No, but ironically I have added a single Geddon main deck, I think it is great vs Nic Fit as well as Miracles, Enchantress and others in my meta. Even RUG decks run but a few real lands.
After all Ghostly Prison plus 'geddon .
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4 Leyline of sanctity (storm, high tide, discard heavy eg pox, burn, manaless dredge, painter, certain delvers and RIP helm decks) 1 aethersworn canonist (infect, storm, omniscience, encantress, elves, basically all combo decks with fast starts and cantrips) 1 spirit of the labyrinth (most draw heavy decks inc enchantress and brainstorm/ponder decks, elves) 1 karmic jusctice (nic fit, jund, some BG-x ) 2 krosan grip (miracles, painter, maybe d n t) 1 choke (most island heavy decks inc RUG Delver, Merfolk, Miracles etc.) 1 peacekeeper (Infect, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, lands, MUD combos) 1 sphere of law (R/U delver, burn) 1 lumincarch ascension (miracles, d n t if 1-0 down, similar prison decks, Pox, Storm) 1 Pithing Needle painter, Miracles, Grisselbrand decks, PW heavy decks etc.) 1 flex slot- Choke (Reanimator, Miracles, Merfolk, Delver etc.), Mangara (grindy matches, any matches with lots of key permanents and little removal), Phyrexian Unlife (storm decks, burn), Peacekeeper (Infect)
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
just some things i would like to hear about from you:
with 3 scrolls, isn't the top a bit redundant? how has it fared for you? i want to know because i'm considering it too, though my instincts dictate otherwise..
the absence of PtE's in parfait is a bit extraneous to me but what i find more amiss is the singleton swords to plowshares, isn't it a bit too random? would love to hear your thought process in its inclusion as a singleton..
i personally find 2 copies of RiP the sweet spot, isn't running the full 4 a bit overkill? i know its part of our main wincon but its also dead against
eldrazi, death and taxes, etc..
thanks again..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
just some things i would like to hear about from you:
with 3 scrolls, isn't the top a bit redundant? how has it fared for you? i want to know because i'm considering it too, though my instincts dictate otherwise..
the absence of PtE's in parfait is a bit extraneous to me but what i find more amiss is the singleton swords to plowshares, isn't it a bit too random? would love to hear your thought process in its inclusion as a singleton..
i personally find 2 copies of RiP the sweet spot, isn't running the full 4 a bit overkill? i know its part of our main wincon but its also dead against
eldrazi, death and taxes, etc..
thanks again..
The Top survives the Pernicious Deed blowout, common in these parts. It adds to the number of hands I would take, making mulligans less likely. I don't want to lose to taking a Land Tax hand that is vulnerable to Abrupt Decay blowout, so I look for hands that are smoother , the Top smooths it out, it allows manipulation when Abrupt Decays are flying about like nobody's business. Nothing more than that. I get the Scroll Rack Needle/Revoked and countered a lot by those that know the deck. It often squeezes past whereas the Scroll Rack is more likely to be countered. With every search you see 3 cards, so it has been worth its place, at least as a one of. It is not sacrosanct.
RIP was at 3, but I have a local meta with both a higher than normal percentage of manaless dredge, reanimator and BG-X Goyf (eg shardless) /Nic Fit bin manipulation decks in, 3 was my sweet spot, but the meta said 4 There are D N T type decks, but we tend to beat them anyway- Humility rules, scroll too. Nobody in my meta or the one 50 miles down the road plays Eldrazi.
The swords was pretty simple- I had 3 and it was always the worst performing card in the deck. I would always rather it was an O ring or Unexpectedly, there are few delver decks here, the match where it was most needed. Maverick and D N T were the decks where I wanted its effect, and they were the ones with Mother. Humility is probably the best anti critter card.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Fairly new to this format and trying to break in. Only played Fish, and friend's Food Chain decks before hand. Could you take a look at my list and let me know what you think.
-Right off the bat I know Myth Realized is weird, but I'd like to test it. Might be cut anyway.
-Feels like I have too many non-basics, but I also feel I need the utility.
-Side board is I-don't-know because I have not set my Main yet, and I'm still feeling out my local meta.
Planar Birth? I don't see what you are trying to do with it here?
I like non basics because they reduce mulligans, and reduce vulnerability to balls out players who destroy Mox Diamonds. That said I think 4 mox diamonds is better-always. That said Mistveil and RIP is a nonbo, and Mistveil is not good in the deck. If you run Plateau then consider Blood Moon. I am struggling with Blind Obedience, it only really does lots against a narrow range of Sneak Attack decks, and without a Storage Matrix and a bunch of Ghostlies is unimpressive. Leylines in the board are a 4 of for my money.
Scroll (cursed) is an essential for my money too- its really good...........lots of practice will be needed either way...........
I like basics because they blank cards common to the format and utilize land tax. They have no bearing on mulligan decisions. That said I don't understand some of your highlander choices; planar birth being the most glaring one.
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Sorry, but the idea of the number of lands you include has no bearing on mulligan decisions is nonsense, which was my point about running "extra" non basics over the basic count of 14/15. Of course the number of lands you run has a direct effect on the number of mulligans in most decks. If you want to play 19/20 basics 4 mox to blank Wastelands then fine, but most lists (including yours Weapon X IIRC?) seem to run 14-15 basics and 4 Moxen, a number which produces more mulligans than mine. In short, 15 basics, 4 Moxen produces too many mulligans for my personal liking- I may be more risk averse than other players of course. The deck needs 17/18/19 lands 4 mox, regardless of basic count (17 still mulligans too often for my liking, but its better). I would rather run a small number of non basics on top of the basic count to top it up and get utility, but either way 14-15 basics is not enough, and in that respect I agree with BootDragon's post, even if I don't get the Planar Birth, Mistveil and some board options.....
I see, then I apologise for the confusion, I thought my meaning was clear- I should have said "extra non basics", rather than non basics, or some such to make myself clearer.
EDIT
18/3/1- is that the red splash version? How many artifacts for Mox Opal? Ever tied Chrome Mox? I have thought about another Mox.
That is my stock list with the blood moon main. There are 14 artifacts in the deck. I had tried Chrome, but I care about cards, especially when there are some bomb singletons. You do not want to exile the wrong one and there will be instances when you are forced to.
The opal was a concession to my land count and generally how the deck played out. The card disadvantage can hurt a lot with diamond when you want to rack for example. Opal gave me an option to have a neutral advantage mox that takes advantage of a lot of the cards I am already playing. Also key was the colour fixing it provides which becomes very relevant with the sideboard.
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Alright, modifying.
Planar Birth is/was for I find myself sacing my own lands often when Z-Orb hits play. It was just a way to recoup if needed, but I admit even in my limited testing the situation hasn't come up where I would just use something else instead of Birthing.
Mana Rocks: Probably 3 Diamond, 1 Opal, A la WeaponX's preference.
Cut Curse Scroll from my original list solely because I seem to be terrible with it. Are there suggesting on how to swing better with it?
You only ever need 1 zuran orb. Ivory tower will just passively gain life at no cost, and because we can stack it how we want, a lot with active land taxes. As for your lands, if you need to play one it should be outpost. A guy can stall and win games plus add mana.
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In terms of Zuran sacrifice and getting the land back, (a) you run RIP, and that is a nonbo plus (b) you should only sac to zuran to keep LT active unless you are actually dying. Often the threat of the Zuran sac makes opponents lay their land anyway and not keep it in hand. Obviously sometimes you do sac for life, you just have to win or stabilise before you sac the whole lot rather than reanimating it to sac again.
If you run nonbasics Zuran gets marginally more use because they get Wasted, and often thus sac'ed to Zuran, so I often gain 2-6 life a match from cards they kill with Wasteland - people do waste my Maze and always the Outposts under Humility. If you don't then Ivory Tower might be better, I guess its list dependent and style dependent.
Scroll is not really difficult to use with a little practice - every now and then I activate it with two different cards in hand, normally one in greater number - often plains. Mainly I activate it with a bunch of plains in hand, before proceeding to turn said plains into real cards. It is super good against delver and shardless type decks, kills most of their threats. It can't kill Goyf without RIP, but RIP deals with goyf alone, which is why I went to 4, as one of my metas is BG-X infested. Really you pay mana, point at whatever you need to, name the card in hand, try to bluff the opponent into thinking they are real cards even if they are not- and damage is dealt. Remember to redirect to PWs if necessary. Its not always an early doors card despite costing 1.
I don't know about outpost etc. If you run Blood Moon a good argument is to run just basics as Weapon X said. Outpost especially is good with Humility, which I run 2 of, and bad with Moon. Sacrificing plains works well with the whole Land Tax thing, no problem there. Maze is probably better in your list over the two. With Charbelcher I would be tempted to go all basics, a pair of blood moon. My meta has had some Maverick/Nic Fit Teeg infestations at times, alongside some Grishoalbrand decks so I use Karakas first and foremost as I like casting things that cost 4 and don't like Legendary fatties beating my head. So its all about what you expect to play.
@weapon X - that opal is attractive to me too, I shall look at one myself. Not sure I have enough artifacts, but I will look at it.
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The way to look at opal is as a late game mox. You will have the artifacts in rack, diamond, and zorb by then and the lands are better used finding real cards. Also I find with the card choices I've made it aids in side boarding.
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Could 4 Mox D and 1 Opal be a way forward, or 3:1? I will have a play and see, but it is a possibility I have overlooked. Interestingly, I board out Karakas a fair chunk of the time. At one point I had a forest in the board, but in the end transferred it main.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
i'm also looking at wildfield borderpost, it has some synergy with mox diamond, can sometimes enable land tax if the opponent stubbornly won't play lands....what are your thoughts on it?
The borderposts make more sense as a mox replacement. Colour splash is where the issue will be. For me I need double black for my leyline sometimes so I require the moxen as they add any colour. So short answer, if your borderpost is on colour, do it up.
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I find Zuran Orb is good against people who won't play lands, for obvious reasons. My Kjeldoran outpost is quite useful in that the land you sac can be tapped, thus the outpost acts as a single w mini-ritual almost (i.e. adding an extra available mana on the turn its played without increasing my land count) as well as a potential token maker, its main use.
@weapon x- Leyline of the Void? Is that a meta call?
RE Opals
I have acquired an extra Mox Opal today, by coincidence one came my way, so I will have the option.
After all Ghostly Prison plus 'geddon .
—Seal inscription
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
1 sensei's divining top
4 orim's chant
1 pithing needle
1 cursed scroll
1 swords to plowshares
3 scroll rack
4 rest in peace
1 runed halo
2 unexpectedly absent
2 ghostly prison
1 solitary confinement
1 oblivion ring
1 armageddon (could theoretically be cataclysm, I guess in response to the suggestions above
2 helm of obedience
1 maze of ith
2 kjeldoran outpost
13 plains
1 forest
2 karakas (Teeg is a sod!)
4 mox diamond
4 Leyline of sanctity (storm, high tide, discard heavy eg pox, burn, manaless dredge, painter, certain delvers and RIP helm decks)
1 aethersworn canonist (infect, storm, omniscience, encantress, elves, basically all combo decks with fast starts and cantrips)
1 spirit of the labyrinth (most draw heavy decks inc enchantress and brainstorm/ponder decks, elves)
1 karmic jusctice (nic fit, jund, some BG-x )
2 krosan grip (miracles, painter, maybe d n t)
1 choke (most island heavy decks inc RUG Delver, Merfolk, Miracles etc.)
1 peacekeeper (Infect, Merfolk, Sneak and Show, lands, MUD combos)
1 sphere of law (R/U delver, burn)
1 lumincarch ascension (miracles, d n t if 1-0 down, similar prison decks, Pox, Storm)
1 Pithing Needle painter, Miracles, Grisselbrand decks, PW heavy decks etc.)
1 flex slot- Choke (Reanimator, Miracles, Merfolk, Delver etc.), Mangara (grindy matches, any matches with lots of key permanents and little removal), Phyrexian Unlife (storm decks, burn), Peacekeeper (Infect)
just some things i would like to hear about from you:
with 3 scrolls, isn't the top a bit redundant? how has it fared for you? i want to know because i'm considering it too, though my instincts dictate otherwise..
the absence of PtE's in parfait is a bit extraneous to me but what i find more amiss is the singleton swords to plowshares, isn't it a bit too random? would love to hear your thought process in its inclusion as a singleton..
i personally find 2 copies of RiP the sweet spot, isn't running the full 4 a bit overkill? i know its part of our main wincon but its also dead against
eldrazi, death and taxes, etc..
thanks again..
—Seal inscription
The Top survives the Pernicious Deed blowout, common in these parts. It adds to the number of hands I would take, making mulligans less likely. I don't want to lose to taking a Land Tax hand that is vulnerable to Abrupt Decay blowout, so I look for hands that are smoother , the Top smooths it out, it allows manipulation when Abrupt Decays are flying about like nobody's business. Nothing more than that. I get the Scroll Rack Needle/Revoked and countered a lot by those that know the deck. It often squeezes past whereas the Scroll Rack is more likely to be countered. With every search you see 3 cards, so it has been worth its place, at least as a one of. It is not sacrosanct.
RIP was at 3, but I have a local meta with both a higher than normal percentage of manaless dredge, reanimator and BG-X Goyf (eg shardless) /Nic Fit bin manipulation decks in, 3 was my sweet spot, but the meta said 4 There are D N T type decks, but we tend to beat them anyway- Humility rules, scroll too. Nobody in my meta or the one 50 miles down the road plays Eldrazi.
The swords was pretty simple- I had 3 and it was always the worst performing card in the deck. I would always rather it was an O ring or Unexpectedly, there are few delver decks here, the match where it was most needed. Maverick and D N T were the decks where I wanted its effect, and they were the ones with Mother. Humility is probably the best anti critter card.
Fairly new to this format and trying to break in. Only played Fish, and friend's Food Chain decks before hand. Could you take a look at my list and let me know what you think.
-Right off the bat I know Myth Realized is weird, but I'd like to test it. Might be cut anyway.
-Feels like I have too many non-basics, but I also feel I need the utility.
-Side board is I-don't-know because I have not set my Main yet, and I'm still feeling out my local meta.
1 Ivory Tower / 2nd Zuran Orb
1 Sensei's divining top
3 Scroll Rack
4 Land Tax
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Rest in Peace
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Blind Obedience
4 Orim’s Chant
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
1 Planar Rebirth
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Humility
1 Cataclysm
1 Wrath of God
1 Myth Realized
3 Mox Diamond
14 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Maze of Ith / 2nd Kjeldoran Outpost
WIP, this is my current)
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Assemble the Legion (?!)
2 Pyroblast (?!)
3 Spare
Advice is welcome.
I like non basics because they reduce mulligans, and reduce vulnerability to balls out players who destroy Mox Diamonds. That said I think 4 mox diamonds is better-always. That said Mistveil and RIP is a nonbo, and Mistveil is not good in the deck. If you run Plateau then consider Blood Moon. I am struggling with Blind Obedience, it only really does lots against a narrow range of Sneak Attack decks, and without a Storage Matrix and a bunch of Ghostlies is unimpressive. Leylines in the board are a 4 of for my money.
Scroll (cursed) is an essential for my money too- its really good...........lots of practice will be needed either way...........
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I was referring to that. There is no mention of quantity.
I run 18 land and 3 mox diamond 1 mox opal.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
EDIT
18/3/1- is that the red splash version? How many artifacts for Mox Opal? Ever tied Chrome Mox? I have thought about another Mox.
The opal was a concession to my land count and generally how the deck played out. The card disadvantage can hurt a lot with diamond when you want to rack for example. Opal gave me an option to have a neutral advantage mox that takes advantage of a lot of the cards I am already playing. Also key was the colour fixing it provides which becomes very relevant with the sideboard.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Planar Birth is/was for I find myself sacing my own lands often when Z-Orb hits play. It was just a way to recoup if needed, but I admit even in my limited testing the situation hasn't come up where I would just use something else instead of Birthing.
-1 Planar Birth
-1 Mistveil
Blind Obedience -> SB
+1 Mana Rock
+1 Bloodmoon Main
+1 Curse Scroll
Ivory Tower or 2nd Zuran Orb?
Maze of Ith or 2nd Kjeldoran Outpost?
Mana Rocks: Probably 3 Diamond, 1 Opal, A la WeaponX's preference.
Cut Curse Scroll from my original list solely because I seem to be terrible with it. Are there suggesting on how to swing better with it?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
If you run nonbasics Zuran gets marginally more use because they get Wasted, and often thus sac'ed to Zuran, so I often gain 2-6 life a match from cards they kill with Wasteland - people do waste my Maze and always the Outposts under Humility. If you don't then Ivory Tower might be better, I guess its list dependent and style dependent.
Scroll is not really difficult to use with a little practice - every now and then I activate it with two different cards in hand, normally one in greater number - often plains. Mainly I activate it with a bunch of plains in hand, before proceeding to turn said plains into real cards. It is super good against delver and shardless type decks, kills most of their threats. It can't kill Goyf without RIP, but RIP deals with goyf alone, which is why I went to 4, as one of my metas is BG-X infested. Really you pay mana, point at whatever you need to, name the card in hand, try to bluff the opponent into thinking they are real cards even if they are not- and damage is dealt. Remember to redirect to PWs if necessary. Its not always an early doors card despite costing 1.
I don't know about outpost etc. If you run Blood Moon a good argument is to run just basics as Weapon X said. Outpost especially is good with Humility, which I run 2 of, and bad with Moon. Sacrificing plains works well with the whole Land Tax thing, no problem there. Maze is probably better in your list over the two. With Charbelcher I would be tempted to go all basics, a pair of blood moon. My meta has had some Maverick/Nic Fit Teeg infestations at times, alongside some Grishoalbrand decks so I use Karakas first and foremost as I like casting things that cost 4 and don't like Legendary fatties beating my head. So its all about what you expect to play.
@weapon X - that opal is attractive to me too, I shall look at one myself. Not sure I have enough artifacts, but I will look at it.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
is Pearl Medallion worth a slot in the deck, perhaps as a singleton?
i'm currently running a singleton pariah in lieu of the confinement..if testing deems it lackluster, i might revert back to solitary confinement..
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
i'm also looking at wildfield borderpost, it has some synergy with mox diamond, can sometimes enable land tax if the opponent stubbornly won't play lands....what are your thoughts on it?
—Seal inscription
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/scroll-rack-kaladesh-inventions/
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
@weapon x- Leyline of the Void? Is that a meta call?
RE Opals
I have acquired an extra Mox Opal today, by coincidence one came my way, so I will have the option.