I am trying to incorporate Copters into Merfolk and after reading your report it's funny how good they would be in every match
Moat, flipped Delvers, Tabernacle, Lili, Pox, 2/2 firststrikers in Soldiers, beating with nonMerfolk...
Copters in legacy is something I might get behind.
I am using a single copy of Copter in my MD for a while now. My Meta is full of Goblins, Death and Taxes and other decks that got me into difficult times...
Copter is an All-Star for various reasons: blocks Piledriver, pass through Mother of Runes, blocks Delver, blocks SoFaI... the list goes on.
Would love to use more copies, but it wouldn't match some core cards of our strategy (it doens't synergize with Vial, Jitte and Lords).
Since using my current list (with Copter and Tidal Warriors) i'm 4-0, 3-1, 2-1-1 in my weekly Legacy.
Since using my current list (with Copter and Tidal Warriors) i'm 4-0, 3-1, 2-1-1 in my weekly Legacy.
"weekly legacy", sounds like a dream to me since I am not sure if I played Legacy in the last 12 months
If I do, Tidals, Dismembers and Copter or two will find a way in.
Since using my current list (with Copter and Tidal Warriors) i'm 4-0, 3-1, 2-1-1 in my weekly Legacy.
"weekly legacy", sounds like a dream to me since I am not sure if I played Legacy in the last 12 months
If I do, Tidals, Dismembers and Copter or two will find a way in.
Sorry to hear that ):
Our weekly Legacy is bringing about 18 players... not much, but is enough to do my trainings for bigger tournments.
I only use Dismember on my sideboard. Even though the card is a must, my meta is diverse, and in a lot of matches it is a dead card. If i would run any Instant in the MD, it would be Echoing Truth. It deals with combos like TES and Belcher, deals with Monks and Angel Tokens and it's really versatile!
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD26023S/
I already talked about fun cards in his sideboard and, well, he put some new ones:
Control Magic, Sower of Temptation and, obviously, Reef Worm.
The guy must be hilarious at parties.
This opponent is friend of mine from a city few hundred miles away (st on the end of his nick represents city of Split, Croatia). He loves playing anything related with Jace, TMS, his decks are always foiled out (if possible) and plays them for years, so I was surprised when he attacked with unflipped Delver. Probably tired.
I don't see much harm in at least putting it up on docs or something to see what can be worked on. Obviously too many people writing might not gel, but some basics could easily be covered. Either way yeah its worth a shot.
Sideboard is a mess since I haven't played for months (only Standard and Modern), but main is exactly what I was thinking about for a while.
There are several decklists (even winning ones) with 3 Vials, maybe it isn't sacrilege as it seems.
I know that Merfolk is crushing decks with Islands and losing to those without, which is why I have 3 Tidal Warriors for final push through defence.
Legacy version has only 4 Adepts and a chance to copy them with Image. This is a drop in cantrips from Modern, so Copters are here to emulate consistency (cantrips define Legacy) while applying pressure.
So "friend" brought Death and Taxes
I hate that deck, but being a Dark Souls veteran prevents me from backing out of misery.
And, wow, did I had fun...
We played 10 games, 8-2 for me, I enjoyed every minute of it. No sideboarded games.
He had Flickerwisp equipped with SoF&I and Mother of Runes but couldn't pass through Smuggler's Copter
Revoker had to name Tidal Warrior or he was always in danger to just die from Islandwalk.
Tidal was "working" on his mana as much as his Wastelands and Ports were working on mine.
Tidal was fixing my mana, Smuggler was taking out the trash, Echoing Truth was returning SoF&I in the middle of combat (no happyend for that attacker) and it was weird/awesome having Islandwalk against nonIsland decks in Legacy.
At one point I was activating Copter just to copy it with Image, to have more colorless flyers, which is important against D&T.
I am fully aware this is the second worst matchup for us in Legacy and that score is nowhere near realistic, but I am also happy that it's possible to beat it.
I might drop the 4th Cursecatcher for a 4th Vial, but that's a very promising list. Thanks for sharing!
I've been on 3 Chalice for a while now, though some have gone to 4. Have you never felt the need to load up on more Chalices, especially because we have fewer library manipulation options compared to other Blue decks (as you mentioned)?
EDIT: When you need an air force, Imaging Copters works a lot better than Imaging Cliques!
FANAttIC, cool list. Looks pretty familiar :D, but with the appropriate shaves to fit in the 3 copters. I'm glad you're having a blast with the Tidals and Copters, tempting me to try a bit of whir-whir action myself, even though that means I can't pack my beloved Null Rods.
Curby, I would never go less than 4 Cursecatchers ever. The flex is between number of Tidals and Vials. I've also been running 3 Chalice in paper.. but only because I lent my 4th out for an extended amount of time and couldn't play all 4. I was definitely feeling the lack of the #4, but the deck is still so capable anyway that it wasn't *too* bad. When I first started playing Chalice I was only running 3 anyhow.
I remember cutting Cursecatcher somewhere in the past and it was miserable (I find most hands without one-drop close to bad).
That means fourth Vial would have to come from something else. But this is a test, so 3 will do for now.
And also, I need more creatures to power up SC.
I won't lie, the list was influenced by tuxdev's endless 5-0 masterpiece, it had to at least be somewhat viable.
3 Chalice is my number for years, had the best results with them, it just "feels" right. Maybe I am wrong but no more than people who cut them alltogether (Chalice is autowin against some decks, 3 is minimum in 75). Spell Pierce in the sideboard is the fourth Chalice, but I am not close to deck at this moment, to check.
Yeah, having an airforce was another dimension in the deck. Imaged Copter is still vulnerable to etb Flickerwisp but I have an option to play it late, when they deplete their hand. Playing Copter in Modern and Legacy is maybe my overreaction to Wizards banning it in Standard, but the card has such high power level I refuse to not play it anywhere.
Hi,
Has anyone actually tries Ancestral Visions as a 3-4 of in Merfolk Sideboard
I mean attrition is one of our worst matchups other than Affinity. We take out our 1 mana Vials anyway and possibly some number of Cursecatchers based on the deck.
Sideboard would look something like
1 Hurkyl's recall
2 Ceremonious Rejection
4 Ancestral Visions
1 Echoing Truth
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdiggers Cage
I remember cutting Cursecatcher somewhere in the past and it was miserable (I find most hands without one-drop close to bad).
I definitely agree that you want to open with a 1 drop, but you're at 10 total now, which is more than before. Neither Vial nor Cursecatcher is great in the late game, but Vial seems more critical to the early game. I get that Cursecatcher is important, but isn't Vial even more important? Please explain.
untranslated_za, are you sure you're in the right thread? This is for Legacy, not Modern. Hurkyl's and Rejection don't belong in a Legacy sideboard at all. Anyhow, AV is way too slow of a card for us. The traditional aggressive option for drawing 3 cards is Standstill, but that has long fallen out of favor because it's a lot harder nowadays to set up the boardstate required for Standstill. My recommended card engine for the slower, grindier matchups is JTMS, of which you only need or want one copy in the sideboard.
Curby, running less than 4 cursecatcher opens you up to the spell-based combo decks too much. Vial is not really all that important, we don't abuse it with lots of tricks like D&T does. Vial is considerably more dreadful of a topdeck than any 1/1 dork, especially if the 1/1 dork is really a 3/3 flyer.
Vial is extremely important for Modern because everyone is playing Opal, Ape, Tron, Scapeshift, Bloom and other accelerators, we need to keep up and have a chance to deploy Waves on time.
In Legacy, we have superfast decks in check with Chalice and Force (plus Fluster, Daze, Pierce, whatever else). That means we have some time, so Vial is not a matter of life and death. Also, we are playing FoW and we need more blue stuff to pitch, so it is possible (at some point) Vial would not have anything to deploy (similar to discard matchups, lack of gas means Vial lose some flair).
Yes, now there are 10 1-drops and they "feel" good with Copters, I just wish to have more Legacy players around me to test properly (no MODO for me).
Hey guys, finally got the chance to play with my waveriders in legacy. I'm sold on smugglers copter in merfolk, was able to pull out a win against a smokestack contamination build that was actually pretty sick earlier primarily because of copter. (Ophinomancer is actually pretty good. Lol)
I played a build almost exactly like the one fanattic posted above. Just with a 4th chalice as my 61at main board card. Sb is kinda up in the air, I actually like spreading seas still vs the decks we can use it against. Still have some diehards in my area that love jund like I love merfolk and burn and there is a ton of stuff to board out in that match, boarding in stuff that's effective and draws cards is sweet.
I thought tidal warrior was insane. Though I am concerned by the fact he can be responded to and gotten around situation depending. (I faced a random tron build that kept O stoning me.) I'm assuming cloud post or lands could be similar. Never been a fan of back to basics so I'm going to try both seas and tidal for now.
I normally don't find myself agreeing with nikachu on card choices, but I believe I do when it comes to negate vs fluster storm. Having a hard time theorizing having an issue with the changeover.
I've been kinda missing v clique lately so I will likely work it back in. I'm actually a fan of harbinger of the tides so due to testing copters and tidal I've got him back in the board over something like submerge. May yet try tide binder, but am happy overall.
Any questions just ask, I love seeing you guys discuss the deck both in modern and legacy. This is one of the most informative and interactive threads I've seen. Almost everyday there's decent discussion going on in both formats. Most threadscan't offer half of that so certainly give yourselves a pat on the fins. You guys are awesome.
It seems like Tidal is growing on me too.
We, more or less, spank all Island decks, and having one mana answer to lesser nonIsland decks (by ignoring blocking step), while also having lots of utility, body and curve consideration, is amazing.
I thought about Spreading Seas a lot, but Legacy has more effects like Wasteland, Crop Rotation, Thalia, Daze and the like, it isn't easy to resolve.
Not to mention harder to cast with more Cavern and Wasteland in our deck. If anyone goes this route, 2 max in the sideboard with some Tidals in the main should do it.
It's a reddit thread. Personally, I still prefer Flusterstorm. I tried Negate for a bit after making that comment and the 1 extra mana was brutal. However.. flusterstorm is still casually $80 so that's not always an option.
IMO Spreading Seas is not a good card in Legacy, particularly because Tidal Warrior exists to fill much the same roles, and Back to Basics is way more powerful. Seas is often just a minor annoyance, BtB stops our opponent from playing the game.
Acquiring Invocation Forces and Dazes in both paper and mtgo have to be pain
Copter is an All-Star for various reasons: blocks Piledriver, pass through Mother of Runes, blocks Delver, blocks SoFaI... the list goes on.
Would love to use more copies, but it wouldn't match some core cards of our strategy (it doens't synergize with Vial, Jitte and Lords).
Since using my current list (with Copter and Tidal Warriors) i'm 4-0, 3-1, 2-1-1 in my weekly Legacy.
If I do, Tidals, Dismembers and Copter or two will find a way in.
Sorry to hear that ):
Our weekly Legacy is bringing about 18 players... not much, but is enough to do my trainings for bigger tournments.
I only use Dismember on my sideboard. Even though the card is a must, my meta is diverse, and in a lot of matches it is a dead card. If i would run any Instant in the MD, it would be Echoing Truth. It deals with combos like TES and Belcher, deals with Monks and Angel Tokens and it's really versatile!
I already talked about fun cards in his sideboard and, well, he put some new ones:
Control Magic, Sower of Temptation and, obviously, Reef Worm.
The guy must be hilarious at parties.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Twitch channel
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
PM me your gmail if you want write access.
Twitch channel
4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Wasteland
4 Cursecatcher
3 Tidal Warrior
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
3 Dismember
3 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
Sideboard is a mess since I haven't played for months (only Standard and Modern), but main is exactly what I was thinking about for a while.
There are several decklists (even winning ones) with 3 Vials, maybe it isn't sacrilege as it seems.
I know that Merfolk is crushing decks with Islands and losing to those without, which is why I have 3 Tidal Warriors for final push through defence.
Legacy version has only 4 Adepts and a chance to copy them with Image. This is a drop in cantrips from Modern, so Copters are here to emulate consistency (cantrips define Legacy) while applying pressure.
So "friend" brought Death and Taxes
I hate that deck, but being a Dark Souls veteran prevents me from backing out of misery.
And, wow, did I had fun...
We played 10 games, 8-2 for me, I enjoyed every minute of it. No sideboarded games.
He had Flickerwisp equipped with SoF&I and Mother of Runes but couldn't pass through Smuggler's Copter
Revoker had to name Tidal Warrior or he was always in danger to just die from Islandwalk.
Tidal was "working" on his mana as much as his Wastelands and Ports were working on mine.
Tidal was fixing my mana, Smuggler was taking out the trash, Echoing Truth was returning SoF&I in the middle of combat (no happyend for that attacker) and it was weird/awesome having Islandwalk against nonIsland decks in Legacy.
At one point I was activating Copter just to copy it with Image, to have more colorless flyers, which is important against D&T.
I am fully aware this is the second worst matchup for us in Legacy and that score is nowhere near realistic, but I am also happy that it's possible to beat it.
I've been on 3 Chalice for a while now, though some have gone to 4. Have you never felt the need to load up on more Chalices, especially because we have fewer library manipulation options compared to other Blue decks (as you mentioned)?
EDIT: When you need an air force, Imaging Copters works a lot better than Imaging Cliques!
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Curby, I would never go less than 4 Cursecatchers ever. The flex is between number of Tidals and Vials. I've also been running 3 Chalice in paper.. but only because I lent my 4th out for an extended amount of time and couldn't play all 4. I was definitely feeling the lack of the #4, but the deck is still so capable anyway that it wasn't *too* bad. When I first started playing Chalice I was only running 3 anyhow.
Twitch channel
That means fourth Vial would have to come from something else. But this is a test, so 3 will do for now.
And also, I need more creatures to power up SC.
I won't lie, the list was influenced by tuxdev's endless 5-0 masterpiece, it had to at least be somewhat viable.
3 Chalice is my number for years, had the best results with them, it just "feels" right. Maybe I am wrong but no more than people who cut them alltogether (Chalice is autowin against some decks, 3 is minimum in 75). Spell Pierce in the sideboard is the fourth Chalice, but I am not close to deck at this moment, to check.
Yeah, having an airforce was another dimension in the deck. Imaged Copter is still vulnerable to etb Flickerwisp but I have an option to play it late, when they deplete their hand. Playing Copter in Modern and Legacy is maybe my overreaction to Wizards banning it in Standard, but the card has such high power level I refuse to not play it anywhere.
Has anyone actually tries Ancestral Visions as a 3-4 of in Merfolk Sideboard
I mean attrition is one of our worst matchups other than Affinity. We take out our 1 mana Vials anyway and possibly some number of Cursecatchers based on the deck.
Sideboard would look something like
1 Hurkyl's recall
2 Ceremonious Rejection
4 Ancestral Visions
1 Echoing Truth
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1-2 Vendilion Clique/Tidebinder Mage
1-2 Counterspells/Dismember
Do you even still need Chalice of the Void if you use AV? Generally Chalice is on X=0 or X=1 for combo or 1 mana removal anyway.
I definitely agree that you want to open with a 1 drop, but you're at 10 total now, which is more than before. Neither Vial nor Cursecatcher is great in the late game, but Vial seems more critical to the early game. I get that Cursecatcher is important, but isn't Vial even more important? Please explain.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Curby, running less than 4 cursecatcher opens you up to the spell-based combo decks too much. Vial is not really all that important, we don't abuse it with lots of tricks like D&T does. Vial is considerably more dreadful of a topdeck than any 1/1 dork, especially if the 1/1 dork is really a 3/3 flyer.
Twitch channel
In Legacy, we have superfast decks in check with Chalice and Force (plus Fluster, Daze, Pierce, whatever else). That means we have some time, so Vial is not a matter of life and death. Also, we are playing FoW and we need more blue stuff to pitch, so it is possible (at some point) Vial would not have anything to deploy (similar to discard matchups, lack of gas means Vial lose some flair).
Yes, now there are 10 1-drops and they "feel" good with Copters, I just wish to have more Legacy players around me to test properly (no MODO for me).
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I played a build almost exactly like the one fanattic posted above. Just with a 4th chalice as my 61at main board card. Sb is kinda up in the air, I actually like spreading seas still vs the decks we can use it against. Still have some diehards in my area that love jund like I love merfolk and burn and there is a ton of stuff to board out in that match, boarding in stuff that's effective and draws cards is sweet.
I thought tidal warrior was insane. Though I am concerned by the fact he can be responded to and gotten around situation depending. (I faced a random tron build that kept O stoning me.) I'm assuming cloud post or lands could be similar. Never been a fan of back to basics so I'm going to try both seas and tidal for now.
I normally don't find myself agreeing with nikachu on card choices, but I believe I do when it comes to negate vs fluster storm. Having a hard time theorizing having an issue with the changeover.
I've been kinda missing v clique lately so I will likely work it back in. I'm actually a fan of harbinger of the tides so due to testing copters and tidal I've got him back in the board over something like submerge. May yet try tide binder, but am happy overall.
Any questions just ask, I love seeing you guys discuss the deck both in modern and legacy. This is one of the most informative and interactive threads I've seen. Almost everyday there's decent discussion going on in both formats. Most threadscan't offer half of that so certainly give yourselves a pat on the fins. You guys are awesome.
Happy Easter!!
We, more or less, spank all Island decks, and having one mana answer to lesser nonIsland decks (by ignoring blocking step), while also having lots of utility, body and curve consideration, is amazing.
I thought about Spreading Seas a lot, but Legacy has more effects like Wasteland, Crop Rotation, Thalia, Daze and the like, it isn't easy to resolve.
Not to mention harder to cast with more Cavern and Wasteland in our deck. If anyone goes this route, 2 max in the sideboard with some Tidals in the main should do it.
Anyone got a link to this thread? Or timestamped Youtube link if it was a video? TIA.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
IMO Spreading Seas is not a good card in Legacy, particularly because Tidal Warrior exists to fill much the same roles, and Back to Basics is way more powerful. Seas is often just a minor annoyance, BtB stops our opponent from playing the game.
Twitch channel