I am building a UGr tempo thresh and was wondering what do you guys think about Firespout and Engineered Explosives. My meta is currently infest with Goblin, Merfolk and Zoo, so Firespout seems strong and easily castable with our mana base. Spell that can 2(3?) for 1 are pretty helpful in these match-up. Explosives can create 2for1 too. But both seems to mess with Mongoose/Goyf
Anyway, what would you do in this kind of meta, EE or Firespout? or something else? (also explosives put artifacts in graveyard, witch can be revelant on goyf)
Here's my list atm for reference:
Ya, EE is much better. Even if you don't kill Mongoose, playing against Goblins (this actually happened to me) I had Goyf in play, and played Firespout to clear the board of some Goblins, and in response he Gempalmed the Goyf, and I didn't have mana untapped to Stifle (Although this was not a play mistake as he was swinging for lethal next turn).
I heard gerry T recently wrote an article saying that this deck was a really good choice for the current meta. I really am not comfortable with playing zoo any more and was going to switch to this deck. What im hoping for is input from someone that has tried jace in the deck. I was hoping for find room for jace as a 2 of. Has any one had a suggested build or succes/reasons to or not to use jace?
Jace is good, but you need to up your land count to avoid awkward mana issues. You can get away with 18 land, but I would say, in that case you are a bit lucky with your draw and MUs. So to be on the safe side, You should have 20-22 Land in your build.
I recently made the switch back to Can Thresh myself because my Dark Confidants were being occupied by a different deck (I usually play Dark Thresh). So, just to have 2 completely playable decks, I switched back to UGR config.
Its good again because we no longer are THAT dependable on having access to Extirpate which was huge in Survival meta. Some recent Jace 2.0 builds also run the combination of Grim Lavamancer and Basilisk Collar which is quite nice IMO. Its a very good combination to have against most decks, especially Zoo, but it gets owned in the mirror where Fire//Ice is a powerhouse.
Jace 2.0 is good, but IMO its not a key card in the deck. You gain some, and you lose some (mostly permission spells) by adding Jace, as you need to compensate the additional land slots with something.
I heard gerry T recently wrote an article saying that this deck was a really good choice for the current meta. I really am not comfortable with playing zoo any more and was going to switch to this deck. What im hoping for is input from someone that has tried jace in the deck. I was hoping for find room for jace as a 2 of. Has any one had a suggested build or succes/reasons to or not to use jace?
Jace is great in this deck.
And [EMAIL="D3@D"]D3@D[/EMAIL] is right, to play him, you need 22 land. Also, Trinket Mage to fetch out either the Collar or Engineered Explosives.
I just haven't gotten around to update the primer for this yet.
Jace 2.0 isn't that good in a tempo deck IMO. For 4 mana jace sometimes wins the game but sometimes it's just FoW fodder pure and simple. I don't run any and I still like stifle enough to play it in dark thresh. Dark thresh > canadian thresh all day in my book; in black you get REMOVAL spells that actually REMOVE creatures. Bolt rarely kills KotR, terravore, tombstalker, goyf, etc. etc. instead just killing mana dorks and stuff we don't care about. And dark confidant is too good to not play; playing confidant and protecting it for 2 or more turns wins the game for you. I don't care about the lack of tops to fix bob's damage. Dark confidant is a beast. And red thresh has NO card advantage to speak of. Only very rarely, when the planets align, and your opponent has 2 1 toughness creatures out on the battlefield can red thresh produce CA and that never happens for me at least. Dark confidant fixes that issue.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
That is why you add cards like Grim Lavamancer + Basilisk Collar in the mix to shot-gun every targetable creature your opponent might drop against you. If you can manage to provide this combo with counter back-up, you're pretty much game set right there.
The issue is that you are just as vulnerable to graveyard hate against you. Perhaps something like Goblin Sharpshooter might be a possible sub? However, the 3cc is quite steep for a 1/1 goblin that doesn't make any direct impact on the game the turn he is played, unlike another 3 drop Vendilion Clique.
But I think this strategy, belongs more in the long-game strategy which some successful (to some extent) builds have put up recently. This includes more lands, and Jace 2.0 in the build. But I would imagine this to work in the 18 land 0 jace config as well. You need permission to protect your combo at least for a while to impact the board.
The good version of canadian threshold now looks like Next Level Threshold/Eric English's deck from Edison that top 4'ed. The old, 18 land, deck that has never changed more than 2 cards, is not that good sadly. Next Level Threshold/Tempo is better IMO because it has a strong lategame, trinket mage package, removal for kotr, etc. etc.
I'm sticking with black thresh as I think it is better than team america (yes there are differences). And I don't own jaces so I can't play NLT. Black thresh is solid enough for me; my decklist might have to adapt to all the tombstalkers being played though, as it stands my removal package is cold to a resolved tombstalker. Might have to put in GFTT over smother or ghastly demise.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I've been toying around with the new "Next Level Thresh" and I have had a decent amount of success. I'm not a fan of Jace2.0, but I am a fan of Sower of Temptation. Perfect answer for goyfs, terravores, KOTR, Tombstalker.
I've been toying around with the new "Next Level Thresh" and I have had a decent amount of success. I'm not a fan of Jace2.0, but I am a fan of Sower of Temptation. Perfect answer for goyfs, terravores, KOTR, Tombstalker.
I would have thought lavamancer along with your own goyf would have solved a goyf pretty well. And post board with submerge etc. How has sewer been for you?
Also, does any one have a list that plays ~2 jaces and have they had any success with them? Im slowly building this deck after talking to Cappy about the deck.
Yeah if a decklist has counterbalance in it, it is not tempo thresh. End of story. Same with sensei's divining top.
Also DE@D grim lavamancer getting equipped with collar will likely result in removal on the lavamancer. Sure sometimes they aren't holding removal but this is legacy, it will also draw removal like a magnet because old school canadian thresh runs less than 10 creatures total (4 mongoose, 4 goyf, 2 clique/lavamancer). And goblins will instantly cycle gempalm to get lavamancer out of there because that card wrecks them or they will try to find an answer for it quickly.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I would have thought lavamancer along with your own goyf would have solved a goyf pretty well. And post board with submerge etc. How has sewer been for you?
Also, does any one have a list that plays ~2 jaces and have they had any success with them? Im slowly building this deck after talking to Cappy about the deck.
Yeah, but its like, you take out SDT and Counterbalance, add Stifle and other permission spell of choice, and you got the Thresh.. I was just showing him a build with jace 2.0 that was pretty much similar to Thresh.
The argument about Lavamancer gets killed, goes to every other creature you want to equip as well. They might get killed in response. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If you manage to protect it with your counter spells for a turn or 2 and activate its ability once or twice during that time, you still got your worth of resources.
EDIT: But Dyne provided the deck I was actually looking for but failed to find so I took one that was "similar".
That's the list I've been trying to tweak for a little bit now.
I like the deck it seems to be what im going for. As for the initial list im not sold on the lavamancer/collar idea though. I mean lavamancer alone is good enough against a lot of decks right now. I mean the collar seems good but too cute imo. The EE idea off of trinket mage seems alright it will make a lot of matchups better. The only thing im not sold on is the 2 ponder. I feel that should be 4.
Edit. Has any one tried out preordain in the ponder slot? Im considering using preordain in that slot.
Ben Wienburg when he last placed with canadian thresh ran preordain over ponder. It's personal preference; ponder is sometimes awesome while sometimes preordain is what you need.
How much ponder you run depends on how much deck manipulation you want. In Eric English' NLT he ran 8 such effects (2 jace, 2 ponder, 4 brainstorm.) Clique can also be semi card manipulation (target yourself putting a spell snare or some other dead card on bottom is sometimes useful.)
The collar may be cute but it's an awesome trinket mage target to hose aggro if it gets active. You can just equip trinket mage with collar and kill a goyf or knight or something with it. It merits testing though. And as a one of it doesn't affect your draws much. EE is something you always want now to answer KotR, terravore, CB, or random dudes and is practically mandatory as at least a 1 of in a deck running trinket magi.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I've been working on TT for quite some time and plan on taking it to SCG: Charlotte at the end of April. This is what I have been using.
4 X Nimble Mongoose
4 X Tarmogoyf
4 X Lightning Bolt
3 X Fire/Ice
4 X Force of Will
4 X Daze
3 X Spell Snare
3 X Spell Pierce
4 X Preordain
4 X Brainstorm
1 X Echoing Truth
4 X Stifle
4 X Wasteland
3 X Tropical Island
3 X Volcanic Island
8 X Blue Fetch
Sideboard
2 X Pyroblast
1 X Red Elemental Blast
2 X Ancient Grudge
3 X Submerge
1 X Mind Harness
2 X Farie Macabre
2 X Engineered Explosives
2 X Krosan Grip
I'm still debating on whether the EE's should be in the main and the spell pierces should be in the side. Also wondering if Pithing Needle should be in the 75 somewhere.
Ben Wienburg when he last placed with canadian thresh ran preordain over ponder. It's personal preference; ponder is sometimes awesome while sometimes preordain is what you need.
How much ponder you run depends on how much deck manipulation you want. In Eric English' NLT he ran 8 such effects (2 jace, 2 ponder, 4 brainstorm.) Clique can also be semi card manipulation (target yourself putting a spell snare or some other dead card on bottom is sometimes useful.)
The collar may be cute but it's an awesome trinket mage target to hose aggro if it gets active. You can just equip trinket mage with collar and kill a goyf or knight or something with it. It merits testing though. And as a one of it doesn't affect your draws much. EE is something you always want now to answer KotR, terravore, CB, or random dudes and is practically mandatory as at least a 1 of in a deck running trinket magi.
You can alos equip it to Grim Lavamancer to start pinging.
I never thought i'd say this, but Tempo Thresh got an upgrade from the new set. Mental Misstep is going to be awesome imo. 3-4 definately seem to make the maindeck. Although stifle does have a nasty enemy now.
I never thought i'd say this, but Tempo Thresh got an upgrade from the new set. Mental Misstep is going to be awesome imo. 3-4 definately seem to make the maindeck. Although stifle does have a nasty enemy now.
I agree this card can make this deck competitive again, and I cannot wait to test it out.
I never thought i'd say this, but Tempo Thresh got an upgrade from the new set. Mental Misstep is going to be awesome imo. 3-4 definately seem to make the maindeck. Although stifle does have a nasty enemy now.
Does MM also hurt us as most of our cards are 1 drops?
I never thought i'd say this, but Tempo Thresh got an upgrade from the new set. Mental Misstep is going to be awesome imo. 3-4 definately seem to make the maindeck. Although stifle does have a nasty enemy now.
Does MM also hurt us as most of our cards are 1 drops?
What you think will be the impact of Mental Misstep in Tempo Tresh, its good or bad for us? And what card you think can be replaced with no loss in overall performance of the deck?
I disagree Ravager22. The card was made for this deck. Another free counterspell? Turn 1 answer (even on the draw) against lackey, vial, duress, IoK, Thoughtseize, wild nacatl? Maybe I'm overestimating how good it's going to be, but I believe it's going to be freaking great in this deck.
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Anyway, what would you do in this kind of meta, EE or Firespout? or something else? (also explosives put artifacts in graveyard, witch can be revelant on goyf)
Here's my list atm for reference:
4x Nimble Mongoose
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Brainstorm
4x Spell Snare
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Fire//Ice
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stifle
1x Rushing River
2x Firespout
3x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Volcanic Island
4x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I recently made the switch back to Can Thresh myself because my Dark Confidants were being occupied by a different deck (I usually play Dark Thresh). So, just to have 2 completely playable decks, I switched back to UGR config.
Its good again because we no longer are THAT dependable on having access to Extirpate which was huge in Survival meta. Some recent Jace 2.0 builds also run the combination of Grim Lavamancer and Basilisk Collar which is quite nice IMO. Its a very good combination to have against most decks, especially Zoo, but it gets owned in the mirror where Fire//Ice is a powerhouse.
Jace 2.0 is good, but IMO its not a key card in the deck. You gain some, and you lose some (mostly permission spells) by adding Jace, as you need to compensate the additional land slots with something.
D3@D
Jace is great in this deck.
And [EMAIL="D3@D"]D3@D[/EMAIL] is right, to play him, you need 22 land. Also, Trinket Mage to fetch out either the Collar or Engineered Explosives.
I just haven't gotten around to update the primer for this yet.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Currently Playing:
Retired
The issue is that you are just as vulnerable to graveyard hate against you. Perhaps something like Goblin Sharpshooter might be a possible sub? However, the 3cc is quite steep for a 1/1 goblin that doesn't make any direct impact on the game the turn he is played, unlike another 3 drop Vendilion Clique.
But I think this strategy, belongs more in the long-game strategy which some successful (to some extent) builds have put up recently. This includes more lands, and Jace 2.0 in the build. But I would imagine this to work in the 18 land 0 jace config as well. You need permission to protect your combo at least for a while to impact the board.
I'm sticking with black thresh as I think it is better than team america (yes there are differences). And I don't own jaces so I can't play NLT. Black thresh is solid enough for me; my decklist might have to adapt to all the tombstalkers being played though, as it stands my removal package is cold to a resolved tombstalker. Might have to put in GFTT over smother or ghastly demise.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I would have thought lavamancer along with your own goyf would have solved a goyf pretty well. And post board with submerge etc. How has sewer been for you?
Also, does any one have a list that plays ~2 jaces and have they had any success with them? Im slowly building this deck after talking to Cappy about the deck.
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
Creature [8]
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
2 Firespout
Instant [16]
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifact [6]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment [4]
4 Counterbalance
Planeswalker [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spell Pierce
Also DE@D grim lavamancer getting equipped with collar will likely result in removal on the lavamancer. Sure sometimes they aren't holding removal but this is legacy, it will also draw removal like a magnet because old school canadian thresh runs less than 10 creatures total (4 mongoose, 4 goyf, 2 clique/lavamancer). And goblins will instantly cycle gempalm to get lavamancer out of there because that card wrecks them or they will try to find an answer for it quickly.
Currently Playing:
Retired
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37041
That's the list I've been trying to tweak for a little bit now.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
The argument about Lavamancer gets killed, goes to every other creature you want to equip as well. They might get killed in response. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If you manage to protect it with your counter spells for a turn or 2 and activate its ability once or twice during that time, you still got your worth of resources.
EDIT: But Dyne provided the deck I was actually looking for but failed to find so I took one that was "similar".
I like the deck it seems to be what im going for. As for the initial list im not sold on the lavamancer/collar idea though. I mean lavamancer alone is good enough against a lot of decks right now. I mean the collar seems good but too cute imo. The EE idea off of trinket mage seems alright it will make a lot of matchups better. The only thing im not sold on is the 2 ponder. I feel that should be 4.
Edit. Has any one tried out preordain in the ponder slot? Im considering using preordain in that slot.
How much ponder you run depends on how much deck manipulation you want. In Eric English' NLT he ran 8 such effects (2 jace, 2 ponder, 4 brainstorm.) Clique can also be semi card manipulation (target yourself putting a spell snare or some other dead card on bottom is sometimes useful.)
The collar may be cute but it's an awesome trinket mage target to hose aggro if it gets active. You can just equip trinket mage with collar and kill a goyf or knight or something with it. It merits testing though. And as a one of it doesn't affect your draws much. EE is something you always want now to answer KotR, terravore, CB, or random dudes and is practically mandatory as at least a 1 of in a deck running trinket magi.
Currently Playing:
Retired
4 X Nimble Mongoose
4 X Tarmogoyf
4 X Lightning Bolt
3 X Fire/Ice
4 X Force of Will
4 X Daze
3 X Spell Snare
3 X Spell Pierce
4 X Preordain
4 X Brainstorm
1 X Echoing Truth
4 X Stifle
4 X Wasteland
3 X Tropical Island
3 X Volcanic Island
8 X Blue Fetch
Sideboard
2 X Pyroblast
1 X Red Elemental Blast
2 X Ancient Grudge
3 X Submerge
1 X Mind Harness
2 X Farie Macabre
2 X Engineered Explosives
2 X Krosan Grip
I'm still debating on whether the EE's should be in the main and the spell pierces should be in the side. Also wondering if Pithing Needle should be in the 75 somewhere.
You can alos equip it to Grim Lavamancer to start pinging.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I agree this card can make this deck competitive again, and I cannot wait to test it out.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Does MM also hurt us as most of our cards are 1 drops?
Does MM also hurt us as most of our cards are 1 drops?
Could be, but not every will deck play it.
It the same excuse as ''they can daze your daze''.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath