i need to tow the line between staying G/Gb and just going into Junk Maverick. The desire is bleeding over into Depths, where I am running a trans-formative sideboard that turns the deck into a grindy rock style deck. Hell, I have been using Thrun int he side as well.
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Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
The things that differentiates this deck from Maverick
-chalice/3 sphere/sol land package and instead of Thalia or other assorted hatebears and KOTR "lands" tricks
-tanglewire effects
- less reliance on GSZ (eg inclusion of TKS in my list, but less reliance in general)
- different mana acceleration (technically the same as point 1)
If you find yourself holding back on these then you end up with diluted Maverick.
This deck uses some of Maverick's toolbox, but essentially it is a rock/Mic-Fit grindy deck against most fair decks, but against blue tempo decks or storm decks it plays more like a Stax or Stompy deck.
There is a danger in trying to do do too much, if you look up "Trinichoke" it was a very focused deck on hating out on blue, and worked because it was focused- perhaps it was over focused, but only marginally.
Turbo depths is a good depths deck, and plays Chalice or Sphere type cards in the board, so there is no incompatibility between the cards, but you don't want a deck that does bits of three bits of stuff quite well, you want a deck that does one thing very well, another thing at least reasonably well if not better, otherwise you might as well play Nic-Fit, which can do about 4 things reasonably well without ever doing one thing. I would say if you want Depths in there then use it as the main focus and drop the Maverick toolbox or the Sol land and artifact focus. I don't think fully transformational sideboards work in Legacy, it is one thing to bring a couple of critters into a critterless deck, or to start Decaying Miracle's permanents in Storm, but to suddenly turn into Depths deck seems like a big ask.
Here is my latest revision to this list.
I have been trying to strengthen the list for D N T and Maverick. I have taken a land out as it was genuinely over-landed, and changed another - COT to a Phyrexian Tower. Having the extra Sac outlet is good for Meren shenanigans, who can be nuts with stuff regularly dying and critter etb effects, but in this list can be so-so if the bin is low on critters, as it often is.
The Zuran has gone to a Jitte- with Meren and Titania for GSZ, I found the Zuran/Titania combo was less frequent, as often getting Meren was the better play.
I have added in Trading Post- stay with me here- the Post is nominally a bad card, of course. I have used it in Humility Dutch Stax to great effect- the card effectively doing exactly what that deck needs to do- draw cards from spare copies of artifacts to get to key 'Geddons etc, make 0/1s that turn into 1/1s and trade, gain life vs Burn and Delver Tempo and bring back key artifacts for recursive locks such as Wastelock. I have found it to be invaluable there and have won countless small events with the card being essential at gluing together the deck. Now Trinity style decks do not have exactly the same needs- Tanglewire is no Geddon and so landkill is only a minor part of the strategy, but the ability to make another non green chomping critter is relevant vs Mommy, the ability to sacrifice a dude is relevant for experience counters avoiding Swords and enemy Jitte combat triggers and generally making Meren shenanigans work by getting the right dude into the bin in time for a Meren reanimation. If the game goes grindy it cycles late game Tanglewires/3 spheres into harder critter action, whilst early on it allows pressure to be kept on while Wasting/beating by bringing back those always mildy asymmetric Tanglewires. Finally 4 life and a mana plus a card is not a bad deal when you draw too many Tombs or just race a deck, especially when you run Thragtusk and other life gain sources.
board 2 choke (Euro metas are less blue, I don't play big 100 player plus events that tend towards blue decks, smaller events here tend to be fewer safe choice decks) (miracles, delver decks of all sorts) 2 thoughtseize (generic combo decks that I lack answers to eg show and tell based ones) 1 inquisition of kozilek (both 1cc discard come in with chalice against decks like infect as well as storm, high tide) 4 leyline of the void (reanimator, storm, loam decks like lands) 2 engineered plague (elves, d n t, some delver lists, maverick) 1 warping wail (d n t, show and tell decks) 1 melira, sylvok outcast (infect is quite prevalent- it makes GSZ better and gives them a critter that must be removed) 1 toxic deluge (d n t, maverick, affinity) 1 reverent silence (enchantress and other humility decks)
I should say I am going to spend a month or so looking into removing Tanglewire, so it becomes a Chalice/3sphere deck only, filling the remaining slots with Nic Fit style dudes and recursion. I will also look at including Crucible. It is not that I am unhappy with the deck per se, it is fine, more a question of me wanting to recur landkill effects with cards like Acidic Slime.
The problem is I feel I could just as easily convert the deck to all in red style dragon stompy and would get a better deck, in fact I could also make Nic Fit too and effectively split what this deck is trying to do. What is keeping me in the deck is Titania, who is great, and the deck does just fine and is quite fun too, but simply put when I am playing in paper it is a lot of resources to put into one deck that is "fine" and "quite fun", so what I want to do is what I enjoy doing the most- restricting opposition mana permanently and making the game about management of their resources. It is also what I am best at being a natural prison player.
i sadly gave up. i jammed it as mono green and as a BG blend. BG was obviously better but it ran similar to depths lists that i have been working on. abrupt decay is in fact sweet, as many people know. my main test partner plays miracles. i still have the deck built partially but i have been jamming depths (and vintage more if i am being totally honest). thanks for he help though, i appreciated it.
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No prob. As a mono -G list it simply can't work as well as BG, and even as BG you need a reason to not run other lists.
Depths is a strong list, if you have the cards you are generally better playing established lists anyway. I think the BG list will inevitably end up aping either Turbo depths or Nic Fit/Maverick toolboxes. You have to ask yourself what does the Sol land/Chalice package add over the other decks? In the case of Depths.....not much as Depths does not need to go long often and can pack a lot of discard to clear the way past U decks. Depths has the manipulation + ramp it needs without confusing the issue with Sol lands getting in the way- sure you could theoretically get access to something like TKnot Seer, but why would it need it? All a Sol land Chalice package adds is basically a better G1 vs Storm/High Tide decks as you have more crippling T1 plays. In the case of comparisons with Nic Fit you get the same t1 improvement, but the Sol lands also ramp into mid range value monsters more quickly than Nic Fot, especially if Nic fit fails to find the Explorer.
FWIW my revisions to remove Tanglewire and replace with Eternal Witness/Acidic slime, plus putting in a Crucible and a Volrath's stronghold/Phyrexian Tower have made my deck capable of eradicating manabases completely, and it is now being more like what I intended originally- a Prison heavy mid range strategy.
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Here is a Trinichoke list.
The critter base is very similar to my Trinity list, although my Chokes go into the board. I Would love to Choke main deck, but European metas are way less blue.
Again the black seems to be an essential splash.
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Hello everyone, I play "Mono Green" Devotion in Modern and was looking for a heavy Green list that wasn't Elves, which is where I came across this thread.
How would change my current Modern-legal decklist to fit the Legacy format? You can change as much as you want; I'm intrigued to know what does and doesn't work in the format.
(As a side note, I'm liking the Sylvan Library and Titania, Protector of Argoth that I'm seeing pop up in decklists! I also watch a lot of MTGO Legacy so am familiar with top-tier decks, but have no local scene for the format.)
Short answer- you need to stop things winning t2/3, and thus you need interaction and acceleration.
Interaction in green is limited/non existant- there is an enchantment that prevents Black things attacking for 1 in Enchantress and acts as Ghostly Prison, there are the Elf tricks with Rec Sage and bouncing, DRS can nab dudes from bins, all very limited.
In black you get discard, which is why GB is common.
Outside of that Trinisphere, Wasteland and Chalice [the big ones] plus some mana restricting things like W or S Orb that don't affect many decks, and a couple of artifacts like Ratchet Bomb, and Smokestack that needs building around and is better with other colours. Choke of course.
There was a series of articles on the Legacy format on either SCG or CFB in the last few months, its worth checking out if you are new, IIRC it is by Reid Duke, but don't quote me on that. If you assume any combo deck will win by t3 if left unchecked you would not be far wrong, and simply put your deck does nothing to stop them winning t3.
Combos include Show and Tell, Dark Depths, Elves, Storm decks, Reanimators, Dredge and many others.
Your deck probably needs to go down a Nic Fit type route.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
-chalice/3 sphere/sol land package and instead of Thalia or other assorted hatebears and KOTR "lands" tricks
-tanglewire effects
- less reliance on GSZ (eg inclusion of TKS in my list, but less reliance in general)
- different mana acceleration (technically the same as point 1)
If you find yourself holding back on these then you end up with diluted Maverick.
This deck uses some of Maverick's toolbox, but essentially it is a rock/Mic-Fit grindy deck against most fair decks, but against blue tempo decks or storm decks it plays more like a Stax or Stompy deck.
There is a danger in trying to do do too much, if you look up "Trinichoke" it was a very focused deck on hating out on blue, and worked because it was focused- perhaps it was over focused, but only marginally.
Turbo depths is a good depths deck, and plays Chalice or Sphere type cards in the board, so there is no incompatibility between the cards, but you don't want a deck that does bits of three bits of stuff quite well, you want a deck that does one thing very well, another thing at least reasonably well if not better, otherwise you might as well play Nic-Fit, which can do about 4 things reasonably well without ever doing one thing. I would say if you want Depths in there then use it as the main focus and drop the Maverick toolbox or the Sol land and artifact focus. I don't think fully transformational sideboards work in Legacy, it is one thing to bring a couple of critters into a critterless deck, or to start Decaying Miracle's permanents in Storm, but to suddenly turn into Depths deck seems like a big ask.
I have been trying to strengthen the list for D N T and Maverick. I have taken a land out as it was genuinely over-landed, and changed another - COT to a Phyrexian Tower. Having the extra Sac outlet is good for Meren shenanigans, who can be nuts with stuff regularly dying and critter etb effects, but in this list can be so-so if the bin is low on critters, as it often is.
The Zuran has gone to a Jitte- with Meren and Titania for GSZ, I found the Zuran/Titania combo was less frequent, as often getting Meren was the better play.
I have added in Trading Post- stay with me here- the Post is nominally a bad card, of course. I have used it in Humility Dutch Stax to great effect- the card effectively doing exactly what that deck needs to do- draw cards from spare copies of artifacts to get to key 'Geddons etc, make 0/1s that turn into 1/1s and trade, gain life vs Burn and Delver Tempo and bring back key artifacts for recursive locks such as Wastelock. I have found it to be invaluable there and have won countless small events with the card being essential at gluing together the deck. Now Trinity style decks do not have exactly the same needs- Tanglewire is no Geddon and so landkill is only a minor part of the strategy, but the ability to make another non green chomping critter is relevant vs Mommy, the ability to sacrifice a dude is relevant for experience counters avoiding Swords and enemy Jitte combat triggers and generally making Meren shenanigans work by getting the right dude into the bin in time for a Meren reanimation. If the game goes grindy it cycles late game Tanglewires/3 spheres into harder critter action, whilst early on it allows pressure to be kept on while Wasting/beating by bringing back those always mildy asymmetric Tanglewires. Finally 4 life and a mana plus a card is not a bad deal when you draw too many Tombs or just race a deck, especially when you run Thragtusk and other life gain sources.
4 forest - was five
2 bayou
1 llanowar wastes (for colorless over bayou 3)
1 city of traitors - was two
1 phyrexian tower (-was none)
4 ancient tomb
4 wasteland
1 tower of the magistrate (-for enemy equipments and as another colorless)
1 dryad arbor
2 mox diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte - was Zuran for the Titania combo
2 green sun's zenith
4 abrupt decay
2 sylvan library
4 chalice of the void
4 tanglewire
1 trading post - was a forest
1 death rite shaman (-I know it conflicts with Chalice@1, but I still get 2 GSZ and Meren)
1 scavenging ooze
1 reclamation sage
1 courser of kruphix
4 thought-knot seer
1 meren of clan nel toth - was wall of roots, which was again me being over cautious with mana
2 thragtusk
2 titania, protector of argoth
board
2 choke (Euro metas are less blue, I don't play big 100 player plus events that tend towards blue decks, smaller events here tend to be fewer safe choice decks) (miracles, delver decks of all sorts)
2 thoughtseize (generic combo decks that I lack answers to eg show and tell based ones)
1 inquisition of kozilek (both 1cc discard come in with chalice against decks like infect as well as storm, high tide)
4 leyline of the void (reanimator, storm, loam decks like lands)
2 engineered plague (elves, d n t, some delver lists, maverick)
1 warping wail (d n t, show and tell decks)
1 melira, sylvok outcast (infect is quite prevalent- it makes GSZ better and gives them a critter that must be removed)
1 toxic deluge (d n t, maverick, affinity)
1 reverent silence (enchantress and other humility decks)
The problem is I feel I could just as easily convert the deck to all in red style dragon stompy and would get a better deck, in fact I could also make Nic Fit too and effectively split what this deck is trying to do. What is keeping me in the deck is Titania, who is great, and the deck does just fine and is quite fun too, but simply put when I am playing in paper it is a lot of resources to put into one deck that is "fine" and "quite fun", so what I want to do is what I enjoy doing the most- restricting opposition mana permanently and making the game about management of their resources. It is also what I am best at being a natural prison player.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
Depths is a strong list, if you have the cards you are generally better playing established lists anyway. I think the BG list will inevitably end up aping either Turbo depths or Nic Fit/Maverick toolboxes. You have to ask yourself what does the Sol land/Chalice package add over the other decks? In the case of Depths.....not much as Depths does not need to go long often and can pack a lot of discard to clear the way past U decks. Depths has the manipulation + ramp it needs without confusing the issue with Sol lands getting in the way- sure you could theoretically get access to something like TKnot Seer, but why would it need it? All a Sol land Chalice package adds is basically a better G1 vs Storm/High Tide decks as you have more crippling T1 plays. In the case of comparisons with Nic Fit you get the same t1 improvement, but the Sol lands also ramp into mid range value monsters more quickly than Nic Fot, especially if Nic fit fails to find the Explorer.
FWIW my revisions to remove Tanglewire and replace with Eternal Witness/Acidic slime, plus putting in a Crucible and a Volrath's stronghold/Phyrexian Tower have made my deck capable of eradicating manabases completely, and it is now being more like what I intended originally- a Prison heavy mid range strategy.
Here is a Trinichoke list.
The critter base is very similar to my Trinity list, although my Chokes go into the board. I Would love to Choke main deck, but European metas are way less blue.
Again the black seems to be an essential splash.
How would change my current Modern-legal decklist to fit the Legacy format? You can change as much as you want; I'm intrigued to know what does and doesn't work in the format.
(As a side note, I'm liking the Sylvan Library and Titania, Protector of Argoth that I'm seeing pop up in decklists! I also watch a lot of MTGO Legacy so am familiar with top-tier decks, but have no local scene for the format.)
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Genesis Hydra
4x Courser of Kruphix
3x Eternal Witness
1x Wistful Selkie
1x Vizier of the Menagerie
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Acidic Slime
1x Thragtusk
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
3x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
Sorceries
2x Primal Command
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Steward of Elements
Lands
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
1x Stomping Ground
1x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
7x Forest
1x Seal of Primordium
2x Scavening Ooze
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Kitchen Finks
2x Avalanche Riders
2x Creeping Corrosion
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Hornet Queen
Interaction in green is limited/non existant- there is an enchantment that prevents Black things attacking for 1 in Enchantress and acts as Ghostly Prison, there are the Elf tricks with Rec Sage and bouncing, DRS can nab dudes from bins, all very limited.
In black you get discard, which is why GB is common.
Outside of that Trinisphere, Wasteland and Chalice [the big ones] plus some mana restricting things like W or S Orb that don't affect many decks, and a couple of artifacts like Ratchet Bomb, and Smokestack that needs building around and is better with other colours. Choke of course.
There was a series of articles on the Legacy format on either SCG or CFB in the last few months, its worth checking out if you are new, IIRC it is by Reid Duke, but don't quote me on that. If you assume any combo deck will win by t3 if left unchecked you would not be far wrong, and simply put your deck does nothing to stop them winning t3.
Combos include Show and Tell, Dark Depths, Elves, Storm decks, Reanimators, Dredge and many others.
Your deck probably needs to go down a Nic Fit type route.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord