Well, it's the lest powerful threat to land on the board for one, and against aggro he's useless. It all depends on your environment. If you live in Seattle, I guess 4 Cursecatchers is the bomb
Ok, I have to admit the game has totally changed since I placed first at the channelfireball center, so Im facing back to back Legacy events (in two different cities) Ive never played in, so with an unknown meta and being out of Legacy since pre-new phyrexia can I have some opinions on my updated list? Mainly SB, thank you (you may see a lack of GY hate of course but I figure I have enough counters to back spells that would ruin my day from reanimator *shrug*)
I want to fit in 2 surgical extractions in the SB list for stupid things like Hive Mind or other cards that 'take the fun out of magic' as it were, after that first FOW or whatever removing their win conditions would me nice
@Sozukureed:
Maindeck: -1 Kira (Move to sideboard), -1 Phantasmal Image (Don't run these), -1 Daze (Three is fine)
+1 Jitte (Just to have it main, you need it sometimes), +2 Dismember (Leave 1 in the sideboard)
Sideboard: You now have 1 Kira, 1 Dismember.
I'd also recommend a plethora of 2-ofs, including Relic, Threads of Disloyalty, Llawan, Pithing Needle, and Spell Pierce. Up the Spell Pierces to 3 now, with SnT Hivemind getting all that play.
You don't need Energy Flux, Affinity isn't scary even if it was still a deck.
I agree with Glurman. I usually do 2 forms of GY hate, my SB being specifically 2 Relics 1 Tormod's. It's good to get around the "smart" dredge players playing Pithing Needle. It also is required, because if any dredge player or reanimator player catches you without GY hate, they just romp on you all day.
I'd say if you fear any of the Metalworker lists, Hyrkul's Recall is good stuff. They fear that spell D:
how does the deck feels like running without Standstill?
Well thats the thing, last time I played this I got 1st place out of 25 people but it was pre-new phyrexia so I played 4 Standstill instead of Mentalmistep and 4 Counterspells instead of dazes, so I have no idea what it feels like lol
@Sozukureed:
Maindeck: -1 Kira (Move to sideboard), -1 Phantasmal Image (Don't run these), -1 Daze (Three is fine)
+1 Jitte (Just to have it main, you need it sometimes), +2 Dismember (Leave 1 in the sideboard)
Sideboard: You now have 1 Kira, 1 Dismember.
I'd also recommend a plethora of 2-ofs, including Relic, Threads of Disloyalty, Llawan, Pithing Needle, and Spell Pierce. Up the Spell Pierces to 3 now, with SnT Hivemind getting all that play.
You don't need Energy Flux, Affinity isn't scary even if it was still a deck.
Those seem like good suggestions, I liked my idea of a Image one-of due to the fact it could be another LoA or in a pinch copy and remove a cheated in Emrakul or Proginitus. Threads seems so limited since on the draw I cant get it out fast enough to stop a resolved SFM so the only real good target is Gyof which Ive never been too afraid of, the only time I even lost to zoo was getting stale hands. But I always seem to lose to affinity, fast cranial plating and ravagers just ruin my day, even with Hyrkul's recall he came back so fast and I still lost it was nuts!
However funny story when I played Countersliver against one, Ravager solo attacked and I added up all of his artifacts he could sac, blocked with everything, and vialed in a Talon Sliver... he wasnt too mad until on my turn I vialed in a Harmonic to deal with the counters he assigned to the thopter, lawl
I don't like threads too. I prefer mind harness or even submerge, but that's just me. I still like energy flux for some reason. Some people prefer sower to steal the emrakul or w/e. but i think the phantasmal is a good bet (for prog). Im thinking of putting around 1 or 2 as well.
Sideboard, as always, is meta dependent. If you don't have Tarmogoyfs or other fun things that cost two or less to steal, then don't play them.
Submerge can be a great choice or a terrible one as well. Don't submerge a Goyf or KotR if they aren't cracking a fetchland or whatnot. If the deck's not going to be doing that.... say you're playing in a stoneforge mystic and hivemind filled meta... don't run it!
Also, sozu... you have no trouble with zoo? The hell? I mean, I've beaten zoo, plenty of times, but it's been WORK.
Sideboard, as always, is meta dependent. If you don't have Tarmogoyfs or other fun things that cost two or less to steal, then don't play them.
Submerge can be a great choice or a terrible one as well. Don't submerge a Goyf or KotR if they aren't cracking a fetchland or whatnot. If the deck's not going to be doing that.... say you're playing in a stoneforge mystic and hivemind filled meta... don't run it!
Also, sozu... you have no trouble with zoo? The hell? I mean, I've beaten zoo, plenty of times, but it's been WORK.
Well, since this was back before new phyrexia I rolled with submerges in the side and 2 MB echoing truth (one time I used it on step 3 lynx after 2 fetches were cracked lolol). Since they dont use vial, so I saved counterspells for Gyof and I used pithing needle on Knights. Removal was easily thwarted with MB Kira and their stuff really doesnt get bigger then that. Holding a 2 lord hand pretty much gets the job done *shrug* The only time I remember losing was I kept a hand that had 3 silvergill adepts thinking my draw would be sweet but lost due to 5 land in a row... bummer
I still use needles but I replaced submerge and truth with Dismembers since they get there so much easier!
Anyone have any ideas on JTMS in MB (or SB) for merfolk? Or is the 4 mana just too much for this type of deck?
the problem is not only the 2UU, but the sinergy you loose by running JtMS.
Even thou a sick card.. this deck doesn't really need him. This means by no way that you wont make him work for you, but this (i believe at least) that would change completly the face of your deck, and you will end up tweaking here and there to make him work and fit better.
I dunno.. maybe you try it and find that it rocks hard, but it depends on your meta. If you includ Jace 2.0.. im sure you will need to change your strategy from pin-explosive aggro/control to ALMOST fully control with some merfolks
here you could cut 1-2 Metamorph towards 1-2 sower of temptations she comboes away with kira.
Also i see you run no Dismember MB.. how is your meta evolving to your match up? don't you have problems against aggro?
And as usual.. i will ask you..
HOW DOES THE DECK WORKS (FOR YOU/FOR YOUR META) WITHOUT THE STANDSTILL?
the problem is not only the 2UU, but the sinergy you loose by running JtMS.
Even thou a sick card.. this deck doesn't really need him. This means by no way that you wont make him work for you, but this (i believe at least) that would change completly the face of your deck, and you will end up tweaking here and there to make him work and fit better.
I dunno.. maybe you try it and find that it rocks hard, but it depends on your meta. If you includ Jace 2.0.. im sure you will need to change your strategy from pin-explosive aggro/control to ALMOST fully control with some merfolks
here you could cut 1-2 Metamorph towards 1-2 sower of temptations she comboes away with kira.
Also i see you run no Dismember MB.. how is your meta evolving to your match up? don't you have problems against aggro?
And as usual.. i will ask you..
HOW DOES THE DECK WORKS (FOR YOU/FOR YOUR META) WITHOUT THE STANDSTILL?
not sure. i wanna get into merfolk. i have all the staples except the actual fish, so i was wondering if this deck is good.
not sure. i wanna get into merfolk. i have all the staples except the actual fish, so i was wondering if this deck is good.
Ohh.. believe (us? anyone help me? :p) me the deck is really good.. Have a LOT of strong edges... Rerally works against almost everything but (and i may get heavy about this (i dunno if it means the same in USA than here :D).. but is just how it is) heavy aggro. UB has really good post board support to deal with this.. and UW has really good MB answers too. Overall.. is a good deck, that in a given point.. it explodes on your oponent face.
Ohh.. believe (us? anyone help me? :p) me the deck is really good.. Have a LOT of strong edges... Rerally works against almost everything but (and i may get heavy about this (i dunno if it means the same in USA than here :D).. but is just how it is) heavy aggro. UB has really good post board support to deal with this.. and UW has really good MB answers too. Overall.. is a good deck, that in a given point.. it explodes on your oponent face.
Your call.. i dare say you wont regret it
indeed true! she is the MVP of the deck. I passed it up and did not notice to mention it.. thanks!
thanks, but how would i tweak the deck to add 4 silvergills, 4 standstills, and 3 dismember in the mainboard
i found myself cutting the 4th standstill towards the 21st land (i was doing 20)
i always run jitte MB (as 2of) until dissmember showed up.. i dunno.. i prefer the instant as it can deal with relatively large criatures fast enough (and as i play UB lives are not always a problem)
the cursecatchers... well.. against aggro they well drop on the floor and cry... as they don't really help much (at all?). The metamorph is a great card also (as i do not own any Kira i run him as 1 of) to deal with some pesky dude that is aiming for your face.. at worse he is another lord (in ocations) or a Batterskull or any Sword... or even the woese scenario.. FoW fodder.
It depends on how you feel runnig the deck.. any cut or addition may work marvells if you find a way to abuse them.. My best bet would be to add the Standstills and the dissmembers, as you will own many decks 1st match via
kira + standstill + dissmember
but.. is really up to how you feel the deck and how aggresive your meta is
i found myself cutting the 4th standstill towards the 21st land (i was doing 20)
i always run jitte MB (as 2of) until dissmember showed up.. i dunno.. i prefer the instant as it can deal with relatively large criatures fast enough (and as i play UB lives are not always a problem)
the cursecatchers... well.. against aggro they well drop on the floor and cry... as they don't really help much (at all?). The metamorph is a great card also (as i do not own any Kira i run him as 1 of) to deal with some pesky dude that is aiming for your face.. at worse he is another lord (in ocations) or a Batterskull or any Sword... or even the woese scenario.. FoW fodder.
It depends on how you feel runnig the deck.. any cut or addition may work marvells if you find a way to abuse them.. My best bet would be to add the Standstills and the dissmembers, as you will own many decks 1st match via
kira + standstill + dissmember
but.. is really up to how you feel the deck and how aggresive your meta is
would the deck run pretty smooth without kira. I don't really want to spend 15 bucks on 2 cards just for something that isn't all too great.
so i should move 3 curse catchers to the sideboard then? my meta is wide open. lots of RUG, BANTS, hivemind, everything....it is Los Angeles.
Umm, if you have that much control in your meta, keep them in. I'd say yes, spend the money on Kiras. Grim Lavamancer is not your friend in RUG, and Swords isnt your friend either in Bant. You don't THINK it's that great, but it forces your opponent to use 2 removal on 1 guy just to get rid of a minor threat that isn't Coralhelm Commander
But, I guess it also depends on how many decks you see run removal. The more intensive removal in your area, the higher chances you want Kira SB at least. I bought them while they were @ $8 a piece ;D but they can definitely save your hide.
If you fear more combo, don't even bother running Standstill. They look at you, laugh as they crack it with a Ponder, and then Duress/IoK/Thoughtseize what you just drew, and go off. Least smart ones will.
how does this look? what should i cut to add the 2 sower in the board? what about threads of disloyalty
Well, you either run Metamorphs or Sowers. You don't run both. but I'd only run 2 Sowers personally, so you'd have to find another card to add. Probably a Relic of Prog to get around Pithing Needle.
Is this deck worth building? Yes, yes and yes. I have a problem finding another deck that is budget friendly and this competitive.
Also this might be bold but I will back it up with undying might. Adept is probably the best merfolk in the deck. Running anything less than four is not optimal. Period.
Also I see people dropping cursecatcher. I can understand that he is not great in heavy aggro metas, but if you are in a position to drop catchers because you are being overwhelmed by aggro, then is this the deck to sleeve up? Also isn't dropping catchers to make room for standstills a little counterproductive if you are building to face aggro?
Personally I think the deck doesn't have room to fit in standstill as well as dismembers/kiras. I've always loved standstill but I am starting to test without it and I am actually liking it.
I played vs a dead-ale guy deck and, idk if it was just my inexperience vs the deck, but i found it quite difficult to win against him =/ what's the general strategy? =/ they thoughtsieze my counters, stp my creatures, and i super hate tidehollow =/
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I want to fit in 2 surgical extractions in the SB list for stupid things like Hive Mind or other cards that 'take the fun out of magic' as it were, after that first FOW or whatever removing their win conditions would me nice
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
13 Island" target="blank">Island
Creatures
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Aether Vial
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Dismember
3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 spell pierce`
2 Energy Flux
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@Sozukureed:
Maindeck: -1 Kira (Move to sideboard), -1 Phantasmal Image (Don't run these), -1 Daze (Three is fine)
+1 Jitte (Just to have it main, you need it sometimes), +2 Dismember (Leave 1 in the sideboard)
Sideboard: You now have 1 Kira, 1 Dismember.
I'd also recommend a plethora of 2-ofs, including Relic, Threads of Disloyalty, Llawan, Pithing Needle, and Spell Pierce. Up the Spell Pierces to 3 now, with SnT Hivemind getting all that play.
You don't need Energy Flux, Affinity isn't scary even if it was still a deck.
I'd say if you fear any of the Metalworker lists, Hyrkul's Recall is good stuff. They fear that spell D:
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Well thats the thing, last time I played this I got 1st place out of 25 people but it was pre-new phyrexia so I played 4 Standstill instead of Mentalmistep and 4 Counterspells instead of dazes, so I have no idea what it feels like lol
Those seem like good suggestions, I liked my idea of a Image one-of due to the fact it could be another LoA or in a pinch copy and remove a cheated in Emrakul or Proginitus. Threads seems so limited since on the draw I cant get it out fast enough to stop a resolved SFM so the only real good target is Gyof which Ive never been too afraid of, the only time I even lost to zoo was getting stale hands. But I always seem to lose to affinity, fast cranial plating and ravagers just ruin my day, even with Hyrkul's recall he came back so fast and I still lost it was nuts!
However funny story when I played Countersliver against one, Ravager solo attacked and I added up all of his artifacts he could sac, blocked with everything, and vialed in a Talon Sliver... he wasnt too mad until on my turn I vialed in a Harmonic to deal with the counters he assigned to the thopter, lawl
Submerge can be a great choice or a terrible one as well. Don't submerge a Goyf or KotR if they aren't cracking a fetchland or whatnot. If the deck's not going to be doing that.... say you're playing in a stoneforge mystic and hivemind filled meta... don't run it!
Also, sozu... you have no trouble with zoo? The hell? I mean, I've beaten zoo, plenty of times, but it's been WORK.
Well, since this was back before new phyrexia I rolled with submerges in the side and 2 MB echoing truth (one time I used it on step 3 lynx after 2 fetches were cracked lolol). Since they dont use vial, so I saved counterspells for Gyof and I used pithing needle on Knights. Removal was easily thwarted with MB Kira and their stuff really doesnt get bigger then that. Holding a 2 lord hand pretty much gets the job done *shrug* The only time I remember losing was I kept a hand that had 3 silvergill adepts thinking my draw would be sweet but lost due to 5 land in a row... bummer
I still use needles but I replaced submerge and truth with Dismembers since they get there so much easier!
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Silvergill Adept
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
13 Island
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Dismember
3 Spell Pierce
3 surgical extractions
2 Tormod's crypt
any suggestions?
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the problem is not only the 2UU, but the sinergy you loose by running JtMS.
Even thou a sick card.. this deck doesn't really need him. This means by no way that you wont make him work for you, but this (i believe at least) that would change completly the face of your deck, and you will end up tweaking here and there to make him work and fit better.
I dunno.. maybe you try it and find that it rocks hard, but it depends on your meta. If you includ Jace 2.0.. im sure you will need to change your strategy from pin-explosive aggro/control to ALMOST fully control with some merfolks
here you could cut 1-2 Metamorph towards 1-2 sower of temptations she comboes away with kira.
Also i see you run no Dismember MB.. how is your meta evolving to your match up? don't you have problems against aggro?
And as usual.. i will ask you..
HOW DOES THE DECK WORKS (FOR YOU/FOR YOUR META) WITHOUT THE STANDSTILL?
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not sure. i wanna get into merfolk. i have all the staples except the actual fish, so i was wondering if this deck is good.
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where would i find space for 3 dismember in the main and 4 standstills?
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Ohh.. believe (us? anyone help me? :p) me the deck is really good.. Have a LOT of strong edges... Rerally works against almost everything but (and i may get heavy about this (i dunno if it means the same in USA than here :D).. but is just how it is) heavy aggro. UB has really good post board support to deal with this.. and UW has really good MB answers too. Overall.. is a good deck, that in a given point.. it explodes on your oponent face.
Your call.. i dare say you wont regret it
indeed true! she is the MVP of the deck. I passed it up and did not notice to mention it.. thanks!
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thanks, but how would i tweak the deck to add 4 silvergills, 4 standstills, and 3 dismember in the mainboard
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+1 silvergill
+2 dismember
hahaha im not exactly sure for the standstill build, but you can also cut 1 cursecatcher as it does nothing to aggro =/
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Coralhelm Commander
1 Cursecatcher (unless you face a lot of combo/control, in wich case it should be a 4 of)
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Dissmember
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
Enchantments
3 Standstill
4 Aether Vial
Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
13 Island
so.. "tweaking it"
i found myself cutting the 4th standstill towards the 21st land (i was doing 20)
i always run jitte MB (as 2of) until dissmember showed up.. i dunno.. i prefer the instant as it can deal with relatively large criatures fast enough (and as i play UB lives are not always a problem)
the cursecatchers... well.. against aggro they well drop on the floor and cry... as they don't really help much (at all?). The metamorph is a great card also (as i do not own any Kira i run him as 1 of) to deal with some pesky dude that is aiming for your face.. at worse he is another lord (in ocations) or a Batterskull or any Sword... or even the woese scenario.. FoW fodder.
It depends on how you feel runnig the deck.. any cut or addition may work marvells if you find a way to abuse them.. My best bet would be to add the Standstills and the dissmembers, as you will own many decks 1st match via
kira + standstill + dissmember
but.. is really up to how you feel the deck and how aggresive your meta is
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MY HAVE / WANT LIST
would the deck run pretty smooth without kira. I don't really want to spend 15 bucks on 2 cards just for something that isn't all too great.
so i should move 3 curse catchers to the sideboard then? my meta is wide open. lots of RUG, BANTS, hivemind, everything....it is Los Angeles.
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But, I guess it also depends on how many decks you see run removal. The more intensive removal in your area, the higher chances you want Kira SB at least. I bought them while they were @ $8 a piece ;D but they can definitely save your hide.
If you fear more combo, don't even bother running Standstill. They look at you, laugh as they crack it with a Ponder, and then Duress/IoK/Thoughtseize what you just drew, and go off. Least smart ones will.
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2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Coralhelm Commander
1x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Silvergill Adept
Instants
3x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
2x dismember
4x Aether Vial
3x standstill
Lands
4x Mutavault
4x Wasteland
13x Island
1x Dismember
3x Spell Pierce
2x Tormod's crypt
3x cursecatcher
3x phyrexian metamorph
3x surgical extraction
how does this look? what should i cut to add the 2 sower in the board? what about threads of disloyalty
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Well, you either run Metamorphs or Sowers. You don't run both. but I'd only run 2 Sowers personally, so you'd have to find another card to add. Probably a Relic of Prog to get around Pithing Needle.
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Also this might be bold but I will back it up with undying might. Adept is probably the best merfolk in the deck. Running anything less than four is not optimal. Period.
Also I see people dropping cursecatcher. I can understand that he is not great in heavy aggro metas, but if you are in a position to drop catchers because you are being overwhelmed by aggro, then is this the deck to sleeve up? Also isn't dropping catchers to make room for standstills a little counterproductive if you are building to face aggro?
Personally I think the deck doesn't have room to fit in standstill as well as dismembers/kiras. I've always loved standstill but I am starting to test without it and I am actually liking it.
And against UW Stoneblade, there is nothing better than playing a standstill the turn before their Ancestral Vision is going to go off