Hey all I've been playing fish for a just a bit over a month now and played in 3 real tourneys. An IQ I won, GP Seattle where I started 6-1 to finish 6-3 :(, and recently Jersey where I finished 27th.
If I messed up the tags sorry I havnt posted on here since I was playing maze's end awhile ago. Anywho here's what and who I played. I don't remember everything but i'll try to write what I do remember
Round 1 Miracles VS Devon Acosta. RESULT: 2-0 Win.
This was his first legacy tourney and first time playing Miracles. It's already a pretty good MU and won easily. Was a very nice guy and asked a lot of questions about ways to play the MU better.
Round 2 DnT VS Porter Darby. RESULT: 2-0 Win.
Game 1 got to a good start with double TNN and a jitte. But I didn't verbally say you or his name so he went to block with a mom, I said you can't, he yelled judge, I said alright that's fine. Judge ruled I have to name a player (get a GW, only me but not him for failure to maintain gamestate) I obviously name him then write on a big sheet of paper TNN names Porter Darby and placed it in the middle of the game.
Game 2 Same thing happens and I cast TNN he just stares at me and say well, and I point to the paper still on the table. He couldn't deal with it quick enough and I got there. (Super hard MU imo and glad I got this.) TNN now become True-Name Nemeisis You when I cast it.
Round 3 UB Tezz VS Matt Keefer. RESULT: 2-1 Win.
I don't remember much of this MU I actually googled his name and MTG to remember what he played.
Round 4 Grixis Delver VS Dylan Donengan. RESULT 1-2 Loss.
Game 1 he mulls to 5. I go turn 1 Vial, turn 2 chalice for 1 and he scoops.
Game 2 I don't for a Pyromancer when I should have I thought I could deal with it but was wrong and I'm punished rightfully sho.
Game 3 He has a double delver flip and it's just a bit too much for me to deal with. I remember I mulled to 6 of island, vial, chalice, lord, TNN, Jitte and just had to keep and hope for the best.
Talking with Joe Bernal and Rudy after the round and remind me to always just remember force the card that beats you don't force anything else. This mantra stays in my head the rest of the tourney.
Round 5 Esper Stoneblade VS Brendan Gissack. Result 1-2 Loss.
I don't remember much on this MU but I do think Fish is favored here. I know I lost a super close game 3.
Round 6 Miracles VS Nathan Robinson. Result 2-1 Win.
Not much really to say but this is a good MU and Chalice for 1 is killer. He was super salty and seemed Irate that I beat him.
Round 7 Grixis Delver VS Ed Demicco. Result 2-0 Win.
Game 1 I vial then chalice for 1 is good enough for the scoop. Game 2 he goes D Shammy, I go vial, he then brainstorms and plays a land and shaman and attackes for one. I chalice for 1. Turn 3 he goes to play Young P I force he swings for 2. I go lord vial in Harbinger bounce shaman and he scoops.
Round 8 Esper Stoneblade VS Shaheen Soorani. Result 2-0 Win.
Game 1 is pretty good for me with double true name a chalice on one and a lord.
Game 2 is pretty long and at one point IIRC he taps out to kill some of my guys with a batterskull in hand. I have jitte and rip Back to basics. I also have chalice on 1 and it's about 2 turns before I find a Fish and win.
Round 9 Grixis Delver VS Noah Walker. Result 2-1 Win.
Game 1 Vial, into chalice for 1 is GG.
Game 2 Doulbe Delvers with Daze backups is GG.
Game 3 I remember it was really close and I had exactly one line to take. To force him to find bolt to win. I found the line took it he missed I won Islandwalk is great. Remind me and I'll try to remember what happened. I know at one point I wanted to cast a lord then vial in one but I did it backwards and activated vial first when to untap and he was very NO you cant So I just vialed then cast. Then next turn he brainstorms messes up the order and says to me I meant to put them the other way I'll fix it as he goes to he deck and I look at him like...really no your not they stay. Learned more about him later that night.
Day 2 in 33rd place.
Round 10 VS Elves Malatesta, Nicholas 0-2 Loss.
Game 1 I have a quick jitte and a chalice in hand but I don't force and he gets symbiote and the 2/1 kill and artifact elf. Then I die.
Game 2 I mull to 6 keep a hand with a jitte vial and TNN force and a lord and have to keep I'm not going to 5. He kills jitte again then I die shortly after.
This MU is tough, cage helps but I need to find more.
Round 11 VS 12 Post? Aksit, Kerimhan 2-0 Win.
Game 1 he can't get a Trinisphere under my Vial and I'm able to TNN and lord him out too quick.
Game 2 I counter his Ensnaring Bridge and attack with four 4/4's on turn 4.
Round 12 VS Grixis Delver Joe Parisi Result. 2-0 Win.
This MU played out like all the other Grixis MU have.
Round 13 VS BUG Delver Joe, Fasno 1-2 Loss.
Games 1-2 we roll each other.
Game 3 we get to a point with no cards in hand each and I have 2 lands in play an adept at 16 life with 2 TNN and a Phantasmal Image. He's at 11 with a flipped delver. He then drawas a D shaman and I see no lands for 5 turns and die. This one hurt bad.
Round 14 VS RUG Delver Li Xu 2-0 Win.
Game 1 bouncing his 1 drops with a chalice at 1 is really really good.
Game 2 Is a bit more tough but I get to a point with 2 TNN's and can safely attack for 4 a turn with a TNN while my chalice sits at 1.
Round 15 VS BUG Lands? Thomas Hepp Intional Draw for top 32.
Ask away.
I'll post more tomorrow just wanted to get this down before I forgot.
Lands is not one of the worst offenders anymore. We have Truth, Submerge and Vensers for his combo, Wastelands for Chasm, Vial and many basics for Tabernacle and his land denial, and of course Relic + Chalice at two for recursion. He can't deal with TNN.
They were randomly useful. Thinking back on it, I might just swap the sideboard Chalice with a Daze, since more often I was wanting a second Chalice than a Daze.
33whisky, congrats! I think there were only 3 of us Fish players who made it to Day 2; no idea who the other guy was. Looking at your report, damn, you played a lot of Delver! (6 that I counted?) Your round 5 opponent ended up being the guy I beat in round 15. That had to feel bad for him to have to lose to 2 of the only 3 Fish players that made Day 2 Your matchups look pretty decent for the most part so I'm not terribly surprised to see you rolled most of them. 12Post, Elves, and likely Lands I'd imagine are the worst offenders, with Tezz and D&T both probably being fairly close.
* No Jund or Abzan though for you; that was quite fortunate, though from the looks of your board you probably have a slightly easier time with it than me. Misdirection, Kira, and Back to Basics all probably do some damage there.
Not playing against those was nice but I feel my setup of the MD and SB help and I wasn't worried about it.
* How did you feel about having 2 Harbingers? He's mostly been kinda meh for me.
I want a 3rd. The card is great vs Lands and its so good bouncing back Delvers and D shammy while I have a chalice on 1, it effectively becomes a bear that exiles a guy.
* Is the second Jitte main worth losing the 4th Image for it? Also, why a third Jitte in the board vs a Manriki-Gusari? Is that how you are trying to win the Delver / Deathblade matchups?
I love the 2nd Jitte. It helps vs so many more MU than a 4th Image IMO. It makes the deck able to just steal wins more than a 4th image would allow. Also now having 3 jitte in the 75 helps vs Elves and DnT.
* What's your thoughts on your graveyard hate? I've been too concerned about using stuff that's vulnerable to Force / Decay and aren't active T1 on the draw.
I'm a bit confused on what MU's you mean in particular. I do want a 3rd grafdiggers cage if that means anything.
* It really concerns me that you don't have any way to deal with a resolved hate piece like Ensnaring Bridge in your entire 75. How do you handle those matchups?
That is a concern and I'm looking to find room for 1 ETruth there was 1 in the board the night before but I cut it for the 2nd Kira. I talked a lot with Joe and Rudy the night before and especially Joe just kept pounding into my head just force the thing you can't beat. Fish can fight through anything except a few certain cards. So that's how I played every match. Can I let X resolve and fight through it, if yes more often than not then fine. I mostly focused on things like E bridge the 1 time I saw it or forcing to push through my chalices vs Delver being okay with running out vial to hit one of their counters if needed first. Also young pyromancer is just always counter imo. every time I've let that card resolve I regret it.
* I should mention that I also tried to make a conscious effort with True Name to name a player. I think I did skip a few times, but no one gave me any grief over it. True-Name Nemesis You sounds like a fun and easy way not to forget though; I may start using that.
PLEASE DELETE THIS POST I FIXED UP MY FIRST HORRID QUOTE ATTEMPT BELOW
* No Jund or Abzan though for you; that was quite fortunate, though from the looks of your board you probably have a slightly easier time with it than me. Misdirection, Kira, and Back to Basics all probably do some damage there.
Not playing against those was nice but I feel my setup of the MD and SB help and I wasn't worried about it.
* How did you feel about having 2 Harbingers? He's mostly been kinda meh for me.
I want a 3rd. The card is great vs Lands and its so good bouncing back Delvers and D shammy while I have a chalice on 1, it effectively becomes a bear that exiles a guy.
* Is the second Jitte main worth losing the 4th Image for it? Also, why a third Jitte in the board vs a Manriki-Gusari? Is that how you are trying to win the Delver / Deathblade matchups?
I love the 2nd Jitte. It helps vs so many more MU than a 4th Image IMO. It makes the deck able to just steal wins more than a 4th image would allow. Also now having 3 jitte in the 75 helps vs Elves and DnT. As tought as the DnT MU is I don't like dedicating a single slot to it because we can win that MU by mulling looking for TNN's. The 2nd jitte in the main allows me to have a decent MU game 1 vs them. Misdirection helps to make them swords their own guys also. I am considering 2 wash away to help the elves and DnT MU. Shout out to Andrew Shrout for letting me know about that sweet piece!!
[qutoe]* What's your thoughts on your graveyard hate? I've been too concerned about using stuff that's vulnerable to Force / Decay and aren't active T1 on the draw.[/quote]
I'm a bit confused on what MU's you mean in particular. I do want a 3rd grafdiggers cage if that means anything.
* It really concerns me that you don't have any way to deal with a resolved hate piece like Ensnaring Bridge in your entire 75. How do you handle those matchups?
That is a concern and I'm looking to find room for 1 ETruth there was 1 in the board the night before but I cut it for the 2nd Kira. I talked a lot with Joe and Rudy the night before and especially Joe just kept pounding into my head just force the thing you can't beat. Fish can fight through anything except a few certain cards. So that's how I played every match. Can I let X resolve and fight through it, if yes more often than not then fine. I mostly focused on things like E bridge the 1 time I saw it or forcing to push through my chalices vs Delver being okay with running out vial to hit one of their counters if needed first. Also young pyromancer is just always counter imo. every time I've let that card resolve I regret it.
Definitely just think of TNN as TNNY and no more issues it helped me after round 2 the rest of the day. Though my opponent was a bit jerky about it so that's why I had a nice medium size piece of paper with TNN name his name on it sitting on my play mat (not covering any of my permanents)
Overall I'm happy with how the deck performed. I did cut 1 wasteland for the 11th island because about twice in 9 rounds in GPSEA I was wanting another island a couple more times. And I think i'll stick with that. As far as the lands MU goes. What Fanatic said about those SB pieces is true if you decide to play them. I felt as though I had an alright enough Mu with the needles, relic, kira, chalices, and B2B.
I may have mis read my opponents deck I think he was playing MUD and not 12 Post, but he did have locust lands, do both decks play locust lands? Even so I think our deck is faster than both and the MU is slightly in our favor. Just remember only force that one spell!!
I really feel like the only MU I need to work on more is Elves hopefully wash away turns out to be golden.
I've only played that TEZZ MU once (again this is only my 3rd time really playing the deck) But I feel like it's not a terrible MU. Defiantly have to think forward in terms of turns more than other MU's.
I think cage is good vs the reanimstor and Storm MU and also helps cover elves. Without GSZ elves is a lot slower. Also chalice at 1 is the nuts vs all three of those.
I forgot that UB Tezz has all that and it is a rough MU. In realizing that I didn't once see leyline, helm, or transmute artifact and our game two went a bit. I think he was playing some different UB Tezz type deck, his deck was relying hard on intuition. Maybe he never saw a leyline or transmute out of all those but I don't think it was tezzerator.
I agree with the fact that some decks have too many must counter targets.
This is just another reason to have 2 Vensers (in addition to Truth) in the sideboard. It will resolve through Cavern or Vial, which is nice.
Truth or Harbinger will not help when angry Emrakul is about to kick my teeth in.
Harbinger comes out quicker, keeps vial on 2, and is more tempo since it bounces at a faster speed. Turns 2 and later which helps bs the quick delver based decks.
I'm not opposed to venser but I'm not going want to dedicate 2 full slots because I'm scared of emerakul. If you do that you are essentially forced to mull till you have venser and it doesn't come down until turn 4/5 in which case you are probably already killed by emerakul. And if the argument is that you put it into play bs SnT I would argue gilded drake is better since it keeps vial on two, you can cast it sooner and you actually get their emerakul, having the 4th image would be good as well.
I also don't like the sometimes we can't counter everything argument. If any opponet vs any deck plays 3+ spells against you in a single game that just cold best you, you probably aren't going to win that MU regardless. I could see myself playing 1 ET or 1 Venser, but no way I'm cutting that deep into the SB 2 slots for a 4 mana card just because of emerakul. 2 ET because they also deal with problematic perms I won't disagree with.
While wash away is a 4 mana card it can come in vs multiple MUs. I don't know if it's better than hibernation but I will have to test it.
I personally don't like the faiere macs i feel like cage and chalice plus force is enough. But I could see how they also branch into things like vs lands as well.
I could test out the SB jitte as a manriki since I have two main. But I feel like you need jitte vs elves and they have a lot of ways to pop artifacts so you want that jittie ASAP. Jitt also is great vs DnT and other decks where manriki only seems good vs DnT. I guess it could be good in the mirror also.
Who said anything about Venser being good only vs Emrakul (not emerakul)? I guess you never bounced Sword of Fire&Ice vs D&T in the middle of combat?
Countered Supreme Verdict? Bounced Leyline of the Void in response to Helm of Obedience activation? Ensnaring Bridge, Elephant Grass, Peacekeeper, Glacial Chasm?
20/20 token, Show and Tell, Painter combo when he has 2 Red Blasts as backup, bouncing the right land when 12-post is ramping too much, Boseiju powered spell?
Being cold to a deck that has multiple must counter spells is not a good plan. Accepting those matchups as the "usual" loss is not serious tournament preparation.
Criticizing Venser is ok, but not when you have Kira, Ensnare, Leyline of the Void, Sower, Stifle or Swan Song there.
Wash Away does not exist. If you think Wash Out, that card is unplayable.
I won in the finals (Trials at GP Lille few months ago) against S&T when he decided to put Emrakul. I had enought permanents to survive while my Imaged (cast on my turn) Emrakul destroyed him.
It wasn't even the first time, Image rules.
But Emrakul did kicked me out from the Grand Prix top8 and PT invitation Never again.
If you're trying to "manage your opponent's board" you're probably not focusing on the right things. There aren't too many creatures we're worried about, and for those that are, we are often bigger than them a turn or two later. If you know there's an important creature, you should hold up FoW or Image. This week I played against Lands and was unable to submerge his Marit Lage, so I just Image'd it and everything was fine. That's why you run Image over Reejery. It can be your 5th-7th TNN, your 9th-11th Lord, etc.
I also run Clique which is really helpful in a lot of combo matchups (they cast Show and Tell, you Clique and remove their creature, etc) as well as flies to kill Delvers. G2/3 you should be able to manage what's going on much better.
While we have a few uphill matchups, I feel like the deck can successfully navigate them, assuming the opponent doesn't draw perfect and you draw garbage. The biggest thing about playing Merfolk is learning WHEN to Vial and WHICH creatures to Vial depending on the board state.
I won in the finals (Trials at GP Lille few months ago) against S&T when he decided to put Emrakul. I had enought permanents to survive while my Imaged (cast on my turn) Emrakul destroyed him.
It wasn't even the first time, Image rules.
But Emrakul did kicked me out from the Grand Prix top8 and PT invitation Never again.
Hello,
can you post your past lists and the current one?
Hello.
I had Modern Champs today so there was no time to respond (First in Swiss, lost in Top8 to WU Control).
I feel that Kira, Tidebinder and Recall are Modern cards and not needed for Legacy, at least there are greater concerns to be solved.
Crypt won't kill a Goyf or draw a card, Relic just keep on grinding. If I have a Chalice on one going, that is probably more crippling to my opponent than dead relic in hand for me.
Green/Red creatures will be stomped by TNN and those kind of decks are not even present in numbers.
Sower might be nice in a perfect Show situation but what if he shows Omniscience or Sneak? Venser does the same thing and much more.
D&T is a problem, but not impossible.
Burn or UR lists are just dead to Chalice on one (unlike its Modern brother, Legacy Burn is much more concentrated on one mana spells). You have to deal with first turn Delver only.
Miracles being the "best" is the best news for us.
I would like a complement to Adept more than one drop.
@wasabizod: How do you like those Back to Basics in your SB, and what do you bring them in against?
I love them. I tend to bring them in against Lands, any greedy deck with no basics, Infect...even Stoneblade sometimes. I find them to be tremendously useful, since no one expects them and they almost always resolve. It does affect Mutavault and Cavern, but this is usually worth the tradeoff since I can keep using islands and vial to bring creatures in and I'll hold off tapping mutavault and waiting for an attack.
Venser is a complement to Echoing Truth, answer to everything unusual, a counterspell we can make uncounterable, not just for Show&Tell.
Sower is too narrow to have a slot and definitely not on Venser level.
If I hit 50% of burn spells with Chalice, playing around Eidolon is easy with Vial. Against Price we should have no problem with Vial and 12 basic lands.
My list even have 2 Jitte in the main. Burn should fear us more than we them in Legacy.
Show & Tell, Omniscience, Sneak Attack and Reanimator: you cannot win the counterspell war, so I will steal or copy their beefs
Green/Red creatures played in decks without Island (= they can block), so I play Tidebinder (which is superior to Harbinger of the Tides in this case) and Submerge
Death & Taxes
Burn or UR Lists, which are too fast
I do not worry about other blue based decks like Stoneblade or BUG and RUG, because those play island and their finishers are creatures, so I can get past them with islandwalk.
I use Tormod's Crypt because it's free and if you resolve a Chalice at 1 you cannot play Relic of Progenitus.
I have not tested yet against Miracles, what is your experience?
Do you agree with my considerations?
Thanks FANAttIC for the lists, I'm very grateful and I think I can see the scheme behind them now.
I would like to underline one more time that the deck is still missing another aggressive 1-drop, but there are no interesting options.
Do you feel the same?
I'm sorry alus84, I forgot to reply to you! On the other hand, FANAttIC already replied to the points you mentions and I have nothing to add.
But concerning your issue with combo: looking at your SB and considering what you said, it appears that--sideboardwise--you basically gave up the combo matchup in favor of non blue creature decks. Has this plan been working for you? Do you feel favored post board against the D&T, Maverick and co.?
My mainboard is basically the one you said you'd try but +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Waterfront Bouncer, -1 Echoing Thruth, -1 Misdirection. My sideboard is this:
I'm not claiming it's tuned to perfection or anything but I have a good amount of countermagic (5 pieces if you count Chalice) and I feel favored post board against combo. On the other hand, I don't feel favored against the non blue creature decks, but these matchups are always close (not talking about Elves and Goblins...)
Personally, I haven't really felt like we need another 1-drop, but some people have enjoyed Cosi's Trickster (the 1-mana Tarmogoyf). Have you tried toying with him?
Regarding to the non blue creature decks. In fact (playing D&T too) I think Elves and D&T are our worst mu's. For me it's like I'm fine against blue decks but non blue decks has always been a problem for Merfolk and their main weakness. Blue decks on the other hand should be mostly good mu's outside of Sneak&Show, Reanimator and Omnitel because they are too fast or have more countermagic than we do.
I find Sneak and Show to be a pretty good matchup, and Omnitell isn't a good deck any more since they lost DTT. Same with reanimator, they generally forget that Phantasmal Image does a lot of heavy lifting, and if they take a while to set up hands and have to pump all their countermagic into getting around Chalice, you can be quick enough to make Griselbrand a terrible card.
Goblins is also basically unwinnable. I have found mainboard dismembers helpful, and they also do some heavy lifting in the D&T matchup. For the most part I have begun to avoid playing Merfolk in my current meta, as it is absolute garbage - it is centered around 6 D&T decks, 4 Merfolk decks and 3 Lands decks, which is just absolute chaos and horrible for the most part. I am going to be taking the deck to GP Prague next year which means I'll have to learn to play the Chalice version properly [there is no Delver in my meta so chalices MB are pointless]
This is the list I think I'm going to try for the next big thing I go to. I'm hoping to improve my non-blue matchups (Jund/Abzan, Cloudpost, DnT, Elves) without sacrificing much of the blue decks. I think this board should work a bit more favorably.
4 Phantasmal seems like too many - I feel like you could cut 1 and the Daze which seems pointless as a 1-of and run 2 Merrow Reejerey instead. I'd recommend trying at least 1 Waterfront Bouncer in the board instead of a second Echoing Truth as it is recurring removal and is also a Merfolk. Good manabase, I have been extolling the virtues of the 3/3/3 split for ages now.
I was at a 1K last night and started 4-1 losing to burn, but then I lost to burn again and infect and finished 4-3
How do you guys feel about the Burn matchup? It didn't feel like I could do much about it and I got kind of unlucky. I lost a game where I flooded out and another where my opponent had 3 Smash to Smithereens for my Chalices and Jitte.
Hilariously enough, I won a game where my opponent landed Ensnaring Bridge, but I had a Chalice on 1 and 2 so I couldn't use the one Echoing Truth in my deck. I eventually landed Chalice on 3 and hardcasted every Force I had on all of the Fireblasts. It got to the point where I hardcasted 2 in a row. Sure enough, since he was fetching he had 3 cards less in his deck than mine and he decked out. Achievement unlocked: decked out burn. This was of course anticlimactic as I proceed to flood out the next game and lose.
I see Truth is winning as usual, people should always have one copy in the main.
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX
Here is the list I played
4 Cursecatcher
2 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis
11 Island
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
Spells (14)
4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Back to Basics
3 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
If I messed up the tags sorry I havnt posted on here since I was playing maze's end awhile ago. Anywho here's what and who I played. I don't remember everything but i'll try to write what I do remember
Round 1 Miracles VS Devon Acosta. RESULT: 2-0 Win.
This was his first legacy tourney and first time playing Miracles. It's already a pretty good MU and won easily. Was a very nice guy and asked a lot of questions about ways to play the MU better.
Round 2 DnT VS Porter Darby. RESULT: 2-0 Win.
Game 1 got to a good start with double TNN and a jitte. But I didn't verbally say you or his name so he went to block with a mom, I said you can't, he yelled judge, I said alright that's fine. Judge ruled I have to name a player (get a GW, only me but not him for failure to maintain gamestate) I obviously name him then write on a big sheet of paper TNN names Porter Darby and placed it in the middle of the game.
Game 2 Same thing happens and I cast TNN he just stares at me and say well, and I point to the paper still on the table. He couldn't deal with it quick enough and I got there. (Super hard MU imo and glad I got this.) TNN now become True-Name Nemeisis You when I cast it.
Round 3 UB Tezz VS Matt Keefer. RESULT: 2-1 Win.
I don't remember much of this MU I actually googled his name and MTG to remember what he played.
Round 4 Grixis Delver VS Dylan Donengan. RESULT 1-2 Loss.
Game 1 he mulls to 5. I go turn 1 Vial, turn 2 chalice for 1 and he scoops.
Game 2 I don't for a Pyromancer when I should have I thought I could deal with it but was wrong and I'm punished rightfully sho.
Game 3 He has a double delver flip and it's just a bit too much for me to deal with. I remember I mulled to 6 of island, vial, chalice, lord, TNN, Jitte and just had to keep and hope for the best.
Talking with Joe Bernal and Rudy after the round and remind me to always just remember force the card that beats you don't force anything else. This mantra stays in my head the rest of the tourney.
Round 5 Esper Stoneblade VS Brendan Gissack. Result 1-2 Loss.
I don't remember much on this MU but I do think Fish is favored here. I know I lost a super close game 3.
Round 6 Miracles VS Nathan Robinson. Result 2-1 Win.
Not much really to say but this is a good MU and Chalice for 1 is killer. He was super salty and seemed Irate that I beat him.
Round 7 Grixis Delver VS Ed Demicco. Result 2-0 Win.
Game 1 I vial then chalice for 1 is good enough for the scoop. Game 2 he goes D Shammy, I go vial, he then brainstorms and plays a land and shaman and attackes for one. I chalice for 1. Turn 3 he goes to play Young P I force he swings for 2. I go lord vial in Harbinger bounce shaman and he scoops.
Round 8 Esper Stoneblade VS Shaheen Soorani. Result 2-0 Win.
Game 1 is pretty good for me with double true name a chalice on one and a lord.
Game 2 is pretty long and at one point IIRC he taps out to kill some of my guys with a batterskull in hand. I have jitte and rip Back to basics. I also have chalice on 1 and it's about 2 turns before I find a Fish and win.
Round 9 Grixis Delver VS Noah Walker. Result 2-1 Win.
Game 1 Vial, into chalice for 1 is GG.
Game 2 Doulbe Delvers with Daze backups is GG.
Game 3 I remember it was really close and I had exactly one line to take. To force him to find bolt to win. I found the line took it he missed I won Islandwalk is great. Remind me and I'll try to remember what happened. I know at one point I wanted to cast a lord then vial in one but I did it backwards and activated vial first when to untap and he was very NO you cant So I just vialed then cast. Then next turn he brainstorms messes up the order and says to me I meant to put them the other way I'll fix it as he goes to he deck and I look at him like...really no your not they stay. Learned more about him later that night.
Day 2 in 33rd place.
Round 10 VS Elves Malatesta, Nicholas 0-2 Loss.
Game 1 I have a quick jitte and a chalice in hand but I don't force and he gets symbiote and the 2/1 kill and artifact elf. Then I die.
Game 2 I mull to 6 keep a hand with a jitte vial and TNN force and a lord and have to keep I'm not going to 5. He kills jitte again then I die shortly after.
This MU is tough, cage helps but I need to find more.
Round 11 VS 12 Post? Aksit, Kerimhan 2-0 Win.
Game 1 he can't get a Trinisphere under my Vial and I'm able to TNN and lord him out too quick.
Game 2 I counter his Ensnaring Bridge and attack with four 4/4's on turn 4.
Round 12 VS Grixis Delver Joe Parisi Result. 2-0 Win.
This MU played out like all the other Grixis MU have.
Round 13 VS BUG Delver Joe, Fasno 1-2 Loss.
Games 1-2 we roll each other.
Game 3 we get to a point with no cards in hand each and I have 2 lands in play an adept at 16 life with 2 TNN and a Phantasmal Image. He's at 11 with a flipped delver. He then drawas a D shaman and I see no lands for 5 turns and die. This one hurt bad.
Round 14 VS RUG Delver Li Xu 2-0 Win.
Game 1 bouncing his 1 drops with a chalice at 1 is really really good.
Game 2 Is a bit more tough but I get to a point with 2 TNN's and can safely attack for 4 a turn with a TNN while my chalice sits at 1.
Round 15 VS BUG Lands? Thomas Hepp Intional Draw for top 32.
Ask away.
I'll post more tomorrow just wanted to get this down before I forgot.
PLEASE DELETE THIS POST I FIXED UP MY FIRST HORRID QUOTE ATTEMPT BELOW
Not playing against those was nice but I feel my setup of the MD and SB help and I wasn't worried about it.
I want a 3rd. The card is great vs Lands and its so good bouncing back Delvers and D shammy while I have a chalice on 1, it effectively becomes a bear that exiles a guy.
I love the 2nd Jitte. It helps vs so many more MU than a 4th Image IMO. It makes the deck able to just steal wins more than a 4th image would allow. Also now having 3 jitte in the 75 helps vs Elves and DnT. As tought as the DnT MU is I don't like dedicating a single slot to it because we can win that MU by mulling looking for TNN's. The 2nd jitte in the main allows me to have a decent MU game 1 vs them. Misdirection helps to make them swords their own guys also. I am considering 2 wash away to help the elves and DnT MU. Shout out to Andrew Shrout for letting me know about that sweet piece!!
[qutoe]* What's your thoughts on your graveyard hate? I've been too concerned about using stuff that's vulnerable to Force / Decay and aren't active T1 on the draw.[/quote]
I'm a bit confused on what MU's you mean in particular. I do want a 3rd grafdiggers cage if that means anything.
That is a concern and I'm looking to find room for 1 ETruth there was 1 in the board the night before but I cut it for the 2nd Kira. I talked a lot with Joe and Rudy the night before and especially Joe just kept pounding into my head just force the thing you can't beat. Fish can fight through anything except a few certain cards. So that's how I played every match. Can I let X resolve and fight through it, if yes more often than not then fine. I mostly focused on things like E bridge the 1 time I saw it or forcing to push through my chalices vs Delver being okay with running out vial to hit one of their counters if needed first. Also young pyromancer is just always counter imo. every time I've let that card resolve I regret it.
Definitely just think of TNN as TNNY and no more issues
Overall I'm happy with how the deck performed. I did cut 1 wasteland for the 11th island because about twice in 9 rounds in GPSEA I was wanting another island a couple more times. And I think i'll stick with that. As far as the lands MU goes. What Fanatic said about those SB pieces is true if you decide to play them. I felt as though I had an alright enough Mu with the needles, relic, kira, chalices, and B2B.
I may have mis read my opponents deck I think he was playing MUD and not 12 Post, but he did have locust lands, do both decks play locust lands? Even so I think our deck is faster than both and the MU is slightly in our favor. Just remember only force that one spell!!
I really feel like the only MU I need to work on more is Elves hopefully wash away turns out to be golden.
I've only played that TEZZ MU once (again this is only my 3rd time really playing the deck) But I feel like it's not a terrible MU. Defiantly have to think forward in terms of turns more than other MU's.
I forgot that UB Tezz has all that and it is a rough MU. In realizing that I didn't once see leyline, helm, or transmute artifact and our game two went a bit. I think he was playing some different UB Tezz type deck, his deck was relying hard on intuition. Maybe he never saw a leyline or transmute out of all those but I don't think it was tezzerator.
This is just another reason to have 2 Vensers (in addition to Truth) in the sideboard. It will resolve through Cavern or Vial, which is nice.
Truth or Harbinger will not help when angry Emrakul is about to kick my teeth in.
I'm not opposed to venser but I'm not going want to dedicate 2 full slots because I'm scared of emerakul. If you do that you are essentially forced to mull till you have venser and it doesn't come down until turn 4/5 in which case you are probably already killed by emerakul. And if the argument is that you put it into play bs SnT I would argue gilded drake is better since it keeps vial on two, you can cast it sooner and you actually get their emerakul, having the 4th image would be good as well.
I also don't like the sometimes we can't counter everything argument. If any opponet vs any deck plays 3+ spells against you in a single game that just cold best you, you probably aren't going to win that MU regardless. I could see myself playing 1 ET or 1 Venser, but no way I'm cutting that deep into the SB 2 slots for a 4 mana card just because of emerakul. 2 ET because they also deal with problematic perms I won't disagree with.
While wash away is a 4 mana card it can come in vs multiple MUs. I don't know if it's better than hibernation but I will have to test it.
I personally don't like the faiere macs i feel like cage and chalice plus force is enough. But I could see how they also branch into things like vs lands as well.
I could test out the SB jitte as a manriki since I have two main. But I feel like you need jitte vs elves and they have a lot of ways to pop artifacts so you want that jittie ASAP. Jitt also is great vs DnT and other decks where manriki only seems good vs DnT. I guess it could be good in the mirror also.
Countered Supreme Verdict? Bounced Leyline of the Void in response to Helm of Obedience activation? Ensnaring Bridge, Elephant Grass, Peacekeeper, Glacial Chasm?
20/20 token, Show and Tell, Painter combo when he has 2 Red Blasts as backup, bouncing the right land when 12-post is ramping too much, Boseiju powered spell?
Being cold to a deck that has multiple must counter spells is not a good plan. Accepting those matchups as the "usual" loss is not serious tournament preparation.
Criticizing Venser is ok, but not when you have Kira, Ensnare, Leyline of the Void, Sower, Stifle or Swan Song there.
Wash Away does not exist. If you think Wash Out, that card is unplayable.
It wasn't even the first time, Image rules.
But Emrakul did kicked me out from the Grand Prix top8 and PT invitation
3x Cavern of Souls
12x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Wasteland
Creatures
4x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
3x Phantasmal Image
4x Silvergill Adept
4x True-Name Nemesis
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Echoing Truth
4x Force of Will
Artifacts
4x AEther Vial
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Back to Basics
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Dismember
2x Flusterstorm
1x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spell Pierce
2x Submerge
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
If you're trying to "manage your opponent's board" you're probably not focusing on the right things. There aren't too many creatures we're worried about, and for those that are, we are often bigger than them a turn or two later. If you know there's an important creature, you should hold up FoW or Image. This week I played against Lands and was unable to submerge his Marit Lage, so I just Image'd it and everything was fine. That's why you run Image over Reejery. It can be your 5th-7th TNN, your 9th-11th Lord, etc.
I also run Clique which is really helpful in a lot of combo matchups (they cast Show and Tell, you Clique and remove their creature, etc) as well as flies to kill Delvers. G2/3 you should be able to manage what's going on much better.
While we have a few uphill matchups, I feel like the deck can successfully navigate them, assuming the opponent doesn't draw perfect and you draw garbage. The biggest thing about playing Merfolk is learning WHEN to Vial and WHICH creatures to Vial depending on the board state.
I think this list should serve you better! Also I'm surprised you complained about being weak to Combo. What is your SB like?
Hello.
I had Modern Champs today so there was no time to respond (First in Swiss, lost in Top8 to WU Control).
My past list from Trials and 12-3 result from main event is 6th from the bottom:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplil15/trial-winners-grand-prix-lille-2015-2015-07-04
Current is:
3x Cavern of Souls
12x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Wasteland
Creatures
4x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
3x Phantasmal Image
4x Silvergill Adept
4x True-Name Nemesis
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Echoing Truth
4x Force of Will
Artifacts
4x AEther Vial
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Chalice of the Void
3x Flusterstorm
1x Pithing Needle
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spell Pierce
2x Submerge
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
Congrats on your results! Can we get a tournament report?
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
There is a short one on page 149 and small tidbits on the Source: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8158-Deck-Merfolk/page378
Crypt won't kill a Goyf or draw a card, Relic just keep on grinding. If I have a Chalice on one going, that is probably more crippling to my opponent than dead relic in hand for me.
Green/Red creatures will be stomped by TNN and those kind of decks are not even present in numbers.
Sower might be nice in a perfect Show situation but what if he shows Omniscience or Sneak? Venser does the same thing and much more.
D&T is a problem, but not impossible.
Burn or UR lists are just dead to Chalice on one (unlike its Modern brother, Legacy Burn is much more concentrated on one mana spells). You have to deal with first turn Delver only.
Miracles being the "best" is the best news for us.
I would like a complement to Adept more than one drop.
Just my opinion, of course.
I love them. I tend to bring them in against Lands, any greedy deck with no basics, Infect...even Stoneblade sometimes. I find them to be tremendously useful, since no one expects them and they almost always resolve. It does affect Mutavault and Cavern, but this is usually worth the tradeoff since I can keep using islands and vial to bring creatures in and I'll hold off tapping mutavault and waiting for an attack.
Sower is too narrow to have a slot and definitely not on Venser level.
If I hit 50% of burn spells with Chalice, playing around Eidolon is easy with Vial. Against Price we should have no problem with Vial and 12 basic lands.
My list even have 2 Jitte in the main. Burn should fear us more than we them in Legacy.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I'm sorry alus84, I forgot to reply to you! On the other hand, FANAttIC already replied to the points you mentions and I have nothing to add.
But concerning your issue with combo: looking at your SB and considering what you said, it appears that--sideboardwise--you basically gave up the combo matchup in favor of non blue creature decks. Has this plan been working for you? Do you feel favored post board against the D&T, Maverick and co.?
My mainboard is basically the one you said you'd try but +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Waterfront Bouncer, -1 Echoing Thruth, -1 Misdirection. My sideboard is this:
1x Chalice
3x Dismember
2x Flusterstorm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Manriki-Gusari
2x Pithing Needle
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spell Pierce
1x Counterspell
I'm not claiming it's tuned to perfection or anything but I have a good amount of countermagic (5 pieces if you count Chalice) and I feel favored post board against combo. On the other hand, I don't feel favored against the non blue creature decks, but these matchups are always close (not talking about Elves and Goblins...)
Personally, I haven't really felt like we need another 1-drop, but some people have enjoyed Cosi's Trickster (the 1-mana Tarmogoyf). Have you tried toying with him?
I find Sneak and Show to be a pretty good matchup, and Omnitell isn't a good deck any more since they lost DTT. Same with reanimator, they generally forget that Phantasmal Image does a lot of heavy lifting, and if they take a while to set up hands and have to pump all their countermagic into getting around Chalice, you can be quick enough to make Griselbrand a terrible card.
Goblins is also basically unwinnable. I have found mainboard dismembers helpful, and they also do some heavy lifting in the D&T matchup. For the most part I have begun to avoid playing Merfolk in my current meta, as it is absolute garbage - it is centered around 6 D&T decks, 4 Merfolk decks and 3 Lands decks, which is just absolute chaos and horrible for the most part. I am going to be taking the deck to GP Prague next year which means I'll have to learn to play the Chalice version properly [there is no Delver in my meta so chalices MB are pointless]
4 Phantasmal seems like too many - I feel like you could cut 1 and the Daze which seems pointless as a 1-of and run 2 Merrow Reejerey instead. I'd recommend trying at least 1 Waterfront Bouncer in the board instead of a second Echoing Truth as it is recurring removal and is also a Merfolk. Good manabase, I have been extolling the virtues of the 3/3/3 split for ages now.
How do you guys feel about the Burn matchup? It didn't feel like I could do much about it and I got kind of unlucky. I lost a game where I flooded out and another where my opponent had 3 Smash to Smithereens for my Chalices and Jitte.
Hilariously enough, I won a game where my opponent landed Ensnaring Bridge, but I had a Chalice on 1 and 2 so I couldn't use the one Echoing Truth in my deck. I eventually landed Chalice on 3 and hardcasted every Force I had on all of the Fireblasts. It got to the point where I hardcasted 2 in a row. Sure enough, since he was fetching he had 3 cards less in his deck than mine and he decked out. Achievement unlocked: decked out burn. This was of course anticlimactic as I proceed to flood out the next game and lose.
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX