So a while back I created a ramp/aggro deck based around the Eldrazi and posted it to a forum before tweaking it a bit, now I would like to dust it off and see if it could further be improved. Also any general deck building advice would be greatly appreciated.
Could I ask you to explain the strategy of the deck, and how serious you want it to be? In addition, if serious, how does it deal with well-established decks?
1) How Serious - Do you play at the kitchen table, at local tournaments, or do you travel for large competitive events such as SCG Opens or TCGPlayer Invitationals?
2) How to Deal with Established Decks - This question presupposes that you play at a level beyond the kitchen table. In competitive Magic, there are powerful well-established deck archetypes which have been developed by groups of people over time and are make regular appearances at the top tables of large competitive events. For Legacy format this includes Stoneblade variants, Storm, Infect, Shardless Sultai, Colorless Eldrazi (more on that in a moment)and other such high-powered decks.
I'm operating under the assumption you do not play large competitive events. If you do, you'll want to do a Starcitygames.com decklist database search for Legacy decks including Eye of Ugin. That will give you an idea of the big mana strategies currently favored in Legacy. As a first step, I'd point out how bad Tron is in Legacy. You are attempting to assemble 3 distinct lands in a format that is utterly dominated by Wasteland, and your plan to beat Wasteland appears to be "pray it doesn't show up, or that I drew Pithing Needle and resolved it and kept it in play", both of which are risky. A similarly fragile big mana deck (12-Post) runs 4 Pithing Needles in the main just to try and stop Wasteland. Unfortunately, the ubiquity of Abrupt Decay makes that play less viable than it used to be. Most big mana Eldrazi decks choose to either run 4x Ancient Tomb alongside 4x Eldrazi Temple and multiple Eye of Ugin and City of Traitors to virtually guarantee that their mana production goes 2 to 4 to 6 colorless available turns 1-3. This powers out threats like Thought-Knot Seer on turn 2. This is in addition to disruption, usually provided by a play of turn 1 Ancient Tomb to cast Chalice of the Void on 1, which is a frequently back-breaking play in Legacy. Other disruption typically includes Trinisphere or Thorn of Amethyst.
To be quite blunt, cards like Hedron Matrix and Eldrazi Conscription are not playable at the competitive level. They do not immediately impact the game state, but rather require you to already have a creature in play, and they cost insane amounts of mana. I understand you expect to have lots of mana available, but bear in mind that the nature of competitive Magic is disruption. Your opponent will likely lead with something like turn 1 Island into Delver of Secrets (threatening Daze) or hold it up threatening Spell Pierce and/or Daze for your turn 1 play. Turn 2 they follow with Wasteland, keeping you clipped to 1 land effectively. These aren't random ideas either, the top levels of Legacy play frequently involve early turns with this much disruption. Jund can easily hit you with turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Hymn to Tourach, turn 3 Liliana of the Veil (so can Pox).
Starcitygames.com (amongst other sites such as TCGplayer.com and Channelfireball.com) can give you an idea what the top decks are in a format. There was just a Legacy event a week and a half ago in Baltimore where Colorless Eldrazi did well. Here's that decklist, which took 16th place:
And here's the top performing Legacy lists from that event:
Hope that this was somewhat helpful and gives you an idea how pro-level players construct colorless decks for Legacy play.
EDIT: It has been a while since a big-mana deck put up really good results. Most Eldrazi are playing the mid-range stuff like Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher. You will likely need to find an older list as a starting point, either a 12-Post list or a MUD list or something, as the sol-land big mana decks seem to keep their curve lower than the Eldrazi Titans.
So is this deck completely inviable due to the high mana cost or is there some fat that can be trimmed/replaced (besides Hedron Matrix and Eldrazi Conscription) to make it work a little better? Also is there a way to make at least one of the Eldrazi Titans work?
At the very least, there are two answers (there can be more):
1) If you are trying to play at highly competitive events, this deck needs a complete overhaul and will be much different in composition than it is now.
2) If you are not trying to play at highly competitive events, this deck can play locally with some small tweaks and at the kitchen table with none.
That said, if you are dedicated to the following elements:
Big Eldrazi titans (the OG 3, it appears) being hardcast instead of cheated into play
Big Mana
Colorless Mana only
Legacy format
and you want to develop this for a reasonable level of competitive play (you won't crush an SCG Open, but you also won't be totally embarassed by the deck), then there are some changes you can make without sacrificing your core vision.
First, your land base:
12 Tron lands - Out
8 Post package - I'll leave in, but it's weak in my opinion.
In -
+3 Eldrazi Temple - For what you want to do, this card is nuts. 2 Colorless mana, drawback free.
+2 Eye of Ugin - Yes, it's Legendary, but you really want one and Expedition Map is slow. Go up to 3 and never look back.
+4 Ancient Tomb - It will impact your life total, but it will power out Eldrazi.
+4 Vesuva - This is the other 4 in the typical 12-Post package. In a pinch, they also become Eldrazi Temples. A solid card.
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Disgustingly good with Eye of Ugin, and allows you to tap Ancient Tomb for B if you only need one mana but really need to not spend 2 life.
New land count: 24 (12 post, 4 E Temple, 4 A Tomb, 3 Eye, 1 Urborg)
Now play 4 of each of the 1 mana artifacts. You need Pithing Needle on Wasteland in basically every game, you can stack Amulet of Vigor triggers to get tons of mana (put each trigger on the stack and in response to each tap the lands for mana again), and Expedition Map is always good for colorless land search.
You probably want 2 copies of All Is Dust. I would be shocked if you really want the 3rd.
Consider playing a few Warping Wail, it's quite versatile and good.
Cut most of your Eldrazi, and try to fit in:
4 Thought-Knot Seer - He's a big body with a good disruptive effect you can power out early.
3-4 Kozilek's Channeler - This is an Eldrazi that's immune to Lightning Bolt, comes down early, and pushes you towards your big mana goals.
some number of Conduit of Ruin and/or Oblivion Sower. Eldrazi Temple + Eye of Ugin + Ancient Tomb should make it easy to power these guys out while you build up 12-Post, and they help advance you to your endgame.
Also, as much as you love Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, I would say that Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is a huge improvement for a deck's ability to stabilize, and would include one.
So your deck would look something like this after these tweaks:
I slotted in Reality Smasher for greater board presence early in the game here as well, then realized you have no way to pull out of a top-deck scenario so I added a Sea Gate Wreckage you can search up with Expedition Map.
A big part of competitive play is knowing what you are playing against. Pithing Needle is better if you know to name cards like Wasteland, JTMS, LoTV, etc. Warping Wail is better if you know what creatures if hits and what sorceries matter.
Again, it depends: How competitive do you expect the deck to be? This is not a rhetorical question, we do need an answer! Without the answer, we cannot help you...
Sorry about that, it slipped my mind, I was thinking maybe local tournament level?
I would say the answer is debatably yes, and here's why:
1) You're actually casting these big fatties, not just cheating them into play. The casting triggers on each Eldrazi is pretty back-breaking, but here's a raw comparison
Ulamog 1.0 = Destroy 1 Permanent
Ulamog 2.0 = Exile 2 Permanents
Kozilek 1.0 = Draw 4 Cards
Kozilek 2.0 = Draw between 0 and 7 cards, but guarantees with Kozilek 2.0 on the stack you have a 7-card hand
Emrakul 1.0 = Time Walk + Annihilator
Emrakul 2.0 = Mindslaver + Trample
In my mind, you should basically always upgrade Ulamog to The Ceaseless Hunger, unless Annihilator is that important to you. Kozilek is your choice, but I personally think 2.0 is the best option. In a deck that's playing a 10-drop, you probably were down to 1-3 cards in hand when you cast him, making him draw you 4+ cards. And he protects himself (via countermagic) and has evasion (via Menace), whereas 1.0 just has evasion (via Annihilator). Emrakul is the toughest choice. Emrakul 1.0 basically wins the game on the spot, but even for a big mana deck it takes a bit to get to 15 mana. Conversely, Emrakul 2.0 is more likely to get cast for 10-12 mana due to the diversity of cards in your deck and the interactivity of Legacy. That means that even though she's arguably weaker, you're more likely to get your Mindslaver. And once she resolves, protection from Instants is quite strong in Legacy. As is flying and trample. I think you should try piloting the deck and see how games play out. Nothing works better than solid playtesting data.
Emrakul is the toughest choice. Emrakul 1.0 basically wins the game on the spot, but even for a big mana deck it takes a bit to get to 15 mana. Conversely, Emrakul 2.0 is more likely to get cast for 10-12 mana due to the diversity of cards in your deck and the interactivity of Legacy. That means that even though she's arguably weaker, you're more likely to get your Mindslaver. And once she resolves, protection from Instants is quite strong in Legacy. As is flying and trample. I think you should try piloting the deck and see how games play out. Nothing works better than solid playtesting data.
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Hand of Emrakul
1 It That Betrays
1 Memnite
2 Ornithopter
2 Pathrazer of Ulamog
2 Spawnsire of Ulamog
2 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Amulet of Vigor
2 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Eldrazi Monument
2 Hedron Matrix
3 Pithing Needle
3 Quicksilver Amulet
2 Unwinding Clock
2 Expedition Map
Miscellaneous
1 Eldrazi Conscription
2 Skittering Invasion
1 All Is Dust
2 Not of This World
1 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Note that I actually haven't played this deck but I am still interested in making it work.
The basic strategy is to get the creatures out, especially Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, as fast as possible and keeping them out while buffing them with cards like Hedron Matrix and Eldrazi Conscription and beating down the opponent with Annihilator. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "how serious" and I'm not sure what well-established decks are out there.
1) How Serious - Do you play at the kitchen table, at local tournaments, or do you travel for large competitive events such as SCG Opens or TCGPlayer Invitationals?
2) How to Deal with Established Decks - This question presupposes that you play at a level beyond the kitchen table. In competitive Magic, there are powerful well-established deck archetypes which have been developed by groups of people over time and are make regular appearances at the top tables of large competitive events. For Legacy format this includes Stoneblade variants, Storm, Infect, Shardless Sultai, Colorless Eldrazi (more on that in a moment)and other such high-powered decks.
I'm operating under the assumption you do not play large competitive events. If you do, you'll want to do a Starcitygames.com decklist database search for Legacy decks including Eye of Ugin. That will give you an idea of the big mana strategies currently favored in Legacy. As a first step, I'd point out how bad Tron is in Legacy. You are attempting to assemble 3 distinct lands in a format that is utterly dominated by Wasteland, and your plan to beat Wasteland appears to be "pray it doesn't show up, or that I drew Pithing Needle and resolved it and kept it in play", both of which are risky. A similarly fragile big mana deck (12-Post) runs 4 Pithing Needles in the main just to try and stop Wasteland. Unfortunately, the ubiquity of Abrupt Decay makes that play less viable than it used to be. Most big mana Eldrazi decks choose to either run 4x Ancient Tomb alongside 4x Eldrazi Temple and multiple Eye of Ugin and City of Traitors to virtually guarantee that their mana production goes 2 to 4 to 6 colorless available turns 1-3. This powers out threats like Thought-Knot Seer on turn 2. This is in addition to disruption, usually provided by a play of turn 1 Ancient Tomb to cast Chalice of the Void on 1, which is a frequently back-breaking play in Legacy. Other disruption typically includes Trinisphere or Thorn of Amethyst.
To be quite blunt, cards like Hedron Matrix and Eldrazi Conscription are not playable at the competitive level. They do not immediately impact the game state, but rather require you to already have a creature in play, and they cost insane amounts of mana. I understand you expect to have lots of mana available, but bear in mind that the nature of competitive Magic is disruption. Your opponent will likely lead with something like turn 1 Island into Delver of Secrets (threatening Daze) or hold it up threatening Spell Pierce and/or Daze for your turn 1 play. Turn 2 they follow with Wasteland, keeping you clipped to 1 land effectively. These aren't random ideas either, the top levels of Legacy play frequently involve early turns with this much disruption. Jund can easily hit you with turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Hymn to Tourach, turn 3 Liliana of the Veil (so can Pox).
Starcitygames.com (amongst other sites such as TCGplayer.com and Channelfireball.com) can give you an idea what the top decks are in a format. There was just a Legacy event a week and a half ago in Baltimore where Colorless Eldrazi did well. Here's that decklist, which took 16th place:
And here's the top performing Legacy lists from that event:
=3&start_date=2016-07-30&end_date=2016-07-31&city=&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks]
Hope that this was somewhat helpful and gives you an idea how pro-level players construct colorless decks for Legacy play.
EDIT: It has been a while since a big-mana deck put up really good results. Most Eldrazi are playing the mid-range stuff like Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher. You will likely need to find an older list as a starting point, either a 12-Post list or a MUD list or something, as the sol-land big mana decks seem to keep their curve lower than the Eldrazi Titans.
1) If you are trying to play at highly competitive events, this deck needs a complete overhaul and will be much different in composition than it is now.
2) If you are not trying to play at highly competitive events, this deck can play locally with some small tweaks and at the kitchen table with none.
That said, if you are dedicated to the following elements:
Big Eldrazi titans (the OG 3, it appears) being hardcast instead of cheated into play
Big Mana
Colorless Mana only
Legacy format
and you want to develop this for a reasonable level of competitive play (you won't crush an SCG Open, but you also won't be totally embarassed by the deck), then there are some changes you can make without sacrificing your core vision.
First, your land base:
12 Tron lands - Out
8 Post package - I'll leave in, but it's weak in my opinion.
In -
+3 Eldrazi Temple - For what you want to do, this card is nuts. 2 Colorless mana, drawback free.
+2 Eye of Ugin - Yes, it's Legendary, but you really want one and Expedition Map is slow. Go up to 3 and never look back.
+4 Ancient Tomb - It will impact your life total, but it will power out Eldrazi.
+4 Vesuva - This is the other 4 in the typical 12-Post package. In a pinch, they also become Eldrazi Temples. A solid card.
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Disgustingly good with Eye of Ugin, and allows you to tap Ancient Tomb for B if you only need one mana but really need to not spend 2 life.
New land count: 24 (12 post, 4 E Temple, 4 A Tomb, 3 Eye, 1 Urborg)
Now, the disruption/acceleration package:
Just cut everything but All Is Dust, Pithing Needle, Expedition Map, Amulet of Vigor
Now play 4 of each of the 1 mana artifacts. You need Pithing Needle on Wasteland in basically every game, you can stack Amulet of Vigor triggers to get tons of mana (put each trigger on the stack and in response to each tap the lands for mana again), and Expedition Map is always good for colorless land search.
You probably want 2 copies of All Is Dust. I would be shocked if you really want the 3rd.
Consider playing a few Warping Wail, it's quite versatile and good.
Cut most of your Eldrazi, and try to fit in:
4 Thought-Knot Seer - He's a big body with a good disruptive effect you can power out early.
3-4 Kozilek's Channeler - This is an Eldrazi that's immune to Lightning Bolt, comes down early, and pushes you towards your big mana goals.
some number of Conduit of Ruin and/or Oblivion Sower. Eldrazi Temple + Eye of Ugin + Ancient Tomb should make it easy to power these guys out while you build up 12-Post, and they help advance you to your endgame.
Also, as much as you love Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, I would say that Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is a huge improvement for a deck's ability to stabilize, and would include one.
So your deck would look something like this after these tweaks:
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Expedition Map
2 All Is Dust
3 Warping Wail
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Reality Smasher
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I slotted in Reality Smasher for greater board presence early in the game here as well, then realized you have no way to pull out of a top-deck scenario so I added a Sea Gate Wreckage you can search up with Expedition Map.
A big part of competitive play is knowing what you are playing against. Pithing Needle is better if you know to name cards like Wasteland, JTMS, LoTV, etc. Warping Wail is better if you know what creatures if hits and what sorceries matter.
Sorry about that, it slipped my mind, I was thinking maybe local tournament level?
Thanks for the help! Although do you think I should replace Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth with Emrakul, the Promised End and Kozilek, The Great Distortion?
1) You're actually casting these big fatties, not just cheating them into play. The casting triggers on each Eldrazi is pretty back-breaking, but here's a raw comparison
Ulamog 1.0 = Destroy 1 Permanent
Ulamog 2.0 = Exile 2 Permanents
Kozilek 1.0 = Draw 4 Cards
Kozilek 2.0 = Draw between 0 and 7 cards, but guarantees with Kozilek 2.0 on the stack you have a 7-card hand
Emrakul 1.0 = Time Walk + Annihilator
Emrakul 2.0 = Mindslaver + Trample
In my mind, you should basically always upgrade Ulamog to The Ceaseless Hunger, unless Annihilator is that important to you. Kozilek is your choice, but I personally think 2.0 is the best option. In a deck that's playing a 10-drop, you probably were down to 1-3 cards in hand when you cast him, making him draw you 4+ cards. And he protects himself (via countermagic) and has evasion (via Menace), whereas 1.0 just has evasion (via Annihilator). Emrakul is the toughest choice. Emrakul 1.0 basically wins the game on the spot, but even for a big mana deck it takes a bit to get to 15 mana. Conversely, Emrakul 2.0 is more likely to get cast for 10-12 mana due to the diversity of cards in your deck and the interactivity of Legacy. That means that even though she's arguably weaker, you're more likely to get your Mindslaver. And once she resolves, protection from Instants is quite strong in Legacy. As is flying and trample. I think you should try piloting the deck and see how games play out. Nothing works better than solid playtesting data.
I see, maybe I could have Emrakul, the Promised End in the deck and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on a sideboard?