I'm really surprised that this deck is not already represented here. I know some people probably dismissed this deck following the banning of Treasure Cruise, but it's actually still totally viable, as Dig Through Time still gets the deck rolling and helps find Force of Will more reliably when going off. Those with SCG platinum can check out Sam Black's playthrough with his post-ban build in their premium section. Here's his decklist:
For those not in the know, the deck tries to drop a Jeskai Ascendancy as soon as possible and then tries to go off by playing cantrip effects while continually untapping lands with Fatestitcher or Wind Zendikon. Eventually the deck plays so many spells that the Ascendancy makes 1 or 2 creatures large enough to kill the opponent. Before attacking, Fatestitcher can tap down the opponent's blockers. Some builds also use Faerie Conclave or Young Pyromancer as a kill condition. Pyromancer can even be brought in out of the board to replace Fatestitcher when you believe that your opponent will be siding in graveyard hate.
Regarding the list above, I will note that some people don't like cards like Gut Shot and Faithless Looting because they do not cantrip. I've seen other people recommend cards like Obsessive Search or Manamorphose as "free" cantrips that are good to draw when going off.
I've tried this deck out for a bit and not only is it competitive, but it's pretty fun if you don't mind keeping track of all the Ascendancy triggers.
Has anyone else tried this deck out? What were your impressions? Any thoughts on card selection?
I think there is already a thread about this deck.
After a quick search, there isn't one specifically devoted to a Jeskai Ascendancy Combo Deck in Legacy Developing.
As far as the deck itself goes, I'm incredibly surprised that it doesn't play either Ponder or Preordain and instead uses Deep Analysis and Faithless looting. I understand the desire for more cards that are live if they're milled, but even so I really don't like them.
After some gold-fishing, I like the Ponders. Being able to find lands in this deck is really important, considering the very low land count. As such, I was able to successfully gold-fish to a turn 4 win with insane consistency, as well as some turn 3s and some golden hand turn 2s. The 8x Thoughtscour does an amazing amount of work fueling Digs, clearing early brainstorms, and milling Stitchers.
Additional thoughts, comments, concerns: I never felt like the singleton Chrome Mox did anything. The card disadvantage is so rough in this deck. I understand the purpose of Gut Shot, main-deck answer to Thalia that isn't dead during the combo. My question is, why dilute the main-deck that way? Preboard that matchup is already pretty terrible, and removing Thalia is really really hard anyway. As such, I strongly believe those gutshots should be Noxious Revivals. Being able to guarantee your next draw is a cantrip, or to return a countered Zendikon or Ascendancy seems much better than a dead card in most matchups.
I strongly believe that the sideboard plan should include a way to transform into a non-graveyard combo deck. 2x more wind zendikon, and 4x cantrip to replace the digs. Either that or more Echoing Truths to help clear the way for the combo turn. As such, I would run something along these lines:
Off hand, poor matchups seem to be Death and Taxes, particularly pre-board, but also post board. Any chalice deck is problematic as well. Miracles is probably 50/50. Everything else seems pretty solid. The huge amount of card selection really limits the effectiveness of hand disruption in anything other than a raw card-count way. As such, I would firmly put this in the Tier 1.5/2 category. It's a solid deck in the right meta, and can certainly be improved as new and better creature mana enablers are printed.
As far as the non-graveyard version post-sideboard: Have you tried this out, and is it effective/reliable without Dig Through Time?
The transformative sideboard to non-graveyard combo is less consistent by a small but noticeable margin. I firmly believe that should be the sideboard plan only when the meta is incredibly anti-graveyard shenanigans. Maintaining the control elements and outs to different kinds of hate is very important.
As far as Noxious Revival goes, I believe it shines in card-draw combo decks like this. It ensures good draws from loots and cantrips. It can turn the self-mill into card selection. While it doesn't fuel Dig, that's not very hard for us to do anyway.
I don't like removing solutions from the patriot version (main deck blots and swords...). The strength of the similar modern version was to control the game and finish it with the combo. This is even more important in Legacy where the decks are faster.
I think there can/should be a distinction between the full/fast Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck and an American control list with Ascendancies for value/late game combo. If we were, however, to include main-deck control elements I have some thoughts on that as well. In particular, we want spells that answer threats and aren't dead mid-combo. The premier spell in that vein is Lightning Bolt. It can remove any hatebears that might make an appearance (Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Gaddock Teeg, Containment Priest, Canonist, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Deathrite Shaman, Scooze), as well as slow down an opponents clock (Delver, Stoneforge Mystic, Pyromancer, Goblin Guide, etc), and then it can also be used during the combo to bolt the face. Obviously, it doesn't cantrip, but the loot is incredibly irrelevant, and it also reduces the number of spells we must cast by 3.
I don't agree with any must-target-creatures control elements, as they could potentially be very very dead during the combo turn. I also don't think Plowing big threats is a good idea in a deck that needs to deal damage in order to win. This obviously means we have no outs to many resolved creatures, but ideally we can counter their big creature play by just winning anyway. The same consideration goes for non-force of will counterspells. If you're looking to combo with a reasonable chance of success, every spell needs to be live. Considering the 2cmc nature of many many hate cards, I wouldn't mind Spell Snare as a card in this deck. While we're primarily looking to establish velocity by cantriping as fast and as often as possible, Spell Snare hits in that sweet spot of 1 cmc answer to most hate cards.
I'd be interested in seeing a UWR Ascendancy Pyromancer list. Ideally it would be played as a control deck with Ascendancy providing incredible value instead of a combo win. In fact, I might brew something up along those lines in the next coupled days.
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
2 Wind Zendikon
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
2 Gut Shot
4 Mental Note
4 Thought Scour
2 Deep Analysis
2 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
3 Swords to Plowshares
For those not in the know, the deck tries to drop a Jeskai Ascendancy as soon as possible and then tries to go off by playing cantrip effects while continually untapping lands with Fatestitcher or Wind Zendikon. Eventually the deck plays so many spells that the Ascendancy makes 1 or 2 creatures large enough to kill the opponent. Before attacking, Fatestitcher can tap down the opponent's blockers. Some builds also use Faerie Conclave or Young Pyromancer as a kill condition. Pyromancer can even be brought in out of the board to replace Fatestitcher when you believe that your opponent will be siding in graveyard hate.
Regarding the list above, I will note that some people don't like cards like Gut Shot and Faithless Looting because they do not cantrip. I've seen other people recommend cards like Obsessive Search or Manamorphose as "free" cantrips that are good to draw when going off.
I've tried this deck out for a bit and not only is it competitive, but it's pretty fun if you don't mind keeping track of all the Ascendancy triggers.
Has anyone else tried this deck out? What were your impressions? Any thoughts on card selection?
After a quick search, there isn't one specifically devoted to a Jeskai Ascendancy Combo Deck in Legacy Developing.
As far as the deck itself goes, I'm incredibly surprised that it doesn't play either Ponder or Preordain and instead uses Deep Analysis and Faithless looting. I understand the desire for more cards that are live if they're milled, but even so I really don't like them.
After some gold-fishing, I like the Ponders. Being able to find lands in this deck is really important, considering the very low land count. As such, I was able to successfully gold-fish to a turn 4 win with insane consistency, as well as some turn 3s and some golden hand turn 2s. The 8x Thoughtscour does an amazing amount of work fueling Digs, clearing early brainstorms, and milling Stitchers.
Additional thoughts, comments, concerns: I never felt like the singleton Chrome Mox did anything. The card disadvantage is so rough in this deck. I understand the purpose of Gut Shot, main-deck answer to Thalia that isn't dead during the combo. My question is, why dilute the main-deck that way? Preboard that matchup is already pretty terrible, and removing Thalia is really really hard anyway. As such, I strongly believe those gutshots should be Noxious Revivals. Being able to guarantee your next draw is a cantrip, or to return a countered Zendikon or Ascendancy seems much better than a dead card in most matchups.
I strongly believe that the sideboard plan should include a way to transform into a non-graveyard combo deck. 2x more wind zendikon, and 4x cantrip to replace the digs. Either that or more Echoing Truths to help clear the way for the combo turn. As such, I would run something along these lines:
4x Brainstorm
4x Thought Scour
4x Mental Note
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Dig Through Time
Protection and Enablers{10}
4x Force of Will
3x Noxious Revival
4x Lotus Petal
4x Jeskai Ascendancy
4x Fatestitcher
2x Wind Zendikon
Lands{15)
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
2x Island
2x Wind Zendikon
4x Preordain
4x Pyroblast
3x Pyroclasm
2x Flusterstorm
3x Echoing Truth
4x Pyroblast
3x Flusterstorm
3x Pyroclasm
2x Shattering Spree
Off hand, poor matchups seem to be Death and Taxes, particularly pre-board, but also post board. Any chalice deck is problematic as well. Miracles is probably 50/50. Everything else seems pretty solid. The huge amount of card selection really limits the effectiveness of hand disruption in anything other than a raw card-count way. As such, I would firmly put this in the Tier 1.5/2 category. It's a solid deck in the right meta, and can certainly be improved as new and better creature mana enablers are printed.
Same reason I couldn't find it. Didn't come up in search.
This seems like a great call. Noxious Revival should be excellent in this deck.
As far as the non-graveyard version post-sideboard: Have you tried this out, and is it effective/reliable without Dig Through Time?
The transformative sideboard to non-graveyard combo is less consistent by a small but noticeable margin. I firmly believe that should be the sideboard plan only when the meta is incredibly anti-graveyard shenanigans. Maintaining the control elements and outs to different kinds of hate is very important.
As far as Noxious Revival goes, I believe it shines in card-draw combo decks like this. It ensures good draws from loots and cantrips. It can turn the self-mill into card selection. While it doesn't fuel Dig, that's not very hard for us to do anyway.
I think there can/should be a distinction between the full/fast Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck and an American control list with Ascendancies for value/late game combo. If we were, however, to include main-deck control elements I have some thoughts on that as well. In particular, we want spells that answer threats and aren't dead mid-combo. The premier spell in that vein is Lightning Bolt. It can remove any hatebears that might make an appearance (Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Gaddock Teeg, Containment Priest, Canonist, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Deathrite Shaman, Scooze), as well as slow down an opponents clock (Delver, Stoneforge Mystic, Pyromancer, Goblin Guide, etc), and then it can also be used during the combo to bolt the face. Obviously, it doesn't cantrip, but the loot is incredibly irrelevant, and it also reduces the number of spells we must cast by 3.
I don't agree with any must-target-creatures control elements, as they could potentially be very very dead during the combo turn. I also don't think Plowing big threats is a good idea in a deck that needs to deal damage in order to win. This obviously means we have no outs to many resolved creatures, but ideally we can counter their big creature play by just winning anyway. The same consideration goes for non-force of will counterspells. If you're looking to combo with a reasonable chance of success, every spell needs to be live. Considering the 2cmc nature of many many hate cards, I wouldn't mind Spell Snare as a card in this deck. While we're primarily looking to establish velocity by cantriping as fast and as often as possible, Spell Snare hits in that sweet spot of 1 cmc answer to most hate cards.
I'd be interested in seeing a UWR Ascendancy Pyromancer list. Ideally it would be played as a control deck with Ascendancy providing incredible value instead of a combo win. In fact, I might brew something up along those lines in the next coupled days.
Summoner's Pact Pact of Negation Slaughter Pact are all good.
Possibly some storm cards?
Reborn Hope. Two in hand. Discard one. Cast second targeting first. Go infinite.
Riftstone Portal. Putting one in the yard helps cast other than blue spells.
Also some tech I saw when someone said Thought Scour was cool.
Gaea's Blessing.
Pros:
Gets you two cards
Let's you grab some cantrips
When used with thought scour gives you back everything
Cons:
CMC 2
Just my thoughts on what can be a Teir 1 deck
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB