Alright, I've gotten frustrated enough at my manabase to finally go back to 12-island despite my continued love of the raw utility of Warping Wail. Been mulliganing a lot of hands online where I'd keep if the Factory was an island. In addition, lately I've also felt a bit of a meta shift away from Miracles (where Wail really shines) and towards more Green stuff where I just want to do the classic lord-em-out plan and less tricksy interactive things (i.e. Wail). This is also my interpretation on DeathFromSnuSnu's list and recent success. I still think Wail is really really good, but it needs a little.. something.
One thing I *love* about that list is the 1-of Daze to keep people honest without having to commit to the downside of running 3-4. The real power of Daze is the implicit Thalia effect, we don't want to spend any more slots than necessary to put the fear of it into our opponents. I've usually thought you need 2 copies to induce the paranoia, but his list is indicating that just 1 might be enough. Unfortunately I don't have any Dazes online myself yet, waiting for EMA to drop with those as well.
I like his list as well, especially the Vendilion Clique. The only time I don't want to see that card is if I am struggling on lands... However, I think I want more Daze, like 2 or 3. It is so crucial in the early game to have some kind of non-Force of Will/Cursecatcher interaction, especially when you are fighting over a Chalice of the Void on 1 which can spell game over for a number of decks.
Those of us playing Chalice prefer it over Standstill, and there's usually not room for both. Standstill allows you to play more countermagic like Spell Pierce, but it also prefers a more Island-light build to fit in Mishra's Factory in addition to Mutavault; see tuxdev's move away from Factories above.
It used to be a thing, for sure. Not sure where it stands now, since I've never used it.
With regards to the 12-Island mana base... I think you guys are onto something here. I've definitely had a couple of Ls that I can solely attribute to but I think I'll squeeze some Spreading Seas into my sideboard in order to account for the loss of land hate that trimming Wastelands would cause.
I had forgotten just how disgusting Reej can get. This morning I started jamming 3 copies and the hand dump it enabled for me was just absurd. As I expected Miracles got slightly tougher and a lot riskier with all-ins, but I still beat them pretty handily. Deck feels so silky smooth again. I *still* really love Wail and wish I could justify it.. but just can't anymore. 10 islands is just too greedy. 11 islands might be okay, though.
On Standstill, the trouble is that it's kind of just merely fine when ahead, but outright miserable when behind. Literally the definition of win-more, but it was still pretty great along with the rest of the vial/wasteland/daze tempo package. The gameplan of tempo is to get ahead early, but with Delver and Deathrite getting printed the rest of the format has gotten faster while we're still stuck jamming 2-drops. Merfolk used to be a premier tempo deck, but now that gameplan is just inferior than any of the Delver variants. One of the primary principles of deckbuilding in any format is "don't play a bad version of a different deck". Nowadays with the Chalices, we've carved out a niche as the only stompy-style deck that can still play Force.
Comparing Standstill vs. Chalice, the exact thing that makes Standstill bad now is what makes Chalice really shine - the ridiculous density of 1-drops in the format. In addition, Standstill is just a 3-for-1, and what you draw might not be relevant. Chalice is quite often better than a 3-for-1, and the cards it's blocking are always relevant, especially removal. Standstill can draw extra dudes to replace the ones that get killed, but we still have to spend a lot of mana on replacement rather than just 2 mana once. Chalice isn't that great when you're behind on board, but it still helps you from falling any further behind whereas Standstill is an unplayable liability. The main downside to chalice is that if it gets removed somehow, the floodgates open on whatever it was blocking and no longer represents an X-for-1, whereas Standstill stays a 3-for-1.
Thanks for the lowdown, tuxdev. Your points make a lot of sense. And I'm glad you're seeing what I'm seeing with regards to Merrow Reejerey. Card is great, especially for the Stompy-style aggro/tempo hybrid this deck seems to be most comfortable operating as in Legacy.
I'm keeping this updated. My paper list is usually slightly different (mostly sideboard) due to meta differences and to some extent card availability (i.e. wasteland and daze).
I will never cut e-truth under any circumstance. It's too much of a security blanket. I always want to have the shot at topdecking an e-truth if I end up in what would otherwise be a straight zero-outer situation.
Thanks for the awesome reply, I am also heavily testing for the GP!!!!! I have been testing with 4 Phantasmal Image and I can see what you are saying, sometimes it is a non-Merfolk for Silvergill Adept and sometimes it has no relevant targets... but I am absolutely in love with it since it is so good vs the Eldrazi decks and provides some outs to the Show and Tell and Reanimator decks. Still, I think I may test down to 3. I noticed with 8 three-drops you pretty much have to run 21 lands. How has Wasteland been for you? In my testing it has been very meh, just too much Deathrite Shaman, etc. not making it worthwhile. Also, did you ever test more with Daze? I feel like I want 2-3 main.
What is your updated SB look like? Here is mine, in prep for a wide open field at the GP.
I need 21 lands So I'm considering cutting the daze for it. I never saw the daze, it came out a lot and I just didn't like it. I was playing 2 harbinger and 1 waterfront bouncer in place of 3 reejery before. I like reejery it's staying, but IDk about how many. I put the 4th image in the board for matches where I want lots of TNN or want to copy their guys, maybe it's better to not play it or play 2 reej and the 4th image.
I don't miss wasteland it was a tough switch but I'm seeing blue better and I'm happy. The 4 blue fetches, one of each, is a concession to miracles. yes that MU is already great for us, but if they get off 2 terminus we pretty much can't win it feels like, being able to shuffle 6+ creatures back is great. ( the "thinning" helps to I guess) V Clique is sweet.
For SB this is where I'm torn, I want a 2nd submerge I want a 3rd dismember. I also want 1 relic. Dunno where tho.
I've considered turning the daze into the 21st land and a reejery into either the image or clique to free up a SB slot. I've also considered Cutting a Reej and the clique for a 21st land and maybe 2 dazes ( I don't think 1 does anything I want to actually see it and threat it)
I went 6-1 in sea with fish before losing last two. And cashed in top 32 the SCG legacy's I've played with this. But I'm tired of 6-3 this at GP's.
I'd give a big no to fetches, despite the reasons you mention. The increased threat density after fetching after Terminus after Terminus after being paired with Miracles is much like the decreased land density of fetching out lands: very close to zero, and certainly less than the softness to Stifle, attendant life loss, etc.
I'll echo that Big No on fetches. Not worth the loss in resilience for a statistically immaterial impact in a matchup we're already quite comfortable with. The only fetch I'd ever entertain running is something that would not fetch for a second land type and tap for colorless instead, as that would unlock Wail in a much smoother way than the greedy 10-island 10-nonbasic mana I was trying. Such a card is never getting printed though, I can only just dream about it.
This morning I ended up creating a quite curious situation vs. Miracles (AnziD). I played a T2 Null Rod and then shortly after threw down a Jitte, which at first instinct is a total nonbo and a waste of 2 mana. However, this actually put him in a strange awkward position - he fetched at my EoT and started to cast Wear on my Rod, but then realized that it would unlock my Jitte, so he ended up just not casting it at all and saved it for a potential Chalice later (that I never actually drew in that game). I don't think Jitte's been used *that* way before
what do people do against the Eldrazi menace? I playtested today and it was....miserable. I have 2 Back to Basics and 3 Dismember on the side but they would just get Thought-Knot Seer out and rip out B2B and then run me over with ginormous creatures. Wasteland isn't even that good here since their curve is low and they run 25 lands. Is this matchup just that bad?
Eldrazi can get their unbeatable draws but I've done very well in the matchup overall. TNN and PI are our major trumps in the matchup. You'll need to give some more details before I can identify where you might be going wrong.
Eldrazi in Legacy just feels like a bad metalworker deck, they aren't all that interactive with us and most of the time we can easily race them. Sure Mimic can be a real pain, but I do play with Warping Wail so maybe that is why I don't see the match up as all that bad? TNN really is the star of the match up especially if you can get that delicious jitte on him.
I wouldn't underestimate the Eldrazi menace. While it's true that we match up pretty decently against them thanks to our counterspells and not being very affected by Chalice of the Void or Thorn of Amethyst (and the fact that they have no real answer for True-Name Nemesis), but they can still out-muscle us if we draw the wrong (aka the "big dumb aggro") half of our deck, especially in G1 when we're saddled with 4 completely dead Chalices and some questionably useful Cursecatchers.
I'm not trying to underestimate it, just the few times I played against it I never felt all that impressed or in any extra danger. Yeah they have their nut draws, but so did the Modern deck a few months ago. I'm much more worried about seeing a metalworker deck than Eldrazi is all I'm saying.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
https://youtu.be/9AAOD_yjrUQ
One thing I *love* about that list is the 1-of Daze to keep people honest without having to commit to the downside of running 3-4. The real power of Daze is the implicit Thalia effect, we don't want to spend any more slots than necessary to put the fear of it into our opponents. I've usually thought you need 2 copies to induce the paranoia, but his list is indicating that just 1 might be enough. Unfortunately I don't have any Dazes online myself yet, waiting for EMA to drop with those as well.
Twitch channel
https://youtu.be/x7MOpyKhDmo
Those of us playing Chalice prefer it over Standstill, and there's usually not room for both. Standstill allows you to play more countermagic like Spell Pierce, but it also prefers a more Island-light build to fit in Mishra's Factory in addition to Mutavault; see tuxdev's move away from Factories above.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
With regards to the 12-Island mana base... I think you guys are onto something here. I've definitely had a couple of Ls that I can solely attribute to but I think I'll squeeze some Spreading Seas into my sideboard in order to account for the loss of land hate that trimming Wastelands would cause.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
On Standstill, the trouble is that it's kind of just merely fine when ahead, but outright miserable when behind. Literally the definition of win-more, but it was still pretty great along with the rest of the vial/wasteland/daze tempo package. The gameplan of tempo is to get ahead early, but with Delver and Deathrite getting printed the rest of the format has gotten faster while we're still stuck jamming 2-drops. Merfolk used to be a premier tempo deck, but now that gameplan is just inferior than any of the Delver variants. One of the primary principles of deckbuilding in any format is "don't play a bad version of a different deck". Nowadays with the Chalices, we've carved out a niche as the only stompy-style deck that can still play Force.
Comparing Standstill vs. Chalice, the exact thing that makes Standstill bad now is what makes Chalice really shine - the ridiculous density of 1-drops in the format. In addition, Standstill is just a 3-for-1, and what you draw might not be relevant. Chalice is quite often better than a 3-for-1, and the cards it's blocking are always relevant, especially removal. Standstill can draw extra dudes to replace the ones that get killed, but we still have to spend a lot of mana on replacement rather than just 2 mana once. Chalice isn't that great when you're behind on board, but it still helps you from falling any further behind whereas Standstill is an unplayable liability. The main downside to chalice is that if it gets removed somehow, the floodgates open on whatever it was blocking and no longer represents an X-for-1, whereas Standstill stays a 3-for-1.
Twitch channel
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I will never cut e-truth under any circumstance. It's too much of a security blanket. I always want to have the shot at topdecking an e-truth if I end up in what would otherwise be a straight zero-outer situation.
Twitch channel
What is your updated SB look like? Here is mine, in prep for a wide open field at the GP.
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Dismember
1 Submerge
1 Misdirection
2 Back to Basics
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
4 AEther Vial
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spell Pierce
3 Flusterstorm
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Dismember
1 Submerge
Playing this for years and it just feels right. Wish me zero no-Island and SoF&I opponents
GL to all GP players this weekend. Represent!
https://youtu.be/1A0ntMjcEh8
https://youtu.be/rT3JMaafUmc
4 cavern
4 Mutavault
8 Island
4 Lord of A
4 Master of Pearl
4 Curse Catcher
4 TNN
4 silver gill
3 Phasntasmal Image
3 Merrow Reejery
1 V Clique
4 Chalice
4 Vial
1 Daze
1 V Clique
1 Image
3 Back 2 Basic
2 Fluster Storm
2 Dismember
2 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Submerge
2 Jitte
1 E Truth
I need 21 lands So I'm considering cutting the daze for it. I never saw the daze, it came out a lot and I just didn't like it. I was playing 2 harbinger and 1 waterfront bouncer in place of 3 reejery before. I like reejery it's staying, but IDk about how many. I put the 4th image in the board for matches where I want lots of TNN or want to copy their guys, maybe it's better to not play it or play 2 reej and the 4th image.
I don't miss wasteland it was a tough switch but I'm seeing blue better and I'm happy. The 4 blue fetches, one of each, is a concession to miracles. yes that MU is already great for us, but if they get off 2 terminus we pretty much can't win it feels like, being able to shuffle 6+ creatures back is great. ( the "thinning" helps to I guess) V Clique is sweet.
For SB this is where I'm torn, I want a 2nd submerge I want a 3rd dismember. I also want 1 relic. Dunno where tho.
I've considered turning the daze into the 21st land and a reejery into either the image or clique to free up a SB slot. I've also considered Cutting a Reej and the clique for a 21st land and maybe 2 dazes ( I don't think 1 does anything I want to actually see it and threat it)
I went 6-1 in sea with fish before losing last two. And cashed in top 32 the SCG legacy's I've played with this. But I'm tired of 6-3 this at GP's.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
This morning I ended up creating a quite curious situation vs. Miracles (AnziD). I played a T2 Null Rod and then shortly after threw down a Jitte, which at first instinct is a total nonbo and a waste of 2 mana. However, this actually put him in a strange awkward position - he fetched at my EoT and started to cast Wear on my Rod, but then realized that it would unlock my Jitte, so he ended up just not casting it at all and saved it for a potential Chalice later (that I never actually drew in that game). I don't think Jitte's been used *that* way before
Twitch channel
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Twitch channel
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB