The issue with this idea in legacy is the multiple stuff in the format as well as answers to ensnaring bridge from spell pierce to FoW to abrupt decay.
That's also true in Modern, but that doesn't prevent it from doing well. 1 Duress could jack all of that up.
chaos021, I'm very interested in contacting this person. Do you have any information that could help me find out who it was?
I have been testing lantern a good bit recently in legacy. I know there is a build that will work, I just don't know what it looks like yet.
I found out that he's using some discard in sideboard, and Field of Dreams in the main over Lantern of Insight. He's added some number of blue cards and Force of Will. I get why some of the cards were added but I disagree with the general blue-centric build.
Took my above list to a weekly yesterday, -1 humilty +1 nevermore in the main, and a few random SB changes. Went 3-1 beating miracles twice, infect, and losing to reanimator.
Miracles was tense but I think my deck was favored from how things play out. I won 3 games via helm and 1 game from straight up using 3 mill rocks every turn of the game. I found it's actually fine to just spam Pyxis cause eventually you go from 3 mana to 4 then 5 6 7 and you can use pyxis to put a bridge effect or RiP in play. While you may not know whats under pyxis, when you search your deck you can easily count how many RiP or w/e are in there, which tells you wants under your pyxis. The only game I lost was when I kept a loose hand with 2 lanterns 2 rocks 1 land and other threats, but they got top+balance asap.
Infect was harder because of how faster they can kill you and the fact they play daze and forces. I lost g2 cause he landed a sylvan library and I was stuck behind an unsafe energy field. probably could have played this game different but head hurting too much lol. g3 I lot P nodes do work w/ needle naming inkmoth to shut out his creatures, then lock assembled to close him out.
Reanimator is a pain as they play forces and dazes, then later have discard and spell piereces. I had the option of t2 RiP both games but couldn't get around his countermagic in time. t3 he had revive griselbrand and then eventually found a tidespout tyrant to bounce my bridges + energy fields. I probably need more flusterstorms in the board (Was only playing with 2 at the time).
All-in-all the deck felt reasonably solid. I'm gonna keep working at it. Need to find out what matchups are what and make the SB work for that.
Shifting focus from a deck that wants to assemble lantern lock to a deck that wants to create a strong defense is a better path for this deck. I've thrown together this list recently. It has some good fighting power against many legacy decks because of the weird angle that it can shut them out. It has good defense against Chalice of the Void as well with the instants.
Obviously its a work-in-progress. Any advice or testing you guys want to throw at it be my guest. It's a bit easier to play that modern lantern since it doesn't require setting up the hard lock and then surviving.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
Maybe we don't hide behind bridge just energy field. Letting us keep counter spells in hand. Maybe something like this.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Spellskite
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Energy Field
4 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Codex Shredder
4 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Field of Dreams
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
2 Metamorphose
Also there are decks like elf and death and taxes that continue to make top eight. That can't do much about turn one kill decks. Like oops all spells.
With this, I'm allowed easier access to casting Blood Moon, which I think goes a long way to combating our touhh, Abrupt Decay matchups. Not entirely sure how correct this is, but Back to Basics was mediocre because often times they would just be sitting there with 6 mana open and never casting anything.
I also want a Seal of Cleansing in the 75 somewhere. There were times where I hand an e tutor available on their t1 while they try to cast chalice, grabbing a seal would be very helpful.
I hate to be "that budget guy", but when setting up Energy Field how much life do you usually find you lose? How much damage would Hallowed Fountain be to the deck over Tundra? Transitioning from Modern and might need a few months to make the switch. Super inspired by this list, it seems sweet!
So it seems Brainstorm is painful for the deck, as is combo. Could Countertop be a viable addition to the shell, or is that just going in the wrong direction?
I hate to be "that budget guy", but when setting up Energy Field how much life do you usually find you lose? How much damage would Hallowed Fountain be to the deck over Tundra? Transitioning from Modern and might need a few months to make the switch. Super inspired by this list, it seems sweet!
Energy Field is pretty cheap, a playset won't cost you more than $25 if you get it now.
So it seems Brainstorm is painful for the deck, as is combo. Could Countertop be a viable addition to the shell, or is that just going in the wrong direction?
Indeed, it makes me wonder if Uba Mask would be a good card in general for this deck. The cards have a cheap casting cost and Shadowgripper's deck eschews any sort of countermagic.
With this, I'm allowed easier access to casting Blood Moon, which I think goes a long way to combating our touhh, Abrupt Decay matchups. Not entirely sure how correct this is, but Back to Basics was mediocre because often times they would just be sitting there with 6 mana open and never casting anything.
I also want a Seal of Cleansing in the 75 somewhere. There were times where I hand an e tutor available on their t1 while they try to cast chalice, grabbing a seal would be very helpful.
By chance could we see what deck list/sideboard this has evolved into. Thanks for the update.
If Uba Mask cost 3, maybe. It seems that this deck really doesn't want to add anything costing more than 3 mana, unless it wins you the game on the spot. Like Helm if RIP is out. Even that seems like something I'm willing to pass up on if a better lock piece comes up, personally.
Private Mod Note
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Vintage: Blue Belcher, Mentor Remora, Burning Long
Legacy: ANT, Sneak and Show, Omnitell, Oops All Spells
Modern: Grishoalbrand, Infect, UR Storm, Ad Nauseam, Lantern Control
I played an Esper prison deck a while ago that looks like it played the same style of game, but maybe less controlling in favor of individually powerful things. Just putting out some ideas based on what I remember from that deck, even though it was a few years ago and a different deck. It was basically a Tezzerator core, modified to run Enlightened Tutor in place of Transmute Artifact, with a bunch of hateful enchantments along with the artifacts. They are not budget-friendly at all though, so it's probably not worth buying a lot of the cards just to play in a fringe deck.
If Brainstorm, and drawing extra cards in general, is a major problem, splashing for Chains of Mephistopheles looks like the best answer, especially with Enlightened Tutors already. You might have to cut your own Brainstorms, but if you only run one Chains to tutor against specific opponents you might be able to get away with both. A black splash also opens up the option to run hand disruption in the board. I also played one of some other high-dollar hate cards for people that are able to get them, specifically The Abyss and Moat in place of a couple Bridges, and Nether Void. I also ran Trinisphere and Humility, which are easier on the budget, and in most situations I found Humility was actually the best of the creature-hate options.
I ran a pretty high land count with a set of Mox Diamonds to pick up some speed; Chrome Mox or Mox Opal might work better here depending on your land/color/artifact counts. The biggest reason I played them was to go for a turn 1 Chalice, which wouldn't work out in this deck, but it can also let you play other things that would otherwise be just a little bit slow, like Trinisphere/Arcane Laboratory, or that Uba Mask as a budget Chains (one game I managed to land a turn 1 Trinisphere with a double Mox hand, I just always have to mention that when I talk about this deck). This deck has a lower curve than mine did, but playing a couple could help get hate cards on the field early in matchups where they're important. That might mean playing a few in the board, especially for when you're on the draw - sometimes you just need to drop RIP turn one on the draw against Reanimator or Dredge, or Humility before Elves can draw 20 cards, or a Bridge before they ramp into Sneak Attack.
Someone mentioned adding the Counter-Top package in here. I played one of each and they didn't work in my list. I wasn't able to do what I wanted while also keeping enough cards of different mana costs for them to be consistent. If I remember right, my high land count plus the Diamonds was a big part of that, so perhaps this list could play one of each to E-Tutor up when the opponent runs mostly 1-drops. Lantern helps them play around it a little bit, but only if you don't have mill rocks up. In fact, you might even be able to just play one Counterbalance without Top since there is a bunch of manipulation already, with possibly another plus a Top in the board if it tests well, but I doubt there's enough room for the full set of 8.
I do think one or two Jace would be good here, but I haven't played the deck so I could be completely wrong. He's an extra Shredder when the opponent has a lot of hate (which will show up sooner or later if you play this somewhere regularly), including getting through Chalice/Prelate on 1 unlike the others, still works if you have to pop your Lantern, and works towards his ultimate while doing that. He's also an extra pseudo-removal spell for creatures that don't care about Bridge, and an extra way to repeatedly dig for things you need. It could just be that the deck doesn't want 4-drops, but he just does several different things in one card that all seem great here. Brainstorm actually looks like his least useful ability in this deck, and everybody likes to Brainstorm.
Also, there's that new legend that gives all your artifacts hexproof (and dodges both Bolt and Decay). He seems like he fixes one of the biggest issues with prison decks I've played, i.e. your opponent finding an answer to whatever hate piece is holding them back while trying to get your kill/lock in place. There are plenty of cards available that disrupt this deck, and even more cantrips to dig past what mill rocks can take out. If you play the black high-budget splash, Guardian Beast is a maybe-better version.
Just throwing this out there - Visions and Portent can set up your opponents next few draws as early as turn one. They're probably not good enough, they just keep popping into my head while writing about this deck so I thought I would mention them.
Dunno, but the deck seems really bad in the current meta.
Lot of Eldrazi which can lock you up turn one with Chalice and board Thorn of Amethyst afterside, Grixis Delver that seems impossible to disrupt as Bug Delver.
If anyone has an update, that would be fair, but I doubt that anyone is working on this deck anymore.
Eldrazi is not a bad matchup. You slam an Energy Field game 1, how do they win? On the play you'd be able to e tutor for it.
The hard matchups are Grixis Delver, BUG decks, Storm (i think?), and Elves. Other decks like Miracles, Dredge, and Lands are all pretty favorable.
Here is my current list. The Scrublands are flex, and the sideboard is work-in-progress
I'll preface my post by saying that I know next to nothing about the legacy meta (or the format in general really, the last time I played it was maybe a decade ago) or any of the less than obvious card choices that are going into these lists, but I have been toying around with the idea of legacy lantern since I read top got banned. I'm just fumbling around in the dark here, but what my instinct pushed me towards was a blue black list that can turbo out the lock pieces asap with duress backup. Unfortunately I have very little means to test it because every time I try to experiment with it online my opponent just says 'lol that's not a legacy deck, play something real, this isn't modern kid, etc.' and leaves or I get a hilarious opener and they scoop within a turn after I mangle their options or play one of the hosers that they aren't prepared to deal with game 1. Not to mention how much of a ***** it is to get anyone to playtest against lantern to begin with. Here's my first draft:
Triple time walking someone with Misinformation is pretty lulzy, but it might be better off just being noxious revival or something, I like it but it's probably too cute for legacy. Random selection cantrips are problematic for the deck because they're so ubiquitous and they work around lantern too well. But if you can duress them down to just one and they whiff on it you're usually in a pretty good position. Other than that I can't really say much with any degree of certainty, so I'll defer to players with more format experience on running with the idea.
One other thing is that it does a great impression of storm in its first few actions (I think, how do I played legacy?) which could make people misplay horribly against it.
That's also true in Modern, but that doesn't prevent it from doing well. 1 Duress could jack all of that up.
I found out that he's using some discard in sideboard, and Field of Dreams in the main over Lantern of Insight. He's added some number of blue cards and Force of Will. I get why some of the cards were added but I disagree with the general blue-centric build.
Miracles was tense but I think my deck was favored from how things play out. I won 3 games via helm and 1 game from straight up using 3 mill rocks every turn of the game. I found it's actually fine to just spam Pyxis cause eventually you go from 3 mana to 4 then 5 6 7 and you can use pyxis to put a bridge effect or RiP in play. While you may not know whats under pyxis, when you search your deck you can easily count how many RiP or w/e are in there, which tells you wants under your pyxis. The only game I lost was when I kept a loose hand with 2 lanterns 2 rocks 1 land and other threats, but they got top+balance asap.
Infect was harder because of how faster they can kill you and the fact they play daze and forces. I lost g2 cause he landed a sylvan library and I was stuck behind an unsafe energy field. probably could have played this game different but head hurting too much lol. g3 I lot P nodes do work w/ needle naming inkmoth to shut out his creatures, then lock assembled to close him out.
Reanimator is a pain as they play forces and dazes, then later have discard and spell piereces. I had the option of t2 RiP both games but couldn't get around his countermagic in time. t3 he had revive griselbrand and then eventually found a tidespout tyrant to bounce my bridges + energy fields. I probably need more flusterstorms in the board (Was only playing with 2 at the time).
All-in-all the deck felt reasonably solid. I'm gonna keep working at it. Need to find out what matchups are what and make the SB work for that.
Cabal Therapy?
Also, why the absence of Surgical Extraction? Yes, Rest in Peace, takes care of that, but until then? also, Surgical allows us to extract cards from library.
Another Silly suggestion:Soldier of Fortune. It does require R, but it provides more control over the top.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Spellskite
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Energy Field
4 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Codex Shredder
4 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Field of Dreams
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
2 Metamorphose
Also there are decks like elf and death and taxes that continue to make top eight. That can't do much about turn one kill decks. Like oops all spells.
Article on Legacy Lantern for Zac's Day 2 GP Columbus run. F the haters.
Cross-post from other forum on changes I'd like to make moving forward:
I want to touch up the manabase to look like this (21 lands total):
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Plateau
4 Tundra
1 Ancient Den
4 Plains
3 Island
With this, I'm allowed easier access to casting Blood Moon, which I think goes a long way to combating our touhh, Abrupt Decay matchups. Not entirely sure how correct this is, but Back to Basics was mediocre because often times they would just be sitting there with 6 mana open and never casting anything.
I also want a Seal of Cleansing in the 75 somewhere. There were times where I hand an e tutor available on their t1 while they try to cast chalice, grabbing a seal would be very helpful.
So it seems Brainstorm is painful for the deck, as is combo. Could Countertop be a viable addition to the shell, or is that just going in the wrong direction?
Energy Field is pretty cheap, a playset won't cost you more than $25 if you get it now.
Indeed, it makes me wonder if Uba Mask would be a good card in general for this deck. The cards have a cheap casting cost and Shadowgripper's deck eschews any sort of countermagic.
By chance could we see what deck list/sideboard this has evolved into. Thanks for the update.
Legacy: ANT, Sneak and Show, Omnitell, Oops All Spells
Modern: Grishoalbrand, Infect, UR Storm, Ad Nauseam, Lantern Control
Can you sense the pattern here?
If Brainstorm, and drawing extra cards in general, is a major problem, splashing for Chains of Mephistopheles looks like the best answer, especially with Enlightened Tutors already. You might have to cut your own Brainstorms, but if you only run one Chains to tutor against specific opponents you might be able to get away with both. A black splash also opens up the option to run hand disruption in the board. I also played one of some other high-dollar hate cards for people that are able to get them, specifically The Abyss and Moat in place of a couple Bridges, and Nether Void. I also ran Trinisphere and Humility, which are easier on the budget, and in most situations I found Humility was actually the best of the creature-hate options.
I ran a pretty high land count with a set of Mox Diamonds to pick up some speed; Chrome Mox or Mox Opal might work better here depending on your land/color/artifact counts. The biggest reason I played them was to go for a turn 1 Chalice, which wouldn't work out in this deck, but it can also let you play other things that would otherwise be just a little bit slow, like Trinisphere/Arcane Laboratory, or that Uba Mask as a budget Chains (one game I managed to land a turn 1 Trinisphere with a double Mox hand, I just always have to mention that when I talk about this deck). This deck has a lower curve than mine did, but playing a couple could help get hate cards on the field early in matchups where they're important. That might mean playing a few in the board, especially for when you're on the draw - sometimes you just need to drop RIP turn one on the draw against Reanimator or Dredge, or Humility before Elves can draw 20 cards, or a Bridge before they ramp into Sneak Attack.
Someone mentioned adding the Counter-Top package in here. I played one of each and they didn't work in my list. I wasn't able to do what I wanted while also keeping enough cards of different mana costs for them to be consistent. If I remember right, my high land count plus the Diamonds was a big part of that, so perhaps this list could play one of each to E-Tutor up when the opponent runs mostly 1-drops. Lantern helps them play around it a little bit, but only if you don't have mill rocks up. In fact, you might even be able to just play one Counterbalance without Top since there is a bunch of manipulation already, with possibly another plus a Top in the board if it tests well, but I doubt there's enough room for the full set of 8.
I do think one or two Jace would be good here, but I haven't played the deck so I could be completely wrong. He's an extra Shredder when the opponent has a lot of hate (which will show up sooner or later if you play this somewhere regularly), including getting through Chalice/Prelate on 1 unlike the others, still works if you have to pop your Lantern, and works towards his ultimate while doing that. He's also an extra pseudo-removal spell for creatures that don't care about Bridge, and an extra way to repeatedly dig for things you need. It could just be that the deck doesn't want 4-drops, but he just does several different things in one card that all seem great here. Brainstorm actually looks like his least useful ability in this deck, and everybody likes to Brainstorm.
Also, there's that new legend that gives all your artifacts hexproof (and dodges both Bolt and Decay). He seems like he fixes one of the biggest issues with prison decks I've played, i.e. your opponent finding an answer to whatever hate piece is holding them back while trying to get your kill/lock in place. There are plenty of cards available that disrupt this deck, and even more cantrips to dig past what mill rocks can take out. If you play the black high-budget splash, Guardian Beast is a maybe-better version.
Just throwing this out there - Visions and Portent can set up your opponents next few draws as early as turn one. They're probably not good enough, they just keep popping into my head while writing about this deck so I thought I would mention them.
Eldrazi is not a bad matchup. You slam an Energy Field game 1, how do they win? On the play you'd be able to e tutor for it.
The hard matchups are Grixis Delver, BUG decks, Storm (i think?), and Elves. Other decks like Miracles, Dredge, and Lands are all pretty favorable.
Here is my current list. The Scrublands are flex, and the sideboard is work-in-progress
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
3 Pyxis of Pandemonium
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Opal
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Energy Field
4 Rest in Peace
3 Pithing Needle
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Runed Halo
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
4 Tundra
4 Plains
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Flusterstorm
3 Swan Song
2 Metamorphose
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Peacekeeper
2 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Can you share additional insight into nevermore vs runed halo, your mana base, and your sideboard?
edit: I'm also a bit confused by the singleton lotus petal and mox opal. Can you tell me a bit about them?
4 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
1 Island
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Academy Ruins
Consistency
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
1 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Graveyard Interaction
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Misinformation
Removal & Duress
2 Set Adrift
2 Collective Brutality
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
1 Set Adrift
1 Thoughtseize
Triple time walking someone with Misinformation is pretty lulzy, but it might be better off just being noxious revival or something, I like it but it's probably too cute for legacy. Random selection cantrips are problematic for the deck because they're so ubiquitous and they work around lantern too well. But if you can duress them down to just one and they whiff on it you're usually in a pretty good position. Other than that I can't really say much with any degree of certainty, so I'll defer to players with more format experience on running with the idea.
One other thing is that it does a great impression of storm in its first few actions (I think, how do I played legacy?) which could make people misplay horribly against it.