Changes:
-1 bloodmoon
-1 SFM
-1 tutor
-1 chant
+2 revoker
+2 firestorm
If you guys were working on a more aggro list and could share experiences...
I felt aggro didnt need the moxes the same as original deck,I tried petal to avoid card disadvantage but I wasn't sure about the result.
I recently added Orim's chant and cut the petal because petal was terrible midgame draw and Orim was more or less the same result in a way, petal makes me go faster, Orim slows opponent, and Orim helps a lot storm MU which is great and it's never a dead draw.
Rabblemaster is a really fast clock so I'm really glad about it, Grim is awesome aswell, helping clearing the DRS, Bobs, etc. In addition to all my removals (4 bolt 4 pte) I feel the aggro MU is OK so far, I dont even mention the Fiery confluence helping a lot aswell as a wrath like, with the bonus of versatility, helping finishing opponent in a burn way, can kill PW, wipe boards, destroy 3 artos... crazy card. Molten vortex does help a lot MU match up as a third grim-like I can tutor.
I used to play 4 sfm and +1 sword, I cut them recently to make room, not sure yet.
Has anyone tried Cast Out at all? I am thinking it could do well vs Show and Tell- E tutor in response, and Cast Out cycle to plop in Humility. Obviously at 4cc it is expensive for an Blinding/Oring with Flash that can't be Decayed, but the cycling for W makes it seem attractive.
@ Mugen, I can't really help with an aggro build.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I've considered monastery mentor for the aggro plan. It's about the fastest clock you can get and makes use of other cards already in the deck. I may actually consider abeyance and tithe in the main at that point as well since you don't need the prison elements as much. I would suggest setting up to beat combo as your priority game one and have your board geared to fair magic/grindy games. Firestorm used to be a blowout with the engine and it may still be. I'd also lose a stone forge for its mediocre body. You already have tutors if needed, sfm is just a dedicated one. More revokers is my recommendation.
Boo to cast out. At 4 mana the card needs to be amazing. Paying more for an effect we can do for less already isn't attractive. Cycling certainly isn't putting it over. If counter top could still exist it could be worth replacing a single o ring with it and it may be still worth a single slot depending how the meta goes. But I can't see a reason to play more then one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
I am also pondering- I liked my old "emergency" top for situations when Revoker was annoying the Scroll rack and Scroll had not shown up. I fancy playing with Sylvan Library, but its green and I ant to keep Blood Moon main. I can't think of good reasons to go green as a splash. Anyone? I am not even sure about Sylvan, its just that the card can do a lot of work in some decks.
In reference to above, I would also like to run a "bigger" parfait-in UW, maybe the Miracles/Parfait type hybrid deck that surfaced a while back. I always find that if people know my deck those 1 land land tax hands meet a Force at any cost. Whilst this is great, if I miss a land drop for a couple of turns the DRS running BUG decks are often out of sight. It would be nice to run a version that could Force and Brainstorm itself.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Every time I add green I look like enchantress. Sterling grove is quite solid in the deck after all. As a version of maverick it could be extremely strong as the parfait engine will refill your hand better then anything else available.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
played against manaless dredge, elves(first time with parfait) and grixis delver yesterday..
manaless dredge was a walk in the park..enlightened tutor into rip is just GG 99% of the time..even had a little fun and tutored for a ghostly prison instead of a rip in one game..
elves was surprisingly easy, orim's chant was an all-star here..but against grixis, damn! it was so hard to resolve anything..i'm aware that we have a lotta things that would be hell for them if it hits the table like trinisphere, ghostly prison, etc;.. but man, it was just so difficult to play around their counters..i'm thinking of replacing a wrath effect for a firespout again..my instinct dictates that it'd be easier to resolve at 3cmc(ideally with a chant backup) than our wrath's 4cmc..anyone here had trouble with grixis before?
though i'm not sure how the games would fare postboard since we never sideboarded..i'm guessing timely reinforcements would really help here..am i correct to conclude that pre-board, the match is in their favor? i would say maybe 60/40 or 70/30?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
I did a little practice of this recently and it seemed ok game 1 after I worked out to not tutor for cards that don't effect game state straight away- where as vs D N T I would happily tutor for a L tax or Zuran to get the LT online, I found I did best when I went after runed halo, Ghostly, Humility, B Moon and my experimental card Porphyr Nodes. Setting up Scrack/LT never worked out- it was great if they got drawn. Scroll did a bit, and I Needled DRS a lot. RIP did more work than I expected. I am hoping to put a bit of time into this match soon, a friend is now playing grixis delver, will get to jam with him at some point for a couple of hours.
I have no idea how to board in the match. Perhaps Weapon X may be of help.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Well it's been a while since I've played against grixis and my board has changed a bit since then but I'll have at it. This is one of those matchups where I feel you are trying to tempo a tempo deck in a way. Trinisphere is probably the biggest player here and it will probably be worth shaving a bit if the engine off, which is something I tend to do if I feel I may have to work to hard to have it function. Keep in mind this isn't a remove it as much as it is more of a way to change your focus. Humility is your question mark for sideboarding as a baneslayer will steal the game. Nahiri should be a great option now as it will do a lot for a single slot. In fact let's do it this way:
1 rip
2 timely reinforcements
2 blasts
1 nahiri
1 elspeth
2 cannonist
1 baneslayer
Those are the cards I'd be considering and these are what I may consider cutting:
1 humility
1 land tax
1 scroll rack
1 blood moon
1 solitary confinement
1 opal
1 chant
1 needle
1 wrath
1 ivory tower
I think that also shows an issue with the deck in why I stress knowledge of your deck and the format. Cases can be made for adds and cuts easily, but you need to know why you're making those choices as they may effect how you need to play. The fairly obvious thing to me with those choices to cut is that the focus isn't on the engine as much as it is on our ability to top deck better and just have better cards. Ivory tower for instance can just beat the deck on its own with the time it gives but that gets compounded by how your opponent chooses to play.
So for a TL;DR version protect trinisphere, shave the engine, add dudes, cut narrow cards for more sweeping options.
Hope that is at least somewhat helpful. I'm otherwise gassed from work so if you have more questions fire away.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
played against turbo depths, they have protection against swords, PTE and oblivion ring in the form of NOT OF THIS WORLD and Sejiri Steppe(fetcheable by crop rotation) so watch out for those..chants are also helpful here in that they can stave off an attack..a resolved blood moon is almost GG since they don't have an answer to it in the main, though they have krosan grip and abrupt decay postboard..i consider it a favorable matchup nonetheless..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
I played this recently pre-tournament for a few games, going second it may be in depth's favour but overall parfait wins more.
Runed halo does nowt, but E tutoring to a P needle is strong as a t2 play, obviously B moon g1 is best, but e tutor to P needle happens a turn earlier. Zuran Orb is decent too- getting to 22 life buys a turn. Chant is a real MVP. I never Humilitied, sadly, but that and Solitary gives a lot of ways to urinate on some bonfires. I use karakas x2 and Maze main, so I feel comfortable in the match.
There are a lot of matches I like with Parfait, but a fair few rely on opponents not knowing much about our deck- knowing when to force our LTax or when to play round it etc. Often a hand is risky if the Tax does not resolve. Depths is not one of those decks, they can only hit with handkill, and Tutoring is so good at beating that.
do you guys side out your chants against bug or do we leave them in? my take would be to side out a copy or two to make room for REB and/or pyro, they can kill/counter stryx, leovold, snapcaster and sometimes even jace; it also gives us a way to fight their counterspells..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
I honestly just love chant. I feel it's so underrated. That said I have cut copies as it's an amazing bait spell and can respond to a lot for some value.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
I always take out one more than I should, always regret it. I am happy to shave one, but often two and I always regret it. I certainly don't run Pyroblast though, and would not be looking to do that to deal with those dudes. Get a Humility down and those dudes do little to nothing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
finally played against maverick, i would say that the best move they have against us is having a gadock teeg in play backed up by a mother of runes..but other than that, i think the match is very well in our favor..many list i've been seeing lately don't even run any spot discard or abrupt decay in the main..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
We already pack pithing needle and a host of answers main. Teeg is an issue for how to win game one, but game two we can get more answers and just ignore it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
The only times I have had an issue with Teeg is Nic Fit, and only because I stupidly boarded out Karakas and he could recur both it and Rec Sage.
Most decent Maverick decks run 2-3 artifact/enchantment removal main, but more recent ones skimp, and hand detruction seems to be more in the board, which for me is wrong- if you are going to play Maverick without handkill/decay then why not play D N T? Mom should be no issue- Karakas the Teeg and then lay Humility, needle Mom as above and remove Teeg, run a Nodes, Scroll Teeg/Mom etc. Lots of options....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Well for me I am not a fan of it being described as being "good", but in some metas its fine as a one of in the 75. Its decent and tutorable vs hatebear spectrum decks and midrange- you can you run cards like Ghostly Prison/Moat/Chant to slow them and let it go to town over a period of turns, often giving opponents headaches- some try and flood the board, others sandbag their dudes. It can slip down early vs. Thalia when an O ring may not. Sometimes you can drop it early against a DRS deck and they let the DRS go and don't lay a second dude, and it can munch a big dude vs S and T decks putting in a monster- although O ring could do the same. The main issue is it takes up a slot and is slow, but for critter heavy metas I think its playable if you run Ghostlies and Chants and the usual stuff. It is no wrath, but can sometimes be really good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I don't like porphyry nodes because it can be played around a little and doesn't necessarily get the creature you need to get. Like most things there could be a place for it but for me any slot it may fill for me right now already has a better option in its stead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
Not a million miles from my viewpoint then. I have run it in the board more than main, and often never. But sometimes it is good.
In some other news, a new card - Solemnity- makes some cards with Cumulative Upkeep (hello Glacial Chasm, Energy Storm IIRC) great and hoses Jitte, Chalice, Vial and Poison. Also Phyrexian Unlife + Solemnity or Solemnity plus a load of other janky cards- enter Force Bubble et al. give some great combos for not dying- although we are hardly short of them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
It could form the basis of a deck with multiple copies and Depths, plus some of the cumulative upkeep cards like Glacial Chasm. Whether anyone can graft that onto a Parfait shell is another matter- but W offers search for Solemnity, Green offers Crop Rotation. There is a potential for Chasm to interact well with triggering land tax. It obviously takes things away from RIP helm.
It sounds more like a GW Lands deck to me, but you never know.....
As a one of in the board for a conventional Parfait deck- maybe. I don't know.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Changes:
-1 bloodmoon
-1 SFM
-1 tutor
-1 chant
+2 revoker
+2 firestorm
If you guys were working on a more aggro list and could share experiences...
I felt aggro didnt need the moxes the same as original deck,I tried petal to avoid card disadvantage but I wasn't sure about the result.
I recently added Orim's chant and cut the petal because petal was terrible midgame draw and Orim was more or less the same result in a way, petal makes me go faster, Orim slows opponent, and Orim helps a lot storm MU which is great and it's never a dead draw.
Rabblemaster is a really fast clock so I'm really glad about it, Grim is awesome aswell, helping clearing the DRS, Bobs, etc. In addition to all my removals (4 bolt 4 pte) I feel the aggro MU is OK so far, I dont even mention the Fiery confluence helping a lot aswell as a wrath like, with the bonus of versatility, helping finishing opponent in a burn way, can kill PW, wipe boards, destroy 3 artos... crazy card. Molten vortex does help a lot MU match up as a third grim-like I can tutor.
I used to play 4 sfm and +1 sword, I cut them recently to make room, not sure yet.
I tried firestorm felt awesome but I recently understood a bit more the card with the special rulling it has and I had to cut it, I felt it couldnt work in the end... http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/312973-firestorm
I'm hesitating between a more aggro road (+1 sfm, +1 rabblemaster...) or a more burn road (boros charm, chain lightning...)
Thx for reading, thx for sharing guys
Cya
Mugen-
@ Mugen, I can't really help with an aggro build.
Boo to cast out. At 4 mana the card needs to be amazing. Paying more for an effect we can do for less already isn't attractive. Cycling certainly isn't putting it over. If counter top could still exist it could be worth replacing a single o ring with it and it may be still worth a single slot depending how the meta goes. But I can't see a reason to play more then one.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Changes:
-1 bloodmoon
-1 SFM
-1 tutor
-1 chant
+2 revoker
+2 firestorm
I am also pondering- I liked my old "emergency" top for situations when Revoker was annoying the Scroll rack and Scroll had not shown up. I fancy playing with Sylvan Library, but its green and I ant to keep Blood Moon main. I can't think of good reasons to go green as a splash. Anyone? I am not even sure about Sylvan, its just that the card can do a lot of work in some decks.
In reference to above, I would also like to run a "bigger" parfait-in UW, maybe the Miracles/Parfait type hybrid deck that surfaced a while back. I always find that if people know my deck those 1 land land tax hands meet a Force at any cost. Whilst this is great, if I miss a land drop for a couple of turns the DRS running BUG decks are often out of sight. It would be nice to run a version that could Force and Brainstorm itself.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
manaless dredge was a walk in the park..enlightened tutor into rip is just GG 99% of the time..even had a little fun and tutored for a ghostly prison instead of a rip in one game..
elves was surprisingly easy, orim's chant was an all-star here..but against grixis, damn! it was so hard to resolve anything..i'm aware that we have a lotta things that would be hell for them if it hits the table like trinisphere, ghostly prison, etc;.. but man, it was just so difficult to play around their counters..i'm thinking of replacing a wrath effect for a firespout again..my instinct dictates that it'd be easier to resolve at 3cmc(ideally with a chant backup) than our wrath's 4cmc..anyone here had trouble with grixis before?
though i'm not sure how the games would fare postboard since we never sideboarded..i'm guessing timely reinforcements would really help here..am i correct to conclude that pre-board, the match is in their favor? i would say maybe 60/40 or 70/30?
—Seal inscription
I have no idea how to board in the match. Perhaps Weapon X may be of help.
—Seal inscription
1 rip
2 timely reinforcements
2 blasts
1 nahiri
1 elspeth
2 cannonist
1 baneslayer
Those are the cards I'd be considering and these are what I may consider cutting:
1 humility
1 land tax
1 scroll rack
1 blood moon
1 solitary confinement
1 opal
1 chant
1 needle
1 wrath
1 ivory tower
I think that also shows an issue with the deck in why I stress knowledge of your deck and the format. Cases can be made for adds and cuts easily, but you need to know why you're making those choices as they may effect how you need to play. The fairly obvious thing to me with those choices to cut is that the focus isn't on the engine as much as it is on our ability to top deck better and just have better cards. Ivory tower for instance can just beat the deck on its own with the time it gives but that gets compounded by how your opponent chooses to play.
So for a TL;DR version protect trinisphere, shave the engine, add dudes, cut narrow cards for more sweeping options.
Hope that is at least somewhat helpful. I'm otherwise gassed from work so if you have more questions fire away.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
—Seal inscription
Runed halo does nowt, but E tutoring to a P needle is strong as a t2 play, obviously B moon g1 is best, but e tutor to P needle happens a turn earlier. Zuran Orb is decent too- getting to 22 life buys a turn. Chant is a real MVP. I never Humilitied, sadly, but that and Solitary gives a lot of ways to urinate on some bonfires. I use karakas x2 and Maze main, so I feel comfortable in the match.
There are a lot of matches I like with Parfait, but a fair few rely on opponents not knowing much about our deck- knowing when to force our LTax or when to play round it etc. Often a hand is risky if the Tax does not resolve. Depths is not one of those decks, they can only hit with handkill, and Tutoring is so good at beating that.
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Most decent Maverick decks run 2-3 artifact/enchantment removal main, but more recent ones skimp, and hand detruction seems to be more in the board, which for me is wrong- if you are going to play Maverick without handkill/decay then why not play D N T? Mom should be no issue- Karakas the Teeg and then lay Humility, needle Mom as above and remove Teeg, run a Nodes, Scroll Teeg/Mom etc. Lots of options....
or abzan for that matter..i haven't piloted maverick before but if i were to run it, i want to have some copies of thotseizes/IOKs/decays main..
—Seal inscription
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
In some other news, a new card - Solemnity- makes some cards with Cumulative Upkeep (hello Glacial Chasm, Energy Storm IIRC) great and hoses Jitte, Chalice, Vial and Poison. Also Phyrexian Unlife + Solemnity or Solemnity plus a load of other janky cards- enter Force Bubble et al. give some great combos for not dying- although we are hardly short of them.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/hour-of-devastation/28946-solemnity
—Seal inscription
It sounds more like a GW Lands deck to me, but you never know.....
As a one of in the board for a conventional Parfait deck- maybe. I don't know.