inevitably hit the problem of how fragile our free creatures are against good 1 and 2 mana dudes.
We are a faster, but more fragile aggro deck. We have a planeswalker ultimate as an alternate win con. Let's not call that a combo element. Winning by ultimating Jace the Mindsculptor isn't a combo. Let's not call ultimating Tezz a combo. Besides, it is often a correct line of play to - Tezz instead of + ing him upon playing him. Tezz is just a great utility card for the deck that conveniently gives us a nice clock. But ultimating a planeswalker is... well, shouldn't that usually win you a game? That's just the absurd advantage WOTC likes to build into planeswalker ultimates.
I see the future of Affinity being an evolution into adopting the fair deck mindset of having a mild interactive element main while pursuing the aggro strategy.
Thank you for that clarification. It's one that I'm inclined to agree with. Chalice is incredibly potent in some matchups. But I definitely prefer it in the sideboard.
I do think Affinity needs a form of interaction maindeck. I think this because Affinity hardly qualifies as aggro-combo anymore. Because we're just not THAT much faster than other aggro decks. And our "combo" pieces are permanents that are vulnerable to the most commonly played removal spells in Legacy. It's no problem for a flipped Delver to race us with the help of a Lightning Bolt to our Vault Skirge or Abrupt Decay to our Cranial Plating.
Realistically, we're only faster than other fair decks when we don't get interrupted by removal or blockers - against combo and control. Against fair decks we inevitably hit the problem of how fragile our free creatures are against good 1 and 2 mana dudes.
We are a faster, but more fragile aggro deck. We have a planeswalker ultimate as an alternate win con. Let's not call that a combo element. Winning by ultimating Jace the Mindsculptor isn't a combo. Let's not call ultimating Tezz a combo. Besides, it is often a correct line of play to - Tezz instead of + ing him upon playing him. Tezz is just a great utility card for the deck that conveniently gives us a nice clock. But ultimating a planeswalker is... well, shouldn't that usually win you a game? That's just the absurd advantage WOTC likes to build into planeswalker ultimates.
I see the future of Affinity being an evolution into adopting the fair deck mindset of having a mild interactive element main while pursuing the aggro strategy.
When I mentioned combo as a facet of Affinity, I was more refering to Cranial Plating and Arcbound Ravager. I know I'm in the minority, but I think Galvanic Blast is better than Tezz for this deck. It adds some interaction to the deck in that it can get rid of, as you call them, "pesky blockers", opposing efficent threats like Delver, and simply reach out and smack your opponent in 4 damage chunks.
Not to mention it enables Whipflare in the board, which is hugh in creature matchups, and Pyroblast, one of the best SB cards in Legacy.
Thank you for that clarification. It's one that I'm inclined to agree with. Chalice is incredibly potent in some matchups. But I definitely prefer it in the sideboard.
I do think Affinity needs a form of interaction maindeck. I think this because Affinity hardly qualifies as aggro-combo anymore. Because we're just not THAT much faster than other aggro decks. And our "combo" pieces are permanents that are vulnerable to the most commonly played removal spells in Legacy. It's no problem for a flipped Delver to race us with the help of a Lightning Bolt to our Vault Skirge or Abrupt Decay to our Cranial Plating.
Realistically, we're only faster than other fair decks when we don't get interrupted by removal or blockers - against combo and control. Against fair decks we inevitably hit the problem of how fragile our free creatures are against good 1 and 2 mana dudes.
We are a faster, but more fragile aggro deck. We have a planeswalker ultimate as an alternate win con. Let's not call that a combo element. Winning by ultimating Jace the Mindsculptor isn't a combo. Let's not call ultimating Tezz a combo. Besides, it is often a correct line of play to - Tezz instead of + ing him upon playing him. Tezz is just a great utility card for the deck that conveniently gives us a nice clock. But ultimating a planeswalker is... well, shouldn't that usually win you a game? That's just the absurd advantage WOTC likes to build into planeswalker ultimates.
I see the future of Affinity being an evolution into adopting the fair deck mindset of having a mild interactive element main while pursuing the aggro strategy.
and as to the issue of removal and blockers, make them have it. if they decay plating just shrug your shoulders and turn em sideways, you were going to do it anyways.
being defensive with affinity only happens in 2 situations
A) you're on the back foot, and if thats the case you probably lost by not setting the pace anymore.
B) you are attempting to set up a tezz ult turn.
you can't play around lightning bolt against rug delver, you just can't. you are the aggro deck, they have 4 bolts, 8-12 counters and stifle and you have 24 creatures, 3 planeswalkers, and 4 cranial platings. if they draw that good they do. but im not playing around a 4 of. same goes for abrupt decay. same goes for swords to plowshares. if they have the removal spell then they have it.
as for maindeck interaction there was a recent IQ in NY that put 2 affinity players in the t8 with MD spell pierce a la Romero's deck from the open, but it's hard to imagine playing that card since it really only amounts to a "gotcha" moment half the time.
Ill also say that affinity is just a pure aggro deck. in a world of eldrazi and flying insects little robots are the closest thing to being "fair" well aside from tezzeret, and plating, and ravager... yup fair.
the idea of it being a combo is a farce.
Also not going to lie this post may be completely out of whack and off the rails I wrote it over the course of 20 minutes while bouncing around online, it's just my thoughts while doing so. Sorry! > .>
I think you may be confusing being on the defensive with having interactive cards in your deck. They are not the same thing. That is exactly why decks that play answers can be classified as aggro. Having an answer often allows you to remove whatever obstacle would have prevented you from continuing to apply pressure. Answers can make it more possible for you to be more aggro than if your deck is nothing but dudes ("pure" aggro). After all, if you choose to swing that Memnite into Tarmogoyf, then you don't know how to play aggro at all.
It's not just about other fair decks getting lucky enough to pull answers. That's not my argument at all. My point is that they enjoy more success precisely because they are NOT pure aggro. Because that is just good strategy right now - to have interaction. WOTC is purposefully pushing interaction in Magic. It will only become a more ingrained trend from here on out. And creatures have been pushed to such power levels that Affinity really hardly has any speed element left to capitalize on after you account for how fragile our creatures are and how easily they become invalidated on the battlefield by something as simple as a 1 mana Delver or Mongoose.
Affinity does not have the speed advantage it once did. And when someone Decays a Plating it is blind arrogance to say they got lucky instead of saying they knew well enough to save it for the real threat in the deck.
The nature of Affinity leaves it few spots for such interactive cards, however. This is the challenge. To find the right kind of interaction that is versatile enough and potent enough (at least for game 1) that a mere 3-4 mainboard slots is enough to provide the needed boost to tempo interaction.
We cannot afford the attitude of "if they have an answer I fold" to be our dominant mindset. That is combo logic, not aggro logic. And we're not overwhelmingly powerful enough to be considered combo. Particularly, when answers to us are easy, cheap, and plentiful. It's not about "playing around RUG's Bolts" at all. Of course you need to swing in the game. Again, that's not my argument. You don't try to play around Bolt in gameplay. You account for things like Bolt in your DECK CONSTRUCTION. That is how you compensate. You build in the answer into your strategy. Not make suboptimal plays with a deck strategy not designed to cope with interaction. Again, don't confuse interacting with your opponent with being defensive. That is a huge error in mindset to make.
To find the right kind of interaction that is versatile enough and potent enough (at least for game 1) that a mere 3-4 mainboard slots is enough to provide the needed boost to tempo interaction.
Phyrexian revoker has been pretty good at this for me. It's rare to find a deck that doesn't use at least one permanent with an activated ability, even if it's just a sensei's divining top, and it also contributes to the aggro gameplan.
Phyrexian revoker has been pretty good at this for me. It's rare to find a deck that doesn't use at least one permanent with an activated ability, even if it's just a sensei's divining top, and it also contributes to the aggro gameplan.
That is exactly the kind of play that I'm talking about. A very useful, versatile card that pushes the aggro plan and builds artifact count all at the same time.
From a "pure" aggro perspective Porcelain Legionnaire would be a better pick. But a card like Revoker shows the direction we need to think about being in, I think. Still aggressive enough to apply pressure. Synergizes with the rest of the deck. And provides a form of interacting with other deck's strategies.
The thing about Paradise Mantel that no one has pointed out yet is that you can tap a different creature with Drum each turn. You can cast a creature and immediately tap it for mana with drum, with Mantel you are stuck using the same creature over and over again. This has several draw-backs, from making board-wipe recovery harder to forcing you to choose between swinging and producing mana. I think Mantel is worse because it limits your options.
It seems solid except for the lack of thoughtcast. I do like the fact that it maximizes the number of 4-ofs to increase consistency, but I'm not sure that counteracts the lack of draw spells.
I think the same thing I did about the list that ran main Spell Pierce awhile back. I think it just proves that Affinity needs a maindeck, versatile, interactive element to optimally compete in Legacy. Thoughtseize is very similar to Spell Pierce in that regard.
It seems solid except for the lack of thoughtcast. I do like the fact that it maximizes the number of 4-ofs to increase consistency, but I'm not sure that counteracts the lack of draw spells.
It actually is 4 Thoughtcast instead of the 4 Thoughtseize, the deck listing is in error. See the coverage articles:
Here's a link to the stream. I played a match at about 22:00 and did a deck tech somewhere at about 2:00:00 in case you guys want to watch. Anyway, here's my write up:
Round 1 - U/R Delver
This match was just really bad. I had a bad mull to 6 game 1. He had a lot of burn on hand to keep my early game dudes off the field, and I couldn't get enough mana to cast anything relevant thanks to an inactive mox opal and wastelands. Also, grim lavamancer wrecked me here. Can't remember if he came out both games, but it was not pretty. Game 2 I kept a bad hand and proceeded to lose pretty quickly to two delvers while not having any resources on the board.
Round 2 - R/W taxes
Luckily, my round 1 loss placed me against a relatively easy opponent. She was playing a sub-par deck and didn't have a whole lot of experience (she missed aether vial triggers twice in game 2). Game 1, I kept another bad hand and punted, loss quickly due to not being able to cast anything thanks to thalia. Game 2, swiftly pummeled her with beats, and same in game 3. Thalia is pretty good against affinity in most cases, but I got good starts both games 2 and 3 and was able to play around her.
Round 3 - Death and Taxes
All these games were pretty tough. Game 1 I had to play around phyrexian revoked naming plating, luckily, I was still able to finish him off relatively quickly with multiple EC's. Game 2, I got out-raced, and killed me with some aggro threats: serra avenger, flickerwhisp, SFM with a batterskull that I had to block with EC. Game 3, I was able to control his aether vial, his jitte, and disenchant his phyrexian revoker, and I was able to eventually overwhelm him with 2 EC's and a cranial plating.
Round 4 - Dredge (Feature match)
I got really lucky this round. I started with EC and 3 mox opals with some fast mana. I got in some early beats with a MoE and EC, plus a frogmite. He goes to reanimate Flamekin zealot for the kill, but I hit kill my own frogmite in response to exile the bridge from below's and he's stuck with a flame kin zealot. I take him down to 8 and pass. He reanimates griselbrand on his turn. I top deck a MoE, swing for 4 with EC, then galv blast him for the win. Game 2, I was looking pretty dead, but he accidentally killed himself with his own griselbrand. Like I said, I got really lucky.
Round 5 - UW(r) Countertop
Game 1, I just got there. Got plenty of aggro threats, and killed him with a EC with a plating on it before he could stop me completely. Game 2, I had a good start, but a terminus and well placed wear // tear on my plating kept me out of the game long enough to lose to his own beats. Game 3 was pretty even. He terminus'ed me again, but I held back a second EC. He sided out forces, so it resolved, thankfully. Luckily, I had his top pithed with pithing needle and he couldn't reliably counter my spells. I resolved a Tezzeret, +1, pass, next turn -4 for the win in game 3.
Quarter Finals - U/R Delver
I ended up playing against the same guy in round 1. Since I went into the top 8 in first place, I got to choose whether to play or draw. I had a sick start, had a lot of pressure on the board, and he almost stabilized, but even though he went through a lot of cards digging for land, he only hand 1 land in play for the majority of the game. By the time he had 2 lands out, I played a thoughtcast, he double dazed, but I payed through it, drew 2 more dudes to tap with springleaf drum and killed him with a galv blast to the face. Game 2, he mulled to 4. Although I didn't have the best start, he got stuck with far less and I won again.
Semifinals - Bant
Game 1, I got a pretty good start, killed his turn 1 deathrite with an open mox opal and a galv blast, played a turn 2 plating on my vault skirge. Played an EC turn 3, and he didn't counter it. I won on turn 4. Game 2, he was able to keep the board more under control. I didn't top deck very well, and he was able to green sun's zenith for qasali pridemage and keep me under pressure till I fell apart. I was able to disenchant his batterskull, but did not good since I didn't really draw enough to fight back. Game 3 I had an amazing start. I played 3 thoughtcasts in the first 2 turns chaining off of opals. Unfortunately, I only drew mana sources, and the only non-mana spells were spell pierce, galv blast, memnite and an ornithopter...plus the thoughtcasts. I didn't draw anything else, and proceeded to lose to batterskull and friends before I even drew a single relevant threat.
So, won 6 matches, lost 2. Came in 3rd overall and went home with a force of will as a prize. Wish I had brought more hate against controlly decks (SFM package?), but I was still happy with the results. I thought about playing B/W stoneblade instead, but affinity is just too much fun. Overall, I played pretty well and sideboarded well, too. Round 1 was the only exception to that.
So I've been playing Affinity for a couple years, and recently added in Stoneforge Mystic. I've really been liking running essentially 7 Cranial Platings, but lately the deck just hasn't been doing as well as it used to. I can reliably go 2/2 in our four round events but I haven't managed to go 3/1 since November. We have a healthy and diverse meta and usually get 12-18 people to show.
I figured I'd post my current list and see what people have to say. I'm pretty open to criticism and changes, though if at all possible I'd like to continue running at least one copy of Baleful Strix. He's been possibly my favorite creature since he was spoiled in Planechase.
Sideboard Choices:
1 Phyrexian Revoker: Lions Eye Diamond/Jitte/Pernicious Deed hate. Also one guy always brings painter grindstone
3 Ethersworn Canonist: Fast Combo
2 Oblivion Ring: Sneak and Show and Jitte
2 Zealous Persecution: True Name Nemesis and the couple folks who play elves
3 Swan Song: Fast Combo/Pernicious Deed
1 Sword of Light and Shadow: Lot of Death and Taxes cropping up the past couple months
1 Grafdigger's Cage: Graveyard hate, also natural order and green sun's zenith for Elves and Nic Fit
2 Tormod's Crypt: Graveyard Hate
Lately it's been Omni-tell and Sneak and Show variants. I just cannot deal with turn 2 or 3 Emrakul. Elves are also a tough match up, and another friend built a surprisingly strong 5 color tokens deck powered by Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. These swarms of dudes and the arrival of everyone's favorite mini-Progenitus Merfolk inspired me to start running Zealous Persecution in the board. Prison/Stompy decks can go either way, though win or lose Death and Taxes is just a miserable 45 minutes of magic.
With Merfolk, Shardless Bug, Jund, Maverick, Stoneblade, and Delver decks I can often win, and if I lose it's still a fun interactive game so I don't feel bad about it. Dredge and Reanimator are easy enough to hate out. Arcbound Ravager is main deck Bridge from Below hate, who knew? L.E.D fueled combo decks just roll over me the first game but I can interact pretty well post board for games 2 or 3.
Casual Cube EDH: UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness BGW Ghave's Garden WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count Vintage: URWelder WUBRG Dredge Kitchen Table: B Zombies in Your Head
So I've been playing Affinity for a couple years, and recently added in Stoneforge Mystic. I've really been liking running essentially 7 Cranial Platings, but lately the deck just hasn't been doing as well as it used to. I can reliably go 2/2 in our four round events but I haven't managed to go 3/1 since November. We have a healthy and diverse meta and usually get 12-18 people to show.
I figured I'd post my current list and see what people have to say. I'm pretty open to criticism and changes, though if at all possible I'd like to continue running at least one copy of Baleful Strix. He's been possibly my favorite creature since he was spoiled in Planechase.
Sideboard Choices:
1 Phyrexian Revoker: Lions Eye Diamond/Jitte/Pernicious Deed hate. Also one guy always brings painter grindstone
3 Ethersworn Canonist: Fast Combo
2 Oblivion Ring: Sneak and Show and Jitte
2 Zealous Persecution: True Name Nemesis and the couple folks who play elves
3 Swan Song: Fast Combo/Pernicious Deed
1 Sword of Light and Shadow: Lot of Death and Taxes cropping up the past couple months
1 Grafdigger's Cage: Graveyard hate, also natural order and green sun's zenith for Elves and Nic Fit
2 Tormod's Crypt: Graveyard Hate
Lately it's been Omni-tell and Sneak and Show variants. I just cannot deal with turn 2 or 3 Emrakul. Elves are also a tough match up, and another friend built a surprisingly strong 5 color tokens deck powered by Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. These swarms of dudes and the arrival of everyone's favorite mini-Progenitus Merfolk inspired me to start running Zealous Persecution in the board. Prison/Stompy decks can go either way, though win or lose Death and Taxes is just a miserable 45 minutes of magic.
With Merfolk, Shardless Bug, Jund, Maverick, Stoneblade, and Delver decks I can often win, and if I lose it's still a fun interactive game so I don't feel bad about it. Dredge and Reanimator are easy enough to hate out. Arcbound Ravager is main deck Bridge from Below hate, who knew? L.E.D fueled combo decks just roll over me the first game but I can interact pretty well post board for games 2 or 3.
Though I'm fairly new to Legacy, this the SB I've been thinking of running for my Affinity deck:
I was worried about Show and Tell, but I thought that Meddling Mage would be a good SB option for it, as well as helping me vs. ANT/Storm. Chalice for 1 to shut off cantrip cards also seemed strong to me. Not sure about how to deal with the Sneak Attack aspect of the Sneak and Show though...
Not sure if I like Whipflare in the SB, as it doesn't deal with TNN. Was thinking either Zealous Persecution or Golgari Charm might be a better option, and the Charm could help me out vs. Sneak Attack.
I was worried about Show and Tell, but I thought that Meddling Mage would be a good SB option for it, as well as helping me vs. ANT/Storm. Chalice for 1 to shut off cantrip cards also seemed strong to me. Not sure about how to deal with the Sneak Attack aspect of the Sneak and Show though...
Not sure if I like Whipflare in the SB, as it doesn't deal with TNN. Was thinking either Zealous Persecution or Golgari Charm might be a better option, and the Charm could help me out vs. Sneak Attack.
Pithing Needle is your answer to Sneak Attack. Show and Tell on the other hand...maybe Oblivion Ring or Meekstone.
only had a player base of 19 total but here were my matches and some quick bits about what happened
Round 1: Dredge
Got beat before i could do anything relevant. i knew a dredge deck would be there but decided against grave hate. misplayed game 1 by not casting ravager turn 2 which is when i lost. i could've gotten rid of his bridges if ravager was in play.
game 2 i had a hand with tomb and ravager but opted for a better hand which helped to my downfall
LOST
ROund 2: ANT
Won game 1 no problem but hadn't seen enough of the opponent to know what deck to put him on but he had enough discard for me to side leyline.
game 2 i had 2 leylines and 2 memnites. risked it, got him to 1 but he managed to win, bouncing both leylines to my hand.
game 3, got another leyline opening hand and enough aggro to hold him off, he was one mana short of getting me. never got canonist out but with leyline each of last 2 games, didn't want to risk a mulligan.
WON
Round 3: Sneak and show (best round)
Game 1 i aggroed fast before opponent could do anything but i knew what deck he played.
Game 2. lost to a turn 2 Emrakul.
Game 3. Got chalice for 0 turn 1, then chalice for 1 turn 2. super lucky and blew him out for the win.
WON
Round 4: BUG control
lost both games to him having more control. abrupt decays and enough goyfs made all my cards pointless. plus forces etc.
LOST
Round 5: Stax
Game 1 i got a super fast start and won no problem.
Game 2 he mulliganed to 4 and still had nothing. easy win.
Made it to 7th seat and had to play against the Dredge opponent from round 1. game 1 he got me quickly again with griselbrand. and game 2 i got him to 1 but ichorids and zombies got the best of me.
all in all i ended up in 7th place at the end. i was happy with my play and next time i'll be better prepared for dredge with tormods crypt or nihl spellbomb. but Bug control is the real issue.If any one knows a better side for bug control i would be in your debt hehe. feel free to ask any questions. would love to help sideboard any way possible.
P.S. i know the singleton confidant may seem wierd, but my deck has a theme of foil and non english and i have a foil italian confidant. plus everytime i get him, he is amazing with the low cmc of most spells.
I think Frogmite is still good enough to be seeing play in some amount, but I agree with pretty much everything else here.
Just because a card is strong doesn't mean it fits what this deck wants to do, and this deck is an aggro-combo deck that can't afford to be running into dead cards.
Suggesting Chalice of the Void in Affinity is like suggesting Force of Will in ANT. Sure, they might be able to run it, but it would severly hamper their game plan in hopes of occasionally disrupting their opponents game plan.
Simply put: Slowing down your game plan 100% of the time is not worth hindering your opponent occationally.
now I do think chalice is 100% playable in affinity, but it is purely a SB card, I hope that was not misconstrued. in the match ups where it works, it is the strongest thing you can do. RUG and UWR have absolute no ways to deal with a chalice on one, even if it means you can't cast another springleaf drum that game they can't cast... well, ~30 cards in their decks
Exactly. Even against something like Elves it is a strong SB card, so having some to bring in is a good idea. But it is not for the maindeck, in my opinion.
Now, if the meta was 25% Delver decks and 25% Elves I could see Chalice main deck, but that's not the case, at least for me.
Exactly! metagames aside chalice is in no way a MD card.
Thank you for that clarification. It's one that I'm inclined to agree with. Chalice is incredibly potent in some matchups. But I definitely prefer it in the sideboard.
I do think Affinity needs a form of interaction maindeck. I think this because Affinity hardly qualifies as aggro-combo anymore. Because we're just not THAT much faster than other aggro decks. And our "combo" pieces are permanents that are vulnerable to the most commonly played removal spells in Legacy. It's no problem for a flipped Delver to race us with the help of a Lightning Bolt to our Vault Skirge or Abrupt Decay to our Cranial Plating.
Realistically, we're only faster than other fair decks when we don't get interrupted by removal or blockers - against combo and control. Against fair decks we inevitably hit the problem of how fragile our free creatures are against good 1 and 2 mana dudes.
We are a faster, but more fragile aggro deck. We have a planeswalker ultimate as an alternate win con. Let's not call that a combo element. Winning by ultimating Jace the Mindsculptor isn't a combo. Let's not call ultimating Tezz a combo. Besides, it is often a correct line of play to - Tezz instead of + ing him upon playing him. Tezz is just a great utility card for the deck that conveniently gives us a nice clock. But ultimating a planeswalker is... well, shouldn't that usually win you a game? That's just the absurd advantage WOTC likes to build into planeswalker ultimates.
I see the future of Affinity being an evolution into adopting the fair deck mindset of having a mild interactive element main while pursuing the aggro strategy.
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When I mentioned combo as a facet of Affinity, I was more refering to Cranial Plating and Arcbound Ravager. I know I'm in the minority, but I think Galvanic Blast is better than Tezz for this deck. It adds some interaction to the deck in that it can get rid of, as you call them, "pesky blockers", opposing efficent threats like Delver, and simply reach out and smack your opponent in 4 damage chunks.
Not to mention it enables Whipflare in the board, which is hugh in creature matchups, and Pyroblast, one of the best SB cards in Legacy.
what are the aggro decks in the format.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=734
my honest opinion is to say that the bulk of these decks are garbage, or in the wrong section.
and as to the issue of removal and blockers, make them have it. if they decay plating just shrug your shoulders and turn em sideways, you were going to do it anyways.
being defensive with affinity only happens in 2 situations
A) you're on the back foot, and if thats the case you probably lost by not setting the pace anymore.
B) you are attempting to set up a tezz ult turn.
you can't play around lightning bolt against rug delver, you just can't. you are the aggro deck, they have 4 bolts, 8-12 counters and stifle and you have 24 creatures, 3 planeswalkers, and 4 cranial platings. if they draw that good they do. but im not playing around a 4 of. same goes for abrupt decay. same goes for swords to plowshares. if they have the removal spell then they have it.
as for maindeck interaction there was a recent IQ in NY that put 2 affinity players in the t8 with MD spell pierce a la Romero's deck from the open, but it's hard to imagine playing that card since it really only amounts to a "gotcha" moment half the time.
Ill also say that affinity is just a pure aggro deck. in a world of eldrazi and flying insects little robots are the closest thing to being "fair" well aside from tezzeret, and plating, and ravager... yup fair.
the idea of it being a combo is a farce.
Also not going to lie this post may be completely out of whack and off the rails I wrote it over the course of 20 minutes while bouncing around online, it's just my thoughts while doing so. Sorry! > .>
It's not just about other fair decks getting lucky enough to pull answers. That's not my argument at all. My point is that they enjoy more success precisely because they are NOT pure aggro. Because that is just good strategy right now - to have interaction. WOTC is purposefully pushing interaction in Magic. It will only become a more ingrained trend from here on out. And creatures have been pushed to such power levels that Affinity really hardly has any speed element left to capitalize on after you account for how fragile our creatures are and how easily they become invalidated on the battlefield by something as simple as a 1 mana Delver or Mongoose.
Affinity does not have the speed advantage it once did. And when someone Decays a Plating it is blind arrogance to say they got lucky instead of saying they knew well enough to save it for the real threat in the deck.
The nature of Affinity leaves it few spots for such interactive cards, however. This is the challenge. To find the right kind of interaction that is versatile enough and potent enough (at least for game 1) that a mere 3-4 mainboard slots is enough to provide the needed boost to tempo interaction.
We cannot afford the attitude of "if they have an answer I fold" to be our dominant mindset. That is combo logic, not aggro logic. And we're not overwhelmingly powerful enough to be considered combo. Particularly, when answers to us are easy, cheap, and plentiful. It's not about "playing around RUG's Bolts" at all. Of course you need to swing in the game. Again, that's not my argument. You don't try to play around Bolt in gameplay. You account for things like Bolt in your DECK CONSTRUCTION. That is how you compensate. You build in the answer into your strategy. Not make suboptimal plays with a deck strategy not designed to cope with interaction. Again, don't confuse interacting with your opponent with being defensive. That is a huge error in mindset to make.
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HumansRW(Standard)
Phyrexian revoker has been pretty good at this for me. It's rare to find a deck that doesn't use at least one permanent with an activated ability, even if it's just a sensei's divining top, and it also contributes to the aggro gameplan.
That is exactly the kind of play that I'm talking about. A very useful, versatile card that pushes the aggro plan and builds artifact count all at the same time.
From a "pure" aggro perspective Porcelain Legionnaire would be a better pick. But a card like Revoker shows the direction we need to think about being in, I think. Still aggressive enough to apply pressure. Synergizes with the rest of the deck. And provides a form of interacting with other deck's strategies.
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4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Valut Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
2 Frogmite
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast
3 Seat of Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Whipfire
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Cursed Totem
4 Chalice of the Void
The thing about Paradise Mantel that no one has pointed out yet is that you can tap a different creature with Drum each turn. You can cast a creature and immediately tap it for mana with drum, with Mantel you are stuck using the same creature over and over again. This has several draw-backs, from making board-wipe recovery harder to forcing you to choose between swinging and producing mana. I think Mantel is worse because it limits your options.
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Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Hey, I run Frogmite still, only 2 right now, but I've gone as high as 4 before.
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It seems solid except for the lack of thoughtcast. I do like the fact that it maximizes the number of 4-ofs to increase consistency, but I'm not sure that counteracts the lack of draw spells.
I think the same thing I did about the list that ran main Spell Pierce awhile back. I think it just proves that Affinity needs a maindeck, versatile, interactive element to optimally compete in Legacy. Thoughtseize is very similar to Spell Pierce in that regard.
Not sure I like the Academy Ruins. I suppose it gets back Cranial Plating...
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It actually is 4 Thoughtcast instead of the 4 Thoughtseize, the deck listing is in error. See the coverage articles:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/quarterfinals_denny_chan_vs_ia.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/semifinals_ian_anderson_vs_cha.html
Ah, well that changes things significantly. lol
In that case, it's a pretty stock list except for the Academy Ruins. Only thing really worth noting is the presence of Arcbound Ravager over Master of Etherium and the decision to run Signal Pest (which is sometimes contested).
Also notable that Spell Pierce is in the side in this list instead of main like the last SCG Affinity list.
I don't like Rest in Peace over artifact based grave hate in the sideboard.
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Tournament report from an event I played in yesterday. 24 people, 25$ entry, 4 Fow prize out.
Here's the list I played
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Vault Skirge
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
Spells (22)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Mox opal
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Glimmervoid
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's crypt
2 Spell pierce
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant
Here's a link to the stream. I played a match at about 22:00 and did a deck tech somewhere at about 2:00:00 in case you guys want to watch. Anyway, here's my write up:
Round 1 - U/R Delver
This match was just really bad. I had a bad mull to 6 game 1. He had a lot of burn on hand to keep my early game dudes off the field, and I couldn't get enough mana to cast anything relevant thanks to an inactive mox opal and wastelands. Also, grim lavamancer wrecked me here. Can't remember if he came out both games, but it was not pretty. Game 2 I kept a bad hand and proceeded to lose pretty quickly to two delvers while not having any resources on the board.
Round 2 - R/W taxes
Luckily, my round 1 loss placed me against a relatively easy opponent. She was playing a sub-par deck and didn't have a whole lot of experience (she missed aether vial triggers twice in game 2). Game 1, I kept another bad hand and punted, loss quickly due to not being able to cast anything thanks to thalia. Game 2, swiftly pummeled her with beats, and same in game 3. Thalia is pretty good against affinity in most cases, but I got good starts both games 2 and 3 and was able to play around her.
Round 3 - Death and Taxes
All these games were pretty tough. Game 1 I had to play around phyrexian revoked naming plating, luckily, I was still able to finish him off relatively quickly with multiple EC's. Game 2, I got out-raced, and killed me with some aggro threats: serra avenger, flickerwhisp, SFM with a batterskull that I had to block with EC. Game 3, I was able to control his aether vial, his jitte, and disenchant his phyrexian revoker, and I was able to eventually overwhelm him with 2 EC's and a cranial plating.
Round 4 - Dredge (Feature match)
I got really lucky this round. I started with EC and 3 mox opals with some fast mana. I got in some early beats with a MoE and EC, plus a frogmite. He goes to reanimate Flamekin zealot for the kill, but I hit kill my own frogmite in response to exile the bridge from below's and he's stuck with a flame kin zealot. I take him down to 8 and pass. He reanimates griselbrand on his turn. I top deck a MoE, swing for 4 with EC, then galv blast him for the win. Game 2, I was looking pretty dead, but he accidentally killed himself with his own griselbrand. Like I said, I got really lucky.
Round 5 - UW(r) Countertop
Game 1, I just got there. Got plenty of aggro threats, and killed him with a EC with a plating on it before he could stop me completely. Game 2, I had a good start, but a terminus and well placed wear // tear on my plating kept me out of the game long enough to lose to his own beats. Game 3 was pretty even. He terminus'ed me again, but I held back a second EC. He sided out forces, so it resolved, thankfully. Luckily, I had his top pithed with pithing needle and he couldn't reliably counter my spells. I resolved a Tezzeret, +1, pass, next turn -4 for the win in game 3.
Quarter Finals - U/R Delver
I ended up playing against the same guy in round 1. Since I went into the top 8 in first place, I got to choose whether to play or draw. I had a sick start, had a lot of pressure on the board, and he almost stabilized, but even though he went through a lot of cards digging for land, he only hand 1 land in play for the majority of the game. By the time he had 2 lands out, I played a thoughtcast, he double dazed, but I payed through it, drew 2 more dudes to tap with springleaf drum and killed him with a galv blast to the face. Game 2, he mulled to 4. Although I didn't have the best start, he got stuck with far less and I won again.
Semifinals - Bant
Game 1, I got a pretty good start, killed his turn 1 deathrite with an open mox opal and a galv blast, played a turn 2 plating on my vault skirge. Played an EC turn 3, and he didn't counter it. I won on turn 4. Game 2, he was able to keep the board more under control. I didn't top deck very well, and he was able to green sun's zenith for qasali pridemage and keep me under pressure till I fell apart. I was able to disenchant his batterskull, but did not good since I didn't really draw enough to fight back. Game 3 I had an amazing start. I played 3 thoughtcasts in the first 2 turns chaining off of opals. Unfortunately, I only drew mana sources, and the only non-mana spells were spell pierce, galv blast, memnite and an ornithopter...plus the thoughtcasts. I didn't draw anything else, and proceeded to lose to batterskull and friends before I even drew a single relevant threat.
So, won 6 matches, lost 2. Came in 3rd overall and went home with a force of will as a prize. Wish I had brought more hate against controlly decks (SFM package?), but I was still happy with the results. I thought about playing B/W stoneblade instead, but affinity is just too much fun. Overall, I played pretty well and sideboarded well, too. Round 1 was the only exception to that.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
I figured I'd post my current list and see what people have to say. I'm pretty open to criticism and changes, though if at all possible I'd like to continue running at least one copy of Baleful Strix. He's been possibly my favorite creature since he was spoiled in Planechase.
4 Ornithopter
2 Signal Pest
2 Vault Skirge
2 Arcbound Ravager
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Baleful Strix
4 Etched Champion
Other Spells: 22
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Batterskull
4 Cranial Plating
3 Dispatch
4 Thoughtcast
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
1 Academy Ruins
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Glimmervoid
3 Ancient Den
3 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Swan Song
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Tormod's Crypt
Sideboard Choices:
1 Phyrexian Revoker: Lions Eye Diamond/Jitte/Pernicious Deed hate. Also one guy always brings painter grindstone
3 Ethersworn Canonist: Fast Combo
2 Oblivion Ring: Sneak and Show and Jitte
2 Zealous Persecution: True Name Nemesis and the couple folks who play elves
3 Swan Song: Fast Combo/Pernicious Deed
1 Sword of Light and Shadow: Lot of Death and Taxes cropping up the past couple months
1 Grafdigger's Cage: Graveyard hate, also natural order and green sun's zenith for Elves and Nic Fit
2 Tormod's Crypt: Graveyard Hate
Lately it's been Omni-tell and Sneak and Show variants. I just cannot deal with turn 2 or 3 Emrakul. Elves are also a tough match up, and another friend built a surprisingly strong 5 color tokens deck powered by Young Pyromancer and Lingering Souls. These swarms of dudes and the arrival of everyone's favorite mini-Progenitus Merfolk inspired me to start running Zealous Persecution in the board. Prison/Stompy decks can go either way, though win or lose Death and Taxes is just a miserable 45 minutes of magic.
With Merfolk, Shardless Bug, Jund, Maverick, Stoneblade, and Delver decks I can often win, and if I lose it's still a fun interactive game so I don't feel bad about it. Dredge and Reanimator are easy enough to hate out. Arcbound Ravager is main deck Bridge from Below hate, who knew? L.E.D fueled combo decks just roll over me the first game but I can interact pretty well post board for games 2 or 3.
EDH:
UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness
BGW Ghave's Garden
WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count
Vintage:
URWelder
WUBRG Dredge
Kitchen Table:
B Zombies in Your Head
Though I'm fairly new to Legacy, this the SB I've been thinking of running for my Affinity deck:
3 Meddling Mage
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Whipflare
1 Engineered Plague
2 Ethersworn Canonist
I was worried about Show and Tell, but I thought that Meddling Mage would be a good SB option for it, as well as helping me vs. ANT/Storm. Chalice for 1 to shut off cantrip cards also seemed strong to me. Not sure about how to deal with the Sneak Attack aspect of the Sneak and Show though...
Not sure if I like Whipflare in the SB, as it doesn't deal with TNN. Was thinking either Zealous Persecution or Golgari Charm might be a better option, and the Charm could help me out vs. Sneak Attack.
Probably just jitte. Cranial plating on vault skirge is better than batterskull for all intensive purposes.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
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Pithing Needle is your answer to Sneak Attack. Show and Tell on the other hand...maybe Oblivion Ring or Meekstone.
Heroic
Modern
Infect, Burn, Storm
Legacy
Eternal Garden, RUG Delver, ANT, Doomsday, Reanimator, Infect
My catch all sideboard
3 dispatch
3 natures claim
1 tormod's crypt
1 nihil spellbomb
1 relic of progenitus
1 graftdiggers cage
2 pithing needle
Since i use mystics, if I have a good feel of the meta I might include jitte and sword of fire and ice
On a similar topic, what cards do you guys find yourself sideboarding out more often ?
I use masters of etherium so I do take them out a lot, also the ravager in some match ups.
What is the most general play?
What Class Are You?
I normally side out tezz and signal pest the most.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
2 glimmervoid
1 academy of ruins
Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 vault skirge
4 memnite
4 ornithopter
4 signal pest
3 etched champion
3 frogmite
1 dark confidant
4 Mox opal
4 springleaf drum
4 cranial plating
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas
4 thoughtcast
4 Nature's claim
4 ethersworn canonist
3 leyline of sanctity
2 chalice of the void
2 apostle's blessing
only had a player base of 19 total but here were my matches and some quick bits about what happened
Round 1: Dredge
Got beat before i could do anything relevant. i knew a dredge deck would be there but decided against grave hate. misplayed game 1 by not casting ravager turn 2 which is when i lost. i could've gotten rid of his bridges if ravager was in play.
game 2 i had a hand with tomb and ravager but opted for a better hand which helped to my downfall
LOST
ROund 2: ANT
Won game 1 no problem but hadn't seen enough of the opponent to know what deck to put him on but he had enough discard for me to side leyline.
game 2 i had 2 leylines and 2 memnites. risked it, got him to 1 but he managed to win, bouncing both leylines to my hand.
game 3, got another leyline opening hand and enough aggro to hold him off, he was one mana short of getting me. never got canonist out but with leyline each of last 2 games, didn't want to risk a mulligan.
WON
Round 3: Sneak and show (best round)
Game 1 i aggroed fast before opponent could do anything but i knew what deck he played.
Game 2. lost to a turn 2 Emrakul.
Game 3. Got chalice for 0 turn 1, then chalice for 1 turn 2. super lucky and blew him out for the win.
WON
Round 4: BUG control
lost both games to him having more control. abrupt decays and enough goyfs made all my cards pointless. plus forces etc.
LOST
Round 5: Stax
Game 1 i got a super fast start and won no problem.
Game 2 he mulliganed to 4 and still had nothing. easy win.
Made it to 7th seat and had to play against the Dredge opponent from round 1. game 1 he got me quickly again with griselbrand. and game 2 i got him to 1 but ichorids and zombies got the best of me.
all in all i ended up in 7th place at the end. i was happy with my play and next time i'll be better prepared for dredge with tormods crypt or nihl spellbomb. but Bug control is the real issue.If any one knows a better side for bug control i would be in your debt hehe. feel free to ask any questions. would love to help sideboard any way possible.
P.S. i know the singleton confidant may seem wierd, but my deck has a theme of foil and non english and i have a foil italian confidant. plus everytime i get him, he is amazing with the low cmc of most spells.
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