what do you think is the best plan for zoo right now? Agressive oldschool small zoo (like the list shown last page?) the list that your friend used with 8 paths, or gsz package?
Heya folks. I just want to chime in that Rancor is a card that goes a long way to dealing Zoo back into the metagame. It makes the deck a full turn faster if it is cast on turn 2. There are a lot of flex spots, and this card deserves to be a 3-of. Just try it out to see. I don't post much in this thread, but I have made a lot of converts for this one.
I played Rancor once and liked it. Given I was playing a very fast Zoo with Goblin Guides and a lot of turn 1 threats so landing the turn 2 Rancor wasn't too difficult. However, it did lead to people StPing my creature before the enchantment resolved leading to a 2-for-1. At the same time, it can be a blowout if left uncheck. It also lets you win Goyf wars.
what do you think is the best plan for zoo right now? Agressive oldschool small zoo (like the list shown last page?) the list that your friend used with 8 paths, or gsz package?
Depends on the meta.
If you are expecting a lot of UGx decks and midrange like Shardless BUG, I think my friend's choice is best. Those decks tend to run 12 - 14 threats and having 8 RFG effects makes it pretty difficult to keep a creature in play and end the game. The Smiters are also nice here. If you are expecting a lot of combo, I say the GSZ toolbox is the obvious choice. Lastly, if you expect a lot of control, I'd go one drop and just overwhelm them. Terminus is still a blow out, but hopefully you kill them before it matters or have a hand full of more creatures (i.e. don't over commit) and just start the clock again.
If I were to pick a Zoo deck in a blind meta (or SCG), I'd go with my friend's build. SCGs tend to be fair blue decks. I hope that helps.
Yes. It is rough when your dude gets 2-fer'd. But if the opponent is tapped out or if you attack before casting it when you suspect he might have removal, you almost never get taken in that way in a tournament.
After testing a few games with this list I can confirm - this performs quite well. I had some issues with KotR as he isn't really useful here. He sits on an odd place in the deck... and the Lavamancer doesn't like him either. I will continue testing and replace him with Loxodon Smiter - the inevitability is supernice against tempo decks, being bolt-proof adds the rest.
What do you think about KotR?
What would you Sideboard against tempo and control?
PS: with Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Grim Lavamancer and from the board Scavenging Ooze - we have a total of 13 Cards ripped in pieces by Rest in Peace... I know our miracles matchup isn't favourable anyways, but shouldn't we try to minimize the liabilites?
Im using your list at this next week. But I only have one jitte. What should I replace the other with? Price? Or a sword? Maybe an Ooze?
Edit: Why imposing Sovereign?
Edit 2: What about knight over Smiter? Which is better and why?
1) I'd personally run Jittes in the SB and Price (at least 2) in the main board. Price is SO good right now. Mana bases are so greedy right now (i.e. Deathblade, Shardless BUG, etc.) that you'll get 8+ damage game 1 for sure and can side them out if you think they are on to you. At the same time, you usually want 2 Jittes in the side.
2) Although I personally don't like the inclusion, I think the Sovereigns are there for Sneak Attack based decks. That way whatever they Sneak Attack comes into play tapped and does nothing. As noted though I disagree with the choice since it's hardly going to stop and Sneak and Show player from Show and Telling an Emrakul and just beating you. Basically Sovereign makes a terrible match-up still terrible.
If you are truly worried about Combo decks run Thalias (main?) and Gaddock Teeg. If you are not, just go all in on the Aggro plan and establish a fast clock to win before they go off.
3) Do you mean put Smiter in instead of Knight? My friend played a list with it and Smiter is pretty good. He's relevant mid-game and is uncounterable. Also makes for funny situations with a Liliana in play. At the same time, the Knight can fetch utility lands on the fly.
Im using your list at this next week. But I only have one jitte. What should I replace the other with? Price? Or a sword? Maybe an Ooze?
Edit: Why imposing Sovereign?
Edit 2: What about knight over Smiter? Which is better and why?
Imposing Sovereign is there for several matchups such as Sneak and Show, Tin Fins, Dredge, and anything trying to get a big guy through quickly. I changed it from Blind Obedience so you don't lose damage in the race against combo. It combined with several other cards creates a critical mass of cards to bring in against those combo decks, as no 1 cards is generally enough to stop them.
Generally when Knight of the Reliquary resolves she is as big as or bigger than Loxodon Smiter, and continues to grow throughout the game letting you smash past Tarmogoyfs and cycle through your deck so you can draw more spells in the late game. The uncounterability on Loxodon Smiter is occasionally good, but if they have to blow a Force of Will and a card you're generally fine with it as there's many more big threats in the deck.
Really there's no replacement for an Umezawa's Jitte, but if you can't get one a 2nd Price of Progress is a very good alternative.
You're actually going to want Scavenging Ooze and/or Cage for Storm since their primary engine is no longer Ad Nauseum and is instead Past in Flames. Personally I think having no maindeck Ooze or graveyard hate is not a great idea with so many GY based strategies as of late.
Lastly you want the Pridemages for Sneak Attack (the enchantment).
Is it really worth running so many fetches and only a handful of actual lands? I get you want to fill the GY for Lavamancer/Knight but do they otherwise do much otherwise?
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Is it really worth running so many fetches and only a handful of actual lands? I get you want to fill the GY for Lavamancer/Knight but do they otherwise do much otherwise?
Keeping in mind that I haven't played Zoo seriously in about 3 or 4 months, I almost always have at least 10 Fetches and up to 12. The reason for this is it allows you to usually have an opener with a Fetch and then fetch basic land. Obviously if you *know* they don't have Wasteland go aggressive, but I almost always start with a Basic and a one drop within that color. If you had more lands it makes it more difficult to get that basic and you might *have to* open with a Wastelandable target, which I tend to avoid.
Secondly as you already pointed out, it allows us to fill the GY quickly for Lava-man.
This is a list I've been tinkering with.. should I forget the 12 bolt removal suit and move back to Path to Exile? I would also love to run Bloodbraid Elf in Zoo but I just can't imagine the right build for it.. It's so freaking weak with Green Sun's Zenith.
This is a list I've been tinkering with.. should I forget the 12 bolt removal suit and move back to Path to Exile? I would also love to run Bloodbraid Elf in Zoo but I just can't imagine the right build for it.. It's so freaking weak with Green Sun's Zenith.
I actually think it should be -4 Goblin Guides instead of Kird Ape.
As for the original question, I think Path is very valuable so if possible keep 4 in. It's how we get around Goyf wars, Griselbrand, etc. It's our "catch all" when our aggro plan gets turned down by a single large blocker (i.e. > 3 toughness). Also kills those pesky Batterskull tokens.
I actually think it should be -4 Goblin Guides instead of Kird Ape.
As for the original question, I think Path is very valuable so if possible keep 4 in. It's how we get around Goyf wars, Griselbrand, etc. It's our "catch all" when our aggro plan gets turned down by a single large blocker (i.e. > 3 toughness). Also kills those pesky Batterskull tokens.
That's true.. I just had a wet day dream about burn bases 1 drop Zoo.. but maybe with these all Miracle and midrange decks around it's not too viable.
Modern: Modern is Bad
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Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
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So are the gruul lists from modern finally porting over to legacy? I dont mean burning-tree, E1, boar, but things like rampager, and free 2/2s maybe even e1 as nacatl 5-8?
So are the gruul lists from modern finally porting over to legacy? I dont mean burning-tree, E1, boar, but things like rampager, and free 2/2s maybe even e1 as nacatl 5-8?
I hate to say it since this is my pet deck, but no. Zoo has pretty much been dead for about a year or more now. It'll take a lot of good cards to bring it to even Tier 1.5 to be honest.
I hate to say it since this is my pet deck, but no. Zoo has pretty much been dead for about a year or more now. It'll take a lot of good cards to bring it to even Tier 1.5 to be honest.
Right. I figured that. Combo and stuff, with its good matchups becoming bad. I'm aware of that. Add to punishing fire, and its gross.
But I saw some people have success with gruuler zoo on here and in a few dailies.
I played Rancor once and liked it. Given I was playing a very fast Zoo with Goblin Guides and a lot of turn 1 threats so landing the turn 2 Rancor wasn't too difficult. However, it did lead to people StPing my creature before the enchantment resolved leading to a 2-for-1. At the same time, it can be a blowout if left uncheck. It also lets you win Goyf wars.
Depends on the meta.
If you are expecting a lot of UGx decks and midrange like Shardless BUG, I think my friend's choice is best. Those decks tend to run 12 - 14 threats and having 8 RFG effects makes it pretty difficult to keep a creature in play and end the game. The Smiters are also nice here. If you are expecting a lot of combo, I say the GSZ toolbox is the obvious choice. Lastly, if you expect a lot of control, I'd go one drop and just overwhelm them. Terminus is still a blow out, but hopefully you kill them before it matters or have a hand full of more creatures (i.e. don't over commit) and just start the clock again.
If I were to pick a Zoo deck in a blind meta (or SCG), I'd go with my friend's build. SCGs tend to be fair blue decks. I hope that helps.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Then I say go with whatever you think is more fun.
...or just play Maverick haha.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
This is the current sideboard
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Krosan Grip
1 Karakas
Check the bottom of my article for sideboarding.
http://legitmtg.com/competitive/the-legacy-menagerie/
Im using your list at this next week. But I only have one jitte. What should I replace the other with? Price? Or a sword? Maybe an Ooze?
Edit: Why imposing Sovereign?
Edit 2: What about knight over Smiter? Which is better and why?
1) I'd personally run Jittes in the SB and Price (at least 2) in the main board. Price is SO good right now. Mana bases are so greedy right now (i.e. Deathblade, Shardless BUG, etc.) that you'll get 8+ damage game 1 for sure and can side them out if you think they are on to you. At the same time, you usually want 2 Jittes in the side.
2) Although I personally don't like the inclusion, I think the Sovereigns are there for Sneak Attack based decks. That way whatever they Sneak Attack comes into play tapped and does nothing. As noted though I disagree with the choice since it's hardly going to stop and Sneak and Show player from Show and Telling an Emrakul and just beating you. Basically Sovereign makes a terrible match-up still terrible.
If you are truly worried about Combo decks run Thalias (main?) and Gaddock Teeg. If you are not, just go all in on the Aggro plan and establish a fast clock to win before they go off.
3) Do you mean put Smiter in instead of Knight? My friend played a list with it and Smiter is pretty good. He's relevant mid-game and is uncounterable. Also makes for funny situations with a Liliana in play. At the same time, the Knight can fetch utility lands on the fly.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Imposing Sovereign is there for several matchups such as Sneak and Show, Tin Fins, Dredge, and anything trying to get a big guy through quickly. I changed it from Blind Obedience so you don't lose damage in the race against combo. It combined with several other cards creates a critical mass of cards to bring in against those combo decks, as no 1 cards is generally enough to stop them.
Generally when Knight of the Reliquary resolves she is as big as or bigger than Loxodon Smiter, and continues to grow throughout the game letting you smash past Tarmogoyfs and cycle through your deck so you can draw more spells in the late game. The uncounterability on Loxodon Smiter is occasionally good, but if they have to blow a Force of Will and a card you're generally fine with it as there's many more big threats in the deck.
Really there's no replacement for an Umezawa's Jitte, but if you can't get one a 2nd Price of Progress is a very good alternative.
How did your tournament go? The next I get to play Legacy is SCG Cleveland.
Love the list/SB and I read your article. How do you board against Storm/Elves/Sneak and Tell?
Storm - +3 Thalia, +3 Pyro?
-4 PtE, -1 Qasali, -1 Price of Progress?
Elves?
Sneak + Tell - +3 Thalia, +3 Pyro, +1 Karakas, +2 Soverign?
-1 Plains, -2 Jitte, -1 Price of Progress, -3 Lavamancer, -2 Qasali?
You're actually going to want Scavenging Ooze and/or Cage for Storm since their primary engine is no longer Ad Nauseum and is instead Past in Flames. Personally I think having no maindeck Ooze or graveyard hate is not a great idea with so many GY based strategies as of late.
Lastly you want the Pridemages for Sneak Attack (the enchantment).
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Keeping in mind that I haven't played Zoo seriously in about 3 or 4 months, I almost always have at least 10 Fetches and up to 12. The reason for this is it allows you to usually have an opener with a Fetch and then fetch basic land. Obviously if you *know* they don't have Wasteland go aggressive, but I almost always start with a Basic and a one drop within that color. If you had more lands it makes it more difficult to get that basic and you might *have to* open with a Wastelandable target, which I tend to avoid.
Secondly as you already pointed out, it allows us to fill the GY quickly for Lava-man.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Goblin Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
Lands 19
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
This is a list I've been tinkering with.. should I forget the 12 bolt removal suit and move back to Path to Exile? I would also love to run Bloodbraid Elf in Zoo but I just can't imagine the right build for it.. It's so freaking weak with Green Sun's Zenith.
Modern
WUBRG
-4 Kird Ape
+2 Scavenging Ooze/PtE
+4 KotR
+3 BBE
OR
-4 Kird Ape
+2 Scavenging Ooze/PtE
+4 Rift Bolt
+3 BBE
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
But then I could also cut Chain Lightnings and add four Thalias.
Modern
WUBRG
I actually think it should be -4 Goblin Guides instead of Kird Ape.
As for the original question, I think Path is very valuable so if possible keep 4 in. It's how we get around Goyf wars, Griselbrand, etc. It's our "catch all" when our aggro plan gets turned down by a single large blocker (i.e. > 3 toughness). Also kills those pesky Batterskull tokens.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
That's true.. I just had a wet day dream about burn bases 1 drop Zoo.. but maybe with these all Miracle and midrange decks around it's not too viable.
Modern
WUBRG
Sexy.
back.
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Raging Ravine
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
I hate to say it since this is my pet deck, but no. Zoo has pretty much been dead for about a year or more now. It'll take a lot of good cards to bring it to even Tier 1.5 to be honest.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
Right. I figured that. Combo and stuff, with its good matchups becoming bad. I'm aware of that. Add to punishing fire, and its gross.
But I saw some people have success with gruuler zoo on here and in a few dailies.