entomb and enlightened tutor can be the core of the deck, but i need to fill in some spots. i don't think thoughtsieze and silence will be enough protection/disruption.
since it runs enlightened tutor for the enchantments, i figure sundering titan or another artifact creature could be a back up plan.
enlightened tutor is primarily your means of getting to codex shredder.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
The third piece of the combo is anything you can manage. The cleanest kill is Oona, as seen in Vintage, and Pirana Marsh. The Source has even tossed around the idea of splashing Green for Crop Rotation to tutor mid combo for Marsh or, if they gain hexproof, Shivan Gorge. Adding green also makes Abrupt Decay in the side an option.
I really like Crop Rotation plus Nephalia Drownyard or Duskmantle, House of Shadow with both being not only a kill against non Eldrazi decks, but our extremely watered down Bazaar, as both let us you dump cards into our graveyard to hit a second creature to stop the loop. Both also tap for mana, something Codex Shredder does not.
An interesting combo with the mill lands: Animate Dead Snapcaster Mage getting Cunning Wish getting Stroke, Blue Sun, Searing Touch--Hell replace Cunning Wish for Burning Wish and now you have a whole other set of options like Banefire, Bitter Ordeal (!!!!!)...you get the point.
It's just a matter of finding the cleanest and most economic kill. It will take time, but I think with a ton of collective minds behind it, Dragon could be a thing in Legacy.
This list looks awesome.. Have you considered a more premission based route? F.O.W, daze, possibly silence, with the full suite of blue library manipulators brainstorm, careful study, ponder?
Could possibly cut Snap and Cunning wish for Read the Runes because you can draw out and get Oona into the yard.
Drownyard is another win con and our bad version of Bazaar. This maybe Duskmantle because it's cheaper to activate in case the game gets long. Shivan Gorge is always good game 2 against Leyline.
Cutting green lets us play Brainstom and makes mana better, as the badlands could always be a dual. We can keep Oona and also have access to Read the Runes and maybe even Scholar of Athreos to beat Leyline. Also opens up white splash for permission.
I think a more resilient build could get away with force, but this one seems a bit faat for it. I think Daze is good
This way, you have multiple lines of play. You can Reanimate/Animate Dead a Griselbrand and ride him to victory, or you can Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead a WGD and generate infinite mana. Grisel becomes another good way to break the loop, letting you potentially draw a bunch of cards with infinite mana into Oona/Entomb+a Reanimate for Oona/Read the Runes into Oona
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
This way, you have multiple lines of play. You can Reanimate/Animate Dead a Griselbrand and ride him to victory, or you can Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead a WGD and generate infinite mana. Grisel becomes another good way to break the loop, letting you potentially draw a bunch of cards with infinite mana into Oona/Entomb+a Reanimate for Oona/Read the Runes into Oona
Now THIS I like. Just might test it out and see how it goes.
Now THIS I like. Just might test it out and see how it goes.
Note I threw this list together in like 5 minutes and without looking at existing Reanimator lists, so it's very possible some of these choices are incorrect - it may be better to pack a few Thoughtseize over Dazes, for example, as it's still disruption and can be used as a discard outlet in a pinch.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
If your going to go a more traditional route as far as a reanimator package do you think it would be safe to cut a few copies of gorger for a few more draw spells help us possibly see a few more cards/f.o.w more consistantly? I am just curious that or possibly a little accelleration in a few petals so when you want to go off you can build critical mass faster.
What about Empty the Pits? It isn't an instant-win though, if they have a board wipe before you can swing, but it was one I hadn't seen mentioned at least. It's instant speed and works in mono-black. Probably not a good choice, though... it also requires a non-Worldgorger Dragon creature in a graveyard somewhere that you can attach Animate Dead onto, otherwise you don't stop the loop. There's probably a lot of potential game winners better than this one if you have another creature to target to stop that loop and get to cast a sorcery or something.
What about Empty the Pits? It isn't an instant-win though, if they have a board wipe before you can swing, but it was one I hadn't seen mentioned at least. It's instant speed and works in mono-black.
If you could find some way of giving them haste that would work.
Well, haste & untap them all, because they also enter tapped. It isn't an ideal choice, to be sure. I only mentioned it because it hadn't been mentioned yet, but the more I think about it, the more I realize there are just plain and simply strictly better options to win the game, so it maybe didn't need to be mentioned. Oh well.
Well, haste & untap them all, because they also enter tapped. It isn't an ideal choice, to be sure. I only mentioned it because it hadn't been mentioned yet, but the more I think about it, the more I realize there are just plain and simply strictly better options to win the game, so it maybe didn't need to be mentioned. Oh well.
could use some crop rotation to tutor up piranha marsh and drownyard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Wouldn't you need a way to break the dragon loop before you can go to attacks? To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) you need a mana sink that kills your opponent immediately, because without breaking the loop somehow you can't do anything else (like attack with a bunch of hasty dudes).
EDIT: You'd also have stop the loop right after making the tokens, because they'd cease to exist if they get exiled by the dragon.
I did a TON of goldfishing on this yesterday with two types of lists, Reanimator inspired lists and Tin Fins inspired lists. I'd encourage everyone sharing lists here to goldfish them a lot and see how you feel. For me, the results were that I could find no advantage over traditional Reanimator lists by going with the Worldgorger version. You're essentially wasting deck space by making Worldgorger your non-Gris win con over the stuff they normally play, like Tidespout Tyrant. This ultimately means that you either have to shave combo pieces, or shave permission, which makes Griselbrand a worse play. It is nice to have more of an instant win to the deck, but it simply isn't worth it IMO.
I did end up coming up with a hybrid-ish version that might have some advantages over each.
This way, you get the speed advantage over traditional reanimator (which is the only reason I can come up with to run Worldgorger), and your advantage over Tin Fins is that less of the overall deck is actually dedicated to going off, so you can run 4 Worldgorger and 4 Careful Study and not rely solely on Entomb as an enabler. This is crucially important too because with this set up, you usually need an Entomb for Oona to win once you're going off. This allows the deck to dedicate only one card to the win-con, not wasting spots on X spells, and I think adds a lot to the consistency.
4x Dig Through Time is an adoption from Omniscience decks. I'm not sure it's better than having some number of Intuitions. Intuition is better mid-combo because you can generally guarantee a win, whereas I've whiffed a few times with DTT mid-combo. But DTT has been a little bit better pre-combo due to its cheaper cost, and being a lot better when you're missing both pieces of the combo. I think that the better pre-combo card is the one to include, since you can always combo out for the draw, whereas if you can't combo off at all you lose.
Another thing I want to test is including maybe a couple of Griselbrands, which make the Careful Studies better. It's hard to fit them in though, since I'm already running less lands than I'd ideally want to (it's not so bad with the Probes though).
I'm planning on going to Indy and would LOVE some feedback on this build. Any feedback is appreciated, but if someone wants to test it or has tested other builds I would really appreciate hearing about it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
What I can't figure out today is, what advantage does Worldgorger.dec have over Tin Fins? They both use Entomb, up to 8 copies of a 2-mana reanimation spell, and Tin Fins wins right there with Griselbrand, whereas Worldgorger requires another card in hand (or graveyard) to either be the win-con or find it.
I think you just answered your own question. That said, Johnny's everywhere are rejoicing. Let them have their day in the sun.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
What I can't figure out today is, what advantage does Worldgorger.dec have over Tin Fins? They both use Entomb, up to 8 copies of a 2-mana reanimation spell, and Tin Fins wins right there with Griselbrand, whereas Worldgorger requires another card in hand (or graveyard) to either be the win-con or find it.
I think you just answered your own question. That said, Johnny's everywhere are rejoicing. Let them have their day in the sun.
Haha, this is ultimately true, but as you can see above, my inner Johnny came out a little bit. If there's any possible advantage, I think it's that you have room for 4x Careful Study and 4x Worldgorger in the Dragon.dec, which you don't really have room for in Tin Fins, leaving you more reliant on Entomb. But I was probably right the first time about their not being any real advantage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
If you win game 1, and open game 2 with swamp, dark rit, entomb, animate dead, do you go to game 3 and force your worst match outcome to be a draw?
Unless a match goes to time, you will continue playing games until one player has two wins. Going 1-1-1 does not end the match.
See, this is what I was afraid of when they unbanned this card.
What is to stop a player, after winning game 1, from doing this game 2.
Play combo on turn 1 or 2 or whenever, without a way to break loop and actually act out every iteration of the loop? Eventually, the game will go to time and that game will end in a draw, leaving no time for game 3.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 oona, queen of the fae
1 sundering titan
4 codex shredder
4 enlightened tutor
4 entomb
4 silence
4 thoughtseize
4 animate dead
4 necromancy
1 dance of the dead
4 temple of silence
3 Piranha Marsh
4 marsh flats
4 scrubland
entomb and enlightened tutor can be the core of the deck, but i need to fill in some spots. i don't think thoughtsieze and silence will be enough protection/disruption.
since it runs enlightened tutor for the enchantments, i figure sundering titan or another artifact creature could be a back up plan.
enlightened tutor is primarily your means of getting to codex shredder.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
The third piece of the combo is anything you can manage. The cleanest kill is Oona, as seen in Vintage, and Pirana Marsh. The Source has even tossed around the idea of splashing Green for Crop Rotation to tutor mid combo for Marsh or, if they gain hexproof, Shivan Gorge. Adding green also makes Abrupt Decay in the side an option.
I really like Crop Rotation plus Nephalia Drownyard or Duskmantle, House of Shadow with both being not only a kill against non Eldrazi decks, but our extremely watered down Bazaar, as both let us you dump cards into our graveyard to hit a second creature to stop the loop. Both also tap for mana, something Codex Shredder does not.
An interesting combo with the mill lands: Animate Dead Snapcaster Mage getting Cunning Wish getting Stroke, Blue Sun, Searing Touch--Hell replace Cunning Wish for Burning Wish and now you have a whole other set of options like Banefire, Bitter Ordeal (!!!!!)...you get the point.
It's just a matter of finding the cleanest and most economic kill. It will take time, but I think with a ton of collective minds behind it, Dragon could be a thing in Legacy.
My first draft, based off of Tin Fins
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Animate Dead
4 Necromancy
4 Entomb
4 Crop Rotation
4 Careful Study
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Daze
1 Cunning Wish
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Shivan Gorge
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Drownyard is another win con and our bad version of Bazaar. This maybe Duskmantle because it's cheaper to activate in case the game gets long. Shivan Gorge is always good game 2 against Leyline.
Cutting green lets us play Brainstom and makes mana better, as the badlands could always be a dual. We can keep Oona and also have access to Read the Runes and maybe even Scholar of Athreos to beat Leyline. Also opens up white splash for permission.
I think a more resilient build could get away with force, but this one seems a bit faat for it. I think Daze is good
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
Enchantments:
4 Animate Dead
4 Dance of the Dead
Sorceries:
4 Careful Study
3 Reanimate
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Read the Runes
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Swamp
This way, you have multiple lines of play. You can Reanimate/Animate Dead a Griselbrand and ride him to victory, or you can Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead a WGD and generate infinite mana. Grisel becomes another good way to break the loop, letting you potentially draw a bunch of cards with infinite mana into Oona/Entomb+a Reanimate for Oona/Read the Runes into Oona
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Now THIS I like. Just might test it out and see how it goes.
Note I threw this list together in like 5 minutes and without looking at existing Reanimator lists, so it's very possible some of these choices are incorrect - it may be better to pack a few Thoughtseize over Dazes, for example, as it's still disruption and can be used as a discard outlet in a pinch.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Although this looks promising...
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Griselbrand
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Animate Dead
4 Necromancy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Daze
3 Read the Runes
2 Piranha Marsh
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
Get Griselbrand plus Animate Dead effect, draw into Dragon plus Runes, combo off, get Oona, kill them. Side into Scholar.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
If you could find some way of giving them haste that would work.
** EDIT ** Flame Kin will work.
Didn't catch the comes into play tapped clause.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
EDIT: You'd also have stop the loop right after making the tokens, because they'd cease to exist if they get exiled by the dragon.
I did end up coming up with a hybrid-ish version that might have some advantages over each.
4x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Oona, Queen of the Fae
Instants: 15
4x Brainstorm
4x Dig Through Time
4x Entomb
4x Dark Ritual
4x Careful Study
4x Ponder
4x Thoughtseize
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Cabal Therapy
Enchantments: 8
4x Animate Dead
4x Dance of the Dead
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Marsh Flats
4x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
This way, you get the speed advantage over traditional reanimator (which is the only reason I can come up with to run Worldgorger), and your advantage over Tin Fins is that less of the overall deck is actually dedicated to going off, so you can run 4 Worldgorger and 4 Careful Study and not rely solely on Entomb as an enabler. This is crucially important too because with this set up, you usually need an Entomb for Oona to win once you're going off. This allows the deck to dedicate only one card to the win-con, not wasting spots on X spells, and I think adds a lot to the consistency.
4x Dig Through Time is an adoption from Omniscience decks. I'm not sure it's better than having some number of Intuitions. Intuition is better mid-combo because you can generally guarantee a win, whereas I've whiffed a few times with DTT mid-combo. But DTT has been a little bit better pre-combo due to its cheaper cost, and being a lot better when you're missing both pieces of the combo. I think that the better pre-combo card is the one to include, since you can always combo out for the draw, whereas if you can't combo off at all you lose.
Another thing I want to test is including maybe a couple of Griselbrands, which make the Careful Studies better. It's hard to fit them in though, since I'm already running less lands than I'd ideally want to (it's not so bad with the Probes though).
I'm planning on going to Indy and would LOVE some feedback on this build. Any feedback is appreciated, but if someone wants to test it or has tested other builds I would really appreciate hearing about it.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I think you just answered your own question. That said, Johnny's everywhere are rejoicing. Let them have their day in the sun.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Haha, this is ultimately true, but as you can see above, my inner Johnny came out a little bit. If there's any possible advantage, I think it's that you have room for 4x Careful Study and 4x Worldgorger in the Dragon.dec, which you don't really have room for in Tin Fins, leaving you more reliant on Entomb. But I was probably right the first time about their not being any real advantage.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
If you win game 1, and open game 2 with swamp, dark rit, entomb, animate dead, do you go to game 3 and force your worst match outcome to be a draw?
e:
Or can you use this game state to force the match to go to time and win 1-0-1?
Unless a match goes to time, you will continue playing games until one player has two wins. Going 1-1-1 does not end the match.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
See, this is what I was afraid of when they unbanned this card.
What is to stop a player, after winning game 1, from doing this game 2.
Play combo on turn 1 or 2 or whenever, without a way to break loop and actually act out every iteration of the loop? Eventually, the game will go to time and that game will end in a draw, leaving no time for game 3.