Well to make it the most competitive possible its better to just copy some stuff from the best monowhite deck around. Death and taxes win against so many deck with just thalia and rishadan port! This 2 toghetar crush any deck any time, but alone by thenselves they are also powerfull. Here's a list that could be good:
4 mother of runes
4 student of warfare
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 phyrexian revoker
4 knight exemplar
3 mirran crusader
1 mangara of corondor
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 spear of heliod
1 gift of immortality
3 armageddon
1 umezawa's jitte
This deck is a more agressive version of death and taxes. Trust me, this works so well and have exemplar + gift of imortality, forget about stoneforge because it is to slow for agroo deck. The meta is full with griselbrands, with this deck you have about 10 cards to deal with him.
Plus now you can have land tax if you want how about a try? Try this list first, beat all your oponents and thank me later
Honestly, this seems more like a Death and Taxes build with Knights in it than a Knights deck. You've got all of 11 Knights in the deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
Well to make it the most competitive possible its better to just copy some stuff from the best monowhite deck around. Death and taxes win against so many deck with just thalia and rishadan port! This 2 toghetar crush any deck any time, but alone by thenselves they are also powerfull. Here's a list that could be good:
4 mother of runes
4 student of warfare
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 phyrexian revoker
4 knight exemplar
3 mirran crusader
1 mangara of corondor
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 spear of heliod
1 gift of immortality
3 armageddon
1 umezawa's jitte
This deck is a more agressive version of death and taxes. Trust me, this works so well and have exemplar + gift of imortality, forget about stoneforge because it is to slow for agroo deck. The meta is full with griselbrands, with this deck you have about 10 cards to deal with him.
Plus now you can have land tax if you want how about a try? Try this list first, beat all your oponents and thank me later
Actually I agree with Sliver Swarm Queen :nod:...there is not enough Knight creatures to justify playing Knight Exemplar anymore..
Could you share with us some of the matchups you had with this deck? I think Knight Exemplar's effectiveness is diminished in this decklist. The decklist looks good maybe against Show and Tell Griselbrand, Reanimator or combo decks but probably not against American Delver, Canadian Threshold type of decks.
Yes death and taxes beat almost any deck right now and is white. But death and taxes is a control deck!! It does not win by playing many threats. But this list is a agroo version of it. I love knights but lets be honest, only these 3: exemplar, mirran and student are a little close to be competitive. This list uses the old armageddon win con. I think that if you really must play more knights you can replace revoker with holy nimbus. And play more spears of heliod to make then bigger one more gift maybe and one single enlightned tutor. Cut 2 revoker and add 2 knight of holy nimbus, one mother of runes and add a spear of heliod, mangara of corondor and add another gift of imortality and finally cut one vial or armageddon to add enlightned tutor. You need 2 revoker at list, you cant be a victim of lilianas, griselbrands and sneak atacks forever. Against RUG delver you win with rishadan port + thalia and vial as well.
Well ok here is another list that i will try with more knights in it. Isntead of armageddon it uses sinkhole, while is not a auto win it is a good spell anyway and does not hurt you when it is countered.
3 mox diamond
1 land tax
4 sinkhole
4 swords to plowshares
4 hymn to tourach
3 mother of runes
4 knight of meadowgrain
4 knight exemplar
4 mirran crusader
4 student of warfare
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 vindicate
2 liliana of the veil
1 spear of heliod
if you dont want to use sinkholes just exchange it for vindicate what cost one more and deal with more stuff. If you dont want to play thalia you have to mess with the oponent manabase anyway with sinkholes. this list might be more fun to play but i still think that thalia + rishadan port is an better and more consistent idea. Also spear of heliod seems awesome since it make your knights bigger and also destroy creatures
Yes death and taxes beat almost any deck right now and is white. But death and taxes is a control deck!! It does not win by playing many threats. But this list is a agroo version of it. I love knights but lets be honest, only these 3: exemplar, mirran and student are a little close to be competitive. This list uses the old armageddon win con. I think that if you really must play more knights you can replace revoker with holy nimbus. And play more spears of heliod to make then bigger one more gift maybe and one single enlightned tutor. Cut 2 revoker and add 2 knight of holy nimbus, one mother of runes and add a spear of heliod, mangara of corondor and add another gift of imortality and finally cut one vial or armageddon to add enlightned tutor. You need 2 revoker at list, you cant be a victim of lilianas, griselbrands and sneak atacks forever. Against RUG delver you win with rishadan port + thalia and vial as well.
Yes, Death and Taxes is pretty good in the meta recently, I see more and more players in my meta playing them recently :nod:. Can't deny that at the moment Knights are not exactly competitive :-/...
Phyrexian Revoker has it usefulness, and it is a good hoser against some strategies (in spite of the always used easily removed creature argument :rolleyes:), with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben they pack a serious combination here :thumbsup:.
But do take note the lesser knights you play, the less effective Knight Exemplar becomes :(.
Well ok here is another list that i will try with more knights in it. Isntead of armageddon it uses sinkhole, while is not a auto win it is a good spell anyway and does not hurt you when it is countered.
if you dont want to use sinkholes just exchange it for vindicate what cost one more and deal with more stuff. If you dont want to play thalia you have to mess with the oponent manabase anyway with sinkholes. this list might be more fun to play but i still think that thalia + rishadan port is an better and more consistent idea. Also spear of heliod seems awesome since it make your knights bigger and also destroy creatures
I added Deck tags to your decklist above ;). I ever played a BW knights list before, utilizing Dark Confidant. I also like using Mox Diamond and Tithe combination in my former list. With so many BB and WW spells the manabase is a nightmare so Mox Diamond and Tithe helps a lot towards it. Personally I felt Sinkhole is pretty redundant here, many legacy decks can play around losing one land easily. And you also have the difficult choice of casting either Hymn to Tourach or Sinkhole during the second turn - Hymn is usually a better choice IMO.
I changed the list sinkholes were doing nothing here, just traded for inquisitions and thoughtsiezes. Land tax is far superior than tithe I guess and its tutorable. I am runing urborg tomb of yawgmoth to fix mana better as well.
Fiendslayer Paladin1WW
Creature - Human Knight
First strike, lifelink
Fiendslayer Paladin can't be the target of black or red spells your opponents control.
Illus. Wesley Burt #18/249 2/2
Any chance it will have any impact in Legacy Knights ;)?
I think it has potential in certain BW lists alongside Dark Confidant for example. It can be a huge risk to run Bob in a list heavy on 3-drops (Knight Exemplar, Mirran, if you're splashing black maybe Haakon, etc) and with very few reliable ways to gain life back - you can run Meadowgrain but they'll likely just remove it, whereas this Fiendslayer evades a lot of the common removal, and the stuff it doesn't evade (white) is generally played in the matchups where your life total means the least. It's unfortunate he's a 3 drop and not a 2-drop, hell they should have made him a 2/1 body and cost 2cc and it would have been a lot more insane, but regardless I think it's not awful in certain decks.
I changed the list sinkholes were doing nothing here, just traded for inquisitions and thoughtsiezes. Land tax is far superior than tithe I guess and its tutorable. I am runing urborg tomb of yawgmoth to fix mana better as well.
Yup, I felt Sinkhole didn't do much to stop them from casting their spells. With the abundant of 1 and 2 drop spells in Legacy I felt the Sinkhole/ Wasteland package didn't do enough. They could quickly drop a Goyf or Confidant/ Delver which I couldn't deal with and it would be curtains. That's why I would rather run the hand discard or even removal in Sinkhole space.
I still prefer Tithe because I could use it immediately or EOT and get a land drop on the same turn . We pretty much need to use Land Tax only once, and Tithe does almost the same thing.
I think it has potential in certain BW lists alongside Dark Confidant for example. It can be a huge risk to run Bob in a list heavy on 3-drops (Knight Exemplar, Mirran, if you're splashing black maybe Haakon, etc) and with very few reliable ways to gain life back - you can run Meadowgrain but they'll likely just remove it, whereas this Fiendslayer evades a lot of the common removal, and the stuff it doesn't evade (white) is generally played in the matchups where your life total means the least. It's unfortunate he's a 3 drop and not a 2-drop, hell they should have made him a 2/1 body and cost 2cc and it would have been a lot more insane, but regardless I think it's not awful in certain decks.
Yes, I was thinking the same way, Knight of Meadowgrain almost always get removed against tempo deck thus failing to even help us get a single lifelink attack through. Fiendslayer Paladin is able to survive against more removal spells, and in Haakon decks with Dark Confidant he certainly fits into the general scheme of things. Like you mentioned, too bad he is 3cc, although being 2cc might probably made him too powerful, especially since he was designed with the standard format in mind. To be honest, a 2cc Fiendslayer Paladin might not even make the cut into every legacy deck, that's the power level and efficiency of legacy decks :-/.
I've been playing Mono-White Knights for a couple of months now. The first time was at a SCG IQ and I came in 8th, loosing to Storm. Here is the old list with some modifications that have been made.
Creatures:
Knight Exemplar x4
Student x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Paladin en-Vec x2
Thalia x2
Knight of the White Orchid x3
Hero x1 (mother of runes)
Kinsbaile x1 (mother of runes)
Spells:
Brave the Elements x4
PtE x4
StPs x3
*** x1
I'm just getting into playing Legacy and really like this deck. A friend helped me out on the tunning of this deck. Thinking of putting the KoM in here and the only place I can see it going is in the en-Vec slot. Most of the meta that saw were: Storm, Merfolk, UR Delver, Reanimater, and some others I didn't recognize. The en-Vec helped out because of all the Red and Black that was here. I dont have MoR unless my friends aren't playing them. Brave the Elements was a huge factor in getting me to the top 8 and then lost to Storm. Most of the time I took out the Elspeths and I will probably end up taking out the ***. Wrath helped out a couple of times but not as much. Some of the harder matches I had were Storm and Reanimater, UR Delver. I had forgotten about the KoM and I didn't really care for HoBh or KbC they normally got taken out. We had talked bout the Stone Forge in here but I didn't think it really belonged and after reading some of the posts I may end up putting them in here. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
I've been playing Mono-White Knights for a couple of months now. The first time was at a SCG IQ and I came in 8th, loosing to Storm. Here is the old list with some modifications that have been made.
Creatures:
Knight Exemplar x4
Student x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Paladin en-Vec x2
Thalia x2
Knight of the White Orchid x3
Hero x1 (mother of runes)
Kinsbaile x1 (mother of runes)
Spells:
Brave the Elements x4
PtE x4
StPs x3
*** x1
I'm just getting into playing Legacy and really like this deck. A friend helped me out on the tunning of this deck. Thinking of putting the KoM in here and the only place I can see it going is in the en-Vec slot. Most of the meta that saw were: Storm, Merfolk, UR Delver, Reanimater, and some others I didn't recognize. The en-Vec helped out because of all the Red and Black that was here. I dont have MoR unless my friends aren't playing them. Brave the Elements was a huge factor in getting me to the top 8 and then lost to Storm. Most of the time I took out the Elspeths and I will probably end up taking out the ***. Wrath helped out a couple of times but not as much. Some of the harder matches I had were Storm and Reanimater, UR Delver. I had forgotten about the KoM and I didn't really care for HoBh or KbC they normally got taken out. We had talked bout the Stone Forge in here but I didn't think it really belonged and after reading some of the posts I may end up putting them in here. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
I put it into deck tags for you for easier viewing:
I think I noticed was the high amount of removals. Do you need to maindeck so many considering we are a creature deck ourself? If flyers are a problem we have Leonin Skyhunter (although admittedly he is not a powerhouse but he could increase the creature count). There's only 20 creatures in the deck and you play Vial too. Seems like too little for threat density in my opinion. That said, you did a very good job to get all the way to top 8, Knights FTW!!!
Thanks Nabbydain. I usually ended up taking out the *** n most games and I had thought about Skyhunter but went against it. I do have alot of removal in there for sure. At present I've put it to the side and have started trying to build a Isochron Scepter deck with Counterbalance, Orim's Chant, Counter Spell in it. It was originally UWR but I took the red out of it and added Terminus and Entreat to it. So now it looks like a Miracles deck. I gota fine tune it before tomorrow so I can play it at a SCG event here in TN. I didn't know how to put the creatures and stuff in there like u did. Thanks for that tho.
I've been playing Mono-White Knights for a couple of months now. The first time was at a SCG IQ and I came in 8th, loosing to Storm. Here is the old list with some modifications that have been made.
Creatures:
Knight Exemplar x4
Student x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Paladin en-Vec x2
Thalia x2
Knight of the White Orchid x3
Hero x1 (mother of runes)
Kinsbaile x1 (mother of runes)
Spells:
Brave the Elements x4
PtE x4
StPs x3
*** x1
I'm just getting into playing Legacy and really like this deck. A friend helped me out on the tunning of this deck. Thinking of putting the KoM in here and the only place I can see it going is in the en-Vec slot. Most of the meta that saw were: Storm, Merfolk, UR Delver, Reanimater, and some others I didn't recognize. The en-Vec helped out because of all the Red and Black that was here. I dont have MoR unless my friends aren't playing them. Brave the Elements was a huge factor in getting me to the top 8 and then lost to Storm. Most of the time I took out the Elspeths and I will probably end up taking out the ***. Wrath helped out a couple of times but not as much. Some of the harder matches I had were Storm and Reanimater, UR Delver. I had forgotten about the KoM and I didn't really care for HoBh or KbC they normally got taken out. We had talked bout the Stone Forge in here but I didn't think it really belonged and after reading some of the posts I may end up putting them in here. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
What point does the mox diamond serve? Are you splashing a color?
¿What do you think of it? I'm missing some equipment, as I'm not using vindicate, but it should manage well...
¿Do you agree with tribal knight decks being not competitive?
As far as I know, getting creatures from graveyard (with Haakon in play) using Aether vial isn't legal, right?
Cheers =).
You have pretty much got the essentials in your decklist, such as Buried Alive and Nameless Inversion to complement Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. There are also enough lands providing both BW in order not to get screwed out of B. I would suggest playing some Cavern of Souls too (countermagic is a big deal in Legacy). Granted you can't use Cavern for black spells but I think the BB required by Haakon is the key here and he is the only spell requiring double black mana (I would come to Phyrexian Arena later).
There are too many 3cc spells in the deck, what with Knight Exemplar, Fiendslayer paladin, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive. To an extent, I feel both Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive can serve the same purpose - Card Advantage. So we should play either one but not both as it slows the deck down considerably. If you prefer Arena then you should run Entomb. Otherwise, Buried Alive and Haakon provide massive card advantage/ & fuel but if combined with Arena it makes the deck too clunky. I would drop some Kinsbaile Cavalier to reduce the mana curve too. Stillmoon Cavalier could be a potential replacement too (although it is another 3-drop lol.)
Can't really expect Tribal Knight decks to be competitive, but they are fun to play with !
You can only play creature spells with Aether Vial via your hand.
You have pretty much got the essentials in your decklist, such as Buried Alive and Nameless Inversion to complement Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. There are also enough lands providing both BW in order not to get screwed out of B. I would suggest playing some Cavern of Souls too (countermagic is a big deal in Legacy). Granted you can't use Cavern for black spells but I think the BB required by Haakon is the key here and he is the only spell requiring double black mana (I would come to Phyrexian Arena later).
There are too many 3cc spells in the deck, what with Knight Exemplar, Fiendslayer paladin, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive. To an extent, I feel both Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive can serve the same purpose - Card Advantage. So we should play either one but not both as it slows the deck down considerably. If you prefer Arena then you should run Entomb. Otherwise, Buried Alive and Haakon provide massive card advantage/ & fuel but if combined with Arena it makes the deck too clunky. I would drop some Kinsbaile Cavalier to reduce the mana curve too. Stillmoon Cavalier could be a potential replacement too (although it is another 3-drop lol.)
Can't really expect Tribal Knight decks to be competitive, but they are fun to play with !
You can only play creature spells with Aether Vial via your hand.
Heeey, I can't tell you how glad I am since I did not just receive some help, but I also did receive it from the topic creator. Cool, cool cool cool!
First of all I must say I have been making changes, buying some new cards and putting some efforts to get the best from my knights, trying different things like bouncing lands with knight of the white orchid (which sometimes was really awesome, but other times it proved to be only a liability), adding Hymn to tourach, but most of the time trying to get a nice balance between deffensive and aggresive cards.
And that's the whole thing... the mana curve worries me, though, eight cards with 4 cmc, plus the batterskull and the swords, could easily wreck down a game, but with the same luck (in a good way, of course), any knight with a kinsbaile in game (even the very same kinsbaile), elspeth and sword or exemplar would be devastating, mum could make the arrangements to make the creature unblockable.
Anyway I'm still experimenting and willing to share my thoughts, so please, lets give life to this thread again!
Yes, the mana curve is still too high, but at least it has improved since the previous list!
You probably don't need to play multiple copies of Batterskull and Sword of Fire and Ice, first of all, if you want to increase your chances of drawing these equipments, that's what Stoneforge Mystic are for. Also, Aether Vial should be a 4-off, because it is the card that you absolutely want to have in your opening hand every game.
3x Kinsbaile Cavalier and 3x Hero of Bladehold is also too high on the creature curve. Personally it would have been too slow in my meta so I would at the very least drop the Hero completely. Btw, Wilt-Leaf Liege is also a good knight you could consider, although it is another 4-drop lolz .
Amazing primer. Thanks for the years of work on here. Ive been playing mono-white knights for quite a while now. I was wondering if anyone has come up with a good way to beat RDW. I find against most decks in my meta im strong against but RDW seems to get my number and prevent me from getting the 4-0 ive been looking for. Any suggestions?
Amazing primer. Thanks for the years of work on here. Ive been playing mono-white knights for quite a while now. I was wondering if anyone has come up with a good way to beat RDW. I find against most decks in my meta im strong against but RDW seems to get my number and prevent me from getting the 4-0 ive been looking for. Any suggestions?
Is it possible this deck could run off a stompy manabase, with city of traitors and ancient tomb? It changes the deck a lot fundamentaly, but we could power out the high-curve creatures and some hate pieces much earlier.
Is it possible this deck could run off a stompy manabase, with city of traitors and ancient tomb? It changes the deck a lot fundamentaly, but we could power out the high-curve creatures and some hate pieces much earlier.
Very difficult it seems, the better knights mostly have WW in their casting cost. Even the black knights are BB most of time.
Well I've changed my original mono-white list around and wanted to hear any suggestions that you all have about it. There are some cards that I'm kinda on the fence about that people have suggested.
Creatures 21
Student of Warfare x3
Knight Exemplar x4
KotWO x3
Knight of Meadowgrain x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Mother of Runes x2
Leonin Arbiter x2 (not sure on this)
Spells 10
PtE x3
StP x3
Brave the Elements x4
Artifacts 10
Spear of Heliod x2
Aether Vial x4
Mox Diamond x4
Planeswalkers 3
Elspeth, Knight-Errant x2
Ajani, Caller of the Pride x1
Land 16
Marsh Flats x3
Cavern of Souls x3
Plains x10
Side
Rest in Peace x2
Ethersworn Canonist x2
Leyline of Sanctity x2
Pithing Needle x2 (not sure on)
Grafdiggers Cage x2
Thalia x2
Marrow Shards x2
Silence x3
Well I've changed my original mono-white list around and wanted to hear any suggestions that you all have about it. There are some cards that I'm kinda on the fence about that people have suggested.
I see that you are not sure about Leonin Arbiter, personally I would just go all 4x Mother of Runes instead of splitting them in 2, Leonin Arbiter is not a bad card, but it simply doesn't do enough in a Knights deck compared to what it does in Hatebears especially in Modern when it is amazing with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile. Here in legacy no one even plays Ghost Quarter and PtE to begin with. I noticed you have 3 PtE in the decklist, why not just go 4x Swords to Plowshares and 2x PtE combination since you might not have the Arbiter/PtE synergy anymore if you leave Arbiter out.
I also don't think 16 lands is enough, even with Mox Diamond and Aether Vial around. You need to pitch lands to Mox Diamond which would reduce your chances of drawing more lands. If you still wishes to have Mox Diamond and run low on lands, you should play a full set of Knight of the White Orchid, also, 21 creatures for Vial is not an optimal number, if possible, more creatures would be better, there seems to be too many spells and not enough creatures to use Aether Vial effectively.
Really like the idea of UW Knights. Has there been any thought to adding Adaptive Automaton(additional lord effect), Phantasmal Image (similar to Fish and additional lord effect),Mutavault (sudo knight)? Thanks!
Really like the idea of UW Knights. Has there been any thought to adding Adaptive Automaton(additional lord effect), Phantasmal Image (similar to Fish and additional lord effect),Mutavault (sudo knight)? Thanks!
The knight I like most in a UW list is Court Hussar, card advantage in knights are almost unheard of so I really like what Court Hussar brought to the table. RTR also brought a few UW knights such as Lyev skyknight which might be useful. I think Phantasmal Image and Mutavault is definitely worth considering but not so much on Adaptive Automation - it is another 3cc which we are trying to cut down on considering so many of the better knights are 3cc, and it does not provide anything else other than an anthem effect.
has anyone running this list thought of using Steward of Valeron?
Hes a knight, a mana dork and a bear with vigilance. He carries equipment incredibly well and can accelerate into a big drop earlier as well as fitting the tribe. At least this is my reasoning as to why he may be runnable in a G/W knights list.
what do you think of him?
has anyone running this list thought of using Steward of Valeron?
Hes a knight, a mana dork and a bear with vigilance. He carries equipment incredibly well and can accelerate into a big drop earlier as well as fitting the tribe. At least this is my reasoning as to why he may be runnable in a G/W knights list.
what do you think of him?
Honestly I did thought of playing Steward of Valeron at some stage, I like that he can help us to power out the 4 drops such as Wilt-leaf Liege or Elspeth, Knight-Errant, I'm just not sure if at the later part of the game whether he would be as useful, since mana dorks are of not much use as the game goes along. I think for Knights deck that has an heavier curve can actually relies on Steward and Knight of the White Orchid, while a more weenie knights deck probably would prefer to use those knights with combative or protection skills in Steward position.
Honestly, this seems more like a Death and Taxes build with Knights in it than a Knights deck. You've got all of 11 Knights in the deck.
Actually I agree with Sliver Swarm Queen :nod:...there is not enough Knight creatures to justify playing Knight Exemplar anymore..
Could you share with us some of the matchups you had with this deck? I think Knight Exemplar's effectiveness is diminished in this decklist. The decklist looks good maybe against Show and Tell Griselbrand, Reanimator or combo decks but probably not against American Delver, Canadian Threshold type of decks.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Yeah. It honestly looks like you're so far into Death and Taxes there's really no point in trying to make it a knights deck.
4 Scrubland
3 wasteland
4 marsh flats
1 volrath's stronghold
2 karakas
4 plains
2 swamp
3 mox diamond
1 land tax
4 sinkhole
4 swords to plowshares
4 hymn to tourach
3 mother of runes
4 knight of meadowgrain
4 knight exemplar
4 mirran crusader
4 student of warfare
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 vindicate
2 liliana of the veil
1 spear of heliod
if you dont want to use sinkholes just exchange it for vindicate what cost one more and deal with more stuff. If you dont want to play thalia you have to mess with the oponent manabase anyway with sinkholes. this list might be more fun to play but i still think that thalia + rishadan port is an better and more consistent idea. Also spear of heliod seems awesome since it make your knights bigger and also destroy creatures
Yes, Death and Taxes is pretty good in the meta recently, I see more and more players in my meta playing them recently :nod:. Can't deny that at the moment Knights are not exactly competitive :-/...
Phyrexian Revoker has it usefulness, and it is a good hoser against some strategies (in spite of the always used easily removed creature argument :rolleyes:), with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben they pack a serious combination here :thumbsup:.
But do take note the lesser knights you play, the less effective Knight Exemplar becomes :(.
I added Deck tags to your decklist above ;). I ever played a BW knights list before, utilizing Dark Confidant. I also like using Mox Diamond and Tithe combination in my former list. With so many BB and WW spells the manabase is a nightmare so Mox Diamond and Tithe helps a lot towards it. Personally I felt Sinkhole is pretty redundant here, many legacy decks can play around losing one land easily. And you also have the difficult choice of casting either Hymn to Tourach or Sinkhole during the second turn - Hymn is usually a better choice IMO.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I think it has potential in certain BW lists alongside Dark Confidant for example. It can be a huge risk to run Bob in a list heavy on 3-drops (Knight Exemplar, Mirran, if you're splashing black maybe Haakon, etc) and with very few reliable ways to gain life back - you can run Meadowgrain but they'll likely just remove it, whereas this Fiendslayer evades a lot of the common removal, and the stuff it doesn't evade (white) is generally played in the matchups where your life total means the least. It's unfortunate he's a 3 drop and not a 2-drop, hell they should have made him a 2/1 body and cost 2cc and it would have been a lot more insane, but regardless I think it's not awful in certain decks.
Yup, I felt Sinkhole didn't do much to stop them from casting their spells. With the abundant of 1 and 2 drop spells in Legacy I felt the Sinkhole/ Wasteland package didn't do enough. They could quickly drop a Goyf or Confidant/ Delver which I couldn't deal with and it would be curtains. That's why I would rather run the hand discard or even removal in Sinkhole space.
I still prefer Tithe because I could use it immediately or EOT and get a land drop on the same turn . We pretty much need to use Land Tax only once, and Tithe does almost the same thing.
Yes, I was thinking the same way, Knight of Meadowgrain almost always get removed against tempo deck thus failing to even help us get a single lifelink attack through. Fiendslayer Paladin is able to survive against more removal spells, and in Haakon decks with Dark Confidant he certainly fits into the general scheme of things. Like you mentioned, too bad he is 3cc, although being 2cc might probably made him too powerful, especially since he was designed with the standard format in mind. To be honest, a 2cc Fiendslayer Paladin might not even make the cut into every legacy deck, that's the power level and efficiency of legacy decks :-/.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Creatures:
Knight Exemplar x4
Student x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Paladin en-Vec x2
Thalia x2
Knight of the White Orchid x3
Hero x1 (mother of runes)
Kinsbaile x1 (mother of runes)
Spells:
Brave the Elements x4
PtE x4
StPs x3
*** x1
Artifacts:
Aether Vial x4
Mox Diamond x4 (took 4 plains out)
Plainswalkers:
Elspeth Knight-Errant x2
Lands:
Plains x15 (-4 MD)
Marsh Flats x3
Maze of Ith x1
Cavern of Souls x3
SB:
Leyline of Sactity x2
Engineered Explosives x2 (-1 Silence)
Ethersworn Cannonist x2
Grafdiggers Cage x2
Tormod's Crypt x2 (Rain of Blades x2)
Relic of Progenitus x2
Ensnaring Bridge x2
Silence x2
I'm just getting into playing Legacy and really like this deck. A friend helped me out on the tunning of this deck. Thinking of putting the KoM in here and the only place I can see it going is in the en-Vec slot. Most of the meta that saw were: Storm, Merfolk, UR Delver, Reanimater, and some others I didn't recognize. The en-Vec helped out because of all the Red and Black that was here. I dont have MoR unless my friends aren't playing them. Brave the Elements was a huge factor in getting me to the top 8 and then lost to Storm. Most of the time I took out the Elspeths and I will probably end up taking out the ***. Wrath helped out a couple of times but not as much. Some of the harder matches I had were Storm and Reanimater, UR Delver. I had forgotten about the KoM and I didn't really care for HoBh or KbC they normally got taken out. We had talked bout the Stone Forge in here but I didn't think it really belonged and after reading some of the posts I may end up putting them in here. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
I put it into deck tags for you for easier viewing:
4 Knight Exemplar
3 Student of Warfare
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Paladin en-Vec
2 Thalia
3 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Hero of Bladehold (I presume) (mother of runes)
1 Kinsbaile Cavalier (mother of runes)
Spells 12:
4 Brave the Elements
4 Path to Exile
3 Sword to Plowshares
1 Wrath of God
4 Aether Vial
4 Mox Diamond (took 4 plains out)
Plainswalkers 2:
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
Lands 22:
15 Plains (-4 MD)
3 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Leyline of Sactity
2 Engineered Explosives (-1 Silence)
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Tormod's Crypt (Rain of Blades x2)
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Silence
I think I noticed was the high amount of removals. Do you need to maindeck so many considering we are a creature deck ourself? If flyers are a problem we have Leonin Skyhunter (although admittedly he is not a powerhouse but he could increase the creature count). There's only 20 creatures in the deck and you play Vial too. Seems like too little for threat density in my opinion. That said, you did a very good job to get all the way to top 8, Knights FTW!!!
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
What point does the mox diamond serve? Are you splashing a color?
You have pretty much got the essentials in your decklist, such as Buried Alive and Nameless Inversion to complement Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. There are also enough lands providing both BW in order not to get screwed out of B. I would suggest playing some Cavern of Souls too (countermagic is a big deal in Legacy). Granted you can't use Cavern for black spells but I think the BB required by Haakon is the key here and he is the only spell requiring double black mana (I would come to Phyrexian Arena later).
There are too many 3cc spells in the deck, what with Knight Exemplar, Fiendslayer paladin, Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive. To an extent, I feel both Phyrexian Arena and Buried Alive can serve the same purpose - Card Advantage. So we should play either one but not both as it slows the deck down considerably. If you prefer Arena then you should run Entomb. Otherwise, Buried Alive and Haakon provide massive card advantage/ & fuel but if combined with Arena it makes the deck too clunky. I would drop some Kinsbaile Cavalier to reduce the mana curve too. Stillmoon Cavalier could be a potential replacement too (although it is another 3-drop lol.)
Can't really expect Tribal Knight decks to be competitive, but they are fun to play with !
You can only play creature spells with Aether Vial via your hand.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Yes, the mana curve is still too high, but at least it has improved since the previous list!
You probably don't need to play multiple copies of Batterskull and Sword of Fire and Ice, first of all, if you want to increase your chances of drawing these equipments, that's what Stoneforge Mystic are for. Also, Aether Vial should be a 4-off, because it is the card that you absolutely want to have in your opening hand every game.
3x Kinsbaile Cavalier and 3x Hero of Bladehold is also too high on the creature curve. Personally it would have been too slow in my meta so I would at the very least drop the Hero completely. Btw, Wilt-Leaf Liege is also a good knight you could consider, although it is another 4-drop lolz .
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Thanks! . It's always good to know the primer is useful . Are you currently playing with Silver Knight, Paladin en-Vec or Fiendslayer Paladin?
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Very difficult it seems, the better knights mostly have WW in their casting cost. Even the black knights are BB most of time.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Creatures 21
Student of Warfare x3
Knight Exemplar x4
KotWO x3
Knight of Meadowgrain x3
Mirran Crusader x4
Mother of Runes x2
Leonin Arbiter x2 (not sure on this)
Spells 10
PtE x3
StP x3
Brave the Elements x4
Artifacts 10
Spear of Heliod x2
Aether Vial x4
Mox Diamond x4
Planeswalkers 3
Elspeth, Knight-Errant x2
Ajani, Caller of the Pride x1
Land 16
Marsh Flats x3
Cavern of Souls x3
Plains x10
Side
Rest in Peace x2
Ethersworn Canonist x2
Leyline of Sanctity x2
Pithing Needle x2 (not sure on)
Grafdiggers Cage x2
Thalia x2
Marrow Shards x2
Silence x3
I added deck tags for you .
I see that you are not sure about Leonin Arbiter, personally I would just go all 4x Mother of Runes instead of splitting them in 2, Leonin Arbiter is not a bad card, but it simply doesn't do enough in a Knights deck compared to what it does in Hatebears especially in Modern when it is amazing with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile. Here in legacy no one even plays Ghost Quarter and PtE to begin with. I noticed you have 3 PtE in the decklist, why not just go 4x Swords to Plowshares and 2x PtE combination since you might not have the Arbiter/PtE synergy anymore if you leave Arbiter out.
I also don't think 16 lands is enough, even with Mox Diamond and Aether Vial around. You need to pitch lands to Mox Diamond which would reduce your chances of drawing more lands. If you still wishes to have Mox Diamond and run low on lands, you should play a full set of Knight of the White Orchid, also, 21 creatures for Vial is not an optimal number, if possible, more creatures would be better, there seems to be too many spells and not enough creatures to use Aether Vial effectively.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
The knight I like most in a UW list is Court Hussar, card advantage in knights are almost unheard of so I really like what Court Hussar brought to the table. RTR also brought a few UW knights such as Lyev skyknight which might be useful. I think Phantasmal Image and Mutavault is definitely worth considering but not so much on Adaptive Automation - it is another 3cc which we are trying to cut down on considering so many of the better knights are 3cc, and it does not provide anything else other than an anthem effect.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Hes a knight, a mana dork and a bear with vigilance. He carries equipment incredibly well and can accelerate into a big drop earlier as well as fitting the tribe. At least this is my reasoning as to why he may be runnable in a G/W knights list.
what do you think of him?
Honestly I did thought of playing Steward of Valeron at some stage, I like that he can help us to power out the 4 drops such as Wilt-leaf Liege or Elspeth, Knight-Errant, I'm just not sure if at the later part of the game whether he would be as useful, since mana dorks are of not much use as the game goes along. I think for Knights deck that has an heavier curve can actually relies on Steward and Knight of the White Orchid, while a more weenie knights deck probably would prefer to use those knights with combative or protection skills in Steward position.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W