I realize the deck is U/R snapcaster, but after reading that lengthy tournament report, it seems a minor black splash for a couple of deathmark might be a worthy idea.
I realize the deck is U/R snapcaster, but after reading that lengthy tournament report, it seems a minor black splash for a couple of deathmark might be a worthy idea.
silent departure has replaced deahmark in t.e.s. i think its worth trying out departure before splashing black. i know with mono burn my life gets pretty low with concerning me so if a timewalk or 2 turn stall is consistently enough its definitely worth inclusion for me.
I realize the deck is U/R snapcaster, but after reading that lengthy tournament report, it seems a minor black splash for a couple of deathmark might be a worthy idea.
silent departure has replaced deahmark in t.e.s. i think its worth trying out departure before splashing black. i know with mono burn my life gets pretty low with concerning me so if a timewalk or 2 turn stall is consistently enough its definitely worth inclusion for me.
why are either of those better than submerge for us?
Yeah, I rather just stay UR and just play at least 3 submerges from the board. For the sake of argument submerge is free against green based decks which is infinitely better then splashing an off color. Not to mention the off-color spell might not be able to be casted in a reasonable time frame against both stifle and wasteland.
I mean, staying two colors is most likely one of the main reasons to play this deck. I think if you want to splash for a color the color better be pretty strong or else it isn't worth it.
After a small bit of testing i think firespout is REALLY good against the little thresh decks. it kills almost everything and can be used to finish off a goyf
why are either of those better than submerge for us?
snapcaster mage, mostly, is why I suggested deathmark. It kills the problem creatures as described dead and is easily flashbackable, unlike submerge. In the case of the other one, I haven't played this deck before, honestly. I also mainly suggested it because unsummon was shot down in a previous post and maybe this was better?
Hi, i'm new to this format, i play mostly standard and some modern and i've been playing the burn heavy version of this deck and loving it.
I really like the ability this deck has to reliably stick a threat during the first few turns and then play the burn your blockers/aim to the dome route it takes.
The version with stifle and wasteland plays out quite a bit differently and being from the other side of the table with maverick the RUG tempo decks have very poor game against it. The U/R version of the deck shares many of the same weaknesses, but lacks tarmogoyf.
This deck has so much reach and having daze and fow makes you play in a whole different level than regular burn decks.
Does anyone have any updated sb techs or non obvious tips to share?
Daze makes people scared. And it's free. But I never liked it as a two-of, and I never liked it with Goblin Guide.
Come to think of it, I don't like tax counters with Goblin Guide, simply because the Guide hands out free lands like candy. That's why I'm also leery of Spell Pierce in the same deck as him. I'd rather play more hard counters like Spell Snare.
I dont like Goblin Guide because he hands out lands like candy like you said.
As long you have a land in hand. You can cast the most wicked brainstorm in response to the Goblin Guide trigger. 1 mana draw 2 card brainstorm is pretty damn powerful.
To be honest, does the deck need Goblin Guide? Sure he does maximum damage for a 1 drop but you already have a lot of one drops. Playing a turn 1 Delver or Grim Lavamancer is already extremely strong.
Why not run Wind Zendikon in the lists with Wasteland. It beats in pretty hard (2/2 flying psuedo haste) and can be used as a double wasteland in a pinch.
I dont like Goblin Guide because he hands out lands like candy like you said.
As long you have a land in hand. You can cast the most wicked brainstorm in response to the Goblin Guide trigger. 1 mana draw 2 card brainstorm is pretty damn powerful.
To be honest, does the deck need Goblin Guide? Sure he does maximum damage for a 1 drop but you already have a lot of one drops. Playing a turn 1 Delver or Grim Lavamancer is already extremely strong.
I use Kiln Fiend for the huge damage beater. Seems to work well with all the counters, and burns to get it through.
Why not run Wind Zendikon in the lists with Wasteland. It beats in pretty hard (2/2 flying psuedo haste) and can be used as a double wasteland in a pinch.
i like the idea and plan on testing it. others may say its not good but the same has been said about other ideas i thought might work and it turns out they weren't inferior or suboptimal.
I use Kiln Fiend for the huge damage beater. Seems to work well with all the counters, and burns to get it through.
Hi, i'm new to this format, i play mostly standard and some modern and i've been playing the burn heavy version of this deck and loving it.
I really like the ability this deck has to reliably stick a threat during the first few turns and then play the burn your blockers/aim to the dome route it takes.
The version with stifle and wasteland plays out quite a bit differently and being from the other side of the table with maverick the RUG tempo decks have very poor game against it. The U/R version of the deck shares many of the same weaknesses, but lacks tarmogoyf.
This deck has so much reach and having daze and fow makes you play in a whole different level than regular burn decks.
Does anyone have any updated sb techs or non obvious tips to share?
I should have an update to the primer in the next couple of weeks including a sideboarding guide
Ive only gotten to play legacy on mws recently, Ive been piloting this list to moderate success, not that MWS helps too much.
Daze is cute but people click to it quick, I found pierce to be overall better, easier to reuse with snappy, and vital at dealing with stuff like planeswalkers and mass removal if you had a creature heavy draw. Ive been swapping preordain into the ponder slot (mostly due to using ponder in my t2 deck) and some times its just better, how ever, with saclands ponder is just better (not that we needed to test that ponders a better choice).
Ive liked the light mana base loads, I can play the deck just like my my pauper deck, just cantrip like crazy early game (bad brainstorms go!) to get to three mana, and then settle, I think people need to start to understand that this deck wants to play brainstorm functionally different to most tempo/control decks just like xerox, Im half tempted to drop to 16 lands, and two more cantrips but we need the sac lands pretty bad.
Dont play brainstorm like a cantrip in this deck
brainstorm is to find an answer or to shove two dead cards back into the deck and shuffle them away
if you hold lands beyond 4 in your hand then cast a late game brainstom its 99% as good as recall
Daze makes people scared. And it's free. But I never liked it as a two-of, and I never liked it with Goblin Guide.
Come to think of it, I don't like tax counters with Goblin Guide, simply because the Guide hands out free lands like candy. That's why I'm also leery of Spell Pierce in the same deck as him. I'd rather play more hard counters like Spell Snare.
guide is pretty insane. if you dont want to run him you may want to try out a control version of this deck
I dont like Goblin Guide because he hands out lands like candy like you said.
As long you have a land in hand. You can cast the most wicked brainstorm in response to the Goblin Guide trigger. 1 mana draw 2 card brainstorm is pretty damn powerful.
To be honest, does the deck need Goblin Guide? Sure he does maximum damage for a 1 drop but you already have a lot of one drops. Playing a turn 1 Delver or Grim Lavamancer is already extremely strong.
turn one delver catches up to guide on turn 3 assuming they both keep attacking and delver flips right away. the card is INSANE in the deck
Why not run Wind Zendikon in the lists with Wasteland. It beats in pretty hard (2/2 flying psuedo haste) and can be used as a double wasteland in a pinch.
because being 2 for 1'd sucks and there is a card called swords to plowshares that is popular
I use Kiln Fiend for the huge damage beater. Seems to work well with all the counters, and burns to get it through.
kiln fiend is a slightly different deck/style. I believe it was first run by Doug McKay at a GPT last year. the general idea is to play a turn 2-3 or so kiln fiend and then on the next turn use your burn and removal to **** up their field with counter spell back up as you beat for a ton
im not sure it has a place in this deck as a turn 3 possible beat stick seems sub par
I dont disagree with your statement, but I dont think you understand mine, if you have the dead cards thats great, shuffle away with brainstorm, but You have to get to a precipice before cards become dead, and until that point the cards you get are useful, Ive no doubt you've played the deck more then me, but the short time Ive played it (well the more agro centred versions) Digging for land early isnt a bad thing, where as it is for say UW blade.
Digging for land with brainstorm early game is not good. It means that you kept a greedy hand and that if you miss with brainstorm you are basically out of the game. In this deck if you keep a hand with 2 lands you should be fine until you draw another land naturally. If you feel the need to use brainstorm just understand that you are cheating yourself out of the chance to cast ancestral recall in legacy. There are times when casting brainstorm early game is right but it should never be the turn one or two play to dig for lands.
why no snapcaster? and i would replace the daze's with some fire // ice i don't think this deck needs too many counters.
I need to get a few more fire/ice. And No snapcaster because, to quote another, he is more often than not a 3cc bolt and that's a hard cast rift bolt. Why not just include the rift bolts? Snappy just didn't test well for me, I'm sure he'd be nasty with a riptide lab in mid-late game but I want maximum damage early.
im going to be testing snapper in another u/r based deck with a black splash for fun. once i get the deck solid i will inform everyone of my thoughts on snapper and splashing black. grixis gets no love...
So it sounds like you can either go Goblin Guide OR Stifle/Wasteland... are there any good builds that play Guide and Wasteland, or Wasteland but not Stifle?
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Limited enthusiast, Legacy miser, and begrudging Commander.
Why aren't your 4x Force of Will in the maindeck? It's the best counter in Legacy, and at least 3 of them should be in there for any matchup. Daze and Spell Snare are fine, but there's no reason to run 4-each of them if you can't even find room for your Forces.
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what are you trying to remove? Unsummon is almost always bad
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
silent departure has replaced deahmark in t.e.s. i think its worth trying out departure before splashing black. i know with mono burn my life gets pretty low with concerning me so if a timewalk or 2 turn stall is consistently enough its definitely worth inclusion for me.
why are either of those better than submerge for us?
I mean, staying two colors is most likely one of the main reasons to play this deck. I think if you want to splash for a color the color better be pretty strong or else it isn't worth it.
snapcaster mage, mostly, is why I suggested deathmark. It kills the problem creatures as described dead and is easily flashbackable, unlike submerge. In the case of the other one, I haven't played this deck before, honestly. I also mainly suggested it because unsummon was shot down in a previous post and maybe this was better?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Worth to risk the combo? It'll help against Goyfs and other big fatties.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Basically the Wasteland/Daze/Stifle versus Chain, Price, Mountain versions of the deck.
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
having played stiflenaught while working on this deck I can say that the combo is REALLY bad right now.
both will be in this thread for now but, yes we do need to update the primer to talk about both
I really like the ability this deck has to reliably stick a threat during the first few turns and then play the burn your blockers/aim to the dome route it takes.
The version with stifle and wasteland plays out quite a bit differently and being from the other side of the table with maverick the RUG tempo decks have very poor game against it. The U/R version of the deck shares many of the same weaknesses, but lacks tarmogoyf.
This deck has so much reach and having daze and fow makes you play in a whole different level than regular burn decks.
Does anyone have any updated sb techs or non obvious tips to share?
Come to think of it, I don't like tax counters with Goblin Guide, simply because the Guide hands out free lands like candy. That's why I'm also leery of Spell Pierce in the same deck as him. I'd rather play more hard counters like Spell Snare.
As long you have a land in hand. You can cast the most wicked brainstorm in response to the Goblin Guide trigger. 1 mana draw 2 card brainstorm is pretty damn powerful.
To be honest, does the deck need Goblin Guide? Sure he does maximum damage for a 1 drop but you already have a lot of one drops. Playing a turn 1 Delver or Grim Lavamancer is already extremely strong.
I use Kiln Fiend for the huge damage beater. Seems to work well with all the counters, and burns to get it through.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
i like the idea and plan on testing it. others may say its not good but the same has been said about other ideas i thought might work and it turns out they weren't inferior or suboptimal.
i think i may try this possibly as well.
I should have an update to the primer in the next couple of weeks including a sideboarding guide
Dont play brainstorm like a cantrip in this deck
brainstorm is to find an answer or to shove two dead cards back into the deck and shuffle them away
if you hold lands beyond 4 in your hand then cast a late game brainstom its 99% as good as recall
guide is pretty insane. if you dont want to run him you may want to try out a control version of this deck
turn one delver catches up to guide on turn 3 assuming they both keep attacking and delver flips right away. the card is INSANE in the deck
because being 2 for 1'd sucks and there is a card called swords to plowshares that is popular
kiln fiend is a slightly different deck/style. I believe it was first run by Doug McKay at a GPT last year. the general idea is to play a turn 2-3 or so kiln fiend and then on the next turn use your burn and removal to **** up their field with counter spell back up as you beat for a ton
im not sure it has a place in this deck as a turn 3 possible beat stick seems sub par
I PROMISE I'M WORKING ON UPDATING THE PRIMER!
Digging for land with brainstorm early game is not good. It means that you kept a greedy hand and that if you miss with brainstorm you are basically out of the game. In this deck if you keep a hand with 2 lands you should be fine until you draw another land naturally. If you feel the need to use brainstorm just understand that you are cheating yourself out of the chance to cast ancestral recall in legacy. There are times when casting brainstorm early game is right but it should never be the turn one or two play to dig for lands.
4 delver
3 lavamancer
4 bolt
4 chain lightning
3 pop
2 fireblast
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
3 ssnare
2 island
4 volcanic island
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
2 bloodstained mire
1 arid mesa
4 riftbolt
2 submerge
2 spell pierce
2 echoing truth
3 smash to smithereens
1 shattering spree
1 lavamancer
my build so far which i can hit with a turn 4 -5 easily.
I need to get a few more fire/ice. And No snapcaster because, to quote another, he is more often than not a 3cc bolt and that's a hard cast rift bolt. Why not just include the rift bolts? Snappy just didn't test well for me, I'm sure he'd be nasty with a riptide lab in mid-late game but I want maximum damage early.
Or a chumpblock and a bolt to the face.
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
2 volcanic island
2 mountian
2 island
Spells:
4 daze
4 spell snare
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
2 price of progress
4 delver of secrets
4 goblin guide
3 Phantismal Image
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 grim lavamancer
4 Force of Will
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Bounce (prob echoing truth or repel)
Are there any changes you would make to this list? I'm playing this Saturday at a local shop.