Lol thank you for catching that I was posting it from memory and I forgot about the Harbinger despite mentioning it in my match ups
Chalice is one of those cards that is either dead as soon as you draw it or you need to slam it ASAP for it to do anything. I found more and more I would just draw it when I no longer needed it because I was too ahead or too behind and I would have rather just wanted another land or another creature for one reason or another. Too many times I/we/you try to just slam down chalice for 1 on turn 2 after playing a cursecatcher (or hopefully a vial) wanting it to stick. Sometimes that doesn't even do anything with all the Council's Judgement, Abrupt Decays, Tears, etc...running around. I always feel it just opens us up too to many extra artifact hate and removal cards. Sure they logic can be "Well at least it didnt go to a creature"...we could have played a lord or a silvergill that turn instead to dig deeper in our deck or advance our clock. I feel I was able to play much more aggressively without Chalice and it definately won me a few games with so few dead cards aside from late game vials since even Daze can be Force food or catch a mana-light opponent. I was able to pound my miracles opponent's into the dirt by just having so many low cost creatures (multiple cursecatchers and silvergills) making them hesitant to Terminus and when they did I just redeployed quickly or countered it, I never gave them time to set up. Some people like Chalice and I know it is great against Delver and Elves, but my area has always been high in combo and lands so for me Chalice never did anything but take up 4 slots and immediately get sided out.
I can't speak too much for online meta or your personal meta, but I have hated chalice for awhile and it was great to get results like this without it. I'm sure I have more reasons why I don't like Chalice rattling around, but those are the gist of it.
I remember the 4 standstill 4 mishra's factory 4 Daze times back then and while part of me misses Standstill I know it isn't worth playing anymore. I'm sure online it is much more important and if I played only there I would almost certainly main at least 3, but as I continue going to paper events it is going to stay out until I play an event where I regret not having it.
I've done pretty well against D&T thanks to Tidal Warrior, Dismember, and Echoing Truth in my sideboard. The matchup will never be great, but I've won my fair share of matches.
D&T is why I started playing Null Rod in the side again, sure it is a nonbo with our vial, but theirs too. Manriki is just too clutch since you have to either draw it (same chance as rod) or image their stoneforget and go get it and even then you cant equip it to the image to kill their SoFaI. Plus you have to equip it and then activate which they can swords in response to the equip, there just needs to be too much to line up for it to be worth it when just a turn 2 rod stops all that nonsense imo
I've been generally dissatisfied with Manriki-Gusari, pretty similarly to how Silvergill described.
- It's often too slow to make a difference if you have to fetch it with Stoneforge Image (they got a hit in with the equipped dude already)
- You kind of need a TNN to carry it properly or risk getting blown out by removal
- Attacking with the dude that's carrying it can be too risky, so you're wasting damage every turn they *don't* throw down an equipment
If you've decided to play Rod like I have, I tend to feel like it's better to commit harder on Rod and just skip the Manriki, though if you *really* need to it's not that unreasonable to play both. If you don't have Rod, though, Manriki is mandatory. Another option is to just completely ignore equipment, but that's a meta call most aren't willing to take. As much as I love singing the praises of Null Rod, the actual #1 card of the matchup is Dismember.
I've been winning against D&T decently often enough on MODO, but it's hard to tell whether it's because of my Anti-D&T package, opponent's lack of play skill, or just plain getting lucky. I dunno, I'm gonna go with that third option..
Welcome to Legacy first of all and while I can't give you great sideboard advice at the moment I am sure someone on here can. My overall legacy advice is if a True-Name Nemesis resolves you cannot under any circumstances not name a player. It cannot be stilfed, it cannot be forgotten, it cannot be stopped once it resolves. If you forget and your opponent catches it or tries to do something realizing you did not name someone and a judge is called by you or him the judge will MAKE YOU name a player at that moment because it is part of the card. That should save some headaches and confusion later on
Welcome to Ye Olde School! Your bullet points pretty much nail the important parts - cavern and phantasmal image are crucial pieces of the deck.
Yeaaaah I've been slowly working on a new primer, it's not good that the primers are so out of date. It'll happen.. sometime..
In terms of more specific sideboard advice, I'd recommend 1-2 more grave hate pieces and 2 copies of a counter like Swan Song. Tidal Warrior works better maindeck rather than sideboard, since it helps us actually have an effective curve and not just say "land, go" on turn1 most of the time.
Hello, reasonably new to legacy merfolk (coming from modern). my primary question is - why is 1x Jitte mainboard the standard? Do any lists ever play more than 1?
Some play 2 main, more typical is 1 main 1 side. The one in the main is just because it's randomly really good and at worst decent, as well as being able to get fetched by copying an opposing stoneforge mystic. As of late I've dropped it entirely because I've been a bit unsatisfied by how slow it is.
In my experience it is usually easier to take it out than it is to bring it in so I typically play 1-2 main and none side, I feel it is also something I've been moving away from but as I am still testing my 0 chalice list Jitte fits fine for now.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD04536K/
I am itching to put a playset of Roflcopters in the deck ever since the card was printed and I'm "dying" to read his report.
He might have gone too deep with Fallowsage, Grimoire Thief and Surgespanner (Copter doesn't need the help) though
Hi everyone! I'm completely new to the Fish scene and I'm looking for a deck to test going towards GP Las Vegas. Does Merfolk have good matchups against Miracles and most Delver variants? I know D&T is pretty bad, but overall Merfolk has pretty good matchups otherwise right?
I've been looking at Tuxdev's lists and I'm about to pull the trigger on buying pieces on MTGO. My other option is Sneak and show.
Any input you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated.
We have all the tools to beat decks with Islands.
You summed up the situation with Miracles, Delver and D&T perfectly.
Someone joked that you should try and go to draw bracket in the GP, this way you are playing Miracles every round
We are the sum of all fears for Miracle players (if played correctly).
It is important to have a plan for Sword of Fire&Ice (Dismember, Warping Wail, Clique, Venser, Needle...), stop signs like Moat, Glacial Chasm, Ensnaring Bridge (Wasteland, Tidal Warrior, Venser, Echoing Truth...), graveyard usage like Punishing Fire, Goyf, Reanimator, Snapcaster, Life FTL (Relic of Progenitus and something of your choice, like Cage, Surgical, Macabre) and something to give unblockable when the opponent isn't playing with real lands like Islands (Tidal Warrior and/or Spreading Seas). Those are main concerns.
You should watch tuxdev's twitch 5-0 replays, like watching a marathon of movies with happy endings.
Yep, Merfolk is definitely good against both Miracles and Delver, and you mostly crush the fast combo decks. The decks I've had most trouble against are actually fringe stuff like Nic Fit (curse you, Pernicious Deed!) and Lands. You're also a favorite against Eldrazi, and the Sultai decks that have been all the rage of late feel 50/50-ish. I actually think the deck is in a very strong position right now.
Now I honestly haven't played Merfolk yet, but if the D&T matchup is so bad, isn't it worth splashing black or red for Dread of Night or Sulfur Elemental? Just a thought.
Now I honestly haven't played Merfolk yet, but if the D&T matchup is so bad, isn't it worth splashing black or red for Dread of Night or Sulfur Elemental? Just a thought.
It's certainly doable.
I personally don't like splashing colors, which is why I play both Merfolk and D&T being mono color...
And I'm already bringing in a bunch of cards from the sideboard to deal with D&T...
So I just ran Merfolk through a League. Started off 3-0 but lost the last 2.
Rd 1 Win against D&T. Game 1 got equipment and I lost. Games 2 and 3 I'm sure I just got lucky with True name
Rd 2 Win against Miracles. They didn't really have much either game.
Rd 3 Win against Sneak and show. I got my turn 1 AEther Vial Forced, I accidently passed turn with 2 wastelands. I needed the Vial. But I still win because he went for Sneak Attack when I had a Force of Will he wasn't expecting.
Rd 4 Loss against Lands. I came close to winning game 1 because of TNN. Game 2 He Choked me.
Rd 5 Loss against Miracles. I'm stuck on lands game 1 and he Counsel's Judgement on my Vial. I'm stuck with 4 Lords in hand. Game 2 he plays all 4 Terminus and I can't get the last damage in.
Overall I like the deck so far. Not really sure how to sideboard yet, but I'll get a better feel for it as I go. True Name Nemesis is an MVP. This deck gets to run 4 which is amazing. I'll be running the deck some more and possibly stick with it until Vegas.
More like 7 TNNs.
Even better is when you have TNN down, Image in hand and copying TNN is not the best thing to do at that moment. Then you are having a blast beating the opponent with their fatties.
D&T isn't too prevalent in the meta nor do we really gain anything overall for a splash. We still manage to run a fairly budget deck with 0 fetchlands and 0 duals, while the life difference is much smaller than in modern we don't have to worry about stifle or Aven Mindsensor shenanigans. For me at least D&T feels a lot like the modern affinity match up, we might be disadvantaged but so many of the pilots don't play it well or goof up at key moments we can steal a win. At least for paper, I can't say for online play. Sword of Fire and Ice is the real problem, we can blank or keep pace with just about everything in the deck but we get buried by that card so fast it isn't even funny. If they can't get a good equipment in play or can't keep it equipped then 9/10 their creatures are so much worse than ours.
We can deal with Rishadan Port because of our own Vial, TNN blanks a lot of their removal and combat tricks, our own Jitte can keep pace with theirs and we have more creatures to suit it up with, Phantasmal Image can copy all their fun little creatures and make things awkward for their spells by copying Thalia and similar situations, our sideboard is usually much more punishing (null rod, echoing truth, dismember, pithing needle, etc...) so we can keep pace much better. While I don't know how much I could recommend it, Back to Basics can make their lands really awkward since all their important spells cost colored mana while ours are basically free, colorless, or can be put in with vial...so we can really lock them out of the most expensive spells or Karakas/Port nonsense
In my experience if we have a weak hand or we fall behind it can be very hard near impossible to claw our way back unless they make huge blunders or draw hot garbage.
I just got done playing merfolk for the first time in legacy. I have played alot of legacy with other decks. The only deck I had a problem with is bug delver. He is running hymns and Lilly and Tom stalker version. Im running the merfolk without chalice. What is a good game plan and sideboard options for it.
I am trying to incorporate Copters into Merfolk and after reading your report it's funny how good they would be in every match
Moat, flipped Delvers, Tabernacle, Lili, Pox, 2/2 firststrikers in Soldiers, beating with nonMerfolk...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Chalice is one of those cards that is either dead as soon as you draw it or you need to slam it ASAP for it to do anything. I found more and more I would just draw it when I no longer needed it because I was too ahead or too behind and I would have rather just wanted another land or another creature for one reason or another. Too many times I/we/you try to just slam down chalice for 1 on turn 2 after playing a cursecatcher (or hopefully a vial) wanting it to stick. Sometimes that doesn't even do anything with all the Council's Judgement, Abrupt Decays, Tears, etc...running around. I always feel it just opens us up too to many extra artifact hate and removal cards. Sure they logic can be "Well at least it didnt go to a creature"...we could have played a lord or a silvergill that turn instead to dig deeper in our deck or advance our clock. I feel I was able to play much more aggressively without Chalice and it definately won me a few games with so few dead cards aside from late game vials since even Daze can be Force food or catch a mana-light opponent. I was able to pound my miracles opponent's into the dirt by just having so many low cost creatures (multiple cursecatchers and silvergills) making them hesitant to Terminus and when they did I just redeployed quickly or countered it, I never gave them time to set up. Some people like Chalice and I know it is great against Delver and Elves, but my area has always been high in combo and lands so for me Chalice never did anything but take up 4 slots and immediately get sided out.
I can't speak too much for online meta or your personal meta, but I have hated chalice for awhile and it was great to get results like this without it. I'm sure I have more reasons why I don't like Chalice rattling around, but those are the gist of it.
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
I saw many successful, different builds, without Chalices, like this: http://tcdecks.net/results.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=&nhigh=&from=&to=&player=Dominik Stuetzle&aname=&dname=&format=Noformat&main=&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on
He then turned traitor: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13884&d=282088&f=LE
I also had the best results with Chalice, so there is no definite answer for me.
Right now I am just focused on building a plan to beat D&T without destroying the core. The "plan" might include Copter, Heart of Kiran or Harvester to negate their Mother, flyers and Sword (my hate towards SoF&I has no bounds).
Maybe it works.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
- It's often too slow to make a difference if you have to fetch it with Stoneforge Image (they got a hit in with the equipped dude already)
- You kind of need a TNN to carry it properly or risk getting blown out by removal
- Attacking with the dude that's carrying it can be too risky, so you're wasting damage every turn they *don't* throw down an equipment
If you've decided to play Rod like I have, I tend to feel like it's better to commit harder on Rod and just skip the Manriki, though if you *really* need to it's not that unreasonable to play both. If you don't have Rod, though, Manriki is mandatory. Another option is to just completely ignore equipment, but that's a meta call most aren't willing to take. As much as I love singing the praises of Null Rod, the actual #1 card of the matchup is Dismember.
I've been winning against D&T decently often enough on MODO, but it's hard to tell whether it's because of my Anti-D&T package, opponent's lack of play skill, or just plain getting lucky. I dunno, I'm gonna go with that third option..
Twitch channel
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Yeaaaah I've been slowly working on a new primer, it's not good that the primers are so out of date. It'll happen.. sometime..
In terms of more specific sideboard advice, I'd recommend 1-2 more grave hate pieces and 2 copies of a counter like Swan Song. Tidal Warrior works better maindeck rather than sideboard, since it helps us actually have an effective curve and not just say "land, go" on turn1 most of the time.
Twitch channel
Cheers, hope to be a regular contributor here.
Twitch channel
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
I am itching to put a playset of Roflcopters in the deck ever since the card was printed and I'm "dying" to read his report.
He might have gone too deep with Fallowsage, Grimoire Thief and Surgespanner (Copter doesn't need the help) though
I've been looking at Tuxdev's lists and I'm about to pull the trigger on buying pieces on MTGO. My other option is Sneak and show.
Any input you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated.
You summed up the situation with Miracles, Delver and D&T perfectly.
Someone joked that you should try and go to draw bracket in the GP, this way you are playing Miracles every round
We are the sum of all fears for Miracle players (if played correctly).
It is important to have a plan for Sword of Fire&Ice (Dismember, Warping Wail, Clique, Venser, Needle...), stop signs like Moat, Glacial Chasm, Ensnaring Bridge (Wasteland, Tidal Warrior, Venser, Echoing Truth...), graveyard usage like Punishing Fire, Goyf, Reanimator, Snapcaster, Life FTL (Relic of Progenitus and something of your choice, like Cage, Surgical, Macabre) and something to give unblockable when the opponent isn't playing with real lands like Islands (Tidal Warrior and/or Spreading Seas). Those are main concerns.
You should watch tuxdev's twitch 5-0 replays, like watching a marathon of movies with happy endings.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
It's certainly doable.
I personally don't like splashing colors, which is why I play both Merfolk and D&T being mono color...
And I'm already bringing in a bunch of cards from the sideboard to deal with D&T...
3 Dismember
2 Null Rod
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Echoing Truth
While also having 3 Tidal Warrior main deck that help as well.
With the help of all of those cards and usually being on the play game 2 (no surprise there), the match-up from then on becomes slightly better.
Here's an example of a deck that splashed black if you're looking for inspiration:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14717&d=288521&f=LE
According to their SB, I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that they don't seem to like D&T and Elves all that much
Rd 1 Win against D&T. Game 1 got equipment and I lost. Games 2 and 3 I'm sure I just got lucky with True name
Rd 2 Win against Miracles. They didn't really have much either game.
Rd 3 Win against Sneak and show. I got my turn 1 AEther Vial Forced, I accidently passed turn with 2 wastelands. I needed the Vial. But I still win because he went for Sneak Attack when I had a Force of Will he wasn't expecting.
Rd 4 Loss against Lands. I came close to winning game 1 because of TNN. Game 2 He Choked me.
Rd 5 Loss against Miracles. I'm stuck on lands game 1 and he Counsel's Judgement on my Vial. I'm stuck with 4 Lords in hand. Game 2 he plays all 4 Terminus and I can't get the last damage in.
Overall I like the deck so far. Not really sure how to sideboard yet, but I'll get a better feel for it as I go. True Name Nemesis is an MVP. This deck gets to run 4 which is amazing. I'll be running the deck some more and possibly stick with it until Vegas.
Even better is when you have TNN down, Image in hand and copying TNN is not the best thing to do at that moment. Then you are having a blast beating the opponent with their fatties.
We can deal with Rishadan Port because of our own Vial, TNN blanks a lot of their removal and combat tricks, our own Jitte can keep pace with theirs and we have more creatures to suit it up with, Phantasmal Image can copy all their fun little creatures and make things awkward for their spells by copying Thalia and similar situations, our sideboard is usually much more punishing (null rod, echoing truth, dismember, pithing needle, etc...) so we can keep pace much better. While I don't know how much I could recommend it, Back to Basics can make their lands really awkward since all their important spells cost colored mana while ours are basically free, colorless, or can be put in with vial...so we can really lock them out of the most expensive spells or Karakas/Port nonsense
In my experience if we have a weak hand or we fall behind it can be very hard near impossible to claw our way back unless they make huge blunders or draw hot garbage.
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Twitch channel
2 more Cursecatchers would do the trick, as they really aren't that helpful.
If you're having a lot of trouble against D&T (which can be expected)...
I'd recommend you testing out bringing in a couple Null Rod and maybe even a Manriki-Gusari.
Having Null Rod in against D&T is a pretty big deal...
It allows you to take out the Aether Vials (which really aren't as awesome as many people think)...
And you get to keep more bodies and blue cards which can be needed.
Having those cards has allowed me to win a helluva lot more
But anyway, all the above extra is if D&T is abundant wherever you play.
Moat, flipped Delvers, Tabernacle, Lili, Pox, 2/2 firststrikers in Soldiers, beating with nonMerfolk...