Has anyone seen any threads talking about the interaction between Cloudform and Phyrexian Dreadnought? Is this going to be part of a deck list in Legacy? Obviously this deck list would have to include brainstorms and tops and such to be able to set up the top of the deck for cloud form, but it is such a sick interaction because one of the problems with dreadnought was he did not have any evasion.
A friend of mine was working on a list like this, and it was going OK.
We thought it might work best with a black splash for Thoughtseize. It was running as kind of a Miracles-type control deck, with Countertop and all the search, but with black instead of red and this nasty Dreadnought kill in lieu of angels/Jace.
A friend of mine was working on a list like this, and it was going OK.
We thought it might work best with a black splash for Thoughtseize. It was running as kind of a Miracles-type control deck, with Countertop and all the search, but with black instead of red and this nasty Dreadnought kill in lieu of angels/Jace.
I've been doing a lot of DnT lately so sadly I haven't worked too much on this deck.
@Borealis42 This is my latest list, from shortly after FRF release:
There are many small changes I'd like to make, like swapping red for black as Lormador said, but otherwise the list has been pretty solid so far in testing. It runs two combos, Dreadnought Cloudform and Thopter Sword, since both of these combos work very well with the base of the deck, which is basically Countertop + Enlightened Tutor abuse.
If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'd love to see people pick up this combo. It's lots of fun!
I tried some CloudNought in a UW CounterTop shell. I found out a few things:
The CounterTop shell can't put one of 2 Phyrexian Dreadnoughts on top of the library fast enough (OK, I should have known this from my experience with Entreat the Angels)
Cloudform is a bazillion times better than Dreadnought on its own--among other things, it's guaranteed to trade with Delver
It made me wonder why I wasn't playing UW Miracle Control, especially when it had a worse time stabilizing than Miracles does. The True-Name Nemesis I put in as an alt win con won more games than CloudNought did.
Maindeck Tutors can put whatever you want in the top, since all 4 combo pieces are artifacts or enchantments. You can also turn Tutor into a counterspell if you have a Counterbalance in play because you can run CMC1-4 stuff in the maindeck.
Academy Ruins can be used to put Dreadnought on the top from hand by paying 1 to play and sacrifice and then flip it from the GY. You can also exploit E. Explosives with Ruins.
This deck runs tutors which is the biggest advantage over Miracles. The Dreadnought combo can also be assembled and ran with as low as 3 lands in play, unlike Miracles where you need a sizeable manabase before you can consider pushing for the win.
Think of it as an alternative to Dark Depths, but fetching artifacts intead of lands, and the fatty having hexproof.
The problem with dreadnought wasn't evasion. 12/12 trample is pretty difficult to block profitably. The problem is that abrupt decay wrecks it as well as virtually every removal spell on the planet. I understand the fascination with cloudform granting hexproof but 1UU + other setup to get a 12/12 flying trample hexproof is too difficult in legacy I feel to be a tier 1 strategy. Best you can really do is jam 4 enlightened tutors in a UWx control shell with cloudforms and dreadnoughts as well as stifles/trickbinds and hope it works. It is indeed nice that brainstorm acts favorably towards this 2 card combo as well since you put back nought and cloudform on top EoT or just nought on top mainphase into cloudform.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Here's my list, used only one Cloudform though.. then dropped it.. too slow.
Medium to great success at local tourneys (15-25 people):
Vision Charm is a fifth Stifle.
Delvers are nice blockers, possible win-con (a bit of a stretch), still they are always scary for opponent, and they pitch to Force.
Thanks.
We thought it might work best with a black splash for Thoughtseize. It was running as kind of a Miracles-type control deck, with Countertop and all the search, but with black instead of red and this nasty Dreadnought kill in lieu of angels/Jace.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I've been doing a lot of DnT lately so sadly I haven't worked too much on this deck.
@Borealis42 This is my latest list, from shortly after FRF release:
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
2 Cloudform
3 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Moat
2 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Blood Moon
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Seal of Cleansing
3 Terminus
There are many small changes I'd like to make, like swapping red for black as Lormador said, but otherwise the list has been pretty solid so far in testing. It runs two combos, Dreadnought Cloudform and Thopter Sword, since both of these combos work very well with the base of the deck, which is basically Countertop + Enlightened Tutor abuse.
If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'd love to see people pick up this combo. It's lots of fun!
Academy Ruins can be used to put Dreadnought on the top from hand by paying 1 to play and sacrifice and then flip it from the GY. You can also exploit E. Explosives with Ruins.
This deck runs tutors which is the biggest advantage over Miracles. The Dreadnought combo can also be assembled and ran with as low as 3 lands in play, unlike Miracles where you need a sizeable manabase before you can consider pushing for the win.
Think of it as an alternative to Dark Depths, but fetching artifacts intead of lands, and the fatty having hexproof.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Medium to great success at local tourneys (15-25 people):
Vision Charm is a fifth Stifle.
Delvers are nice blockers, possible win-con (a bit of a stretch), still they are always scary for opponent, and they pitch to Force.
4 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Hall of the Bandit Lord
3 Apostle's Blessing
4 Brainstorm
3 Delver of Secrets
4 Force of Will
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Tutor
4 Torpor Orb
1 Vision Charm
2 Void Snare
4 Worldly Tutor
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus