Thanks to Zirath for the awesome banner! Natural Order Red/Blue/Green (NO RUG)
History.
It started with SCG ringers. AJ Sacher and Drew Levin were brewing NO/Show, which was essentially the Bant version of this deck with a Show and Tell plan added and no Goyfs. Drew moved on from the deck but AJ stuck with it and turned it into NO Bant, which at first ran a bunch of jank like Scryb Ranger, Rhox War Monk, Fauna Shaman and Terravore as 1-ofs. Then Todd Anderson picked up on the deck and both had some success with it, but later Reid Duke switched out the white for red, running 4 Bolts and 2 Chain Lightnings (Mental Misstep wasn't out yet). AJ moved on, but Anderson switched to that build and both have been developing it ever since.
This deck has had a breakout performance in the current metagame, and is simply one of the most powerful strategies you can play, NO and Progenitus, packed with the best disruption the game has to offer, which is Mental Misstep and Force of Will. It took it's roots from NO Bant, and changed it's removal suite from White to Red. In doing so, it gave up ways to deal with larger creatures and played a more tempo oriented game, all culminating in a Natural Order into Progenitus. It also changed it creature base to be more disruptive in the form of Vendilion Clique instead of Knight of the Reliquary.
The Core.
All NO decks will play with a core set of cards to make sure Natural Order can go off without a hitch. However RUG and Bant NO decks play a much different core than Elves, so I will be focusing on that. They need to play Progenitus, Dryad Arbor and Natural Order. Planting us in Green means we have access to Tarmogoyf. It also gives us access to Noble Hierarch, which not only ramps into NO, but helps win Goyf wars when on the attack. A Blue counter suite is also core in these decks, and numbers are based off personal play style, which I will go over later. Lastly is Lightning Bolt, which is the removal of choice for this deck simply because it can deal with most of the threats being played in the current metagame.
Card choices.
As previously mentioned, let me start with the core.
Tarmogoyf This guy can win you games even without NO. Add in Green Sun's Zenith, and you effectively play 7-8 Goyfs MD, which not many other decks can match.
Noble Hierarch Better than Birds of Paradise by far, this guy can ramp, pump, be sacrificed to NO, negate land disruption and be tutored for with Zenith. He just fits all facets of this deck that a 1 drop, and is a terrific tempo play.
Brainstorm This is the best card in Legacy, and people who don't that, haven't played with it enough. This is a staple in any Blue deck that isn't mono.
Ponder While not quite good as Brainstorm, it helps dig for answers, for threats, and pumps up Goyf. The only thing more you could ask for for 1 mana was 2 more Brainstorms.
Force of Will This helps against combo. Plain and simple. There are quite a few decks which this actually gets sided out against, but the threat of having it means you can NOwith only 4 mana and counter back up to just straight up win on the back of Progenitus.
Daze This counterspell is the perfect compliment to Noble Hierarch. Being able to lead with Hierarch and than Daze a turn 1 or 2 play is just simply so good. A lot of Blue decks have started to cut this because they can't shake off the tempo disadvantage, but not in this deck, which makes it a perfect weapon in our arsenal for a quick NO.
Mental Misstep The new boogeyman in Legacy, but it's our boogeyman. This card has invalidated a lot of the combo matchups that used to see rampant play. It also helps against all of the Aether Vial decks that the control and tempo decks have problems with.
Vendilion Clique This is, in my opinion, the best creature in the format. Sorry Goyf. Sorry Mystic, this guy just does it all, which is why most lists play 4 even though it's Legendary. It's just that good, and I have personally won more games on the back of this guy than Goyf or Progenitus.
Lightning Bolt The removal of choice. This hits SFM, Bob, Merfolk, Goblins, other NO targets, and players (which I've won with before). Simply so versatile for 1 mana.
Natural Order The reason the deck has it's name. This fetches the "Protection from Everything" that everyone fears.
Progenitus Do I even need to write a description about him........................
Green Sun's Zenith This card showed up a lot in Bant decks when it first came out, and then proceeded to drop in play as time went on, because Bant was using it wrong. They used a toolbox with this card, trying to cram as many answers into their deck as they could. NO RUG, however, uses it a bit differently. Need a creature to sac to NO? Done. Need a threat? Done. Need to get past Mental Misstep for Hierarch? Done. Need to get past Spell Snare for Goyf? Done. Need another Goyf to win the war? Done. Need to ramp? Done. The card is so good.
Dryad Arbor The most common creature sacrificed to NO, simply because an EOT Fetchland can tutor him out (which is the reason the mana base is how it is) and then he can tap himself to pay for NO.
Grim Lavamancer When the deck was first conceived, he was a SB card. He has, however, become so important that he's even squeaked into the MD. Wins Goyf wars, kills Merfolk, and just does a number of things to creature matchups.
Sideboard Choices:
Relic of Progenitus Played against mainly Dredge, but can be brought in against decks running Terravore and Knight.
Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast A great answer to things like High Tide, Merfolk, Hivemind, Painter Servant, etc. It's good against Blue decks.
Ancient Grudge With the format shidt, Counterbalance has seen a drop off, and there is little incentive to play Krosan Grip over this, as Enchantments are not really a huge problem right now.
Krosan Grip With that said, this is still a great overall answer to Artifacts and Enchantments. Meta dependent.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor A good card against decks like Lands or Landstill, as if it lands, they are going to have a very hard time beating it. And let's face it, who wants to battle through Glacial Chasm/Crucible of Worlds with creatures.
Grim Lavamancer Just read above. Generally more copies are placed in the SB because of decks like Zoo, as he'll be hard pressed to survive for very along against the type of deck.
Umezawa's Jitte Wins creature battles. Period. Does great against decks like Zoo and Junk.
Llawan, Cephalid Empress Great against Merfolk, and can help against other decks playing NO Proggy.
Terastadon A great second target for NO, as it blows up pretty much everything in it's way. Played against decks like Stax and prison strategies.
Spell Pierce Just another card to use against combo deck.
Again, these are just the SB options I myself have tried. I'm sure there are other options out there.
Boarding out Forces seems really, really, really, really bad against Dredge. Especially when you're on the draw.
I've found Mental Misstep and Daze to be enough disruption matched with everything else, so I like to keep as many relevant cards in my hand as possible.
why do you board in Lavamancer against Team America? I think there is not that much benefits, it can't kill any creatures and isn't green.
It helps win Goyf wars, gets rid of Confidant, and can take down Tombstalker with the help of Lightning Bolt in a pinch.
Against them I really don't want all 4 Natural Orders, as they will be hard to resolve. And I don't all 4 Blue hosers, as none of their threats beside Jace are actually Blue, just their countermagic. Grim Lavamancer was one of the better cards to bring in, as I wouldn't want Jace against TA, just against Deedstill, and I didn't feel Jitte would do all that much against them.
What is the main advantage of running red over white in this deck? I'm still not understanding otherr then dishing out the last 3dmg to kill an opponent, why you would want lightning bolt over stp?
What is the main advantage of running red over white in this deck? I'm still not understanding otherr then dishing out the last 3dmg to kill an opponent, why you would want lightning bolt over stp?
Red is mainly used simpley because it disrupts more of the format better, namely Blue.
Look at the SB's of the deck lists above. White does not give you those kind of answers to Merfolk, or Hive Mind, or SFM.dec.
MD, ya, I would like to run Swords, but SB, I would prefer the options I have in Red.
Yeah, the red and white versions are almost identical in the main deck. Both lists are so refined now that often the only difference is 4 Swords to Plowshares vs. 4 Lightning Bolts. The pros and cons of these decisions are pretty obvious, as Sword is better creature removal but Bolt doubles as 3 damage to the face.
The main difference is what you get in the sideboard, and that is everything. Right now red seems to be better, because REB is more important right now than having access to Gaddock Teeg, Rhox War Monk or Path to Exile. Not that you can't also run Teeg in RUG, in fact I would recommend having one in the sideboard. But you'll be less reliably able to cast it.
Dyne, nice work on the thread. It might be worth saying something about the evolution of the deck, if anyone cares about that sort of thing. As far as I know it started with SCG ringers. AJ Sacher and Drew Levin were brewing NO/Show, which was essentially the Bant version of this deck with a Show and Tell plan added and no Goyfs. Drew moved on from the deck but AJ stuck with it and turned it into NO Bant, which at first ran a bunch of jank like Scryb Ranger, Rhox War Monk, Fauna Shaman and Terravore as 1-ofs. Then Todd Anderson picked up on the deck and both had some success with it, but later Reid Duke switched out the white for red, running 4 Bolts and 2 Chain Lightnings (Mental Misstep wasn't out yet) and took 6th place somewhere. AJ moved on, but Anderson switched to that build and both have been developing it ever since, along with other people I'm sure.
Anyway, I'm upset that this is the new form of the deck because I had all of the Bant duals and now have to pick up new ones (aside from Tropical Island), but it does seem that right now RUG is just better positioned to fight the meta.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Yeah, the red and white versions are almost identical in the main deck. Both lists are so refined now that often the only difference is 4 Swords to Plowshares vs. 4 Lightning Bolts. The pros and cons of these decisions are pretty obvious, as Sword is better creature removal but Bolt doubles as 3 damage to the face.
The main difference is what you get in the sideboard, and that is everything. Right now red seems to be better, because REB is more important right now than having access to Gaddock Teeg, Rhox War Monk or Path to Exile. Not that you can't also run Teeg in RUG, in fact I would recommend having one in the sideboard. But you'll be less reliably able to cast it.
Dyne, nice work on the thread. It might be worth saying something about the evolution of the deck, if anyone cares about that sort of thing. As far as I know it started with SCG ringers. AJ Sacher and Drew Levin were brewing NO/Show, which was essentially the Bant version of this deck with a Show and Tell plan added and no Goyfs. Drew moved on from the deck but AJ stuck with it and turned it into NO Bant, which at first ran a bunch of jank like Scryb Ranger, Rhox War Monk, Fauna Shaman and Terravore as 1-ofs. Then Todd Anderson picked up on the deck and both had some success with it, but later Reid Duke switched out the white for red, running 4 Bolts and 2 Chain Lightnings (Mental Misstep wasn't out yet) and took 6th place somewhere. AJ moved on, but Anderson switched to that build and both have been developing it ever since, along with other people I'm sure.
Anyway, I'm upset that this is the new form of the deck because I had all of the Bant duals and now have to pick up new ones (aside from Tropical Island), but it does seem that right now RUG is just better positioned to fight the meta.
Haha, ya, I played the 1-of version with Scryb Ranger and Fauna Shaman :$.
The Red build is MILES better than Bant. It focuses solely on 2 game plans, and works extremely well towards both of them.
Either kill with Goyf & Clique, or kill with Progenitus.
Also, I'm not sure if a lot of people are interested in how the deck came to be (again, I've been following it since it was Bant) as they may be more results oriented, but your description is pretty spot on about it. However I may exerpt your quote and add it to the primer
Another reason why I like this deck is it's resilient to hate. A lot of people side in things like Hibernation or Perish, which deals with Goyf and Progenitus, but completely forget about Vendilion Clique. I've seriously won more games on the back of Clique beats than anything else.
I really like this deck. It's got so many ways to get you. I've been testing it with proxies and been loving it, it's just too bad it's out of my price range...
AJ made 12th with that build, which was at the DC Starcity tournament in February of this year, almost two months after the banning of Survival IIRC. He then brought pretty much the same deck to the next Starcity tournament in NJ and placed 10th (this was the one where Hatfield brought High Tide back and won the whole thing). Then in the SCG after that, in Memphis, he took this list to second place, losing to Bertoncini's Merfolk: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37133
That article came from the next SCG event in TX where AJ placed 10th with NO Bant. He explains a few tweaks he made from the Memphis version, but nothing ground breaking. And he added a Scryb Ranger. Ugh. But this is probably where the deck began to take off. Two tournaments later in Atlanta, Todd Anderson picked the deck up and took it to a Top 8, piloting this: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37570
This is the deck we all now know and love. Really, the only big change since then was the addition of Mental Misstep, which was greatly assisted by, well, the printing of Mental Misstep. Carsten Kotter did a great job after that event describing just why NO RUG was the most exciting deck to come out of Boston and why it's a contender: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21739_The_Adapting_Metagame_Sweet_Sixteen.html
Since then the deck has taken off, even without a ton of proponents, placing 4th in Charlotte, 5th in Louisville, 1st(!) at the Indy open and 4th at the Invitational, 8th in Denver, and 3rd at freaking GP Providence, taking Reid Duke undefeated in the swiss along the way. To conclude this brief history of the deck, some required reading: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21996_GP_Providence_Report_3rd_With_Natural_Order_RUG.html
Well that turned out to be longer than I expected. But if you want to include it in a spoiler in the OP, feel free. It's unimportant stuff in the abstract, but seeing the evolution of the deck can be helpful to deckbuilders and also help us keep track of what the deck is all about, what is necessary and what's peripheral.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I've been looking at this thing, and I really like it. What matches does it have trouble with? It seems like Zoo is probably bad news.
I'd actually reckon to say it depends heavily on the draws. If you can resolve a fast NO, Zoo almost always loses. If you cannot remove all of their guys in a timely fashion, you will get overwhelmed. I can't imagine this deck has much worse than a 50-50 against any deck (similar to Junk) but it can win normally very difficult match ups thanks to NO.
My point was that Junk is known for having very few bad match ups but also not an enormous number of incredible ones, as opposed to a deck like Burn, which has a lot of really good match ups and a lot of really bad match ups and very few in between.
I think a lot of the seemingly "bad" matchups end up being 50/50-ish because of the power of Natural Order backed by countermagic. My least favorite matchups are Merfolk and Team America, since they can prevent your NO and will probably kill you quickly if you don't resolve it. Aggro Bant can be the same way.
Control is a great matchup because, while you can't resolve NO generally, you also don't need to. This is different than CounterTop, though, where your victories will often come on the back of a Progenitus. But if the control deck is playing fair, as they all now seem to do, just Goyf, Clique and Burn them out aggressively.
Aggro can be a little rough, but since you don't have to worry about protecting your NO with counters, you can counter removal, cast NO freely on turn 3 and win on its back.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
what do you guys think about moving JTMS into the MB over ponder?
In your opinion, which match-ups would that improve? I have found Jace to be a great trump card against control decks, or decks that generally don't apply enough pressure. He's pretty bad against more aggressive decks, though, and those are the ones I typically struggle with. When you're getting hit with wasteland/removal on your dorks then you probably don't want to see more cards with CMC4.
In your opinion, which match-ups would that improve? I have found Jace to be a great trump card against control decks, or decks that generally don't apply enough pressure. He's pretty bad against more aggressive decks, though, and those are the ones I typically struggle with. When you're getting hit with wasteland/removal on your dorks then you probably don't want to see more cards with CMC4.
i was sideing ponder out for those decks anyways cause i wanted to cram as much removal as i could
everydeck but zoo or burn i side jace in
with the mana ramp in this deck you can constantly have t3 jace
and with him MB now that gave me room to add submerge to help with
zoo/jank/team
Maverick is causing a lot of trouble. KotR with Zenith and a lot of other pesky stuff like Aven Mindscensor is hard to come by. It's all fine as long as KotR doesn't hit the table so i have been toying around with 4 Submerge in the board and Mind Harness for testing but i'm still not really sold on the matchup. Big Zoo is popular as well, playing with KotR.
Any suggestions? Is Jitte enough from your experience?
Submerge is definetly a possible card to add into the SB, I'll be toying around with that card in the near future.
As for JtMS MD, that's a no no. I side him in against the more controlling match-ups. If your siding him in against stuff like Merfolk and Maverick, your SBing wrong. The meta is mostly aggro right now, with Merfolk, Zoo, Maverick and Affinity showing up everywhere. I would want him against Landstill and lands, and maybe side him in over something else against StoneBlade, but that depends on the build.
Thanks to Zirath for the awesome banner!
Natural Order Red/Blue/Green (NO RUG)
History.
It started with SCG ringers. AJ Sacher and Drew Levin were brewing NO/Show, which was essentially the Bant version of this deck with a Show and Tell plan added and no Goyfs. Drew moved on from the deck but AJ stuck with it and turned it into NO Bant, which at first ran a bunch of jank like Scryb Ranger, Rhox War Monk, Fauna Shaman and Terravore as 1-ofs. Then Todd Anderson picked up on the deck and both had some success with it, but later Reid Duke switched out the white for red, running 4 Bolts and 2 Chain Lightnings (Mental Misstep wasn't out yet). AJ moved on, but Anderson switched to that build and both have been developing it ever since.
Evolution.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...AJ_Sacher.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...AJ_Sacher.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Order_RUG.html
Why play NO RUG?
This deck has had a breakout performance in the current metagame, and is simply one of the most powerful strategies you can play, NO and Progenitus, packed with the best disruption the game has to offer, which is Mental Misstep and Force of Will. It took it's roots from NO Bant, and changed it's removal suite from White to Red. In doing so, it gave up ways to deal with larger creatures and played a more tempo oriented game, all culminating in a Natural Order into Progenitus. It also changed it creature base to be more disruptive in the form of Vendilion Clique instead of Knight of the Reliquary.
The Core.
All NO decks will play with a core set of cards to make sure Natural Order can go off without a hitch. However RUG and Bant NO decks play a much different core than Elves, so I will be focusing on that. They need to play Progenitus, Dryad Arbor and Natural Order. Planting us in Green means we have access to Tarmogoyf. It also gives us access to Noble Hierarch, which not only ramps into NO, but helps win Goyf wars when on the attack. A Blue counter suite is also core in these decks, and numbers are based off personal play style, which I will go over later. Lastly is Lightning Bolt, which is the removal of choice for this deck simply because it can deal with most of the threats being played in the current metagame.
Card choices.
As previously mentioned, let me start with the core.
Tarmogoyf
This guy can win you games even without NO. Add in Green Sun's Zenith, and you effectively play 7-8 Goyfs MD, which not many other decks can match.
Noble Hierarch
Better than Birds of Paradise by far, this guy can ramp, pump, be sacrificed to NO, negate land disruption and be tutored for with Zenith. He just fits all facets of this deck that a 1 drop, and is a terrific tempo play.
Brainstorm
This is the best card in Legacy, and people who don't that, haven't played with it enough. This is a staple in any Blue deck that isn't mono.
Ponder
While not quite good as Brainstorm, it helps dig for answers, for threats, and pumps up Goyf. The only thing more you could ask for for 1 mana was 2 more Brainstorms.
Force of Will
This helps against combo. Plain and simple. There are quite a few decks which this actually gets sided out against, but the threat of having it means you can NOwith only 4 mana and counter back up to just straight up win on the back of Progenitus.
Daze
This counterspell is the perfect compliment to Noble Hierarch. Being able to lead with Hierarch and than Daze a turn 1 or 2 play is just simply so good. A lot of Blue decks have started to cut this because they can't shake off the tempo disadvantage, but not in this deck, which makes it a perfect weapon in our arsenal for a quick NO.
Mental Misstep
The new boogeyman in Legacy, but it's our boogeyman. This card has invalidated a lot of the combo matchups that used to see rampant play. It also helps against all of the Aether Vial decks that the control and tempo decks have problems with.
Vendilion Clique
This is, in my opinion, the best creature in the format. Sorry Goyf. Sorry Mystic, this guy just does it all, which is why most lists play 4 even though it's Legendary. It's just that good, and I have personally won more games on the back of this guy than Goyf or Progenitus.
Lightning Bolt
The removal of choice. This hits SFM, Bob, Merfolk, Goblins, other NO targets, and players (which I've won with before). Simply so versatile for 1 mana.
Natural Order
The reason the deck has it's name. This fetches the "Protection from Everything" that everyone fears.
Progenitus
Do I even need to write a description about him........................
Green Sun's Zenith
This card showed up a lot in Bant decks when it first came out, and then proceeded to drop in play as time went on, because Bant was using it wrong. They used a toolbox with this card, trying to cram as many answers into their deck as they could. NO RUG, however, uses it a bit differently.
Need a creature to sac to NO? Done.
Need a threat? Done.
Need to get past Mental Misstep for Hierarch? Done.
Need to get past Spell Snare for Goyf? Done.
Need another Goyf to win the war? Done.
Need to ramp? Done.
The card is so good.
Dryad Arbor
The most common creature sacrificed to NO, simply because an EOT Fetchland can tutor him out (which is the reason the mana base is how it is) and then he can tap himself to pay for NO.
Grim Lavamancer
When the deck was first conceived, he was a SB card. He has, however, become so important that he's even squeaked into the MD. Wins Goyf wars, kills Merfolk, and just does a number of things to creature matchups.
Sideboard Choices:
Relic of Progenitus
Played against mainly Dredge, but can be brought in against decks running Terravore and Knight.
Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast
A great answer to things like High Tide, Merfolk, Hivemind, Painter Servant, etc. It's good against Blue decks.
Ancient Grudge
With the format shidt, Counterbalance has seen a drop off, and there is little incentive to play Krosan Grip over this, as Enchantments are not really a huge problem right now.
Krosan Grip
With that said, this is still a great overall answer to Artifacts and Enchantments. Meta dependent.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
A good card against decks like Lands or Landstill, as if it lands, they are going to have a very hard time beating it. And let's face it, who wants to battle through Glacial Chasm/Crucible of Worlds with creatures.
Grim Lavamancer
Just read above. Generally more copies are placed in the SB because of decks like Zoo, as he'll be hard pressed to survive for very along against the type of deck.
Umezawa's Jitte
Wins creature battles. Period. Does great against decks like Zoo and Junk.
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Great against Merfolk, and can help against other decks playing NO Proggy.
Terastadon
A great second target for NO, as it blows up pretty much everything in it's way. Played against decks like Stax and prison strategies.
Spell Pierce
Just another card to use against combo deck.
Again, these are just the SB options I myself have tried. I'm sure there are other options out there.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Here are some winning deck lists;
NO RUG by Reid Duke
4 Noble Hiearch
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus
4 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mental Misstep
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Ponder
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbod
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mountain
NO RUG by Ron Natividad
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mental Misstep
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Chain Lightning
1 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
1 Sylvan Library
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbod
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Pyroblast
1 Mental Misstep
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Terastadon
1 Tormod's Crypt
NO RUG by Chris Miller
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mental Misstep
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Ponder
2 Chain Lightning
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbod
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Terastadon
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Now, this will all be based off the current list I'm using, which just happens to by Reid Duke's list.
Merfolk:
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+2 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Mountain
-4 Force of Will
-1 Natural Order
-1 Island
-1 Ponder
Team America:
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Grim Lavamancer
-3 Mental Misstep
-1 Natural Order
Dredge:
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Grim Lavamancer
-4 Force of Will
Zoo:
+2 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Ponder
-1 Green Sun's Zenith
SFM.dec
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Pyroblast
-1 Natural Order
-3 Mental Misstep
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Boarding out Forces seems really, really, really, really bad against Dredge. Especially when you're on the draw.
I've found Mental Misstep and Daze to be enough disruption matched with everything else, so I like to keep as many relevant cards in my hand as possible.
It helps win Goyf wars, gets rid of Confidant, and can take down Tombstalker with the help of Lightning Bolt in a pinch.
Against them I really don't want all 4 Natural Orders, as they will be hard to resolve. And I don't all 4 Blue hosers, as none of their threats beside Jace are actually Blue, just their countermagic. Grim Lavamancer was one of the better cards to bring in, as I wouldn't want Jace against TA, just against Deedstill, and I didn't feel Jitte would do all that much against them.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Red is mainly used simpley because it disrupts more of the format better, namely Blue.
Look at the SB's of the deck lists above. White does not give you those kind of answers to Merfolk, or Hive Mind, or SFM.dec.
MD, ya, I would like to run Swords, but SB, I would prefer the options I have in Red.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
The main difference is what you get in the sideboard, and that is everything. Right now red seems to be better, because REB is more important right now than having access to Gaddock Teeg, Rhox War Monk or Path to Exile. Not that you can't also run Teeg in RUG, in fact I would recommend having one in the sideboard. But you'll be less reliably able to cast it.
Dyne, nice work on the thread. It might be worth saying something about the evolution of the deck, if anyone cares about that sort of thing. As far as I know it started with SCG ringers. AJ Sacher and Drew Levin were brewing NO/Show, which was essentially the Bant version of this deck with a Show and Tell plan added and no Goyfs. Drew moved on from the deck but AJ stuck with it and turned it into NO Bant, which at first ran a bunch of jank like Scryb Ranger, Rhox War Monk, Fauna Shaman and Terravore as 1-ofs. Then Todd Anderson picked up on the deck and both had some success with it, but later Reid Duke switched out the white for red, running 4 Bolts and 2 Chain Lightnings (Mental Misstep wasn't out yet) and took 6th place somewhere. AJ moved on, but Anderson switched to that build and both have been developing it ever since, along with other people I'm sure.
Anyway, I'm upset that this is the new form of the deck because I had all of the Bant duals and now have to pick up new ones (aside from Tropical Island), but it does seem that right now RUG is just better positioned to fight the meta.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Haha, ya, I played the 1-of version with Scryb Ranger and Fauna Shaman :$.
The Red build is MILES better than Bant. It focuses solely on 2 game plans, and works extremely well towards both of them.
Either kill with Goyf & Clique, or kill with Progenitus.
Also, I'm not sure if a lot of people are interested in how the deck came to be (again, I've been following it since it was Bant) as they may be more results oriented, but your description is pretty spot on about it. However I may exerpt your quote and add it to the primer
Another reason why I like this deck is it's resilient to hate. A lot of people side in things like Hibernation or Perish, which deals with Goyf and Progenitus, but completely forget about Vendilion Clique. I've seriously won more games on the back of Clique beats than anything else.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
AJ made 12th with that build, which was at the DC Starcity tournament in February of this year, almost two months after the banning of Survival IIRC. He then brought pretty much the same deck to the next Starcity tournament in NJ and placed 10th (this was the one where Hatfield brought High Tide back and won the whole thing). Then in the SCG after that, in Memphis, he took this list to second place, losing to Bertoncini's Merfolk: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37133
That was the next big evolution for the deck, removing the Show and Tell part and adding Goyfs and a GSZ toolbox. He explains the deck here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21425_Deck_Tech_NO_Bant_with_AJ_Sacher.html
That article came from the next SCG event in TX where AJ placed 10th with NO Bant. He explains a few tweaks he made from the Memphis version, but nothing ground breaking. And he added a Scryb Ranger. Ugh. But this is probably where the deck began to take off. Two tournaments later in Atlanta, Todd Anderson picked the deck up and took it to a Top 8, piloting this: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37570
The tournament after that, we have Boston, where someone (Reid Duke) finally put together ~drumroll please~ NO RUG! http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38060
This is the deck we all now know and love. Really, the only big change since then was the addition of Mental Misstep, which was greatly assisted by, well, the printing of Mental Misstep. Carsten Kotter did a great job after that event describing just why NO RUG was the most exciting deck to come out of Boston and why it's a contender: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21739_The_Adapting_Metagame_Sweet_Sixteen.html
Since then the deck has taken off, even without a ton of proponents, placing 4th in Charlotte, 5th in Louisville, 1st(!) at the Indy open and 4th at the Invitational, 8th in Denver, and 3rd at freaking GP Providence, taking Reid Duke undefeated in the swiss along the way. To conclude this brief history of the deck, some required reading: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21996_GP_Providence_Report_3rd_With_Natural_Order_RUG.html
Well that turned out to be longer than I expected. But if you want to include it in a spoiler in the OP, feel free. It's unimportant stuff in the abstract, but seeing the evolution of the deck can be helpful to deckbuilders and also help us keep track of what the deck is all about, what is necessary and what's peripheral.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I'd actually reckon to say it depends heavily on the draws. If you can resolve a fast NO, Zoo almost always loses. If you cannot remove all of their guys in a timely fashion, you will get overwhelmed. I can't imagine this deck has much worse than a 50-50 against any deck (similar to Junk) but it can win normally very difficult match ups thanks to NO.
My point was that Junk is known for having very few bad match ups but also not an enormous number of incredible ones, as opposed to a deck like Burn, which has a lot of really good match ups and a lot of really bad match ups and very few in between.
So if Zoo gets a hand with a few Knights, you could be in trouble.
However, I've found Vendilion Clique to be fantastic in this match-up, as she takes away answers and attackers.
Also we play more Goyfs than they do
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Control is a great matchup because, while you can't resolve NO generally, you also don't need to. This is different than CounterTop, though, where your victories will often come on the back of a Progenitus. But if the control deck is playing fair, as they all now seem to do, just Goyf, Clique and Burn them out aggressively.
Aggro can be a little rough, but since you don't have to worry about protecting your NO with counters, you can counter removal, cast NO freely on turn 3 and win on its back.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Merfolk I've actually had really good game against, especially after SB. I don't think I've lost a match to Merfolk while playing my most recent list.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39287
Pretty standard build, although the SB was running Trygon Predator.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
In your opinion, which match-ups would that improve? I have found Jace to be a great trump card against control decks, or decks that generally don't apply enough pressure. He's pretty bad against more aggressive decks, though, and those are the ones I typically struggle with. When you're getting hit with wasteland/removal on your dorks then you probably don't want to see more cards with CMC4.
i was sideing ponder out for those decks anyways cause i wanted to cram as much removal as i could
everydeck but zoo or burn i side jace in
with the mana ramp in this deck you can constantly have t3 jace
and with him MB now that gave me room to add submerge to help with
zoo/jank/team
Submerge is definetly a possible card to add into the SB, I'll be toying around with that card in the near future.
As for JtMS MD, that's a no no. I side him in against the more controlling match-ups. If your siding him in against stuff like Merfolk and Maverick, your SBing wrong. The meta is mostly aggro right now, with Merfolk, Zoo, Maverick and Affinity showing up everywhere. I would want him against Landstill and lands, and maybe side him in over something else against StoneBlade, but that depends on the build.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer