MTG Salvation

Second Chance + Riptide Chimera + 5 or less life = infinite turns

Board: Riptide Chimera, Second Chance, the ability to produce at least 3 mana.

Beginning of your upkeep place the Second Chance trigger on the stack. Then place the Riptide Chimera trigger on the stack.

Board: Riptide Chimera, Second Chance, the ability to produce at least 3 mana.
Stack [top to bottom]: 1) Return an Enchantment to your hand. 2) Take an extra turn.

Resolve the Riptide Chimera ability, return Second Chance.

Board: Riptide Chimera, the ability to produce at least 3 mana.
Stack [top to bottom]: 1) Take an extra turn.

Resolve Second Chance's ability that is on the stack. Take an extra turn, since it is no longer on the board you do not have to sacrifice it (post-2010 ruling).

Board: Riptide Chimera, the ability to produce at least 3 mana.

Draw step, then Main phase use the mana to recast Second Chance. Repeat each upkeep for infinite turns. Win condition is attack each turn for 3 flying.

Now that we've covered the general idea, I need a shell to put this into a deck. Some cards I've found that have potential include:
Plunge into Darkness | Lim-Dûl's Vault: These find the second piece of the combo at instant speed and meet the lifeloss requirement.

Shocklands | Fetchlands | City of Brass/Mana Confluence | Glacial Chasm: This land base is not only cheaper, but help enable the life loss.

In an aggro shell: Sarcomancy | Death's Shadow: Sarcomancy is a one drop 2/2 zombie that creates a minor engine with Riptide Chimera. Death's Shadow is an aggro card that also works alongside the life loss theme of the "suicide" deck.

In an enchantress-type shell: Sterling Grove | Elephant Grass | Sylvan Library: Sterling Grove gives both of your combo pieces shroud (your combo doesn't target) and also acts as a tutor. Elephant Grass acts as a propaganda effect, and Riptide can reset it's upkeep cost.

Control elements: Leyline of Sanctity | Toxic Deluge | Thoughtseize | Force of Will | Chalice of the Void: These are all good cards in this deck. Toxic Deluge is a board wipe that enables life loss. Force is a counter to protect your combo, and or stop them from winning also minor lifeloss. Thoughtseize is the best discard, and the lifeloss can help. Leyline helps against burn, discard and other similar effects (also an enchantment so you can play Riptide before Second Chance if your life is too low).

Accelerants: Ancient Tomb, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal: These work well on a Chalice (on one) strategy. Going Grixis let's you use Blood Moon as well.

I hope you guys are interested, and willing to start brewing with me.

Here is a starter point:




I've hit a big plateau in brewing decks where this combo could fit. I'm extremely interested in what you guys can come up with. I'd really like to see if an aggro version could exist as I never really looked to far into it (but really liked Sarcomancy). A friend of mine suggested counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top as well for more ideas. In Esper we thought about Energy Field and Rest in Peace as well.

I don't think this works, does it? You can't sacrifice the Second wind, getting the extra turn, and return it to your hand (from play, not from the graveyard). You'll only be able to do one or the other. Maybe there is something I'm missing.

Apparently, it does work. From the gatherer rulings:

6/15/2010 On resolution of the trigger you have to sacrifice this card if you have 5 life or less. If you can't (because it is not on the battlefield, for example), then you still take an extra turn after this one.

Wow. I should have consulted the oracle :shrug:. I like the idea of using it in a bant enchantress deck, although that deck does not have an abundance of ways to reliably get down to 5 life. That deck though will already likely win if it could get to the point of dropping both of these cards into play.

Cool. You own?

Quote from Thunderpig »

Wow. I should have consulted the oracle :shrug:. I like the idea of using it in a bant enchantress deck, although that deck does not have an abundance of ways to reliably get down to 5 life. That deck though will already likely win if it could get to the point of dropping both of these cards into play.

Sylvan Library can blast your life down pretty quick, but is controllable so it won't kill you.

So Riptide Chimera, Second Chance, Sylvan Library, Sterling Grove, Elephant Grass, Rest in Peace, one of Helm of Obedience, Energy Field, Enlightened Tutor, Brainstorm, possible Sensei's Divining Top and Counterbalance?

Does this seem like you could brew out of this? Add in some play an enchantment draw a card abilities? With a life loss land base in conjunction with Library the 5 life shouldn't be too hard. The opponent usually helps with it as well.

Actually bant sounds great, you can run Argothian Enchantress for a draw engine. Essentially just enchantress with an infinite turn combo sounds great. Academy rector seems like a good include, or possibly Enlightened Tutor to go more of a toolbox route.

Going to need something against aggro Elephant Grass
Use shroud (Chimera doesn't target?!) Greater Auramancy, Sterling Grove

Seems like an awesome homebrew. Might actually proxy up some things and get back to this

Quote from theonecalledrune »

Actually bant sounds great, you can run Argothian Enchantress for a draw engine. Essentially just enchantress with an infinite turn combo sounds great. Academy rector seems like a good include, or possibly Enlightened Tutor to go more of a toolbox route.

Going to need something against aggro Elephant Grass
Use shroud (Chimera doesn't target?!) Greater Auramancy, Sterling Grove

Seems like an awesome homebrew. Might actually proxy up some things and get back to this

Glacial Chasm is another Elephant Grass style "please don't kill me" card, that also enables life loss.

This next idea has a 99% chance of being jank, but Lost Auramancers and Hex Parasite works. Cast Auramancers, omnomnom the counters off, find the either of the combo pieces you are missing, then continually pay 2 life to remove 0 counters from any permanent at instant speed to get 5 or less life. (this is probably absolutely terrible, but it does exist in a similar vein to Academy Rector)

could run bug with disruption, veteran explorer and cabal therapy put you at 3 lands fast while removing the answers in their hand. Meanwhile fetch into shock into thoughtsieze does good for life loss. Gitaxian Probe would help make sure therapy never misses and replaces itself.

The jank in me wants to infinite turn into Form of the Dragon for the win.

After testing some really janky builds I think Glacial Chasm is a real card for this combo. It keeps you from losing in a lot of matchups, and gives you the lifeloss of 0, 2, 6, or 12. With any lifeloss lands that makes you able to practically chose your lifetotal. I don't know if discard or counters is better for protection, or what kind of shell is best. Stalling the game while managing your life, then changing gears and taking all the turns is powerful though.

I think I'll start proxy testing an enchantment control list kinda like the following.

why not run it as a SnT variant? you could go UB to satisfy the life requirement with lim-duls and griselbrand but it might end up becoming just tinfins i guess.

I feel like starting with Gitaxian probe is a good idea. Easy life loss, lets you see what your opponent is doing and how to play around them. Then you just brainstorm yourself into position and deflect things until ready.

I agree that Lim-Dul's Vault is a good idea.

How about Death Wish?

What I would run.

Any excuse I can find to use Death Wish really.

why not just use something like Academy Rector? Sure it might be a pain to find something to sacrifice Rector, but you get it in, you can even get Form of the Dragon. And Enlightened tutor helps.

Quote from tescrin »

I feel like starting with Gitaxian probe is a good idea. Easy life loss, lets you see what your opponent is doing and how to play around them. Then you just brainstorm yourself into position and deflect things until ready.

I agree that Lim-Dul's Vault is a good idea.

Yeah Probe seems clutch, even more so if you are using Cabal Therapy (which seems critical for a Academy Rector build.

Quote from socketto »

why not run it as a SnT variant? you could go UB to satisfy the life requirement with lim-duls and griselbrand but it might end up becoming just tinfins i guess.

In that sort of reanimater sort of idea, what about Gifts Ungiven

• Gifts Ungiven
  
• Intuition
  
• Sun Titan
  
• Griselbrand
  
• Unburial Rites
  
• Supreme Verdict
  
• Toxic Deluge
  
• Wrath of God
  
• Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
  
• Nameless Inversion

Piles:

• Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
  
• Nameless Inversion

Endless Removal

• Griselbrand
  
• Unburial Rites

Griselbrand into play

• Sun Titan
  
• Unburial Rites

Sun Titan into play (if combo piece in graveyard, recur it. Add combo pieces to pile if 6 mana is accessible.

• Supreme Verdict
  
• Toxic Deluge
  
• Wrath of God

Get a wrath effect into hand.

Quote from WITCHxBURNER »

How about Death Wish?

Death Wish, and other wishes/tutors are pretty cool in a gifts package too as the opponent has a very hard time evaluating piles. Death's Wish almost works like a Doomsday in this deck idea, I like it.

In that sort of reanimater sort of idea, what about Gifts Ungiven

• Gifts Ungiven
  
• Intuition
  
• Sun Titan
  
• Griselbrand
  
• Unburial Rites
  
• Supreme Verdict
  
• Toxic Deluge
  
• Wrath of God
  
• Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
  
• Nameless Inversion

Piles:

• Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
  
• Nameless Inversion

Endless Removal

• Griselbrand
  
• Unburial Rites

Griselbrand into play

• Sun Titan
  
• Unburial Rites

Sun Titan into play (if combo piece in graveyard, recur it. Add combo pieces to pile if 6 mana is accessible.

• Supreme Verdict
  
• Toxic Deluge
  
• Wrath of God

Get a wrath effect into hand.

Quote from WITCHxBURNER »

How about Death Wish?

Death Wish, and other wishes/tutors are pretty cool in a gifts package too as the opponent has a very hard time evaluating piles. Death's Wish almost works like a Doomsday in this deck idea, I like it.

I agree. Toxic Deluge is amazing in this deck. You could even go more agro and run a couple Bitterblosm. Or just lock the board up with Contamination+Bitterblosm if you're going to run a Reanimate package. I really think this deck could have potential and tons of answers for a lot of the meta.

Quote from WITCHxBURNER »

I agree. Toxic Deluge is amazing in this deck. You could even go more agro and run a couple Bitterblosm. Or just lock the board up with Contamination+Bitterblosm if you're going to run a Reanimate package. I really think this deck could have potential and tons of answers for a lot of the meta.

When we started jamming this into random shells, we had Bitterblossom all the time. Then we ran into a issue:


Bitterblossom, Second Chance, and Riptide Chimera in play.

5 life.
Enter Upkeep phase.

Now you have only a few turns to either win the game or find another out to remove your Bitterblossom. The Riptide bounces the Second Chance, and if it bounces the Bitterblossom you end your lock. Bitterblossom is awesome, but it has danger in this deck as it legitimately can kill you once you take all the turns.

Quote from inked »

Quote from WITCHxBURNER »

I agree. Toxic Deluge is amazing in this deck. You could even go more agro and run a couple Bitterblosm. Or just lock the board up with Contamination+Bitterblosm if you're going to run a Reanimate package. I really think this deck could have potential and tons of answers for a lot of the meta.

When we started jamming this into random shells, we had Bitterblossom all the time. Then we ran into a issue:


Bitterblossom, Second Chance, and Riptide Chimera in play.

5 life.
Enter Upkeep phase.

Now you have only a few turns to either win the game or find another out to remove your Bitterblossom. The Riptide bounces the Second Chance, and if it bounces the Bitterblossom you end your lock. Bitterblossom is awesome, but it has danger in this deck as it legitimately can kill you once you take all the turns.

Makes sense. You could bounce it but that would require another chimera or another second chance...

would spellskite or other phyrexian mana cards be worth looking at since were trying to get down to ~5?

This is a 4 color control list I've been fiddling with.

Quote from Viserdes »

would spellskite or other phyrexian mana cards be worth looking at since were trying to get down to ~5?

Yeah, it all depends on what shell you are going for. Phyrexian mana has huge potential, and I think if Mental Misstep was still legal that would be the first auto-include. Spellskite helps against Abrupt Decay and removal (and burn matchup). Gitaxian Probe is one of the better cantrips. Dismember is decent to good removal.

Other non-Phyrexian mana life outlets are Glacial Chasm, Force of Will, Sylvan Library, Toxic Deluge, Fetchlands, Shocklands (Crop Rotation [Shock, Rotate, Shock again for 4 life loss]), Mana Confluence / City of Brass, Plunge into Darkness, Lim-Dûl's Vault, Thoughtseize, Death Wish, Grim Tutor, Cruel Tutor, Sarcomancy, Bitterblossom, there are tons of options.

Because there are so many options you should find the goal of your deck, then find the life loss cards that help your overall strategy so they fill multiple roles.

One of the biggest problems I can see with this combo is that it requires both cards to be on the board and survive an opponent taking a turn. Obviously, we're attempting to mitigate that danger with our own counter spells, but it still seems dangerous to me. Unfortunately, the only way I can think of to bypass it is with extra turn cards, and most of those are costed right out of playability. One that interested me was Savor the Moment, but there's a number of problems I can think of with how to utilize it, since you have to be able to recast Second Chance on the turn you get off Savor.

If I may jump in here, I've been coming back to this thread for a little bit now, and I constructed a UB version of the deck. It runs Death Wish to essentially have 7 copies of each combo piece, and a win condition would be attacking with the Chimera a bunch or team bashing with a huge Death's Shadow. This deck is pretty weak to Abrupt Decay, but a good ol' Misdirection can easily take care of that. The landbase could also be a little questionable, but it helps lose enough life to be in Fateful Hour range. Here's the decklist:



I think the Sideboard needs some work, but other than that it consistently gets T4-T5 infinite turns. Maybe too slow for competitive play, but it's really fun to pilot, since you have a lot of answers to things, both in the main deck and the Sideboard/Wishboard. Plus the Chimera doesn't die to Bolt! Whaddya think?

(Sorry for kinda necro-ing a 9 day old thread, btw!)

Solitary Confinement would be great with this to skip the discard and keep drawing, but it ties up 3 mana each turn. I almost think it would be best in an Esper Shell.