Trying to be as fast as I can game 1 I think the forces don't impact the deck positive enough to be main. What am i afraid of game 1 that needs to be forced -1 card?
game 2 price and some number of daze are easy side outs for the hard counter or ssnare if the matchup doesn't have enough 2 drops to be worried about.
I am considering -1 ponder -1 phant image +1 grim lavamancer +1 price of progress
I would like more input on this list. I'm playing it on Saturday at my local store.
Trying to be as fast as I can game 1 I think the forces don't impact the deck positive enough to be main. What am i afraid of game 1 that needs to be forced -1 card?
Lackey, Goyf, KotR, Breakthrough for 0, Natural Order, Stoneforge, Jace... Basically all the tier 1 decks right now have one or two cards that must be answered by a counterspell.
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Limited enthusiast, Legacy miser, and begrudging Commander.
Lackey, Goyf, KotR, Breakthrough for 0, Natural Order, Stoneforge, Jace... Basically all the tier 1 decks right now have one or two cards that must be answered by a counterspell.
4 Forces is excessive though. It's a necessary evil but I think most people want 3 main deck right now. Relying on just Daze and Spell Snare isn't enough.
You don't think the speed of the deck with the early game counter magic is enough to slow down or kill these cards? It just seems to me that between spell snare, daze putting them back a turn and the burn that you can get to your critical turn game 1 with little trouble. Game 2 you are able to side out the price of progress/some number of daze (as they will prob start to play around them after seeing them game 1)
The only real cards we don't have main deck answers to at NO, a giant KotR.
The only real cards we don't have main deck answers to at NO, a giant KotR.
Yeah, KotR needs Forces, Dazes, Submerges, Gilded Drakes, or Mind Harnesses. However, I've tested against NO Show (against myself) on Cockatrice, and UR Burn-Tempo (I like to call it Izzet Deck Wins) can easily race NO for Progenitus if it hasn't been whacked down to 10 or less health previously. (NO for Terastodon blowing up lands probably axes us if we can't stick a Delver, though, and NO for Empyrial Archangel (if anyone does this) just ruins us.)
Show and Tell is a similar pain in the butt to KotR and deserves a Force/Daze/REB/Pyroblast.
Gonna be playing this deck at a big legacy tourney next weekend. Im currently only playing 2 Volcs due to budget, but Im gonna be borrowing the two that I need. I am excited because the deck looks really good. Ill do a tourney report if I do well. Playing 2x Smash to Smithereens in board. Just wondering whats so great about Sulfuric Vortex. Any reason why it's in all the boards?
So it sounds like you can either go Goblin Guide OR Stifle/Wasteland... are there any good builds that play Guide and Wasteland, or Wasteland but not Stifle?
No because guide is super anti synergistic with either of those cards. running just waste is okay but adding stifle is just better.
Why aren't your 4x Force of Will in the maindeck? It's the best counter in Legacy, and at least 3 of them should be in there for any matchup. Daze and Spell Snare are fine, but there's no reason to run 4-each of them if you can't even find room for your Forces.
Through testing I have found that more aggressive versions of this deck want 3 force main while more long game versions (grove of fires combo) want 4 forces
Gonna be playing this deck at a big legacy tourney next weekend. Im currently only playing 2 Volcs due to budget, but Im gonna be borrowing the two that I need. I am excited because the deck looks really good. Ill do a tourney report if I do well. Playing 2x Smash to Smithereens in board. Just wondering whats so great about Sulfuric Vortex. Any reason why it's in all the boards?
it allows us to just destroy the control decks. also, if you are having budget problems this deck is completely fine with just 3 volcs. i even prefer it i think as you never want duals unless you have to get them in this deck
still working on assembling a real primer for you guys, I had a decent start and then my hard drive died >_<.
Also, since there has been a lot of talk about splashes I will be changing this to U/r/(x) snapcaster but there is a dedicated RUG thresh/tempo thread so if your list looks like that, please go there
Hey everyone. Recently built this deck and I wanted everyone to know that I just made Top 8 of a 54 person Legacy tournament with UR Delver. My exact list and a tournament report should be up later tonight, but it may take a little longer than I plan. Ill just post my list and a quick review of my matches.
Round 1 vs Mono U Forgemaster - 2-0
Round 2 vs Stoneforge Affinity - 2-0
Round 3 vs Team America - 2-0
Round 4 vs UWg Stoneblade - 1-2
Round 5 vs Bant Aggro - 2-0
Round 6 vs Reanimator - 2-1
I was in first at the end of swiss.
Top 8 vs Merfolk with Stifle and Standstill - 1-2
Biggest thing was that I never had a Delver flip against Merfolk. I would've won G3 for about 3 turns if Delver ever flipped.
Changes:
-1 Volcanic Island
+1 Island
Thats all I would change. The deck played very well and I misplayed against the Stoneblade list and probably should've won the game, but I cant do math so whatever.
Hey i'm very interested in this deck, but I decided to try out a B splash for Bobs. I will test when I get home, but it looks really fun on paper. I'm also open to suggestions!
Woo...I've had 4x Bobs burning a hole into my binder for some time. I this work out for you let us know. I've been looking for an excuse to put Bob to work.
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| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
Hey i'm very interested in this deck, but I decided to try out a B splash for Bobs. I will test when I get home, but it looks really fun on paper. I'm also open to suggestions!
I was thinking about going down to 3 fow, but so far i've revealed fow once with bob, and still won that game vs bant.. really liking this deck so far.
I'll be playing this on a Legacy tourney on sunday, but I'm still not sure about the match-ups.
My meta is full of Maverick, Stoneblade, Reanimate, Tempo Tresh, sometimes Dredge, Deadguy Ale and Show & Tell / Hive Mind.
Until now, I only played against Maverick, which I had no problem to beat. He's a friend of me and not playing bad, since he got second at the last tourney, so I guess Maverick should not be a huge problem for me.
My deck is pretty much the same as Andrew Shout was playing back in St. Louis (as mentioned in the primer).
That's only 12 cards. I don't know what else to play here. I guess Tormods Crypt wouldn't be too bad of a choice, because I think Dredge could be a tough match up, but I'm really not sure about anything else.
Would really appreciate some help here, guys!
so, relic is better than crypt for you because tarmogoyf is one of the biggest problems this deck has. spell pierce is INSANE in this deck vs reanimator. as for thresh just force them to trade away the monogooses and you will win the war of attrition (you have way more burn and creatures)
let me know if you have any more questions
terminate is terrible because we want to be able to turn our spells at the dome if we need to. just like burn we never want to concentrate on creatures as its a losing game for us. i would cut them for 3 force of will and 1 snapcaster mage
also cut the badlands for 1 volc and 1 U-sea, the swamp for a mountian and then make all the fetches fetch red or blue.
3 sources of black for a splash is totally fair and you shouldn't ever want to be fetching badlands. also this lets you run price of progress in the sideboard
This is what I'm putting together at the moment, I already have most of the cards and I'm on a budget, so it's missing a couple cards. I'm looking for some critique though, maybe some ideas or tweaks that aren't too expensive.
I'm in the process of building this deck, and was wondering whether Blood Moon seemed like a good idea in a burn-heavy version. I know it was discussed earlier, but based on my Cockatrice testing it seems like a good idea to maindeck in the current meta.
I've also been wondering what the point of running 4 Volcanic Islands is - I just can't imagine a scenario where fetching more than one is necessary, let alone a good idea, especially given how great Price of Progress is here. The list I'm working towards (have almost everything but the FoWs and Volcanic Islands) is:
I'm most torn about the Magma Jets and the 1 Volcanic Island. Magma Jet just strikes me as a better fit than Fire // Ice or Ponder here (scry has synergy with delver and has made the difference in a few games), though I'm probably wrong about that. I should probably up the Volcanic Island to 2, but can't see the point in going over that - I've mostly been fetching basics and the deck seems to run fine off of them. I'd appreciate comments on the list I posted, since this is the first "competitive" legacy deck I've tried building.
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game 2 price and some number of daze are easy side outs for the hard counter or ssnare if the matchup doesn't have enough 2 drops to be worried about.
I am considering -1 ponder -1 phant image +1 grim lavamancer +1 price of progress
I would like more input on this list. I'm playing it on Saturday at my local store.
Lackey, Goyf, KotR, Breakthrough for 0, Natural Order, Stoneforge, Jace... Basically all the tier 1 decks right now have one or two cards that must be answered by a counterspell.
4 Forces is excessive though. It's a necessary evil but I think most people want 3 main deck right now. Relying on just Daze and Spell Snare isn't enough.
The only real cards we don't have main deck answers to at NO, a giant KotR.
Yeah, KotR needs Forces, Dazes, Submerges, Gilded Drakes, or Mind Harnesses. However, I've tested against NO Show (against myself) on Cockatrice, and UR Burn-Tempo (I like to call it Izzet Deck Wins) can easily race NO for Progenitus if it hasn't been whacked down to 10 or less health previously. (NO for Terastodon blowing up lands probably axes us if we can't stick a Delver, though, and NO for Empyrial Archangel (if anyone does this) just ruins us.)
Show and Tell is a similar pain in the butt to KotR and deserves a Force/Daze/REB/Pyroblast.
4 Island
2 Mountain
Non-Basic Land: 12
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Snapcaster Mage
Instant: 28
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Shadow Rift
4 Spell Snare
4 Chain Lightning
Just for fun; I just like the idea of smashing face with Kiln Fiend. Would something like this work?
No because guide is super anti synergistic with either of those cards. running just waste is okay but adding stifle is just better.
Through testing I have found that more aggressive versions of this deck want 3 force main while more long game versions (grove of fires combo) want 4 forces
I would find some space for dismember and spell pierce
it allows us to just destroy the control decks. also, if you are having budget problems this deck is completely fine with just 3 volcs. i even prefer it i think as you never want duals unless you have to get them in this deck
still working on assembling a real primer for you guys, I had a decent start and then my hard drive died >_<.
Also, since there has been a lot of talk about splashes I will be changing this to U/r/(x) snapcaster but there is a dedicated RUG thresh/tempo thread so if your list looks like that, please go there
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Price of Progress
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
2 Fireblast
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
3 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
2 Mountain
3 Pyroblast
3 Submerge
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Force of Will
Round 1 vs Mono U Forgemaster - 2-0
Round 2 vs Stoneforge Affinity - 2-0
Round 3 vs Team America - 2-0
Round 4 vs UWg Stoneblade - 1-2
Round 5 vs Bant Aggro - 2-0
Round 6 vs Reanimator - 2-1
I was in first at the end of swiss.
Top 8 vs Merfolk with Stifle and Standstill - 1-2
Biggest thing was that I never had a Delver flip against Merfolk. I would've won G3 for about 3 turns if Delver ever flipped.
Changes:
-1 Volcanic Island
+1 Island
Thats all I would change. The deck played very well and I misplayed against the Stoneblade list and probably should've won the game, but I cant do math so whatever.
Here's the MD.
4x Dark confidant
4x Delver of secrets
3x Snapcaster mage
3x Grim lavamancer
Spells [26]
4x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
4x Stifle
3x Daze
4x Force of will
4x Lightning bolt
4x Chain lightning
2x Spell snare
4x Wasteland
2x Bloodstained mire
3x Polluted delta
3x Scalding tarn
3x Underground sea
4x Volcanic island
1x Badlands
Additional card choices
Bitterblossom
IoK/Thoughtseize
Goblin guide
Esper Heartless
Frites
ANT
:sympu::sympr:Jhoira of the Ghitu:sympr::sympu:
| U Merfolk | UR Delver Burn| B Reanimator| B Landless Dredge |
Isn't Dismember a must if u play black?
Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
- Imperial Bloodwolf R
- Rifter RW
- Rockman WBG
- Burn R
- T.E.S. WUBRG
- Belcher RG
- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
Esper Heartless
Frites
ANT
:sympu::sympr:Jhoira of the Ghitu:sympr::sympu:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Mana Leak
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Badlands
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
i would drop 1 land and the mana leaks for 4 ponder + 1 snapcaster
so, relic is better than crypt for you because tarmogoyf is one of the biggest problems this deck has. spell pierce is INSANE in this deck vs reanimator. as for thresh just force them to trade away the monogooses and you will win the war of attrition (you have way more burn and creatures)
let me know if you have any more questions
terminate is terrible because we want to be able to turn our spells at the dome if we need to. just like burn we never want to concentrate on creatures as its a losing game for us. i would cut them for 3 force of will and 1 snapcaster mage
also cut the badlands for 1 volc and 1 U-sea, the swamp for a mountian and then make all the fetches fetch red or blue.
3 sources of black for a splash is totally fair and you shouldn't ever want to be fetching badlands. also this lets you run price of progress in the sideboard
1 Steam vents
4 Scalding tarn
2 arid mesa
6 mountain
5 island
4 delver of secrets
4 goblin guide
3 grim lavamancer
2 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
3 force of will
2 fire/ice
2 ponder
2 spell snare
2 spell pierce
2 daze
1 fireblast
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
RUG
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
2 Fire//Ice
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
3 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Gilded Drake
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Grim Lavamancer
UR:
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Grim Lavamancer
Spells (29)
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Flusterstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Stifle
4 Wasteland
2 Mountain
2 Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Submerge
1 Gilded Drake
1 Grim Lavamancer
Grixis:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Dark Confidant
Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Force of Will
2 Submerge
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Gilded Drake
1 Engineered Plague
Always brewing...thinking about a UWb list
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Equipment (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
4 Path to Exile
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
3 Submerge
2 Rest in Peace
2 Extirpate
2 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gilded Drake
1 Flusterstorm
1 Batterskull
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I've also been wondering what the point of running 4 Volcanic Islands is - I just can't imagine a scenario where fetching more than one is necessary, let alone a good idea, especially given how great Price of Progress is here. The list I'm working towards (have almost everything but the FoWs and Volcanic Islands) is:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment (2):
2 Blood Moon
Instant (22):
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Fireblast
3 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
Land (18)
3 Arid Mesa
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
2 Dismember
1 Force of Will
3 Pyroblast
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
3 Surgical Extraction
I'm most torn about the Magma Jets and the 1 Volcanic Island. Magma Jet just strikes me as a better fit than Fire // Ice or Ponder here (scry has synergy with delver and has made the difference in a few games), though I'm probably wrong about that. I should probably up the Volcanic Island to 2, but can't see the point in going over that - I've mostly been fetching basics and the deck seems to run fine off of them. I'd appreciate comments on the list I posted, since this is the first "competitive" legacy deck I've tried building.