After playtesting my deck against a friend's, I noticed it wasn't fast enough so I added Nighthawks and Persecutor to keep the opponent on the defensive and last a bit longer myself until I can pump a lot of mana into Consume spirit/Crypt Rats/Nantuko shade.
I was thinking of dropping Necromancy for something else but it just seems to combo so well since I can bring my crypt rats back and smash everyone again...I also like to revive the creatures I forced my opponent to sac or destroyed with damage.
I'm playing both 1v1 and multiplayer but I'm mostly focused on 1v1. What do you guys think I should change?
I actually thought of using Gatekeeper of malakir, but I wasn't sure. What do you think I should remove for those?
Duress on the other hand has nothing to do with my strategy. I know it's very good but It wouldn't help me at all.
Thanks for the help
Unless your strategy is to automatically lose to most decks in the format, targeted discard is part of the strategy of your mono-black deck. You could literally replace ANY 4 cards in your list with Duress or Thoughtseize and end up with a better deck. Hymn to Tourach is a pretty good addition as well.
Make sure you check out that link to The Gate as well. It's basically the competitive-ish result of the road you're headed down here.
I'v checked the guide suggested and I understand exactly what it's trying to do. I updated my deck to include your suggestions as Sideboard since I'm mostly playing for fun with friends. My goal is not to lose, but it's not to copy a world championship strategy either. I want to have fun with my friends without busting the 40$ cards like Thoughtseize.
I'm thinking some removal can be switched for Duress if I notice the opponent has less creatures or has a hard counter. I'v always thought Dark ritual was a must for any mono black deck, what is your opinion on that matter?
I tried to fit in some discard while keeping my original strategy. I removed one consume spirit, one Sign in blood and my dark rituals so that I could have 3 hymn and 3 dur.
I'm hoping those changes will make the deck more stable. It's not like it never won but I felt I was really luck dependent before. I'll be going to the card shop this week so I still have a little while to figure out if I want to change something else.
I updated the deck once more after testing it solo. As I first thought, having discard against creature heavy decks really doesn't help me. On the other hand, if I'm playing a control/burn deck, then it does. I'm definitely using those cards on the sideboard. Thanks for everything!
Well, it depends on what you're planning to play against, as well. If you're going into an actual competitive Legacy metagame, you don't stand a chance without disruption, and discard is your best available disruption.
If you're taking it to the kitchen table, you can likely get away without it. Unless your friends are ********s and bring competitive combo decks or something...
Well, it depends on what you're planning to play against, as well. If you're going into an actual competitive Legacy metagame, you don't stand a chance without disruption, and discard is your best available disruption.
If you're taking it to the kitchen table, you can likely get away without it. Unless your friends are ********s and bring competitive combo decks or something...
Yeah, which is why I added both Duress and Hymn in my SB. My friends don't play combo much but if one of them does play one I can adjust.
Getting rid of Crypt Rats and Consume Spirit and replacing them with anything will make your deck better. Hymn is good even against non-combo decks. If you want a cheap (both in game and in real life) discard spell with versatility (can also be used as removal or an aggro tool) check out Funeral Charm. Otherwise more copies of the other good cards in your deck will also help.
Getting rid of Crypt Rats and Consume Spirit and replacing them with anything will make your deck better. Hymn is good even against non-combo decks. If you want a cheap (both in game and in real life) discard spell with versatility (can also be used as removal or an aggro tool) check out Funeral Charm. Otherwise more copies of the other good cards in your deck will also help.
I was mostly talking about duress when I said it's better against combo decks. I agree that Hymn is pure awesomeness... I'v decided to remove crypt rats. I used to love it since it was my only way to clear weenies and then force the opponent to sacrifice the big ones. With all the changes I made, it's much less useful than it was before.
Although I still disagree on Consume Spirit since I want a finisher and it combo's well with Cabal Coffers/Dark ritual in late game (just like Nantuko Shade).
What do you guys think about Phyrexian Arena? Would it be a better draw engine in this deck?
I was thinking of removing the 4 Sign in Blood to add 3 of those.
I feel I could use the extra draw but the 1 more B makes me wonder if it's worth it...
Phyrexian Arena is a very powerful card. If you decide to run it, I would probably stick the Dark Rituals back in as well.
Yeah, that's exactly what I did hehe.
I made a budget version of the deck and it's fine, but with Phyrexian arena it seems so much better and Dark Ritual is a must for those 1rst turn Arena.
I have pretty much everything I need now aside from the arenas and my sideboard. I'll be ordering them soon, unless I change my mind again.
If you want to play Cabal Coffers, Consume Spirit and Phyrexian Arena (i.e. an actual control deck instead of just monoblack disruption with aggressive creatures and disruptive discard and removal) then just play Trainwreck. You're pretty close already.
I have no idea what Trainwreck would look like in this meta. Maybe something like this:
Turn One ritual into Duress+Hymn is pretty amazing also.
Or a turn one liliana if you get them.
That play used to be backbreaking 10 years ago but it just seems weak now. You lose 3 cards and they lose 3 cards. Sure, Duress takes their best noncreature nonland card, but Hymn hits random ones so you aren't necessarily getting much incremental advantage on card quality over the opponent. It cripples combo but any tempo/aggro deck with balanced card quality is just going to shrug it off and keep going. Dark Rit into Liliana or Phyrexian Arena seems better. IMO you need to Rit into something broken that generates a ton of advantage, otherwise you've just set yourself behind 1 card for minor tempo gain.
I noticed the same thing actually. I think i'd restrain myself from rit + dur + hymn on the first game just in case I'm playing an aggro deck. If I knew the kind of deck the opponent has and it's not aggro, I would do that without looking back tho because the possibility of getting lands on first turn can be crippling.
Now I'm just waiting for lil of the veil to be affordable, although I'm not holding my breath.
The point is the have Ritual > Hymn+duress available. It will not always be your best possible choice, but it *is* a powerful opener. Simply by running dark ritual in the first place you're sacrificing some amount of card advantage for a tempo advantage. Leading Ritual into Duress hymn nullifies that card advantage, along with screwing up the hand that they kept. Don't underestimate the power of that random discard, since it can easily hit lands as well, turning even a good hand into crap. Then you continue on without having your gameplan screwed over, because you picked which of your three cards you spent.
Or you ritual into Arena, Liliana, or whatever else.
Personally, I would go with Smallpox as my ideal turn two followup.
Well, I just added Liliana of the Veil to my MB and Sorin Markov to my SB. I like Sorin but Lil is just so much faster... I guess there could be games where he's a better Planes.
With this setup I have quite a lot of great openings with ritual. I'v playtested and the deck definitely seems solid.
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Vampire Nighthawk
ENCHANTMENTS[3]
3 Phyrexian Arena
INSTANTS[7]
4 Dark Ritual
3 Go for the Throat
3 Consume Spirit
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
Planeswalkers[2]
2 Liliana of the Veil
LANDS[22]
2 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
19 Swamp
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crypt Rats
4 Extirpate
2 Sorin Markov
After playtesting my deck against a friend's, I noticed it wasn't fast enough so I added Nighthawks and Persecutor to keep the opponent on the defensive and last a bit longer myself until I can pump a lot of mana into Consume spirit/Crypt Rats/Nantuko shade.
I was thinking of dropping Necromancy for something else but it just seems to combo so well since I can bring my crypt rats back and smash everyone again...I also like to revive the creatures I forced my opponent to sac or destroyed with damage.
I'm playing both 1v1 and multiplayer but I'm mostly focused on 1v1. What do you guys think I should change?
Legacy: Death and Taxes, U/B Reanimator
Gatekeeper of malakir is also really good.
Duress on the other hand has nothing to do with my strategy. I know it's very good but It wouldn't help me at all.
Thanks for the help
Unless your strategy is to automatically lose to most decks in the format, targeted discard is part of the strategy of your mono-black deck. You could literally replace ANY 4 cards in your list with Duress or Thoughtseize and end up with a better deck. Hymn to Tourach is a pretty good addition as well.
Make sure you check out that link to The Gate as well. It's basically the competitive-ish result of the road you're headed down here.
I'v checked the guide suggested and I understand exactly what it's trying to do. I updated my deck to include your suggestions as Sideboard since I'm mostly playing for fun with friends. My goal is not to lose, but it's not to copy a world championship strategy either. I want to have fun with my friends without busting the 40$ cards like Thoughtseize.
I'm thinking some removal can be switched for Duress if I notice the opponent has less creatures or has a hard counter. I'v always thought Dark ritual was a must for any mono black deck, what is your opinion on that matter?
I'm hoping those changes will make the deck more stable. It's not like it never won but I felt I was really luck dependent before. I'll be going to the card shop this week so I still have a little while to figure out if I want to change something else.
If you're taking it to the kitchen table, you can likely get away without it. Unless your friends are ********s and bring competitive combo decks or something...
Yeah, which is why I added both Duress and Hymn in my SB. My friends don't play combo much but if one of them does play one I can adjust.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
I was mostly talking about duress when I said it's better against combo decks. I agree that Hymn is pure awesomeness... I'v decided to remove crypt rats. I used to love it since it was my only way to clear weenies and then force the opponent to sacrifice the big ones. With all the changes I made, it's much less useful than it was before.
Although I still disagree on Consume Spirit since I want a finisher and it combo's well with Cabal Coffers/Dark ritual in late game (just like Nantuko Shade).
Thanks for all the feedback.
I was thinking of removing the 4 Sign in Blood to add 3 of those.
I feel I could use the extra draw but the 1 more B makes me wonder if it's worth it...
Yeah, that's exactly what I did hehe.
I made a budget version of the deck and it's fine, but with Phyrexian arena it seems so much better and Dark Ritual is a must for those 1rst turn Arena.
I have pretty much everything I need now aside from the arenas and my sideboard. I'll be ordering them soon, unless I change my mind again.
Or a turn one liliana if you get them.
I have no idea what Trainwreck would look like in this meta. Maybe something like this:
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Chainer's Edict
3 Consume Spirit
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
//Planeswalkers: 6
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin Markov
//Lands: 26
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Cabal Coffers
20 Swamp
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Duress
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Damnation
2 Extirpate
Ideally id get 2 racks instead of verdict but itll have to do since the price difference is huge.
That play used to be backbreaking 10 years ago but it just seems weak now. You lose 3 cards and they lose 3 cards. Sure, Duress takes their best noncreature nonland card, but Hymn hits random ones so you aren't necessarily getting much incremental advantage on card quality over the opponent. It cripples combo but any tempo/aggro deck with balanced card quality is just going to shrug it off and keep going. Dark Rit into Liliana or Phyrexian Arena seems better. IMO you need to Rit into something broken that generates a ton of advantage, otherwise you've just set yourself behind 1 card for minor tempo gain.
Now I'm just waiting for lil of the veil to be affordable, although I'm not holding my breath.
Or you ritual into Arena, Liliana, or whatever else.
Personally, I would go with Smallpox as my ideal turn two followup.
With this setup I have quite a lot of great openings with ritual. I'v playtested and the deck definitely seems solid.